<azonenberg> In any case I now have something like 60 dies in my sample tray in varying stages of processing lol
<azonenberg> I expect to hit at least 100 before getting good yields
<azonenberg_lab> So, lets see... first thing on the todo list
<azonenberg_lab> Make finer probe tips
<azonenberg_lab> Grr... getting really sharp points is hard
<azonenberg_lab> I'm close, i can feel it
<azonenberg_lab> But i'm having trouble going submicron
<Harold_parker> :|
<Harold_parker> crosses fingers
<azonenberg_lab> woot
<azonenberg_lab> this is a new record, i cant tell how sharp ye
<azonenberg_lab> yet*
<azonenberg_lab> gonna need the sem lol
<azonenberg_lab> optical images coming up in a sec
<azonenberg_lab> Its too small to see under my scope lol
<azonenberg_lab> the tip just fades out
<Harold_parker> :D
<Harold_parker> hahahaha
<Harold_parker> too small without SEM
<Harold_parker> thats a good sign :D
<Harold_parker> you doing electrolysis or arcing?
<azonenberg> Electrolysis
<azonenberg> And i think this one is barely submicron
<azonenberg> i *think* i can see the tip in the camera
<azonenberg> Which would put it around maybe 800nm?
<azonenberg> The tip looks to be around 1.05um diameter
<azonenberg> i cant see the very end
<azonenberg> curvature radius is probably around 500-700nm
<wolfspraul> azonenberg_lab: hey just a heads up I showed your "Intel 4004 replica" project to 2 guys from Intel Labs yesterday
<wolfspraul> I told them they should find someone inside Intel to support it :-) (nothing will come out of this I'm sure, but they liked it and took lots of notes...)
<azonenberg_lab> wolfspraul: Lol, nice
<Harold_parker> fuckk azonenberg that is beautiful!!!!!!
<azonenberg_lab> Harold_parker: ty :)
<Harold_parker> fuckin eh man :D
<Harold_parker> how many runs did it take to get that beauty?
<azonenberg_lab> A couple, maybe ten
<azonenberg_lab> All were <5um
<azonenberg_lab> this is the sharpest i've gotten yet
<Harold_parker> niiice!
<azonenberg_lab> The next step is a digitally controlled power supply
<azonenberg_lab> to automatically cut off power right when it detects the maximum sharpness right after the end breaks off
<Harold_parker> hmmm, not quite sure i follow?
<Harold_parker> in case of an accident?
<azonenberg_lab> No
<azonenberg_lab> The etching is fastest right at the surface
<Harold_parker> ahhhhhhhhhh
<Harold_parker> rght
<azonenberg_lab> and there's a thicker part below that
<Harold_parker> got it
<azonenberg_lab> So right when it snaps you're at max sharpness
<azonenberg_lab> But if you etch any further it dulls
<Harold_parker> got it
<Harold_parker> and then it blunts
<Harold_parker> right
<Harold_parker> nice :)
<azonenberg_lab> I've seen papers that did cutoff in 500ns
<Harold_parker> man awesome
<azonenberg_lab> and hit 3.5nm points
<Harold_parker> hahahahaha
<Harold_parker> :D
<Harold_parker> omfg
<Harold_parker> thats awesome
<azonenberg_lab> I dont want that sharp lol
<azonenberg_lab> I want maybe 200nm
<Harold_parker> lol indeed
<Harold_parker> yeh
<azonenberg_lab> But i also want to be able to dial in "give me a point of this size"
<azonenberg_lab> and it'll calculate how long to post-etch to do that
<Harold_parker> oooooh
<Harold_parker> nice!
<Harold_parker> thats a sweet idea there man
<Harold_parker> very very sweet!
