#bitcoin-wizards on 2015-09-28 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-06-27 08:24 wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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02:48 <prosodyC> (<e) )

02:57 <prosodyC> (. https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/hnzqGv4C/.

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07:26 <rusty> Dumb schnorr question: uses a different pubkey from ECDSA signatures, right?

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07:40 <gmaxwell> rusty: same pubkeys.

07:40 <rusty> gmaxwell: oh, I'm clearly confused then. So you generate the priv and pub keys the same as normal?

07:47 <rusty> gmaxwell: Hmm, wikipedia describes key gen for Schnorr as pub = g^priv. And for ECDSA id describes pub = priv x G.

07:50 <rusty> I took that to mean they are different, but looking at libsecp256k1, the lack of separate keygen functions for schnorr makes it pretty clear.

07:50 <nsh> heh

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17:31 <roasbeef> rusty: yeh, they're equivalent. THe wikipedia article uses multiplicative notation, while when speaking of ECC we typically use additive notation (with scalars being lowercase, and group elements being uppercase)

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17:33 <arubi> I think the confusion was with the 'x' vs '^' notation? at least for me it was until now

17:35 <arubi> er.. maybe not. I'm already too deep into so many tangents and I'm already getting lost in some..

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17:36 <Mixlez> ^ implies discrete logarithm (raise to power, modulo N), x implies elliptic discrete logarithm (ECC multiplication)

17:38 <arubi> thanks Mixlez. I see where my confusion lies now.

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20:02 <MRL-Relay> [shen] what's the deal with this "Compact CT" I've heard on reddit was broken.. is there a description somewhere?

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20:03 <kanzure> MRL-Relay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.0

20:03 <kanzure> er, shen^

20:04 <MRL-Relay> [shen] thanks :)

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20:14 <nsh> broken?

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20:21 <MRL-Relay> [shen] hmm it looks like : "Unfortunately, Andrew Poelstra was able to break the cryptosystem for this scheme's range-proofs. " is one of the comments on that thread, so I assume that is what they were reffering to

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21:07 <maaku> it remains to be seen if it will hold up to review

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21:30 <nsh> guys

21:30 <nsh> who will write [i'm looking at you kanzure] a pdf.js patch that automatically adds dates to 'academic papers'

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21:31 <nsh> or in this instance, tell me when https://www.cs.umd.edu/~elaine/docs/permacoin.pdf was written

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21:31 <nsh> even google scholar gives different dates depending on where it's found the paper

21:32 <phantomcircuit> nsh, it would be oh so nice if it became standard practice to put the date of publication in papers

21:32 <nsh> well, a pdj.js patch could, you know, attest to the first viewing of a version of a paper

21:32 <nsh> and add that date into the text

21:32 <nsh> with the science

21:32 <nsh> that we all sit here pontificating about

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21:33 <nsh> but i'm not doing it because my dog ate the box where i keep the thing that means i do actual stuff to improve the world

21:33 <nsh> but there's nothing stopping anyone who hasn't taken solemn vows of non-productivity from fixing this problem

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21:35 <nsh> ]PORs: Proofs of Retrievability for Large Files - Ari Juels is cited 1059 times

21:36 <nsh> i guess these numbers don't really mean much, coming from the google school of RNG corpus statistics

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21:38 <Ylbam> Does anybody here know this guy? http://www.cs.umd.edu/~wangxiao/

21:38 <Ylbam> Personaly I mean

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21:41 <amiller> Ylbam, yeah

21:42 <Ylbam> Ah great, could he be invested in crypto currencies?

21:42 <amiller> uh, that would surprise me, but who knows, why?

21:43 <Ylbam> ah, I wonder if he could have been working on primecoin some time ago

21:44 <Ylbam> I remember seeing a similar name on the original version of the primecoin whitepaper (removed since)

21:45 <Ylbam> Do you work with him?

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21:47 <amiller> Ylbam, yup, we work in the same lab at umd

21:48 <nsh> amiller, how hard would it be to implement permacoin in a sidechain, at PoC level at least?

21:48 <nsh> we are just discussing options for archiving the internet archive in another castle

21:49 <nsh> oh, the incentive model requires that privkeys are valueable, and therefore [at this point at least] btc or btc-pegged

21:51 <nsh> i don't know if latency cost scaling can be modelled for adaptive difficulty control as easily as hashrate

21:51 <amiller> yeah, today i'd rather decouple permacoin from having to be an "altcoin" on its own, i'd rather have a smart contract system of some kind that just assigned portions of the dataset to people and would pay them to respond periodically with challenges

21:51 <amiller> that could be done with a sidechain i guess

21:52 * nsh nods

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21:52 <amiller> i've been trying to get sidechains alpha to run for a couple of weeks and haven't been able to get it working yet

21:52 <nsh> oh dear; i succeeded a while back but that laptop got screensmashed. will have another go soon

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21:53 <amiller> lmk when you do!

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21:54 * nsh nods

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