apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<nowayride> Hi, why would running sinatra with assigning a sys call to a var then passing to erb or whatever, just dump the sys call's output directly, like assigning `uptime` to a var for parsing ends up outputting `uptime` directly to webpage, and I can't manage to get the formatted output anywhere but console
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<erikh> haha
<erikh> you potheads.
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<ljarvis> no u
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<boytoy> Hi, anybody know how to match HTML as the content-type in Rack? I'm trying to minify my HTML like Google: https://gist.github.com/kakekake89/6020883
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<ljarvis> boytoy: that's a bad idea
<boytoy> ljarvis: everybody does it
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<ljarvis> boytoy: no, not 'everybody' does it
<ljarvis> Google does, but they almost certainly don't do it in a middleware
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<boytoy> kinda like to crown ones work. and to tell people trying to view your source that "hey, i expected you'd be doing this" :p
<boytoy> oh
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<ljarvis> Sure, but in a middleware? You want slow-ass ruby to spend time removing your spaces while your users are waiting for a response?
<ljarvis> of course you don't :)
<boytoy> no i probably dont
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<ljarvis> if you want minified html, use minified views
<ljarvis> I dont see the point in minified html, myself, though
<ljarvis> (for speed reasons)
<boytoy> minified views is a no go though, i like em well indented and easy to maintain
<boytoy> so if not ruby what should i use?
<ljarvis> agreed, which is why I use slim (or haml)
<boytoy> was easy for me to find minifiers for css and js but not a single one for html
<boytoy> ooh slim? i gotta look that up
<ljarvis> eh, the language doesn't matter. You shouldn't minify html on every request. It makes absolutely no sense, what do you think is faster, rendering html with whitespace, or html which is run through a minifying and then returned without whitespace?
<ljarvis> Yeah, that's because css/js is minified on asset precompile
<ljarvis> html views are not assets
<ljarvis> if you want minified html, you need to minify it during the asset precompile stage also
<ljarvis> (again, slim solves this for me, though)
<boytoy> haha nice
<boytoy> (slim)
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<ljarvis> slim is different because whilst is also needs to generate html from its own syntax, it has some hardcore caching techniques, and is probably only slightly slower than erb (the tradeoff is worth it, for me). But with corect http-caching, you shouldn't be worrying about any of this
<boytoy> ljarvis: minify during asset precompile interesting
<ljarvis> boytoy: yeah, good luck with that :P
<ljarvis> check out the source of twitter or fb, no minifying (and many other speedy websites)
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<ljarvis> use gzip responses and correct caching, problem solved
<boytoy> im doing that too
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<ljarvis> then stop worrying :)
<boytoy> but would like to minify just to crown my work
<ljarvis> 'crown my work' wat
<boytoy> add that little extra level of detail :p
<ljarvis> what detail?
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<ljarvis> "oh look i can remove whitespace"?
<boytoy> yeah and comments removed
<ljarvis> html comments are there for a reason, to be in the output
<ljarvis> people dont care what your source looks like
<boytoy> yeah but to be read by devs not the general public
<boytoy> i wouldnt be so sure
<ljarvis> hell, make your website super fast and your source code HUGE, THAT looks more impressive
<boytoy> theres a lot of competition going on these days
<ljarvis> "I know how the web works"
<ljarvis> haha with minifying html? behave
<boytoy> quora does it too
<ljarvis> quora is not a good example is a good website
<ljarvis> of*
<boytoy> but fb is?
<boytoy> no you behave
<ljarvis> yes
<ljarvis> fb if the perfect example of a great website
<ljarvis> like it or not
<ljarvis> is*
<boytoy> well
<boytoy> fb and quora were designed by the same chick so
<ljarvis> ah yeah I forgot one person design them both entirely
<ljarvis> twitters source code is over 6 thousand lines long
<ljarvis> and their page renders in under 200ms for me
<ljarvis> THAT is impressive
<ljarvis> that condensed into a single line earns no brownie points, and just maks it look like shit
<ljarvis> same with github
<boytoy> well she did design quora entirely up to just recently, and she laid the groundwork for much of facebook's current ui elements (not sure about the upcoming newsfeed redesign though)
<boytoy> but look i know minifying my html may seem pointless to you
<ljarvis> ok it looks like I can't convince you you're trying to solve a non-problem, so I wish you best of luck with it
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<ljarvis> that was genuine even if it didn't seem like it
<boytoy> but i like paying extreme attention to details, i feel it sorta elevates my app to a higher plane
<Nilium> Do you have data to back up your focus on a particular detail, though?
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<Nilium> If you don't, it's probably just masturbation and avoiding a real problem.
<boytoy> Nilium: thats always good to have true, but for now im just following my heart
<Nilium> Masturbation: ✔
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<boytoy> lulz
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<erikh> world's oldest profession
<erikh> programmers not listening to benchmarks
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<Nilium> To be fair, I reinvent wheels like it's going out of style, so it's not like I'm innocent.
<erikh> nothing wrong with reinventing to add value
<erikh> or dealing with, well, a pain in the ass maintainer
<Nilium> The latter is usually the problem.
<erikh> unfortunately it is too often
<Nilium> Or the maintainer just disappeared/became a philosopher/fell into a black hole.
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<Nilium> That said, most of the things I reinvent are just because I wanted to try it. E.g., using ZeroMQ for thread communication in Android despite there being stuff for that already.
