#bitcoin-wizards on 2015-09-23 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-06-27 08:24 wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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06:27 * zmanian gmaxwell: I have access to an IAR compiler. Will try to get an ARM32 build up.

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12:35 <azariah> gmaxwell: not sure being gcc targetable really is a big benefit for a smart contract VM. given the cost of blockchain verification of executions, I doubt many would want to directly port existing programs.

12:36 <azariah> most use cases of smart contracts require lot's of fluff around the actual contract - GUIs, centralized user handling, etc. offloading only the core consensus critical parts to the smart contract code. for such use cases rewriting a program to a new VM is probably the lesser effort

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12:46 <azariah> the consensus bugs / sec vulns found in the Ethereum VM, both prior to and after it's launch, could be a interesting case study with regards to what is hard to get consensus on in a smart contract VM

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12:48 <azariah> most of their consensus issues where around VM exceptions & when state transitions affected the life cycle of contracts (contract creation, deletion)

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13:00 <jgarzik> azariah, It's not about porting existing programs

13:00 <jgarzik> azariah, it's about having an existing toolchain ecosystem. You can pick your favorite programming language, and have existing debuggers profilers and more to use.

13:01 <jgarzik> The alternative is reinventing all that stuff.. poorly

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14:29 <jgarzik> kanzure, Did the Big Pile O Ideas ever get archived into a single link, however unsorted?

14:30 <kanzure> jgarzik: at the moment there is http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml

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14:30 <kanzure> jgarzik: i am having trouble figuring out how to organize the index, struggling with signal/noise theoretical concerns.

14:31 <kanzure> jgarzik: advice appreciated

14:32 <jgarzik> kanzure, I don't see my IRC idea dump :)

14:32 <jgarzik> kanzure, IM chain for example

14:32 <kanzure> i have your dump stored somewhere else

14:32 <jgarzik> gah! Then it's not a single link. :)

14:32 <kanzure> i really do need help figuring out correct format and how to sort signal/noise on this project, otherwise it will just be list of 2000 things and nobody will use it.

14:33 <jgarzik> kanzure, I disagree that organization should be a blocker

14:34 <kanzure> elaborate plz?

14:34 <jgarzik> kanzure, release early, release often. rapidly iterate.

14:34 <jgarzik> kanzure, get everything into a single link that is Ctrl-F searchable

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14:34 <jgarzik> the crowd can help take it from there

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14:43 <kanzure> jgarzik: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/big-pile.txt

14:43 <kanzure> now show me the crowd's magic.

14:45 <zooko> Could you make it hyperlinkable to subsets? Perhaps by adding an anchor to each line or each section?

14:45 <kanzure> i am not convined that a random scratchpad is a good starting point for this

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14:51 <bsm1175321> If I throw up a MediaWiki, will some of you start pushing this stuff into it?

14:53 <kanzure> well i can put it on a wiki if that will convince you to contribute.... http://diyhpl.us/wiki/bitcoin/big-pile/

14:53 <kanzure> also accessible here: https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/blob/master/bitcoin/big-pile.mdwn

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14:54 <bsm1175321> kanzure do you want to wiki-fy this?

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14:56 <kanzure> not at the moment, it would be nice if someone else would

14:57 <bsm1175321> Your list is overwhelming.

14:57 <kanzure> (.mdwn is markdown, theoretically)

14:57 <kanzure> yes well jgarzik was pushing me for "release early" so there you go

14:57 <bsm1175321> I almost want to write a script to parse it...

14:58 <kanzure> for the bookmarks you can just use a yaml parser, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/bitcoin-selected-bookmarks.2015-09-09.yaml

14:59 <kanzure> the yaml format there is used by a bookmarking tool that i'm fond of, https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch

15:00 <bsm1175321> I see

15:01 <kanzure> ((yaml is best analogized as a superset of json))

15:02 <bsm1175321> I'm going to sit here and be overwhelmed for a little while longer. But thinking...

15:02 <kanzure> "I disagree that organization should be a blocker" :-)

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16:08 <kanzure> btcdrak: way ahead of you, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011158.html

16:10 <btcdrak> LOL

16:10 <btcdrak> kanzure: looks like we pressed send at almost the same time haha

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21:07 <gmaxwell> Does anyone have access to a latest generation amd opteron that they could run the libsecp256k1 benchmarks on?

21:08 <nsh> shame no-one implemented ctcp cpuinfo

21:08 <nsh> (no, sorry; will ask about)

21:10 <gmaxwell> I'm trying to figure out what part yields the greatest _verify per dollar and _verify per part right now. :)

21:10 <gmaxwell> maybe I should make a little test collection script that runs the benchmark and submits its result and cpuinfo someplace. :)

21:11 <nsh> someone available has a ' model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1381 '

21:11 <nsh> unsure if this is latest generation

21:14 <gmaxwell> Alas, thats pre bulldozer, so pretty different from the most recent arch. I think I have one of roughtly that generation available.

21:14 <nsh> ah, shame

21:15 <nsh> maybe if you write them a nice email...

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21:19 <kanzure> maaku: re: near blocks, weak blocks, etc., i see how share chain is related but not sure about partial blocks. can't find anything. plz show.

21:20 <kanzure> (re: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m2wpf/bitcoindev_weak_block_thoughts/cvbrmjv )

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21:26 <maaku> kanzure: interesting. i've seen and used the term myself in conversation, but google results and log greps are confirming your result

21:29 <nsh> well, there was that one timeline where the blockchain became self-aware and nearly destroyed all human civilisation and we had to retrocausally elide all the theory that immanentised the cryptoeschaton

21:29 <nsh> so maybe you're remembering sideways or something

21:32 <maaku> nsh: must be it

21:33 * maaku remembers to go work on his skynet branch

21:33 * nsh nods

21:33 <nsh> hehe

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21:38 <TD-Linux> gmaxwell, is ECC ram a requirement? if not I think the consumer ones would be even better

21:39 <gmaxwell> I'm interested only in ECC capable parts; but others might not be.. knowing how well a particular microarchitecture does should generally well enough.

21:39 <gmaxwell> I just don't have any idea how well they perform.. the current generation intel atom stuff is much slower than you'd expect.

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