ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: hm?
<alexgordon> oh nothing
<alexgordon> this bug
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<purr\GH> [System] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 1 new commit to Master: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/System/commit/09a21e7e68428a9c4e3bc448659e36941cab0fa7
<purr\GH> System/Master 09a21e7 elliottcable: (new) Bringing in the Things-to-Status-Board scripts
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Dropbox! <3
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 1 new commit to Master: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/commit/4c19e03a923c048eb1525b39abc97f71f69a9e68
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 4c19e03 elliottcable: (- new meta) Adding submodule-management git hooks...
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Ugh. What's the difference between ‘concurrent’ and ‘parallel,’ again?
<joelteon> i think it's like, two things doing something, and then two things happening at the same time
<joelteon> right
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<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE closed issue #1: runInNewContext()'s sandbox argument fails on the client https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/issues/1
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE closed issue #2: runInNewContext leaves trash in the DOM in Safari https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/issues/2
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE closed issue #13: IE7 timing out on Testling https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/issues/13
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<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE opened issue #16: Convert pre-install to a Scripts/ script, and prepublish https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/issues/16
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<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 1 new commit to Master: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/commit/546dca9db38b8f6be4a58dcc0c5c20d116102c5e
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 546dca9 elliottcable: (new doc) Write a more friendly README, as we iterate towards sanity!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Anybody want to take a gander at this for me?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs, devyn, joelteon, cloudhead?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> even katlogic! :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wrote an Actual Readme™, now that development has progressed so much.
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 97 new commits to Master: https://github.com/Paws/Paws.js/compare/e204e8b4d98e...546dca9db38b
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 1f50fca Magnus Holm: (new api) Copying Micah's parser algorithm from µpaws.js...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master be236b5 elliottcable: (- new) Getting started on an internal reporting API...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master cee19b6 elliottcable: (new util) Partially replacing construct() with constructify()...
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn devyn devyn :D
<vigs> ooh a readme
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: vigs vigs :D
<vigs> ELLIOTTCABLE: ELLIOTTCABLE ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Hi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yes! I wrote!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's pretty I think! kinda!
<vigs> :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: hi, wrote a paws yet?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 'cuz this one's going really well, and I'm really happy
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I feel so productive right now. Goodfeels.
* vigs sobs
<vigs> I've been writing VHDL all day T_T
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wat.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> why on earth.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> aren't you in, like, freshman year of uni?
<vigs> And I accidentally took an hour long nap instead of just 10 minutes
<vigs> …no?
<vigs> I'm a second year, why?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wait. how old're you, again?
<vigs> 20
<vigs> .__.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hm. I always thought you were waaaaay younger.
<vigs> oh my god I'm 20
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I just lumped you in with vil 'cuz you both start with v. :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> well, clearly, you're older, so you should have an easier time writing a paws.
<vigs> we…we're the same age, ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, have you written one yet?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I thought vil was like 17
<ELLIOTTCABLE> UGH I AM BAD AT TIME
<vigs> he's 19
<ELLIOTTCABLE> HOW DOES TIME PASS WHEN I'M NOT LOOKING
<vigs> LOL
<purr> LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE> NOTHING SHOULD CHANGE UNLESS I'M PAYING ATTENTION
<vigs> vil and I were both born in 1994 and are in our second year of college (well, he's on summer break now, but)
<vigs> :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 1994 ;_;
<ELLIOTTCABLE> suddenly feel oh-so-old
<vigs> I realized I'm 20 and feel oh-so-oldl
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<vigs> …probably not helping, huh? :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> lolno
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi!
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> current status: vim support in the interactive module.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 'cuz I'm baller like that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> a wild greg appears!
<gregwhitworth> LOL
<gregwhitworth> I'm now rereading
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (=
<ELLIOTTCABLE> long time no see.
<gregwhitworth> yeah, how have you been?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> on and off.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> right now, very on. Productive-mode, cranking out good code. Y'know the feels.
<gregwhitworth> yeah, that's good to hear
<gregwhitworth> I've never worked with a Paws machine so the technical aspect shouldn't be critiqued by me for sure
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hahaha nobody has.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's still a young project. Just barely at the point where I can imagine anybody else playing with it, finally.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> four years in :P
<gregwhitworth> Oh
<gregwhitworth> Your first line makes it seem like I should have heard of it
<vigs> I wanna play with it; I'll probably only get a chance when it's summer, though :/
<gregwhitworth> possibly reword that then
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: didja write a Paws yet? didja?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -didja didja @ vigs
<purr> vigs: didja didja didjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa … writeapawsyet?
<vigs> omg
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: I kid, I kid.
