apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.0; 2.0.0-p353; 1.9.3-p484: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || RubyConf 2013 at http://www.justin.tv/confreaks
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<drbrain> |jemc|: it's near impossible to test garbage collection
<|jemc|> yeah, that's how it seems...
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<|jemc|> I can make it work under certain circumstances, but it's really precarious
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<|jemc|> including not working in tests back to back
<|jemc|> >_<
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<drbrain> you can test that the object is wrapped by a WeakRef, probably your best bet
<|jemc|> I'm trying to test that my library properly handles an invalidated weakref
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<|jemc|> so I suppose the best I can do is make a mock to replace it
<|jemc|> that will raise the right exception as if it was an invalidated weakref
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<drbrain> yeah
<|jemc|> (it holds a bunch of weakrefs to Procs in a central array, and I want it to purge them as they become invalidated)
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<|jemc|> be back soon. commute.
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<centrx> I see...
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<postmodern> anyone know of a library to assist in stubbing TCPSocket?
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<drbrain> postmodern: I use Object
<postmodern> drbrain, that works for when you want to stub something simple
<postmodern> drbrain, but was hoping there was a library to stub complex TCP/SSL sessions
<drbrain> IO.pipe
<drbrain> ?
<postmodern> drbrain, ah that could work
<drbrain> or StringIO?
<postmodern> drbrain, problem with IO objects is that they do not provide BasicSocket methods
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<drbrain> def fixes that :D
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<drbrain> or subclasses, if you want to get fancy
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<centrx> .
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<centrx> micalexander, Is there a problem?
<micalexander> centrx: no wy?
<micalexander> why?
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<centrx> You keep quitting and rejoining
<micalexander> hold on I think my comp is trippin
<centrx> Twelve times!
<micalexander> centrx:
<centrx> I just hope you are okay
<micalexander> dont you hate it when u have a bluetooth keyboard in your bag thats not turned off?
<micalexander> centrx: thx
<centrx> Those Bluetooths are going to take over everything
<micalexander> ha
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<yuko7> hi
<yuko7> what happen if thered a method def hoola and another def hoola(arg), are they considered different methods or one overwrite the others
<yuko7> because of the arg
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<pipecloud> yuko7: Try.
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<whitequark> yuko7: ruby doesn't have method overloading
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<yuko7> whitequark: thanks
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<yuko7> can an instance variable defined in an eigenclass be accessible in the class of the eigenclass
<pipecloud> The class of the eigenclass is class, so no.
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<whitequark> >> class A; end; A.class.class
<eval-in> whitequark => Class (https://eval.in/98874)
<whitequark> >> class A; end; class << (class << A; self; end); self; end
<eval-in> whitequark => #<Class:#<Class:A>> (https://eval.in/98875)
<whitequark> not quite.
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<pipecloud> whitequark: So the class of an eigenclass is not Class?
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<whitequark> hrm
<whitequark> eigenclass of eigenclass is not Class
<pipecloud> Oh, I meant class of eigenclass.
<whitequark> >> class A; end; (class << A; self; end).class
<eval-in> whitequark => Class (https://eval.in/98877)
<whitequark> class of eigenclass, evidently, is.
<pipecloud> Makes sense.
<centrx> Where is the << for class << self defined
<centrx> What is that operator
<whitequark> it's not an operator, it's special syntax for executing code in the context of eigenclass
<Lewix> yuko7: the class of the eigenclass is Class
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<Lewix> >> class A; end; class << self; self.class; end
<eval-in> Lewix => Class (https://eval.in/98880)
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<yuko7> pipecloud: whitequark Lewix , i meant -
<yuko7> can an instance variable defined in an eigenclass be accessible in the class A
<yuko7> (using the last example)
<pipecloud> yuko7: Is the eigenclass you speak of the eigenclass of class A?
<whitequark> instance variables are only accessible in instances of the class and nowhere else
<yuko7> yes mr pipecloud
<pipecloud> yuko7: Yes, but only through instance_variable_get
<pipecloud> Which I suggest you not do.
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<pipecloud> Well, I bet you could do it through different forms of eval too.
<pipecloud> But let's not be silly.
<yuko7> thanks
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<zenspider> anyone in NYC with a couch to spare for a friend in need?
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<yuko7> http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Module.html#method-i-define_method -> define_method also accept strings, not only symbols
<Lewix> zenspider: airbnb?
