sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<Varunram>
waxwing: I feel point 1 could be defended for PoS. If there is a case where the network is offline, when it comes back up, the "real" chain wouldn't the real chain be the chain that has the most number of validators?
<andytoshi>
no
<andytoshi>
that is not a verifiably measurable quantity
<waxwing>
yeah i always like to put it as something like "proof of work is self-verifying" (i guess more just "independently verifiable"); no variant of "stake" can have that property.
<Varunram>
pardon me if I'm wrong, in Casper, we have the validators voting on a particular chain, so we can simply find the net stake on a side and measure that?
<Varunram>
happy to move to another chan if off-topic
<waxwing>
PoS is kinda somewhat on topic here
<andytoshi>
yes in casper you won't have a fork in this case
<Varunram>
thanks, just wanted to be sure
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<andytoshi>
normally "proof of stake' doesn't refer to the degenerate case where the whole thing is setup such that nobody validates the chain except some foundation, and everyone else just checks their sigs
<andytoshi>
in which case you either have forks or stalls if a large segment of the signing set goes offline
<waxwing>
fixed identities, even if they change in some way over time, solves a lot of things right.
<andytoshi>
if you choose the stall option (as casper does) this is a DoS vector
<andytoshi>
but since this is already how ethereum works, it doesn't matter
<Varunram>
if there's a bad actor in those partitioned chain it could be worse I think
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<bsm117532>
The thing being "staked" in PoS is a number on a spreadsheet, and has no tie whatsoever to economic reality. Fiat is not destroyed in buying a staked coin, so there is zero net flow of value/cost into/out of the system. Then you maximize over a set whose sum has zero net external cost to anyone (only relative cost).
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