<vigs> I'm like three weeks behind in my Computer Design class so I'm playing catch up today, so no, I haven't written a paws yet :'(
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hm. is process.title still non-functional on OS X? o_O
<gregwhitworth> From reading this it seems like it's Java, write once run everywhere
<gregwhitworth> I'm also inclined to ask if it can be run by a browser then why won't it run in all of them
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Mmm, except it's write-once-run-everywhereatonce. Distributed programmin', and all that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hm? it should run in all of them. Well, eventually. I introduced some code that's killing tests in a bunch of the browsers, but I'm a little preoccupied from fixing that yet.
<gregwhitworth> Ok
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's definitely intended to be compatible with basically everything as far back as IE 6.
<gregwhitworth> I get the async aspect I just am curious what I would use it for
<gregwhitworth> maybe I'm missing something
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Basically: it's meant to be what Node.js and JavaScript “could have been.”
<gregwhitworth> ok
<ELLIOTTCABLE> working in Node for web-related or network-related stuff is excellent; asynchronous programming is clearly the future for a huge sector of tasks
<gregwhitworth> that's what I was curious about as it seemed very similiar to node
<ELLIOTTCABLE> problem is, callback hell. Writing asynchronous logic in a purely synchronous language (no continuations, no promises or anything like that, etceteras) is truly a pain.
<gregwhitworth> yeah, have you played with C# async
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nope, never touched C#
<gregwhitworth> that's where a lot of the yields and stuff came from
<gregwhitworth> They had to tackle this a while back as well
<vigs> C# has some interesting async stuff
<gregwhitworth> It may be worth looking at
<vigs> I had to use it once.
<vigs> Once.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> coroutines are neat, of course.
<gregwhitworth> since you could see what you like and hate
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Paws is *really* weird. Nothing like that, though.
<gregwhitworth> Maybe that should be your opening line
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Its single primitive is a little bit like some cross between a delimited continuation and a coroutine
<gregwhitworth> :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (is C#'s approach a coroutine one? I'll take a look.)
<gregwhitworth> I believe so, I'm not a huge async person in C#
<gregwhitworth> I just know some guys at Microsoft live by it
<gregwhitworth> That's why it was added in, for reasons your stating but that doesn't mean it's perfect (no language will be though)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm a huge fan of anybody, anywhere, properly supporting asynchronous development. :D
<gregwhitworth> I lived by PHP, switched over to C# and .NET and now even get annoyed by JS
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yeah, looks like coroutines. await meaning a traditional ‘yield’
<gregwhitworth> Typed languages are beautiful
<gregwhitworth> yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, if you're familiar with that, the core innovation of Paws is that every single operation acts as an `await` in that sense.
<gregwhitworth> ok
<gregwhitworth> gotcha, always waiting then, or at minimum expecting a result
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nothing ever ‘returns’ in the synchronous sense; they simply hand themselves over to somebody, and that somebody can resume them whenever it wishes (traditionally, with results; although not remotely in *all* cases is that the call-pattern used)
<gregwhitworth> async though
<gregwhitworth> sounds pretty slick
<gregwhitworth> would love to see it running something
* ELLIOTTCABLE nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE> thanks for taking a look for me. (=
<gregwhitworth> especially in comparison to something else
<gregwhitworth> No problem
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Been a while since I did anything user-facing. Feels good to write.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> spent the other day beautifying --help output, too.
<gregwhitworth> I'll star it so that I can follow it
<ELLIOTTCABLE> http://i.ell.io/r2F5
<ELLIOTTCABLE> vigs: you've played with C#?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm always surprised when I hear that; I always tend towards assuming that only closeted Windows developers use it. ;)
<gregwhitworth> No, it's quite popular actually, and .NET is very powerful
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<vigs> ELLIOTTCABLE: nothing too serious, but yes; at work, the (web) frontend automated testing framework is written in C# (just like the rest of the non-mobile software my company releases)
<vigs> And I worked on that framework last summer
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh goddamnit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> something amongst my fragile construction of coffee-coverage, coffee script, mocha, mocha-lcov-reporter, Travis CI, and Coveralls, is breaking horribly
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and I can't figure out which bit is causing it
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<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: ooh paws paws paws readme readme readme
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: :D
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 1 new commit to Master: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/commit/49b9c1949f9f019ce1953c831a3833eaf2dc6f62
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 49b9c19 elliottcable: (- meta noop) Ignore failing coverage-generation on Travis builds
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whee. Coverage and travis builds all fixed, so that feels good too.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: any response? you went quiet!
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: my response is "neat"
<devyn> it's a good overview
<ELLIOTTCABLE> thanks (=
<ELLIOTTCABLE> any ways I can improve it?
<devyn> maybe some examples of what you can do with it
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yeah, need some content in the `usage` category
<ELLIOTTCABLE> getting there. (=
<devyn> alright
<devyn> ^_^
<ELLIOTTCABLE> really need to start thinking about federation
<ELLIOTTCABLE> both 'cuz getting to the point where I need to start writing some abstractions, and thus I need a place to *put* them, and thus I need Units, and thus I need a unitary interface design
<ELLIOTTCABLE> … and 'cuz, distribution is cool, and you're going to write me a paws, right? and then we can connect them up together and cheer and eat peaches
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ;)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -didja @ devyn
<purr> devyn: didja write a paws yet? didja? didja!?