<pipecloud> yuko7: And?
<yuko7> pipecloud: it's not specified in the doc
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<pipecloud> yuko7: Ah I see. You could contribute that change to ruby/ruby
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<yuko7> Lewix:
<yuko7> wrong number of arg (0 for 1)
<pipecloud> yuko7: Because.
<pipecloud> yuko7: Your local variable or method name is misleading if you think Array#values is a thing.
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<yuko7> pipecloud: array is actually a hash
<pipecloud> yuko7: So call it string because that's more fun!
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<Lewix> yuko7: Let me guess, it works when you remove line 2 and 6 , right?
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<yuko7> Lewix: yes! but i want class methods
<Lewix> yuko7: use define_singleton_method instead
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<pipecloud> Lewix: Why not just define a method within the eigen class?
<pipecloud> eigenclass*
<pipecloud> It seems like a syntactic sugar that hides the fact that you're putting a method on a class object somewhere.
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<Lewix> pipecloud: it is defined within the eigenclass
<pipecloud> Lewix: Yeah, I know how it's implemented.
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<pipecloud> It just seems to hide what it does. A sugar, nothing more.
<Lewix> pipecloud: I was answering your question - 22:34 pipecloud: Lewix: Why not just define a method within the eigen class?
<Lewix> pipecloud: so what's the problem?
<pipecloud> Lewix: What I meant was "Why not just actually write the code that does that?"
<pipecloud> I just don't see the value in the sugar, I suppose.
<Lewix> pipecloud: less headaches? conciseness ?
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<Lewix> pipecloud: feel free to suggest what you have in mind then
<pipecloud> def self.method_name; end, or class << self; def method_name; end; end
<pipecloud> I usually use class << self when I'm doing more than method definitions though.
<yuko7> Lewix: thanks! its working now
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<yuko7> pipecloud: i tried its not working in a block
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<pipecloud> yuko7: I can't help "I tried".
<yuko7> pipecloud: im just saying your method does not work in a block
<pipecloud> yuko7: I'm just saying that your code is broken and I can't help without seeing it. :)
<pipecloud> You're most likely doing it wrong.
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<Lewix> pipecloud: class<< self in a block is not the class you expect
<pipecloud> Lewix: Oh his gist? No, I know it isn't.
<Lewix> pipecloud: so what's your whole point, you're confusing - just say what you would do then
<pipecloud> Lewix: What I'd probably do to make it not suck while not using define_singleton_method is to lamely grab the class object and assign it to a variable, probably local, and then do klass.send(:define_method, method)
<Senjai> Lewix: Putting that in a block changes what self is, so you'd be defining arbitrarily onto whatever the context is at the time the block is executed
<pipecloud> I think he knows.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Why would you do Klass.send(:define_method, method)?
<pipecloud> Senjai: Because I just don't like the syntactic sugar of define_singleton_method, I guess.
<Lewix> pipecloud: I don't see the whole point of doing that. I prefer my suggestion
<Senjai> pipecloud: Both are ugly as hell
<pipecloud> Lewix: I can see why you would.
<pipecloud> Senjai: It's true.
<Senjai> It's much nicer to make a formal decorator, and open up the class in a seperate file.
<Senjai> MyClass.class_eval { .. do stuff .. }
<pipecloud> Lewix: I'm tainted by having to write code that those newer must understand easily. That includes the object model parts.
<pipecloud> Senjai: But what if the class isn't known at runtime?
<Senjai> pipecloud: use get_const
<pipecloud> I mean, not all metaprogramming is just to save on typing.
<pipecloud> Senjai: How do you know what to pass get_const?
<Senjai> err
<pipecloud> it's const_get
<Senjai> const_get
<pipecloud> Senjai: define_singleton_method is neat enough.
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<pipecloud> Lewix: It's definitely a taste thing.
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<pipecloud> Senjai: Alternatively I could use extend instead of send.
<pipecloud> publicmethodsrite
<Senjai> pipecloud: Firstly, I would use active support for these things because it is awesome. "MyClass".constantize.class_eval do
<pipecloud> Senjai: No.
<Lewix> Senjai: hmm seems like too much for so little
<pipecloud> If you don't know what the class object is, even if it points to a constant, how can you materialize it?
