Topic for #homecmos is now Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
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<nmz787> azonenberg: Low cost UV laser direct write photolithography
<nmz787> system for rapid prototyping of microsystems
<azonenberg> Nice
<Sync_> that's neat
<azonenberg> I want to build one
<Sync_> just lugged my mill in the cellar
<azonenberg> something like that has been on my TODO for a while
<azonenberg> just been too busy
<Sync_> I hopy my back does not kill me tomorrow
<azonenberg> i think if/when i build one i'll add machine vision software to the camera
<azonenberg> so it can automatically align the new pattern to existing alignment marks
<Sync_> should be easy enough to do with opencv
<azonenberg> Yeah
<azonenberg> Because if i could solve the litho problem
<azonenberg> and get a vacuum chamber for metal deposition
<azonenberg> then MEMS are well within reach
<azonenberg> CMOS will be a lot harder due to contamination concerns
<azonenberg> but a little K- ions won't hurt a comb drive :p
<Sync_> aaah ok, my back is already killing me
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<berndj> azonenberg, is contamination an issue regardless of feature size, or does it become less critical if you ran a 100µm process?
<Sync_> contamination is not an issue of feature size
<Sync_> particle contamination is
<Sync_> but metal ions always get you
<azonenberg> berndj: Metal ion contamination will kill transistors no matter how big they are
<azonenberg> But particles less than, say, half your feature size
<azonenberg> aren't that big a deal
<berndj> but i assume it's at least a matter of ion concentration, and not absolute number?
<azonenberg> I believe so, yes
<berndj> i see. so reagent purity is directly the relevant factor?
<azonenberg> Yes
<azonenberg> As well as cleanliness of glassware etc
<azonenberg> But for MEMS you dont care about electrical performance nearly as much
<azonenberg> since the Si is just a mechanical substrate
<berndj> use giant glassware to take advantage of scaling factors :)
<azonenberg> Which is why i think they're a better starter project
<berndj> why do you suppose MEMS came only much later in the history of the tech?
<azonenberg> That i'm not sure
<berndj> my first instinct would be to assume that it's in some sense "harder" than ICs (i'm assuming you're using "CMOS" loosely here, and that NMOS would have the same sensitivity)
<berndj> maybe it just didn't seem that interesting earlier than it became mainstream?
<azonenberg> Yes, although i hear BJTs are slightly less sensitive
<azonenberg> i dont understand the physics to that extent
<berndj> i don't recall jeri ellsworth using crazy-level purity reagents?
<berndj> i think she used conductive epoxy to make contacts and even gates. very ghetto-style!
<azonenberg> Yes, and thats why i filed this under the "to learn" level
<azonenberg> From what i understand metal contamination at room temp isnt as big a deal
<azonenberg> the big concern is keeping things clean before you do diffusion