<devyn> workin' on it!
<devyn> right now
<ELLIOTTCABLE> :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I died.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I just, absolutely, fucking died. ('=
<devyn> okay, I swear I was JUST looking at that
<devyn> and
<devyn> I was like
<devyn> why is there a bear
<devyn> who is this even from
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my dad's a very Alaskan guy, but insanely adorable.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Imagine … Pooh Bear, plus Eeyore, but who really likes shooting things.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and occasionally eating them afterwards.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, I bought him that for father's day. now he can look even more like his personality. :D
<devyn> d'aww
<ELLIOTTCABLE> okay
<ELLIOTTCABLE> now that I've stopped drawing long enough to breathe again,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> code.
* ELLIOTTCABLE shakes head happily
<ELLIOTTCABLE> My ping to Google's nearest server is reliably ~5.2ms
<ELLIOTTCABLE> can't even, can't even.
<devyn> 64 bytes from 24.244.19.173: icmp_seq=4 ttl=61 time=14.1 ms
<devyn> 64 bytes from 24.244.19.173: icmp_seq=5 ttl=61 time=19.3 ms
<devyn> 64 bytes from 24.244.19.173: icmp_seq=6 ttl=61 time=14.3 ms
<devyn> the joys of cable internet
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm on some obscure wireless shit
<devyn> that's fuckin' weird then
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but it's blazing fast, so I'll swallow whatever black-magic voodoo they use to get the bytes to me
<devyn> I kinda miss exceptions now
<devyn> :/
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<joelteon> like, things that aren't normal, or the programming thing?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: hm?
<Determinist> jesus, Ember can be such a frustrating framework sometimes.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Determinist: never used it, but actually looked at it for the first time ever fairly recently.
<devyn> Rust's error handling is all explicit; no exceptions
<ELLIOTTCABLE> don't usually pay much attention to the front-end-Node economy, but I'd heard so many good things.
<devyn> it's really not that fun
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Determinist: thoughts?
<joelteon> i knoe dat feel devyn
<Determinist> ELLIOTTCABLE: definitely not bad, but there are certain "conventions" that keep ennoying the fuck out of me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh hey Determinist
<ELLIOTTCABLE> read my README
<Determinist> s/ennoying/annoying
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then clone the project
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then check out the --help text
<ELLIOTTCABLE> tell me what you think (=
<Determinist> ELLIOTTCABLE: will do, once i'm done with some work related stuff. releasing a new build today, so gotta be done with that first.
<devyn> man, Rust surely can't be a very easy language to compile, but `rustc` is really quite fast
<joelteon> it used to be really slow
<devyn> all of that
<devyn> in 2.36s
<joelteon> yeah that's cool
<joelteon> and rust used to be REALLY slow, but apparently they've made some huge improvements in runtime recently
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my heavy JavaScript tests take 479ms. :P
<joelteon> rustc has to do work
<joelteon> nerd
<ELLIOTTCABLE> just sayin'. jit ftw.
<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: my tests take 14ms
<joelteon> i'm singlehandedly trying to make yesod enterprise-ready
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: wat
<devyn> "enterprise-ready"
<devyn> ahhaa
<joelteon> well I mean
<joelteon> usable
<joelteon> rails has 90 million libraries
<joelteon> yesod has barely anything
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: “i'm singlehandedly trying to make yesod enterprise-ready” wat.
<purr> beep.
<joelteon> especially w.r.t testing
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -what
<purr> <alexgordon> currently problem: two while loops
<devyn> hggagaga
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ghgghgigh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> aaa
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (forgot the a's)
<joelteon> doesn't support selenium, model factories/fixtures, and so on
<devyn> :p
<joelteon> and nobody's written anything for it
<devyn> because
<devyn> it's not really used much...
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<joelteon> yeah no shitting
<devyn> so why are you using it?
<joelteon> i like it, and i'd like to make it more usable for others
<devyn> 'kay
<ELLIOTTCABLE> herskerl
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -haskell
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: HASKELL IS NOT A TOY.
<joelteon> also this weekend's project has been nix
<joelteon> it's neat
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nix?
<joelteon> yeah, the package manager
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wast
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I fuckin' love Alaskans.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi all
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: how's life
<ELLIOTTCABLE> about to flip on the interactive mode.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> probably going to be completely pointless, 'cuz I don't have any primitives yet, but lolwatever
<purr> lolwatever
<devyn> haha okay
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nonetheless, I am excited
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 'cuz I like pretty things
<devyn> frankenstein "is coming" (to life)
<devyn> Script { Symbol[frankenstein], Symbol[is coming], Expression { Symbol[to], Symbol[life] } }
<devyn> and that's with properly generated objects
<ELLIOTTCABLE> :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so you've got the object-system in place, it seems
<devyn> eh not really
<ELLIOTTCABLE> members and all?
