<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: presumably if bitpay gets the money after it expires, it will send it back?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: it sounds like all you can do is wait and see though
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have no idea; and that'd be goddamn bad, because it went through a shared send.
<alexgordon>
:|
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but yeah from my quick research, bitpay doesn't send it back, it just goes into the void
<alexgordon>
it can't go into the void...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but you can contact bitpay support and have a transaction manually associated with a given invoice after-the-fact
<alexgordon>
it would go into bitpay's wallets
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and it absolutely *can* go into the void, it's Bitcoin.
<alexgordon>
well I mean, the expiry time is bitpay's not bitcoin's
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
BitPay, being a conscientious bitcoin-related company, most likely removes all records of past transactions, including the temporary privatekeys to temporary reception addresses.
<alexgordon>
so if the transaction confirms, it will go to bitpay...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, again I say, it absolutely *can* go into the void.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: that would be pretty irresponsible of them
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but hopefully if this ever gets confirmed at all, I can get in contact with their support *before* their system wipes the shit, and get the transaction associated.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
shit.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
well, that's that. One confirmation.
<alexgordon>
that's good I think
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
depends on how you define good.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's not *easy*, but it's *reassuring*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If it'd never confirmed, I'd just have created a new BitPay invoice, and paid again.
<alexgordon>
it means the transaction is good...
<alexgordon>
it's just slow confirmations lol
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in fact, I'll probably do that anyway, and ask for a refund. Hm.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've spent all day learning about investment accounts, and rebalancing a portion thereof.
<alexgordon>
heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
why NOT spend the rest of the day learning about bitcoin news?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I've been out of the loop for ages
<alexgordon>
not sure i"m the best person :P
<alexgordon>
the whole PRISM thing distracted all the geeks
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<joelteon>
i've been performance optimizing my HASKELL program
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: what are you investing in
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
your HASKELL program, in all caps
<joelteon>
how crazy am i?????????????????????????
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon ⑊ how specific do you want?
<alexgordon>
err
<alexgordon>
it's midnight
<alexgordon>
so
<alexgordon>
I can handle details
<joelteon>
cabal does benchmarks automatically
<alexgordon>
but not fine details
<joelteon>
cabal does EVERYTHING automatically
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon ⑊ generally speaking: a balance of RETIs and large- and small-cap growth. Very little. that isn't equity.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
basically, very aggressive approach.
<alexgordon>
uh, what is a RETI
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm also considering pulling a *lot* of money out of one of the capital management firms that I've inherited it in; so far, I'm not very happy with them.
<alexgordon>
oh REIT
<alexgordon>
?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er, it's a vehicle that wraps up a bunch of some sort of real-estate ownings and then trades on the exchanges
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's basically a very liquid way of investing in real-estate.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yah
<alexgordon>
right
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've sat down with the various advisors and started asking for various forms of documentation to be forwarded to me, instead of having my money transparently handled for me.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'd rather learn and be in-the-know.
<alexgordon>
you have monetary advisors?
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
why am I not surprised
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
... you don't?
<alexgordon>
...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Where do you keep your money?
<alexgordon>
under my bed
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't imagine that you've got absolutely no savings at 29.
<alexgordon>
29?
<alexgordon>
you're thinking of jeannicolas!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Didn't we establish that you're between 24 and 29?
<alexgordon>
did you?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have my file on you somewhere ...
<alexgordon>
:D
<alexgordon>
all I've said is that I'm between 21 and 29
<joelteon>
you monster
<joelteon>
i'm between 0 and 100
<joelteon>
(inclusive)
<alexgordon>
also... I want to read this file.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nope. Eyes-only, and all that.
* alexgordon
snowdens it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*I* want to know what any of you *actually know* about *me*, actually.
<micahjohnston>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ o7
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
micahjohnston ⑊ can't talk much, probably. At least, not in-depth. Gotta get a plane ticket, and deal with this bitcoin fiasco.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: anyway, no I don't have enough money to have financial advisors
<alexgordon>
lol
<micahjohnston>
bitcoins?
<alexgordon>
don't you have to have at least half a million $ or so for that?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon ⑊ If you have anything more than twenty-five grand of assets in your life, you should have an investment account. /=
<alexgordon>
that's what happens if you let programmers and mathematicans build a system
<alexgordon>
complexity.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's not that complex
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, it's less complex than, say, Ruby
<alexgordon>
you think?