<berndj> that pic looks almost like some X-15 zipping through the stratosphere
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: You're not the first to make that comment
<azonenberg_lab> But its just a little small ;)
<berndj> does it matter if your probe is "wobbly"? i don't expect that sort of aspect ratio to give you a very stiff probe
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: Aspect ratio is somewhat variably by controlling etch rate
<azonenberg_lab> And usually it doesnt matter
<azonenberg_lab> You dont push down too hard
<ziper> yo
<azonenberg_lab> hi ziper
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: You just gently push it down until it makes contact
<azonenberg_lab> If you have coarse micropositioners like i do (designed for hitting bond pads, test points, and other >=5um targets) its a little tricky lol
<azonenberg_lab> Go down just a hair too far and the point bends :p
<azonenberg_lab> Which is why i want to make duller points for those things
<azonenberg_lab> The only reason i'd use such a sharp one is for an STM or similar non-contact application
<azonenberg_lab> So... let's see, its 23:20 here
<azonenberg_lab> But i have a couple more experiments to run before bedtime lol
<ziper> azonenberg_lab, what are practical applications of this?
<azonenberg_lab> ziper: making probes?
<azonenberg_lab> Cheaper than buying commercial ones
<ziper> no, the whole process
<azonenberg_lab> Fun? Educational?
<azonenberg_lab> Because you can
<ziper> well, I like electronics because I can make stuff that would be very very expensive otherwise
<azonenberg_lab> Eventually i hope to get it to the point that any high school chemistry lab could have "build a MEMS accelerometer" as a project
<azonenberg_lab> CMOS is on the wishlist but will be a little harder to pull off
<azonenberg_lab> Rough roadmap, comb drive by end of summer
<berndj> http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/pr.htm > Projects completed in recent years > Solid State Physics > Construction of a scanning tunneling microscope
<azonenberg_lab> basic logic gates by middle of next year
<berndj> it must've happened around 1998 or so
<azonenberg_lab> and a working 7400 or 4000 series chip by end of 2012
<berndj> the one prof told us that they spent a whole lot of effort going high-tech on making the tip
<berndj> in the end they got their best tips from just breaking a piece of wire
<berndj> i can't find any better documentation on that project though
<ziper> azonenberg_lab, how mcuh did it cost for you to get this far?
<azonenberg_lab> After that, the next step will be to expand - stacked die MEMS+control circuit perhaps
<azonenberg_lab> Or go all-out on the IC front and make a 1:1 scale 4004
<azonenberg_lab> ziper: Personally i've spent maybe 4-5k on the entire lab (rough guess) but its hard to say
<azonenberg_lab> Most of the equipment was used
<ziper> thats a lot
<azonenberg_lab> And a company i was doing consulting work for funded a lot of the general test equipment so i could make prototypes
<berndj> btw are you concerned at all about accidentally walking into any patent traps?
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: For a process this ancient? Not at all
<berndj> well, mems is <17 years old, no?
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: At this point I'm designing the process, not specific devices
<azonenberg_lab> When i start designing individual devices, maybe
<berndj> i thought you usanians were able to patent processes too, crazy folk over there
<azonenberg_lab> berndj: The point is, the processes i am using are all well established industry standards
<azonenberg_lab> that have been around a lot longer than 17 years
<berndj> cool
<azonenberg_lab> There may be a patent on, say, the photoresist i buy
<azonenberg_lab> But who cares? That's the manufacturer's problem
<azonenberg_lab> I just use it
<azonenberg_lab> adds 5ml beakers to shopping list
<azonenberg_lab> i bought a case of ten, broke one
<azonenberg_lab> And i used several in my last experiment and they're sitting in the "dirty glassware" box waiting to be cleaned
<azonenberg_lab> So i only have three left for what i'm about to do
<ziper> why dont you clean them?
<azonenberg_lab> ziper: I give them a quick rinse right after using but a full wash in detergent + triple rinse is saved for the end of the day's work
<Guest29878> I haven't cleaned my glassware yet because I'm not sure how to remove the dye I'm working with
<azonenberg_lab> furan: I'd try isopropanol, denatured alcohol, and acetone
<azonenberg_lab> probably in that order
<azonenberg_lab> most organic dyes will dissolve in one
<furan> hmm, ok
<azonenberg_lab> Wow, its getting hot in here... thermostat battery died, i have a hot plate going in the lab
<azonenberg_lab> and my server farm is running full-out doing some simulations lol
<furan> what software do you use?