<devyn> no
<devyn> :p
<ELLIOTTCABLE> damn
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<devyn> I do like that Rust has neat things like unimplemented!()
<devyn> it just fails if you call it, with "not yet implemented"
<devyn> but it looks much nicer
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: hi
<devyn> hi
<purr> devyn: hi!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> purr: hi
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<devyn> <3 purr
<purr> Let it be known that devyn hearts purr.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> sleepyicky.
<devyn> indeed
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hrm
<ELLIOTTCABLE> am dumb probably
<ELLIOTTCABLE> am not sure why am doing wrong >:\
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<manveru> i'd prolly use rust by now if they got rid of semicolons
<manveru> but already converted our whole company to go ^^;
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh gods why
<manveru> because i got clusterheadaches from C#
<ELLIOTTCABLE> … oh gods why oh gods why
<ELLIOTTCABLE> C# and Go? Where's the manveru I knew? ;_;
<manveru> i still do ruby too :)
<manveru> speaking of alaska, is that old husky-loving japan-fanboi still alive?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> dude, no clue
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I stopped talking to him when he offered to buy me a fursuit and fly me to furcon with him
<manveru> haven't seen tsume in ages
<manveru> lol
<purr> lol
<manveru> he's nice... in his own way, i guess
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hahaha.
<manveru> anyway, i work at dotabuff.com now, and a lot of the backend used to be C# because that's what the old IT guy knew
<manveru> the rest was in ruby, and slow as hell
<ELLIOTTCABLE> eek
<manveru> partially also because it had to talk with a pg db a few TB big
<manveru> so we moved that mostly to a riak cluster, hollowed out the rails stuff to talk to a few go rest apis, and now it's about 20x faster :)
<manveru> you ever play dota?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nope
<ELLIOTTCABLE> not much of a gamer, truthfully
<ELLIOTTCABLE> had a WoW phase, and am occasionally toying with Guild Wars 2, 'cuz SwooshyCueb
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but that's about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> too busy hacking'.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> manveru: seen Paws, yet?
<manveru> nope
* ELLIOTTCABLE grins
<ELLIOTTCABLE> fresh meat!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my work of the last four years. a new kind've programming language.
<manveru> is that like your new kind of image editor?
* ELLIOTTCABLE eyebrows
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wat?
<manveru> hm, must've been someone else
<manveru> nm :)
<manveru> yeah, i got it
<ELLIOTTCABLE> manveru: actually, just wrote that README today. I'm not really big on documenting my work in a static form, previously. >,>
<ELLIOTTCABLE> trying to be a little bit better about writing down what the fuck it is I'm actually doing.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ah, k
<ELLIOTTCABLE> anyway. done anything particularly neat, since last time we talked?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> any open-souce work at all?
<manveru> pretty much everything i do open-source is on github
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh my god, I forgot ramaze was a thing
<manveru> though i haven't done much of that this year... apart from the steam client for go
<ELLIOTTCABLE> node-steam. interesting.
<manveru> atm i'm working on a replay parser for dota2
<manveru> esports got fucking big :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> replay parser?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> esports?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> SPEAK ENGLISH, MAN
<manveru> hehe
<ELLIOTTCABLE> googled esports
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and was immediately set upon by the urge to jump off my balcony ಠ_ಠ
<ELLIOTTCABLE> now this crap has infiltrated my safe-haven of geekdom?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> GOD FORBID
<manveru> yes sir
<ELLIOTTCABLE> revolting. truly revolting.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> :P
<manveru> i'll fly to seattle in summer for the biggest event this year :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you're coming to the U.S.?
<manveru> frequently
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ah, neat
<manveru> was in SF last year
<ELLIOTTCABLE> let me know if you come through Chicago. (=
<manveru> chicago was two years ago ^^;
<manveru> was at a voip conference for a few days
<manveru> so... where the hell can i find paws samples?
<manveru> all i see so far is a half-assed lisp rip-off :P
<manveru> in js none the less
<ELLIOTTCABLE> That's because you don't have the mental capacity to look beyond syntax and pay attention to the seman—*cough*, I mean, let me enlighten you.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> there's no syntax; given that lisp gravitated towards s-exprs because McCarthy had more important things to think about than syntax, any code you've seen is a similarly syntax-light expression of a set of operations.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> think a cross between lisp and the JVM bytecode.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> anyway. important part of Paws is none of that. it's basically a JVM for CPS-transformed operations, designed to have those CPS-transforms abstracted away beautifully.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> trying to leverage the excellent asynch properties of pervasive CPS, without the pain that comes from most of the attempts to mix CPS with, well, anything the fuck else.
<manveru> what's a CPS?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> er
<ELLIOTTCABLE> crap.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> okay, another approach.
<manveru> continuation-passing-style?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yah
<manveru> cyber-physical-system?
<manveru> ok...