<Senjai> pipecloud: What is the context of this issue?
<Senjai> What "do" you have
<pipecloud> Senjai: someone wanting to know how to define methods on the eigenclass of a class.
<Lewix> Senjai: scroll up
<Senjai> So you must know or have access to the class..
<Senjai> Or will eventually
<Senjai> Still need context.
<pipecloud> I think my point is that if you have access to the class, you can iterate over the method names and define methods in that class by passing define_method to the class object itself.
<Senjai> "My method receives an instance of a class as it's argument. Given this instance, I wish to define method x on the eigenclass of that instance"
<Senjai> ^ Is context
<pipecloud> Senjai: Scroll up to the first gist. :)
<pipecloud> Mine depends on somehow having the class object in hand to send methods to.
<Senjai> Oh dear that isn't nice at all
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<Senjai> Well firstly, that code shouldn't exist, there most certainly is a better solution to whatever that's trying to solve
<pipecloud> The cleanest looking is define_singleton_method, I just don't like the name of that method.
<pipecloud> Senjai: That's a matter of taste preferences toward or against metaprogramming.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Right, I'd agree, in that case, but the code should not exist :P
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<pipecloud> He's defining scope-like class methods on a class.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Right, but there are actual scopes for that.
<pipecloud> Lewix: I feel like define_singleton_method is a bit of a misnomer.
<pipecloud> Senjai: I don't use scopes.
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<pipecloud> I use class methods that return chainable objects.
<pipecloud> Preference thing.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Right
<pipecloud> Senjai: He could be in some kind of hell where he doesn't know the class he's going to be defining those methods on at write time. One can only hope that isn't the case.
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<Senjai> but where would you get in a case where you have an array of things, and you need to create a scope for every item in that array on an object?
<Senjai> Given that the scope doesn't hide any complexity (really) and is more unreadable
<pipecloud> When you know that an object must have a scope for each of a certain known list of things, but don't know the object at write time?
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<pipecloud> Senjai: It's a DSL that I don't willingly accept.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Right, I don't accept it either, and thus I think it shouldn't exist :P
<pipecloud> Senjai: You don't like scopes either? :D
<Senjai> pipecloud: Scopes are needed for complex queries and hiding complexity. But they're used way too often for the wrog things
<Senjai> ActiveRecord isn't perfect, so yea we use them at work, but only to hide complexity.
<pipecloud> Senjai: No they're not.
<pipecloud> You can make a scope equivalent class method easily.
<Senjai> They are pretty damn close to the same thing iirc
<pipecloud> I don't litter my objects with activerecordian scope DSL shit.
<pipecloud> The only benefit to using scopes is when you don't trust others to write methods that return always chainable objects.
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<Senjai> pipecloud: Right, but you make a class method, that returns a chainable object (which is just anything that is an ActiveRecord::Relation)
<Senjai> It's a scope
<Senjai> whether you call it one or not, that's the pattern
<pipecloud> Until that day, I write ruby.
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<Lewix> pipecloud: ya preference thing but scope are eager loaded
<pipecloud> Lewix: 'eager loaded' in what way? They're lambdas, they don't eager load.
<pipecloud> They do the opposite. They're lazy.
<Senjai> Lewix: Nope, they lazy
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<Senjai> Lewix: Proof: def func; lalala; end (no error)
<Senjai> then you call the func :)
<Lewix> I prefer not to use scope either - i don't have good reasons why
<Lewix> yes lazy
<pipecloud> Let me blow your mind: You can write class methods that are chainable whose return objects are lazily loaded.
<Senjai> pipecloud: Define chainable?
<pipecloud> Senjai: They return objects that are built like criterion, chainable to form some expression that can be extended and modified by the presence or lack of presence of other criterion.
<Senjai> What does a scope have to do with the return value of anything
<pipecloud> In the case of scopes, chainable with activerecord and activerelation methods.
<Senjai> Right
<Senjai> Well
<Lewix> but if you do not use lambda
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<Lewix> it's evaluated when the class is loaded
<pipecloud> Senjai: They return chainable objects that you can further extend the criterion with more of the same kind of object.
<Senjai> Hello.where(..stuff..) is just as chainable as scope :stuff ->(){Hello.where(..stuff..)} and def self.stuff; Hello....; end
<Senjai> And anything is chainable
<pipecloud> Senjai: It's chainable in that you can continue sending messages to the receiver of the last message send.