<azonenberg_lab> furan: The sims are actually a chemical model using LAMMPS
<azonenberg_lab> consulting project unrelated to this
<azonenberg_lab> So in 6 mins this die will be exposed, then i can develop and try lift-off on it
<azonenberg_lab> I think i'll try doing really dilute hardmask (30% ish) and a couple of layers
<azonenberg_lab> To make sure i get a nice low-stress coating
<azonenberg_lab> I want a relatively thin ~200nm layer at most
<azonenberg_lab> the last one was much thicker, probably around 800nm, and cracked horribly
<azonenberg_lab> the one before that was around 75 and too thin, didnt cover it all the way
<azonenberg_lab> but i overcorrected
<azonenberg_lab> So somewhere in betwen should work nicely
<azonenberg_lab> Three drops looks to give good results :)
<azonenberg_lab> This is actually not bad resolution
<azonenberg_lab> Going to run another die with the same settings while i wait for the oven to warm up
<azonenberg_lab> That die was successful, now i am going to repeat the same process steps on several other dies
<azonenberg_lab> but stop a little earlier each time
<azonenberg_lab> Then pop the whole sequence under the SEM next week
<CIA-67> homecmos r94 | trunk/lithography-tests/labnotes/azonenberg_labnotes.txt | Today's lab notes. Mostly preparing specimens for SEM imaging.
<bart416> We're having the mother of all thunderstorms any second now I fear :(
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: Why do you say that? Green sky?
<azonenberg_lab> And where?
<bart416> Belgium
<bart416> And no green sky (yet)
<bart416> But we just had 5-6mm hailstones
<azonenberg_lab> o_o
<bart416> and it's a nasty one as well
<bart416> No real visual warnings
<bart416> Just at a sudden you saw two leaders appear and bam, hit something
<azonenberg_lab> i see
<bart416> all while the sky is blue-ish
<azonenberg_lab> We're expecting heavy rain tomorrow but nothing too bad
<bart416> Well, for Europe this is pretty extreme weather
<azonenberg_lab> possibly a small thunderstorm
<azonenberg_lab> and i see
<azonenberg_lab> In the northeastern USA we get heavy t-storms pretty often
<azonenberg_lab> during summer
<bart416> Forecast includes possible small twisters
<azonenberg_lab> o_O
<azonenberg_lab> We had tornado warnings here not long ago
<azonenberg_lab> They tend to accompany severe thunderstorm warnings
<azonenberg_lab> actually i think its technically a watch, not a warning
<azonenberg_lab> a warning is issued when a tornado is actually sighted, a watch means conditions could develop into one
<bart416> We don't have a warning system for those here
<bart416> In whole of West-Europe you get maybe 1 or 2 tornados per year that are worth calling tornados
<bart416> The worst the others do is remove some leaves from trees
<azonenberg_lab> I see, lol
<azonenberg_lab> In central USA they're dangerously common
<azonenberg_lab> in the northeast, severe ones are rare but warnings occur frequently enough to be noticed
<bart416> And we get maybe one storm with 12 bft. winds / year
<azonenberg_lab> thats what, hurricane level?
<azonenberg_lab> Sounds a bit boring
<azonenberg_lab> At least some mildly severe weather keeps things interesting
<azonenberg_lab> some of my friends moved to california when they graduated for the "nice weatheR"
<azonenberg_lab> i stay in the northeast where we actually get a decent amount of snow, rain, thunderstorms, etc
<bart416> Snow we don't get much of either
<bart416> Though that might be related with me only living like 12km from the sea
<bart416> Ever been in a downburst btw?
<R0b0t1> Snow, rain, and thunderstorms are MAN weather.
<bart416> Now downbursts, that's man weather
<bart416> Our gate is solid cast iron framework
<bart416> attached by huge hinges
<bart416> Framework has a thin sheet metal on it
<bart416> Downburst picked it up and threw it accross the street :|
<bart416> You need to be with 4 people to even consider lifting those things normally...