<manveru> continuations i know at least
<ELLIOTTCABLE> good, good
<ELLIOTTCABLE> had me scared there, for a second :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Paws-based programming languages' “functions” don't ever ‘return.’ There's no synchronous calls like that. Instead, when some code needs a subroutine to do some work for it, they pass *themselves* to that subroutine.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's a lot like a delimited continuation, but with less state.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that structure, a bit of code that passes itself to other bits of code, is called an ‘execution’ … which is exactly what it is. Instead of being a bit of data that says “you have a handle on me, and that means you can *continue* from <given location>”, which is what a continuation does; an execution *is* the running-of-the-code that was previously
<ELLIOTTCABLE> going on at <given location>.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Subtle difference, but has a couple important ramifications. Anyway, moving on.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Paws lends itself very, very strongly to asynchronous workflows: if `a` calls `b`, there's no reason that `a` has to stop and wait for `b`.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> to turn that on its head, there's also no reason why `b` necessarily needs to worry about ever ‘returning’ to `a`.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> less-obviously, since ‘returning’ results is now a flexible construct … not only can it happen <never>, or more traditionally <once> … it can happen <many> times, as well.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> which obviously lends itself very well to ‘generator’-style code. `a` calls `b`, waits for results; then `b` resumes a copy of `a`'s frozen state every time it gets new data.
<manveru> kinda sounds like chicken scheme
<ELLIOTTCABLE> there's several more patterns like that that take advantage of those properties (it's fairly trivial to implement traditional continuations on top of executions, for instance; similarly, trivial to implement user-friendly explicit coroutines)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yep, like I said, pretty similar to delim continuations
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, that's the primary execution model of the machine.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> there's some other crap thrown in there
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ranging from the boring (lua/javascript/lisp-esque object system, straightforward as it can be) to the really fucking awesome (automated massive parallelization of your code; distributed computing; time-travelling error correction)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but most of that's still under development/design. Part I explained is the part that matters.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> anyway. back to code!
<manveru> :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh, thanks for coming and hanging out. Missed y'all.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> trying to think of the name of the other guy.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> not the furry, errrr, wassahwratface
<manveru> shevy?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> fuck. it really *has* been that long.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nahhh, although, lol yes him too,
<purr> lol
<manveru> that guy is still alive and planning world domination or something
<ELLIOTTCABLE> shevy? really? :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I more see him as the Ruby Lapdog of the Revolution.
<manveru> uhm... yeah, pretty much
<manveru> he tries to turn everything he touches into ruby
<manveru> i just wish he actually knew ruby :P
<manveru> anw, carry on, i'd love to have some distributed version of smalltalk some day
<ELLIOTTCABLE> gemstone?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> was pretty sure there *was* a distributed smalltalk. hm.
<manveru> yeah, gemstone/s does that
<manveru> but it also costs a fortune i think
<manveru> whatever happened to maglev...
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yeah I was about to say
<ELLIOTTCABLE> afaik maglev is alive and well
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but I haven't ruby'd in yeaaaaarrrs
<manveru> extended full version for only 6k
<ELLIOTTCABLE> perpetual license for only $120,000
<manveru> http://maglev.github.io/ says you can use the free version for playing around
<manveru> can only use 2 cores though
<manveru> so yeah...
<manveru> bbiab, got lives to save and hairs to cut
<ELLIOTTCABLE> o7
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> wow.
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 12 new commits to Master: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/compare/49b9c1949f9f...237b6470a816
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master fdb987c elliottcable: (- new untested) Refactoring Table#remove to remove individual masks
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master cc5c7d2 elliottcable: (- new) Set process title!
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 3cfe3d9 elliottcable: (- new api) Expose tput conveniences for fg/bg colour setting
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi, alexgordon. (=
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE created implement-interact from Master (+0 new commits): https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/commits/implement-interact
<alexgordon> hi liott
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hiliott
<alexgordon> one benefit of living in a small country: no distribution centers
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so hungry that my stumnich hurts
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Drerororopperp
<ELLIOTTCABLE> :x
<alexgordon> there's like a website now for everything you might want to buy
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: talk languages to me
<katlogic> I like the brutal honesty there
<alexgordon> man why is it so hard to find a suitcase without a telescoping handle
<katlogic> Also polite way 'JS sucks since it does not allow arbitrary type as a key, only strings)
<alexgordon> wait, it doesn't?
<katlogic> No, keys are string only
<katlogic> (Arrays is just special optimised case)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: lolrite
<purr> lolrite
<ELLIOTTCABLE> even arrays appear, for every single possible way, to be strings too
<ELLIOTTCABLE> javascript array is map of string-ish base-ten integers to values.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> or at least, looks that way from within the language.
<katlogic> Well, it used to be like that, but the spec eventually matched the actual implementation in ES3 or so
<ELLIOTTCABLE> current status: trying to fuck node's readline module in the anus.