<Senjai> Hellow.where(..stuff..).first.to_s.class.superclass
<Senjai> pipecloud: You're not making sense
<Senjai> You're talking about tap?
<pipecloud> Senjai: I think you know what I'm explaining.
<pipecloud> No, why would I be talking about tap?
<Senjai> pipecloud: Because I have no idea how your saying a scope and a class method are different in what they "return"
<pipecloud> They always return activerecord or activerelation objects. That's really all scopes do is always return something activesomething.
<Senjai> so I'm just wildly guessing
<pipecloud> Senjai: A class method returns anything you damn well want it to.
<Senjai> I can make a scope not return an AR:Rel
<pipecloud> I'm skeptical.
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<whitequark> scope maps simply to a class method definition
<whitequark> exactly
<Senjai> pipecloud: just about to paste that
<pipecloud> It always returns a scope.
<pipecloud> I don't think you can make it not return a scope, though you can make calling that scope return things.
<pipecloud> I'm not creative enough with it while I'm cooking.
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<Senjai> pipecloud: Actually, it evaluates the block in the context of scoping.
* pipecloud is making tacos and whitequark is invited!
<pipecloud> Senjai: And returns the scope.
<whitequark> heh
<pipecloud> It always returns the scope.
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<Senjai> pipecloud: http://bit.ly/MwHqgc
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<Senjai> pipecloud: No, scoping just makes sure any queries are scoped, you can still return stuff from the block
<Senjai> pipecloud: scope :thing ->(){ "Hello World"}
<Senjai> try it
<pipecloud> You forgot the comma.
<pipecloud> Senjai: Ah I see! Then why the fuck does anyone use scopes? :(
<pipecloud> whitequark: Am I allowed to say 'fuck' here?
<Senjai> pipecloud: They do. At least at my work they're used
<pipecloud> Senjai: I silently refactor scopes at work after the author has moved on.
<pipecloud> Mostly because some of my coworkers drink the rails kool-aid a little too readily.
<Senjai> It's just another way to define class methods, with extra juice added for AR::Rel, my issue with them is that newbies use them when they think its easier to do it instead of def self.method
<Senjai> or class << self
<pipecloud> I agree.
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<Senjai> Not only that, it couples any logic to ActiveRecord.... and coupling when you don't have to is bad
<Senjai> ergo
<Senjai> scopes should only be used when returning an active record relation, or building complex query logic with active record
<Senjai> Subqueries and hhe like
<pipecloud> However, I would use it if it were more of a common interface, like Queue.
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<Senjai> def self.method is my preference, but I don't nag at class << self.
<pipecloud> I use def self.method when I'm only defining methods. I use class << self when I'm doing other things.
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<Senjai> self.method is just the most obvious and most readable for me, class << self is likewise, but if you're defining a large number of methods, sometimes you may need to move around the file to determine if its a class method or not
<pipecloud> I also use instance_eval and class_eval mostly in modules.
<pipecloud> Senjai: It's also useful when you're grouping private methods together.
<Senjai> I rarely use instance_eval. Almost only in a modules included definition
<whitequark> pipecloud: I guess? people do that.
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<pipecloud> whitequark: I forget which crappy ruby channel forbids it. :D
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<Senjai> TLDR: Don't use scopes if you don't have to, if you're building an ActiveRecord::Relation it's considered best practice and gives you extra quirks
<Senjai> But you can do the same thing in a class method if you want to
<pipecloud> And if you feel as if you want to impress me, never use scopes.
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<pipecloud> I'm all, "This guy knows what's up!"
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<Senjai> I prefer not to, for coupling
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<Senjai> unless its just ActiveRecordClass.query_building_stuff.here_you_go
<pipecloud> Senjai: I think it's just like concerns, pushing more of their opinions down into your applications.
<pipecloud> Like autoloading as well. :(
* pipecloud doesn't like autoloading :(
<Senjai> Concerns don't need to be a thing, callbacks shouldn't be a thing on ActiveRecord models
<Senjai> they are because we're lazy
<pipecloud> ^
<pipecloud> It's like you're my special friend I never knew about!
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<pipecloud> Senjai: It's because side effects regardless of context are omgamaziiing, right. :(*
<pipecloud> I'm still convinced that controller callbacks are a fuck you to rack middleware.