<R0b0t1> wa
<bart416> The smith got a bit excited, lol
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: lol
<azonenberg_lab> R0b0t1: agreed
<bart416> I wouldn't mind a bit more snow
<bart416> Lets hope I get that scholarship, then I'll get more man weather :P
<azonenberg_lab> Though you have to be a bit crazy to live in a town that just got hit by a snowstorm
<azonenberg_lab> and, as your response, drive up north
<azonenberg_lab> and hike up a mountain to get even more snow :p
<bart416> Looks about right
<bart416> Is that you? :P
<azonenberg_lab> Yep, last fall
<bart416> Fun
<azonenberg_lab> and which scholarship? To a US school?
<bart416> Japan, lol
<azonenberg_lab> Ah
<bart416> That's the only one available for me at the moment
<azonenberg_lab> Still man weather, just a different kind
<bart416> Haven't finished my bachelor's degree yet
<azonenberg_lab> Ah, i see
<azonenberg_lab> got his a month ago
<bart416> Something about having to get your ass through Chemistry I >_>
<bart416> But she makes the exam harder every damned semester
<azonenberg_lab> never took chem 1
<bart416> It's mandatory
<azonenberg_lab> school of science doesnt require it at RPI, though we have to take bio
<bart416> But I might get a pass this time cause I should have passed all the other exams
<azonenberg_lab> Engineers have to take chem though
<bart416> is an EE student, remember :P
<azonenberg_lab> yeah lol
<azonenberg_lab> realizes his radioshack brand duster spray contains a bitterant
<azonenberg_lab> wonders if said bitterant is present in high enough concentrations to be responsible for my yield troubles
<azonenberg_lab> I just assumed it was all volatiles
<azonenberg_lab> gonna have to get some lab-grade spray some time and see if that helps any
<R0b0t1> Every dustoff has biterrant in it
<azonenberg_lab> if its cleanroom rated it shoudnt
<R0b0t1> remembers this time where all his food tasted bitter and he didn't know why...
<azonenberg_lab> same way lab grade ethylene glycol isnt fluorescent green etc
<R0b0t1> Well, yeah.
<azonenberg_lab> I wouldnt mind if the stuff was purely gaseous
<R0b0t1> Anything consumer, anyway
<azonenberg_lab> but i think it condenses on things
<bart416> azonenberg, ever considered using pure nitrogen? :P
<azonenberg_lab> "Precision filtered to less than .2 microns."
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: Yes, if i could get a small tank i'd do just that
<azonenberg_lab> rigging an inert gas setup is on the todo list
<azonenberg_lab> same as argon for sputtering
<azonenberg_lab> i want a short term solution
<bart416> you could use a CO2 cartridge for an airsoft rifle maybe?
<bart416> Those are rather cheap and shouldn't contain any dirt or dust
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: Maybe, but i want a regulator or at least something to drop the pressure a bit
<azonenberg_lab> wonders why duster sprays arent just N2
<bart416> Cause you weirdly enough can't get away with selling filtered air in cans >_>
<bart416> Except if it's for diving or airsoft
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: Pure N2, as in inert
<azonenberg_lab> Gonna have to pick up some of this my next order (i need more swabs and lint-free wipes some time too)
<azonenberg_lab> No mention of any added denatonium benzoate or similar
<bart416> while you're at it, pick up some ClF3 to put in small little aluminium containers and then hide it in people's pockets?
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: um, no thanks
<azonenberg_lab> a) they dont sell it
<azonenberg_lab> b) i dont want to get anywhere near it
<bart416> c) does anybody actually know how to extinguish a fire with that stuff?