<katlogic> That is, for 0..n integers, keys are always coerced to integers
<ELLIOTTCABLE> at this rate I should just tear the whole thing out and roll my own /=
<katlogic> anything else, still string
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: what's the practical difference between “strings coerced to integers” and “integers coerced to strings”?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in terms of acting as a key, that is.
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: For example, iteration
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh, 'course. I'm only speaking in terms of assignment.
<katlogic> lemma: a = []; a[-1] = 1; b[0] = 2; for (k in a) ...
<katlogic> compared to for (k = 0; k < a.length; ...
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the Array type seems easiest to understand if one thinks of it as an Object that has a magical .length property
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's how I tend to explain it to newcomers, anyway
<katlogic> Well, it _is_ an object
<katlogic> with magical semantics of [] for 0..n integers (and strings coerced to that :)
<katlogic> That said, ArrayBuffers are even more wtf
<katlogic> but meh, flaming about JSs consistency is kinda tired topic
<katlogic> i really wish there was just built-in object which allowed arbitrary keys
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ugh fuck me, the readline module really *does* stomp on just about every goddamn thing.
<alexgordon> wtf you can get "men's" and "unisex" luggage, what's the difference
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: don't we all.
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: what are you trying to do with it?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'm big on the pretties.
<katlogic> Ah, ansi colors 'n stuff
<ELLIOTTCABLE> current tweak out of many: the entire line that the prompt resides on should be inverted.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yep
<katlogic> might be better off to just ffi ncurses
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so, couple problems: readline.js like to stomp on the content of the line constantly, to ‘refresh’ the content … and monkey-patching my way into that looks like a nightmare, because it's spread across a ton of functions
<ELLIOTTCABLE> god, nurses is worse
<katlogic> indeed, but works for this kind of shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> believe me, I know, I've written a ridiculous quantity of code relying on nurses /=
<katlogic> ie render buffers for line and all
<katlogic> doing ansi manual is all fun and games ... until you need actual "pixel buffer"
<ELLIOTTCABLE> only if you think/work in its model, which is the *worst* model evar
<ELLIOTTCABLE> if you're not trying to draw some god-awful “window” approximation using Unicode characters and treating the terminal as a grid of pixels, then ncurses is *not* your friend.
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: Anyways, just pull readline.js and beat it to your liking
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: yah, about to do exactly that :P
<katlogic> monkeypatching existing node apis might seem polite at first, but ultimately kinda silly is silly :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ncurses was great back when that was still kitschy, but nobody sane wants to do that nowadays.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> well, I'm more torn between diving in and pull-requesting a bunch of fixes, or just re-writing it locally
<ELLIOTTCABLE> problem with both is that joyent/ry's coding style is massively anathema to me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> to me, all the syntax needs to get shoved over to the right edge of the file, out of the reader's way. It's bad enough that they dedicate entire *lines* to random syntax noise like brackets,
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: Well, _it is_ broken horribly
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but then I come across constructs like this:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> }
<katlogic> especially emitKey
<ELLIOTTCABLE> else {
<katlogic> makes this awful assumption
<katlogic> that keycodes come once at a time
<katlogic> _wrong luke_
<ELLIOTTCABLE> guys. did you SERIOUSLY just spend *two lines* on closing one block, and opening the corresponding else-block? ಠ_ಠ
<ELLIOTTCABLE> lololol right
<purr> lololol
<katlogic> those things can come buffered if event loops does not pick it fast enough
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but yeah. idk if I'm nice enough to fix this. /=
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: readline.js is _huge_
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: fully aware.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's cool when you talk about something I know things about :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE> makes me feel smart.
<katlogic> and it is not broken because people are incompetent, those sort of bugs come when reinventing the wheel
<katlogic> Doing NIH right is hard.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I had high hopes for chjj's work,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but he's gone full-retard with the widgets and box model and form-layout and shit /=
<katlogic> hm, looks pretty cool
<katlogic> well, just ignore the form layout
<katlogic> but rip the line-renderer
<ELLIOTTCABLE> well, that's 90% of his work
<katlogic> *you will eventually* need it
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but I *do* jack his tput.js for great justice
<katlogic> doing line editing, especially with fancy prompts just using ansi is crazy
<katlogic> wow
<katlogic> it does parse terminfo
<katlogic> and not just fire vt100 away
<katlogic> hes pretty serious about replicating this curses gizmo
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yerp.
<katlogic> well i guess one needs that
<katlogic> especially for 256 color terms, mouse support, screen buffer saving/switching and such
* katlogic had his share dealing with differences between Terminal.app, xterm and urxvt too
<ELLIOTTCABLE> good times.
<katlogic> I suppose you're familiar with https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/a-whole-new-world
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nope
<ELLIOTTCABLE> don't really do talks
<katlogic> watch it
<katlogic> this guy does stand-up comeny
<katlogic> for PL
<ELLIOTTCABLE> have never understood how somebody can spend *an hour* listening to somebody talk
<ELLIOTTCABLE> link me a g'damn blog post that I can read in seven minutes, kthx
<ELLIOTTCABLE> is the entertainment value really high enough to justify the time wasted? /=
<katlogic> Talks are cool when done by people actually capable of rhetorics.
