sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<roasbeef>
tromp_: one could enumerate the combinations (all 3), then construct transactions of the three possibilities (the aggregate key for ecah one) and give them to the respective parties
<bsm1175321>
sipa proposes to use a Merkle tree on the possible pubkeys.
<bsm1175321>
Which is good, because if you have to reveal all 3 of the pubkeys in your 2-of-3 example, you can trivially solve for the original pubkeys, (probably) nullifying any privacy gain by aggregation.
<bsm1175321>
"Last year we wanted to see backdoors that exclusively related to cryptocurrencies, and we didn’t get much of a response"
<bsm1175321>
Here are a few ideas:
<bsm1175321>
1. Create a bog-standard Satoshi-derived altcoin in which the creator secretly has control of all coins (maybe through a signature backdoor)
<bsm1175321>
2. Backdoor the PoW function so that the coin creator can create blocks with much lower work than other miners.
<bsm1175321>
3. Give explicit demonstration of one of the many flaws in PoS, allowing the coin creator to take control at a later time.
<bsm1175321>
4. Backdoor a Monero-derived altcoin so as to de-anonymize everyone.
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<bsm1175321>
(or zcash)
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<bsm1175321>
5. Create a crypto-currency using a new elliptic curve that appears random, but has a back door following the EC_DRBG fiasco (e.g. parameters which can be justified to be "random" by giving a RNG and a seed but which have a backdoor). For computational tractability, a small prime order would be advisable...
<bsm1175321>
6. Create a crypto-currency involving any half-cocked bizarre PKI that no one has ever seen before, but has a backdoor. (new/novel/original = good marketing)
<sipa>
a crypto-currency with a PKI? :o
<bsm1175321>
Eh...I mean just asymmetric crypto
<bsm1175321>
You all have until July 1. Now GO!!! (and if you find any of the above brain dump interesting, ping me, I might help ;-)
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<bsm1175321>
Also if this contest has any interesting cryptocurrency-related entrants, I'm going to try to hire you. ;-)
<phantomcircuit>
bsm1175321, why bother with that im pretty sure you coul just build a super complicated scripting system and then build an even more complicated programming language for it
<phantomcircuit>
then maybe make it worse by letting scripts call each other or something crazy
<phantomcircuit>
...
<bsm1175321>
phantomcircuit: I see what you did there...
<phantomcircuit>
wasn't really going for subtle ;)
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<bsm1175321>
Indeed, it's old news in this community but taking advantage of contract re-entrancy in an Ethereum-derived coin would be a reasonable way to go
<bsm1175321>
phantomcircuit: hey, don't build a complicated programming language. You need at least four.
<bsm1175321>
And mask differences between apparently equivalent implementations it the different languages...
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<Eliel>
this current hard fork uncertainty and especially the motivations behind it are having me wonder if having a proof of stake component in the mining process would stabilize things politically.
<Eliel>
that should pretty effectively remove the miner illusion that they can decide things by themselves.
<Eliel>
and has some potential for also becoming a mechanism for flexible community set blocksize limit.
<Taek>
proof-of-stake increases the surface area
<Taek>
even if it's a minor component to consensus, it's a point of failure
<Taek>
even ignoring the other problems, one thing I really don't like about stake based systems is that there is no way to have a resource war
<Eliel>
well, the failure mode it would have is comparable to the current situation
<Taek>
in PoW, you can outmatch a 51% miner by going and building stuff
<Taek>
in PoS, you can't outmatch a 51% staker ever
<Taek>
if they are refusing to sell, then that's the end of the story
<Eliel>
For example if you require 5 randomly selected stakeholder signatures per block, you can make the stake percentage required for 51% attack to be much closer to 95%
<da2ce7>
is there an proposal of a 'anti-replay' op-code that allows you to insert a checkpoint hash into your transaction.... Tho, that wouldn't stop the replay on the 'other' chain.
<da2ce7>
The only way I know how to do a effective anti-replay is include a input from a coin-base transaction of the chain you wish it only to be included upon.
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<da2ce7>
I suppose you could soft fork a requirement that each block requires hundreds of special 1 satoshi outputs (from the block reward); then allow people to include these inputs in their transactions.
<da2ce7>
for example, soft for so that there should be 10k 1 satoshi outputs, if under the limit, then a block must include at-least 100 new outputs.
<da2ce7>
1 satoshi outputs being a special type of (anyone can spend).
<kanzure>
did you consider the replace-by-fee method?
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<da2ce7>
kanzure, sorry, I don't know of this method, (at least not by name).
<da2ce7>
kanzure, that is only works because of the diff relay settings for BU and Bitcoin. There is no consensus guarantee.
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<Eliel>
da2ce7: true, it's not guaranteed to work, but if you're yourself the recipient, a slight chance of failure is not a big problem.
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<da2ce7>
Eliel, I suppose the really scary thing is how to do relay protection for pre-signed transactions. In this mess you just have to have send to your-self a few times (and maybe with an automated RBF feature).
<Eliel>
da2ce7: a pre-fork presigned transaction is already ambiguous in that respect...
<Eliel>
I'm thinking that logically, they ought to be included in both chains.
<da2ce7>
Yeah... maybe it in theory 'is' on both chains,.
<da2ce7>
so, the transaction pool waiting to be included in blocks when the fork happens is stuffed.
<da2ce7>
and because we don't have a flag-day to warn people about. it is gonna be messy.
<da2ce7>
It could be an idea to group a replay-protection soft-fork with the SegWit soft-fork. Then we can activate it with a UASF.
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<MaxSan>
nice
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