<Senjai> I just want to be able to create a Something without going into dbconsole
<Senjai> The application should use a SomethingFactory to make Somethings, and callbacks should be on that
<Senjai> Something should just be a model of the data in the db, and how to access it
<Senjai> But thats a lot of work so we don't do that in real life
<pipecloud> I don't know if you need callbacks ever. I just encapsulate behaviours into objects.
<pipecloud> People call them 'service objects', which is a misnomer for a behaviour object, which is a misnomer for an encapsulation of behaviour and the data that goes along with it.
<Senjai> If you seperate Something from It's factory, you can switch Somethings for OtherThings dead easily if it impliments the same API
<pipecloud> ThingDoers are great!
<Senjai> I have to watch movies with the lady, good convos
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<pipecloud> Senjai: My condolences, get some!
<pipecloud> Get some popcorn, I mean.
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<yorickpeterse> how do you do fellow kids?
<rolfb> yorickpeterse: why would you even?
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<rolfb> yorickpeterse: bad joke is bad. good morning :-)
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<yorickpeterse> eh?
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<matti> :)
<matti> Mr Peterse, howdy.
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<yorickpeterse> so apparently I tripped off bosswoman by changing into sports pants at the office
<yorickpeterse> then CTO-man pushed her over the edge
<yorickpeterse> <3 Fridays
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<rolfb> sports pants not allowed?
<yorickpeterse> She had a meeting, but that was over when I came in
<yorickpeterse> granted these pants (taekwondo pants) look pretty close to PJs
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<yorickpeterse> they're super comfy though
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<rolfb> :)
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<ljarvis> moin
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<ljarvis> I wonder if there's something out there that pulls ar model association information and builds a graph
<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: shouldn't be too hard to otherwise hack together yourself using graphviz
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<ljarvis> yeah thinking that, but i dont really want to spend any time on it
<yorickpeterse> pfff
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<ljarvis> it's not important, but it'd be interested for one of the apps im working on
<ljarvis> would be good if you could provide one base model and it branches off with the associations
<ljarvis> but i cba to dig into association weird ass meta apis for that
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<yorickpeterse> hnnnggg lunch hurry up already
<yorickpeterse> My stomach sounds like a bad thunderstorm
<ljarvis> my cupboards are bare :(
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<yuko7> what's going on in these methods https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3e88881e787f3bd64725. i need clear simple explanations if possible
<solars> hey, can anyone tell me if this: https://gist.github.com/solars/7619b7b3aafe47c6ceca is referring to localhost where the mail is sent from, or the recipients host?
<solars> no idea what causes it
<yorickpeterse> target hostname
<solars> of the mail?
<yorickpeterse> so the certificate specifies foo.com but the hostname is bar.com (for example)
<yorickpeterse> yuko7: wat
<solars> of the recipients mail addr, right?
<yorickpeterse> yuko7: the clear explanation if "a lot"
<yorickpeterse> solars: hard to tell
<solars> hmm
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<workmad3> yuko7: looks like they're reversing endianness in order to transfer data on a network
<yorickpeterse> ha
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<yuko7> workmad3: im just trying to understand the concept - i mentioned the lines of code i dont understand on my gist
<ljarvis> holy fuck aws iam mfa is retarded
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<yorickpeterse> haha
<darix> solars: you configured "localhost" as servername
<yorickpeterse> iam perms are annoying, yes
<yorickpeterse> e.g. I can't even view my own profile
<darix> solars: but the certificate of your mail server doesnt not specify that hostname
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<ljarvis> srsly mfa makes no sense
<darix> solars: use the real hostname
<ljarvis> it really isn't this hard amazon
<darix> you can get it with
<ljarvis> jesus mary mother of fuck
<yorickpeterse> you sound like me
<yorickpeterse> http://www.wallpaper4me.com/images/wallpapers/golem-692573.jpeg yess...yesss...feed on anger
<ljarvis> working on this shit day in day out im not surprised
<darix> solars: openssl s_client -CApath /etc/ssl/certs -starttls smtp -connect yourserver:25 </dev/null | openssl x509 -noout -text | grep -A1 -E '(Subject|X509v3 Subject Alternative Name):'
<darix> yorickpeterse: it is probably your influence.