<katlogic> Unfortunately, many geeks just fail at that. Content alone indeed fits blags better.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> bahhahah
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that was remarkably easy
<ELLIOTTCABLE> far from perfect, too, but hey
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Horrible Hax™ <'3
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: languages
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: languages
<katlogic> ELLIOTTCABLE: Well, for actual entertainment I suppose https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript or https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat works, though it lacks on actual information value.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> seen `wat`
<ELLIOTTCABLE> was cute
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: languages
<ELLIOTTCABLE> katlogic: forgive me if I'm a party-pooper.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -nosleep
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: had no sleep. Give him/her a break! Also, if you don't want to sleep either: <http://reddit.com/r/nosleep>
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: languages
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: furrow!
<alexgordon> compilers
<alexgordon> type systems
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: goddamn langsagna.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Ruby al dente, marinated in a Scheme reduction, and sprinkled with Javegano.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so many hungry.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> man.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hacky, but totally worked.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> can't decide if I'm the Best Person™, or the Worst Person™.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> http://ell.io/ine4z
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ 68d3ae3 elliottcable: + fixing result-inspection
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE created implement-interact+ (+4 new commits): https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/compare/a0d1af4a1898^...e91b532272ba
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ d1b9cdb elliottcable: + patching tput's column measurement
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ a0d1af4 elliottcable: + a huge chunk of Interact, written
<ELLIOTTCABLE> just monkey-patched, after all. Didn't need all that much, as it turned out.
<alexgordon> I just wrote a 17 line to help me pick underwear
<alexgordon> because why not
<alexgordon> *17 line python script
<ELLIOTTCABLE> wat
<alexgordon> hm
<alexgordon> it needs more interactivity
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<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 3 new commits to implement-interact: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/compare/237b6470a816...a9a4d90e115f
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact 1857a45 elliottcable: (new cli api) Hello, repl. (=...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact f871bfc elliottcable: (re style cli) Huge, fragile, horrible, monkey-patching hacks...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact a9a4d90 elliottcable: (- fix api) Patch Tput's handling of columns...
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 3 new commits to implement-interact+: https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.js/compare/e91b532272ba...c69529ad1522
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ c59175f elliottcable: + right-align the salutation
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ c69529a elliottcable: %%SYNC
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/implement-interact+ 71dc664 elliottcable: (- re style cli) *More* horrible, evil hax
<purr\Paws> [Paws.js] ELLIOTTCABLE pushed 3 new commits to Master: https://github.com/Paws/Paws.js/compare/237b6470a816...a9a4d90e115f
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master f871bfc elliottcable: (re style cli) Huge, fragile, horrible, monkey-patching hacks...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master a9a4d90 elliottcable: (- fix api) Patch Tput's handling of columns...
<purr\Paws> Paws.js/Master 1857a45 elliottcable: (new cli api) Hello, repl. (=...
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> RedCheer: Airz-senpai, I--
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Airz: RedCheer-san!!
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<yorick> at least they stopped with the coffee stuff
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yorick: nope
<ELLIOTTCABLE> still coffee'ing
<prophile> I LOVE COFFEE
<cloudhead> ME TOO :'(
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hello guys
<ELLIOTTCABLE> guys, hi guys
<ELLIOTTCABLE> guys
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hey guys
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<audy> help
<audy> music?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -help music @ audy
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -find help @ audy
<purr> audy: You're beyond help.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -find music @ audy
<purr> audy: Found: suspense!
<audy> :(
<audy> !songme suspense!
<sharkbot> http://tinysong.com/uXYv Frankenstein - Suspense
<ELLIOTTCABLE> audy: I did things I did things I did thiiiiiings
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the fuck is a sharkbot
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's a dumb bot
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -listening suspense! @ audy
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE is listening to “Frankenstein”, by Suspense
<audy> hehe
<audy> purr is better
<ELLIOTTCABLE> :P
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<audy> -listening test test @ audy
<purr> audy is listening to “Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm”, by Crash Test Dummies
<ELLIOTTCABLE> time to make submodules my bitch.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> dskuza!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> look who's alive.
<dskuza> i'm dead inside so not really
<ELLIOTTCABLE> me too
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my eyes are made of hot lead
<dskuza> i've been writing paws in golang all weekend
<ELLIOTTCABLE> man, your head must hurt
<ELLIOTTCABLE> from all that golanging
<dskuza> dat scalability and asynchronicity (sp?) yo
<dskuza> jk i haven't coded since like friday
<ELLIOTTCABLE> lololololol
<purr> lololololol
<dskuza> mimic
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mimic
<vigs> mimic
<ELLIOTTCABLE> fucking vigs
<vigs> I am? Sweeeeeeeeeeet
<dskuza> hi everybody.