<bart416> d) not really no
<bart416> e) all lab safety manuals tell you to run away if something goes wrong with that
<azonenberg_lab> Lol, pretty much
<azonenberg_lab> and hmm, radioshack msds doesnt list the bitterant either
<azonenberg_lab> grr... why cant they include mass spec data or something as well as the hazardous ingredients list? :P
<azonenberg_lab> I want to know if there's something in there at 500 ppm that can mess up my project lol
<azonenberg_lab> But that is something worth trying
<bart416> THey're not required to mention it cause the percentage is too low :P
<azonenberg_lab> squirt a lot of this on something and compare its properties to something not so squirted
<azonenberg_lab> see if any residue is visible
<bart416> Don't you have a mass spectrometer over there? :P
<azonenberg_lab> if its just an odorant like they add to gas its fine
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: At home? No
<azonenberg_lab> On campus? I'd expect several
<azonenberg_lab> but i dont know who runs them or how to use them
<bart416> I'm going to guess the chemistry and physics department
<bart416> Maybe electronics has one as well
<azonenberg_lab> I meant which faculty / labs
<azonenberg_lab> also, i dont think its the problem, i blew it on a glass slide and saw no residue
<bart416> Dunno, here chemical engineering had several
<azonenberg_lab> now starting to suspect the stuff i saw on the thing was actually depositing from contaimination in the rinse bath
<azonenberg_lab> that i was drying it from
<bart416> Why did I spend so much time last year helping that asshat of a girl use one of those things for a stupid report she was writing >_>
<bart416> Should have sabotaged it
<azonenberg_lab> Lol
<azonenberg_lab> Was she being nasty then too?
<R0b0t1> Because she has breasts, bart416.
<azonenberg_lab> Or being extra nice so you'd help
<azonenberg_lab> knows a female bio major who owes him a big favor after a similar situation
<azonenberg_lab> .docx format file got hosed the day before the paper was due
<azonenberg_lab> and of course i was the one she came to to fix it
<azonenberg_lab> Though i had a bit of an ulterior motive, i will freely admit
<azonenberg_lab> i was hoping she could get me time on one of the confocal fluorescence microscopes
<azonenberg_lab> Well, off to sleep for me - experiments today were largely successful but that doesnt mean i have any less work to do at my day job tmrw :P
<CIA-67> homecmos r95 | trunk/lithography-tests/labnotes/azonenberg_labnotes.txt | Updated lab notes for remainder of today's experiments.
<bart416> <azonenberg_lab> Or being extra nice so you'd help <-- that
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: lol
<azonenberg_lab> Its a survival skill any girl at an engineering school will learn
<bart416> Though for me it was cause I actually liked her, not to get time on microscopes >_>
<azonenberg_lab> Especially a good-looking one with below average talent
<bart416> The thing is, she's really smart
<bart416> Way smarter than me
<azonenberg_lab> And in my case, she was smart and somewhat crazy
<bart416> But she still asked for my help :S
<azonenberg_lab> And not my type
<azonenberg_lab> She tried to convince me to go to a *party*
<bart416> I tried to convince her to go to places but she never wanted to :(
<azonenberg_lab> If it was somebody i liked i'd invite her over the lab :P
<azonenberg_lab> Somebody who appreciates that i could get along with
<bart416> And the one time I did convince her a stupid friend of hers ruins it for me
<azonenberg_lab> i see lol
<bart416> But I doubt she ever actually liked me if I look at it afterwards
<azonenberg_lab> Yeah, even at engineering schools there arent many people (of either gender) who are even close to my level of geekiness
<bart416> But yeah, sort of hurts :(
<bart416> I blend in fairly well :p
<bart416> acts stupid most of the time
<bart416> On IRC as well >_>
<azonenberg_lab> If you add a "AND `gender`='f' AND `relstatus` = 'single'" to the query...
<azonenberg_lab> the result set shrinks even further :p
<bart416> ?