<yorickpeterse> darix: yah, I inspire people
<workmad3> yuko7: well, you now have a concept to google on ;)
<yuko7> workmad3: ah not you too
<solars> darix, mm and what does that tell me?
<yuko7> workmad3: I came here because i need clarity, google aint cutting it. i thought you would provide me with better explanation
<workmad3> yuko7: have you googled about endianness? do you understand what it is?
<workmad3> yuko7: and have you googled about how to convert values from one endianness to another?
<yorickpeterse> I came here and expected y'all to do my work for me
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<yorickpeterse> now I have to do that myself
<workmad3> yorickpeterse: o noes
<yorickpeterse> imagine this entire channel being like me
<yorickpeterse> would be hilarious
<yorickpeterse> just a bunch of angry geeks yelling at their computer all day
<workmad3> yorickpeterse: so hilarious... so so hilarious...
* workmad3 sits in a corner and cries at the image
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<solars> darix, I get some entries
<yuko7> no need to be rude
<ljarvis> ah ok mfa isn't so bad, except i have to download an app to manage them
<darix> workmad3: nice search terms in his case might be host byte order vs network byte order
<solars> darix?
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<solars> darix, this is the output: https://gist.github.com/solars/7619b7b3aafe47c6ceca
<darix> -.-
<darix> the hostname in that cert is Pioneer
<solars> so I can only use pioneer and not localhost?
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<darix> correct
<darix> ot tell your mail script to turn of starttls
<solars> alright - yeah that's what I'm trying to find
<solars> thanks for your help!
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<yorickpeterse> hihihi, bosswoman being driven to the brink of rage
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<yorickpeterse> people are now suggesting to come in in PJs and bathrobes to mess with her even more
<yorickpeterse> oh dear
<chris2> how is the 1.9.3-pXXX level calculated?
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<yorickpeterse> those are the amount of commits since the last release I believe
<chris2> that was my idea as well
<chris2> but i counted svn log .../tags/... |grep -c ^r
<chris2> and its 611 for _484 vs _0
<yorickpeterse> it's probably compared to the previous release, not the initial one
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<yorickpeterse> so 1.9.3-p123 -> 1.9.3-p124
<chris2> that doesnt make sense
<yorickpeterse> err wait
<yorickpeterse> yeah it doesn't
<yorickpeterse> derp
<chris2> :)
<chris2> (and holy fuck does svn feel antique)
<yorickpeterse> good thing they more or less dropped patch levems
<yorickpeterse> * levels
<chris2> hm?
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<yorickpeterse> except it's not actual actualy semver sadly
<chris2> as if anyone did semver right :P
<chris2> probably the kind of people that think they understand LSP
<yorickpeterse> semver is very easy
<yorickpeterse> every release you just bump the mayor version
<yorickpeterse> then you can freely break things
<yorickpeterse> nobody will complain because semver
<chris2> and how many tools are at release 9393.25.1?
<yorickpeterse> Chrome is closing in fast
<chris2> yes ;)
<yorickpeterse> or you just stuff lots of things in one release
<chris2> that ruby version has patchlevel as well, btw
<yorickpeterse> "Version 2.0 changes everything. Literally"
<yorickpeterse> Yes, but it's not part of the public version anymore I believe
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: re MFA, y u log in as root user
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: i havent
<yorickpeterse> eh? isn't MFA for the root account only?
<ljarvis> no we're adding mfa for each iam
<yorickpeterse> at least I can't seem to enable it for myself
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<ljarvis> ah right yeah i think the main account has to enable it for each iam
<ljarvis> i dont use that though
<yorickpeterse> ah
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<yorickpeterse> lol RDS
<yorickpeterse> authorization quota exceeded
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<yorickpeterse> who the fuck puts a quota on that in the first place
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<Epaphus> SOrry..
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<Epaphus> Notify I joined!
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<Epaphus> Hey, I wanted to ask how to create a simple messaging program and where I should look towards for Ruby?
<yorickpeterse> messaging of what?
<yorickpeterse> You mean a chat app?
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<Epaphus> Basically yes
<yorickpeterse> There's a million ways to do it, anything more specific in that area that you're looking for/interested in?
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<Epaphus> I want to manage a server where everyone connects to and chats in...