<dskuza> i think i only know EC here and he actually hates me IRL he told me so friday
<vigs> hi dskuza
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yah i told him friday
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I haven't slept since then
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so my eyeballs are made of led
<yorick> well EC hates a lot of people
<vigs> Light Emitting Diodes, ELLIOTTCABLE?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but it's okay 'cuz Paws.js has an interactive REPL now
<ELLIOTTCABLE> LLEDIOTTCABLE
<dskuza> did you write it in go?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> of course not. go is lè dumb.
<dskuza> i'm gonna rewrite go in paws in go
<vigs> go for it
<vigs> teehee
<dskuza> i don't even know wtf i'm talking about
<dskuza> what's a code
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -didja @ dskuza
<purr> dskuza: didja write a paws yet? didja? didja!?
<vigs> write it in COBOL
<dskuza> no but my cat has 4 of them
<vigs> ayyyyy
* dskuza is imagining EC headdesking right now
<ELLIOTTCABLE> well, I'm watching the Inbetweeners, so, basically, yes
<yorick> have y'all seen Silicon Valley?
<vigs> ELLIOTTCABLE: great show
<ELLIOTTCABLE> nope
<vigs> yorick: nope…not sure if I want to, either
<yorick> vigs: it's a bit cringy but not in a way that makes fun of people
<vigs> yeah, so I've heard
<dskuza> watched the first ep, was pretty good
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's horribly horrible
<yorick> no you're thinking of dogs
<yorick> dogs are horrible :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “There's three things you need to know 'bout european birds, Will.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *1 finger* “They're hairy.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *2 finger* “They're filthy.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *3 finger* “And they don't mind if you wipe it on the curtains.”
<dskuza> let's all just take a moment and remember the /real/ best show ever: Psych.
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<vigs> …wat
<dskuza> duuuuude how sick would rubber dogs be
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> dskuza: boing, boing
<yorick> that's now even how rubber works
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it is if you say mean things about dogs.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> boing.
<dskuza> super bouncy dogs
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ;)
<yorick> well they shouldn't bark at people on the streets because they look at them wrong, then
<dskuza> some dogs are bitches
<dskuza> science says so
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Science™
<joelteon> closing in on 50% of dogs are bitches
<ELLIOTTCABLE> now he's slapping his cock
<ELLIOTTCABLE> this show this show this show this show
<dskuza> can someone pay me like $70k a year to not produce any commercially available software but just fuck around and love it
<dskuza> i'll love you forever
<joelteon> sure
<joelteon> does that involve healthcare and stuff
<ELLIOTTCABLE> dskuza: how's the stage bloc going
<ELLIOTTCABLE> not enough go for your tastes?
<dskuza> its cool and all but this is the third app in a row whose entire focus is the same as the previous
<dskuza> joelteon: nope i don't get hurt
<joelteon> oh
* dskuza just wants a vacation and doesn't wanna rant on twitter because bosses can see it
<dskuza> so you guys get my whininess instead ;)
<vigs> woo
<ELLIOTTCABLE> design problems
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ughghg sometimes I hate node's module architecture
<joelteon> haha node
<joelteon> you hipster
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I don't remotely see how node makes someone a hipster.
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<dskuza> it's cuz it's not asm
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I imagine alexgordon talks like these people
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and it makes me smile
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: you talk like these people
<vigs> lol
<purr> lol
<joelteon> isn't node the hipster language of choice?
<joelteon> it's the new rails
<ELLIOTTCABLE> … wat …
<joelteon> it is right
<joelteon> am I crazy?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Yes.
<joelteon> damn
<joelteon> ELLIOTTCABLE have you tried nix yet?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> never heard of it.
<joelteon> you should, it's really cool
<ELLIOTTCABLE> *what* is it.
<joelteon> it's a package manager
<joelteon> "purely functional" or something
<joelteon> packages are tagged with the hash of their build deps
<joelteon> atomic upgrades and rollbacks
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<joelteon> if you're developing, you can use nix-shell, which gives you an environment where only the dependencies you specified exist
<joelteon> so you can't magically pick up dependencies that are on your system but not included in the build process
<joelteon> it's like a built-in sandbox for anything
<joelteon> no more rbenv
<ELLIOTTCABLE> what is this, for Haskell, or what?
<joelteon> it's for anything
<joelteon> it's a package manager
<joelteon> system package manager
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> ah.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> OS X compatible?
<joelteon> yead
<joelteon> yeah
<joelteon> it works on linux, bsd, and darwin
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<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: I talk like who?
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: lol I use node now
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: you use it "now"? You didn't previously?
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: erm, well I didn't use it before it was introduced
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Confus
<vigs> nobody used node before it was introduced…
<vigs> on account of it not existing
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<alexgordon> vigs: right bill
<vigs> have you gone quackers? I'm no bill.
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