<alexgordon>
maybe if you include the stdlib
<alexgordon>
actually fuck that, ruby's parser alone is pretty complex
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
as measured by “How much I need to know about Ruby to meaningfully operate it” versus “How much I need to know about the financial system to meaningfully operate in it”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yes, exactly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and Ruby's parser fits in a single file.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
So, by most standards that aren't HURR DURR GREEN TRIANGLE GOES IN TRIANGULAR HOLE DURRR, it's fairly simple
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's not that it's that *complex*, it's just very *dynamic*.
<alexgordon>
I've been reading about all this stuff for about 3 years
<alexgordon>
still feel like I don't understand anything
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
tell me what you know that I don't :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(that's not sarcasm, I literally mean, teach me more things)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I like it when alexgordon teaches me things.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It makes me feel like he's useful.
<alexgordon>
lol while I can claim at least to know some stuff about maths
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
I KNOW I'm a total amateur at finance
<joelteon>
oh wow, performance regression for my library in ghc 7.6
Sgeo has joined #elliottcable
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I think my problem is that I'm hyper-risk averse
<alexgordon>
not really suited for investing :P
<alexgordon>
been doing too much crypto recently
<alexgordon>
makes you paranoid
<alexgordon>
"HOLY SHIT WHAT IF THEY TRY ALL NUMBERS UP TO 2^64"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yes, of course
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm on a very similar page.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've got a *lot* of money to invest, though. That allows me to rebalance quite a bit of it into more aggressive investements.
<alexgordon>
it's a nice problem to have
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
But believe me, my very second thought when I began rebalancing investements was “How much of my money do I want to retain in a FDIC-insured system?”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and my third was “Fuck the FDIC, what's even more reliable than that?”
<alexgordon>
nothing really :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, I'm probably going to balance a sizable lifestyle-sustaining quantity of my funds (at least the equivalent of 25-30k worth of savings) into Bitcoin, precious metals, or something else I consider more value-retaining than the federal government.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: the problem I have with these things is that they're proxies for inflation
<alexgordon>
proxies for money even
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<alexgordon>
real estate is nice because it's an actual living expense...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's also problematic because of its votility *within* the modern system.
<alexgordon>
so it *defines* inflation, at least partially
<alexgordon>
right
<alexgordon>
but metals and bitcoins are volatile too :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Sure, we're talking about financial safety *beyond* the extant system,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I also need something that holds value *within* the system fairly well.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It's no good if your “windfall against Failure of the System™” becomes valueless if the system succeeds.
<alexgordon>
you have to define what your risks are
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, the goal would be to find something with low volatility within the system, *and* with *some* form of value post-System.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so to speak.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
#paranoidjackassmodeGO
<alexgordon>
do you think the banks are going to collapse?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
And would prefer to *continue* to be well-off, despite imperfect system.
<alexgordon>
personally I worry about inflation more than anything
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can handle inflation. I have *very* reliably successful investments.
<alexgordon>
I don't think the entire system is going to collapse
<alexgordon>
if it does, invest in guns
<alexgordon>
and canned food
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5CI'd prefer to keep numbers to myself for obvious reasons, but just as an example ... even taking the big recession in the U.S. financial market into account, one particular investment account of mine managed %7.30 growth over the last 5 years
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the S&P 500 only shows %7.01 for the same period. You've got to admit that's impressive.
<alexgordon>
that doesn't sound like it's more than inflation though
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol I've already *been* investing in guns. Have you met me?
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: no!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and I'm not really *honestly* worried about some sort of silly anarchic collapse of The System
<alexgordon>
indeed
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I *am* worried about the United States' federal government's usability as a reliable store of value or windfall.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Look, my investment plans are oriented on fifty, seventy year growth. All of my plans are extremely long-term. I want to be building a dynasty here.
<alexgordon>
heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
And I don't for a hot minute believe that the U.S. is going to be relevant, or possibly even still *intact*, in seventy, a hundred years.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nor do I honestly believe any of us are going to see what's happening *when* it's happening, any more than most people see it *now.*
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, I want to have some level of planning, starting right now, for what I see as the “inevitable fall of the United States.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
planning to carry the *value* I inherit through those events, and out the other side, for my descendants.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
tell me that's not sensible.
<alexgordon>
descendants are overrated!
<alexgordon>
my goals are more modest. I just want to have approximately the same money in 20 years that I have now
<alexgordon>
(or more)
<alexgordon>
in terms of actual purchasing power
<alexgordon>
and to do that with as little risk as possible