<ljarvis> reinventing the wheel for educational gain is no crime
<Nilium> Mostly because sockets are fun and I don't have to get a lock to pass data between threads.
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<erikh> I reinvented farting
<erikh> I disrupted gas
<ljarvis> and eloquently so
<Nilium> I'd say the old farts were better. Your not-invented-here fart is a cheap imitation, like a bassoon held up to a harp.
<ljarvis> well said
<Nilium> I really need to order some new cups for my headphones.
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<ridders24> hi, is it possible to return more than the 20 most recent tweets from a user timeline via the twitter gem?
<ljarvis> :count (Integer) — Specifies the number of records to retrieve. Must be less than or equal to 200.
<ridders24> ljarvis: thank you
<apeiros> reading docs - a lost art :-p
<ljarvis> it appears so!
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<erikh> haha you guys
<erikh> for like a decade ruby had no docs to speak of
<nowayride> Why is the guy looking at the trash
<ljarvis> hey one mans trash if another mans bag of crap
<ljarvis> is*
<apeiros> huh
<apeiros> wall of rain
<apeiros> good thing I didn't bike to work
<ljarvis> good thing I didn't leave my bed to work
<nowayride> Try 100F weather then say that.. rain would be lovely
<apeiros> oh I'm absolutely happy about the rain
<apeiros> it has been too hot here for weeks
<ljarvis> heh I know that feeling
<ljarvis> it was hot once when I left this country
<apeiros> but I'd be rather unhappy about having to bike home in this rain :D
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<rue> Biking in the rain is perfectly fine if you know you’ll be dry in < 1 hour anyway
<rue> Also, there were plenty of docs, shush
<apeiros> rue: in *a bit of rain*, ok. but this is *a wall* of rain.
<apeiros> and I say that being one of those people who usually don't bother to use an umbrella when it rains
<rue> Wall schmall
<nowayride> Well, still, better a wall of rain than a funnel of wind
<apeiros> i.e., it's not about getting wet. it's about the street being washed away under you and you drowning
<nowayride> So, Sinatra and Xenserver API is pretty fun
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<imperator> good morning
<imperator> any chance i can get some help making a better tcp ping?
<imperator> i'm trying to avoid using Timeout.timeout
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<imperator> the story so far: https://gist.github.com/djberg96/6328847
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<imperator> and it has to be cross-platform, so no SO_RCVTIMEO, etc
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<freedrull> is there a :jruby_18 option for specifying a platform in bundler?
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<freedrull> no
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<freedrull> seriously no one has tried to submit a patch for that yet?
<rue> Many have tried. None have returned…
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<imperator> how's your socket programming rue? ;)
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<rue> Used to be okay…
<rue> Then I started writing Ruby
<freedrull> lol
<imperator> right after you took an arrow to the knee?
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<rue> Yup
<rue> imperator: I think you want to check write rather than read for connect()
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<kek> what's the deal with having both #ruby-lang and #ruby?
<imperator> rue, ugh, i thought i tried that!
<imperator> it seems to work
<rue> kek: My blood pressure was too low, the docs said, so we had to improvise
<rue> imperator: I’m also not sure whether you want to actually have the code inside the EINPROGRESS; I think you could just rescue it as a no-op, and then wait on the socket
<rue> At least I think it’s theoretically possible that you /don’t/ get an EINPROGRESS at all
<imperator> kek, the first rule of #ruby-lang is that we don't talk about #ruby
<kek> And now you broke it :)
<imperator> rue, tinkering around with it, doesn't want to play
<imperator> ah, wait, think i got it
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<yorickpeterse> Ragel is pretty cool
<yorickpeterse> now that I'm slowly starting to understand it
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<imperator> rue, can i assume that if i get no response from the select, it's an econnrefused?
<rue> I don’t know if you can assume that, but it may be the case?
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<imperator> hm, is there a good way to tell?
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<rue> You should get ECONNREFUSED if that’s what it is, no?
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<rue> How many is that, 15?
<imperator> alot
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<imperator> (well, added a comment below)
<imperator> i think for my purposes, any failure outside of Socket.getaddrinfo can be considered a refusal of some sort
<imperator> hm, well, there is ehostunreach...
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<imperator> although...those should happen in the connect call, nm
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<imperator> yorickpeterse, i vaguely recall zed shaw talking about it many years ago for a web server i think
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<rue> imperator: Does it/can you get it to work with #connect instead of nonblock?
<rue> That + rescuing Errno should give you a better thingy
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<imperator> rue, it'll work, but i can't control the timeout then (can i?)
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<rue> Nope
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<asahi> i have a statement like foo = bar.text but there are cases where bar is nil. what's a good way to deal with this?
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<whitequark> if you have activesupport, bar.try(:text)
<whitequark> otherwise bar && bar.text
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<imperator> or bar and bar.text, depending on how you want it to evaluate
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<waxjar> patch NilClass to have a method_missing that always returns nil
<asahi> got it. thanks
<waxjar> (and see the world burn)
<waxjar> >:)
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<imperator> weird, i get an econnrefused trying to open a TCPSocket on localhost, but it works with raw sockets
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<imperator> hm, i think this will require 1.9 or later
<imperator> oh, well
<asahi> is there a cleaner way to write this expression? !href.match('^/wiki').nil?
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<imperator> if href.match ?
<asahi> thx
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* imperator posts on ruby-talk-google for the first time in a long time
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<freedrull> how can i properly disconnect from irc instead of just waiting for ping timeout, just close the socket?
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