sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<kanzure_>
are we using #bitcoin-workshops
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<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> i think mimble wimble doesn't provide any better scalability or privacy than say
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> bitcoin with utxo commitments in the blocks
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> and miners are asked to forget history
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> it has similar properties, just by checking the UTXO set + an SPV proof you can be sure about the amount of work, and that there is no inflation, and you don't necessarliy get to see any of the history
<kanzure>
there's some small block history growth stuff
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> i know, im reading that, this is a response to reaidng that transcript :slightly_smiling_face:
<cjd>
hmm if you're right then UTXO set only is actually cheaper than MW because MW requires that you keep these empty-string-sigs around forever
<cjd>
but MW is private and fungible
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<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> it's "private" because you are hoping miners forget history and transactions they saw, and because you are deciding to be satisfied checking only "partial" correctness of the chain (i.e., that there is no inflation, but not necessarly checking that all the signatures are valid and coins haven't been stolen)
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> i.e. it's only private if you are making some extra assumptions, not because the protocol brings it
<cjd>
yeah but it's not private because you sit there with a node and collect transactions
<cjd>
everyone needs to verify the block when it's mined so you need to send everyone the transactions that moment
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<amiller>
right, so this is true of both UTXO-bitcoin and MW
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<cjd>
when you get a new block in MW land, all transactions in that block have already been merged into a "ring"
<amiller>
if the transactions propagated around the P2P network before being mined, then everyone already saw them
<amiller>
you can forget them shortly after, but what difference does that make
<cjd>
I don't propigate your transaction, I merge it with whatever I have in memory and propigate the result
<cjd>
Part of an argument to the European Commission about why they should fund research around End-to-End Encryption and Zero Knowledge Cloud Services
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> if our memory pools are similar
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> and i send you a "compressd block" or hwatever with one new tx output
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> and 1 new txinput
<uiuc-slack3>
<amiller> then that mapping is pretty clear right
<cjd>
right
<cjd>
if there was a way to merge transactions (in a single block) then MW and your scheme would be equivilant I think
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