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<yorickpeterse> What I mean is, asking "how do I write a chat app" is like asking "how does life come to be?". In terms of underlying technologies alone there are so many directions to head into
<yorickpeterse> e.g. you can use EventMachine, or not, maybe put things in a DB, etc
<yorickpeterse> Having said that
<yorickpeterse> If you're doing this in Ruby you'll probably need a Ruby that is actually concurrent such as Rbx or Jruby
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<darix> 2014 and people still want to invent new chat protocols instead of just using xmpp?
<yorickpeterse> For learning exercises I don't see the problem with that
<darix> admitted most people gimp the access to their xmpp servers in the end (hello facebook and whats app) but at least ...
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<cout> irc > *
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<yorickpeterse> meh, IRC isn't a silver bullet
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<cout> I don't see why not
<cout> I use it for everything
<chris2> xmpp is pretty terrible imo :P
<yorickpeterse> cout: try keeping it up and running when under a ddos
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<yorickpeterse> Granted I doubt xmpp would deal better with it
<yorickpeterse> IRC is one of the better specified / developed protocols though
<yorickpeterse> hihihi, CTO just used `say` in the office mac mini to tell other bossman to get us beer
<yorickpeterse> (mac mini is on the other end)
<yorickpeterse> yay SSH
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<yorickpeterse> ok now said mac is singing
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<darix> cout: i cant just run my own irc server and talk with my friends on another irc server.
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<cout> darix: why would you want to run your own irc server? that's so much work...
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<darix> cout: actually it isnt.
<darix> it only gets a lot of work if you let random people on it.
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<cout> I'd rather crank up my car and go talk to my friends at a coffee shop anyway
<yorickpeterse> I never got the interest some show in pimping their cars
<yorickpeterse> then again they probably think the same about my interest in tech
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<cout> cars are tech :)
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<yorickpeterse> details
<cout> I appreciate the work people put into their cars
<cout> but the cold air intakes and sound systems don't impress me. that's just bolt-on stuff.
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<cout> what really impresses me is things like this: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/12/upside-down-camaro-lemons-speedycop-video/
<yorickpeterse> hahaha
<yorickpeterse> ok that is pretty funny
<cout> (I actually got to help wrench on that car for a bit)
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<ljarvis> im so confused
<ljarvis> fog lists 2 ec2 instances
<ljarvis> my console has none
<ljarvis> wat
<ljarvis> OH
<ljarvis> oh god
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: y u use fog
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<ryanf> ljarvis: different regions?
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<ljarvis> ryanf: yep
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: spawn dem instances
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<|jemc|> In case anyone was following my dillema yesterday about testing weakrefs
<|jemc|> I've decided to use ref for my weak references: https://github.com/bdurand/ref
<|jemc|> It has some other features that are useful to me, like a weak map implementation that is intended for public usage, unlike ObjectSpace::WeakMap
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<|jemc|> as well as a nice tidy system for testing that will do the mock garbage collection and expiry automatically
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<|jemc|> and, if the readme is to be believed, conformance across the various ruby implementations
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<poor_leno> what approach do you guys suggest for having efficient ways of loading translated data for active record models?
<poor_leno> sorry ignore above
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: the fuck you need fog for, you should be using autoscaling for that on EC2
<yorickpeterse> unless you want to spawn them on-demand, then just use the aws-sdk (unless I'm missing some part where fog is useful for just AWS)
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<yorickpeterse> even then, put stuff in an autoscaling group even if you don't scale up automatically
<yorickpeterse> it's much easier to just say "increase desired capacity by 1 plox" opposed to "start this instance with this AMI, this disk config, this security group, etc, etc"
<yorickpeterse> granted it takes some time to set up
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<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: no im not talking about scaling
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, then I'm probably missing something
<ljarvis> I'm talking about quickly spinning instances us for random stuff
<ljarvis> ie a single command
<yorickpeterse> aah
<yorickpeterse> that's the one part I actively use the web console for
<yorickpeterse> the `aws` CLI is too painful to use
<ljarvis> aye
<ljarvis> hence me using fog
<yorickpeterse> aws ec2 launch-instance --herp-derp-enterprise-option=value
<ljarvis> the web console is pretty okay
<yorickpeterse> the previous design was shit though
<yorickpeterse> Especially Cloudwatch was a pain for us
<yorickpeterse> It would only load like 5k metrics out of the box and you would have to click some hidden link to show the rest
<yorickpeterse> (we have around 25K I believe)
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