sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<sn0wmonster>
would it be fair to call a n-of-p escrow arrangement between people that are all escrow agents depositing to the same account to cover their liabilities against fraud a "federated" solution or a "decentralized" solution?
<sn0wmonster>
example: if there are 6 escrow agents, none of them are related to each other, except that they all use the same software and operate their escrow services on the same network/site. they provide an escrow for a decentralized service (lets say IRC or anything at all that fits the example),
<sn0wmonster>
and since trust alone doesn't prevent fraud, you require each one to deposit double the amount that they would be escrowing at any given time (2 BTC must be present in their deposits for them to be allowed to accept an escrow job of 1 BTC),
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<sn0wmonster>
if you have all the escrow agents need to agree on releasing a single agent's deposit (when they are through providing the services to the network), or just guarantee its safety in the meantime by trusting the group of agents not to act against a single agent, would that be considered a federated or decentralized approach to escrow?
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<Taek>
sn0wmonster: it is decentralized, but it's not the same sort of decentralized that Bitcoin is
<Taek>
the big difference between the two is that Bitcoin is trustless - no amount of collusion in Bitcoin (including 51% attacks) can make you spend coins
<Taek>
the best they can do is reverse the history where you received the coins
<Taek>
but to do that they have to reverse a LOT of history
<Taek>
but the escrow agents in your example can basically do whatever they want if they all agree
<sn0wmonster>
correct. is there a way to mitigate that that doesn't involve a blockchain?
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<Taek>
not that I know of, though maybe
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<Taek>
if the escrow follows a strict set of rules on how money can be moved around and they publish a set of signatures exposing the full history, you could at least produce fraud proofs
<Taek>
and then everyone would know that the escrow is garbage
<waxwing>
seems like another key cancellation thing, reminiscent of the problem with naive schnorr aggregation
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<nickler>
Exactly, that's the key idea. The rest is mostly solving more or less boring equations.
<waxwing>
on the bright side, i found out a bit about how RingCT works :) never got round to it before.
<waxwing>
it's actually kind of a neat intuition they have there: to get a signature on P1 or P2, wrap one schnorr sig inside another: from K = sG +H(K)P, they go to K = sG + H(s2G +H(K)P2)P1
<waxwing>
nickler: are the pubkeys referred to here as in CT, i.e. corresponding to digits, and so all fixed in advance?