<azonenberg_lab> sql query lol
<bart416> what's the first part of the query :P
<azonenberg_lab> SELECT * FROM people WHERE geekiness > kGeeky*my_geekiness AND distance(location, my_location) < kDist
<azonenberg_lab> lol
<azonenberg_lab> But there are a few out there
<azonenberg_lab> I hear the bio department has a few female H. Sapiens in captivity being studied :P
<bart416> lol
<azonenberg_lab> In all seriousness, a few can be found
<bart416> Here as well
<azonenberg_lab> my "not-gf" (close female friend but we arent dating) is one, last time we were hanging out the conversation turned to gravitational fields around spinning black holes pretty quickly lol
<bart416> I'll admit I wouldn't hang out with you in real life :|
<azonenberg_lab> Lol, thats probably true of most people here
<azonenberg_lab> even the CIA bot ;)
<bart416> If I go to a bar with some friends I like to talk about not so serious stuff
<azonenberg_lab> And thats one of the things that annoys me about normal people sometimes lol
<bart416> And if it goes scientific it usually involves excessive amounts of explosives
<azonenberg_lab> I live the stuff
<bart416> You have a general geek issue
<azonenberg_lab> When i'm not doing my day job or consulting for a nanotech startup
<bart416> I only have the math issue
<azonenberg_lab> I'm doing chip fab
<azonenberg_lab> Or coding, or CPU design
<azonenberg_lab> Or reading papers that I think might be useful for my thesis work
<bart416> You can do that
<azonenberg_lab> lol
<azonenberg_lab> I think my brain is somewhat like a high speed electric motor
<azonenberg_lab> It needs to be under load all the time
<azonenberg_lab> or bad things happen
<azonenberg_lab> In the motor's case, it burns out the bearings
<bart416> But in my case it usually goes like this: Get up, go for a run, breakfast, shower, study a bit or do something useful, play some computer game, lunch, do something (hopefully involving female attention), dinner, study/work a bit, watch some films or series, sleep
<azonenberg_lab> In my case, i invent a load P
<bart416> The only thing that so far managed to block math out of my head is sitting next to a person I like :|
<azonenberg_lab> Even that wont do it for me lol
<azonenberg_lab> We end up talking math :P
<azonenberg_lab> Though not exclusively
<bart416> Heh
<bart416> My math problem is of the nature, give me anything and my head will solve it without me realising it
<azonenberg_lab> And my schedule...
<bart416> But in doing so it seems to take resources away from other things
<bart416> Bad bad resource manager!
<bart416> Don't make me ctrl alt escape you!
<azonenberg_lab> Get up, quick breakfast+shower, walk a mile-ish up to campus, classes and research, lunch if i'm not too absorbed in my work to realize i'm hungry, homework if any, research/consulting work, quick dinner (often while reading papers or something, sometimes skipped in favor of a granola bar or something if i'm glued to my work), sleep whenever i realize what time it is
<bart416> That doesn't sound all too healthy
<azonenberg_lab> I have a tendency to lose track of time and miss dinner or stay up way past when i should because i didnt notice how long i've been working :P
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: And i've tried the "relaxing" thing
<azonenberg_lab> Just doesnt work for me
<azonenberg_lab> after i got my bachelor's degree i went down the shore with the family for a week
<azonenberg_lab> Ended up spending most of the afternoons designing masks and processes for this project
<azonenberg_lab> because my mind couldn't stand being idle
<bart416> That's what you get female friends for o_O
<bart416> They'll drag you along and force you to have fun anyway
<azonenberg_lab> bart416: Depends on the type
<bart416> ok, the type I like :P
<azonenberg_lab> The one i was talking about is a rabid MMO player :P
<bart416> Know some of those but they're usually fat and ugly
<azonenberg_lab> She's a bit above average but far from fat and distinctly cute lol
<azonenberg_lab> Was quite suprised to hear she was a diehard RPGer
<azonenberg_lab> Then again, first glance at me IRL would probably not give the impression of a guy with a chip foundry in his living room
<azonenberg_lab> especially if i happen to be talking about some other equally technical but unrelated subject
<azonenberg_lab> Oh, and the other geeky female friend i have? EE masters student doing her thesis work on sputtering
<bart416> heh
<azonenberg_lab> and if i can convince her to tear herself away from the fancy RF sputtering rig in her lab for a little while and help debug mine...
<azonenberg_lab> Maybe i can get working metal deposition by next year
<bart416> lol
<azonenberg_lab> though first things first, i need an argon tank and a roughing pump
<azonenberg_lab> And before that, probably some sleep :P
<azonenberg_lab> afk
<bart416> heh
<bart416> 'nite I guess
<B0101> hi
<berndj> spinning black holes are creepy
<SolidRaven> berndj, so are you :P
<berndj> at least i'm uncharged
<azonenberg> woo, i'm getting on the SEM thursday