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<larsc>
wpwrak: how well does network manager support 6lowpan? ;)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: time to start emigration, before no more hightech imports and no immigration to EU allowed
<DocScrutinizer05>
I could figure it's hard to get a visa for an "aggressor" state
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: but it should be easy to get "refugee" status :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed
<DocScrutinizer05>
no kidding
<DocScrutinizer05>
but I wonder if Putin will let go
<DocScrutinizer05>
(aggressor states) after all this new law in Russia will get established for some purpose, I don't think nothing in emigration politics of Russia will change from this
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: yes, I've already decided to get out before the end of the year
<DocScrutinizer05>
might be early enough. i hope so for you
<whitequark>
in Jan even
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: oh, it's russia declaring aggressors ? that's new. so far that was the prerogative of the US ;-)
<wpwrak>
whitequark: winter ... a good time to get out of russia :)
<wpwrak>
whitequark: where to ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
nah! sanctions are aimed at Putin personally, to get him out of Government and to destabilize Russia. So all states that are sanctioning are agressors
<wpwrak>
that may actually be reasonably close to the truth ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
all that has *nothing* to do with Russia/Putin sending weapons and illegal troops to Ukraine
<whitequark>
wpwrak: I have several options
<wpwrak>
putin acts exactly like any US prez would, except that he doesn't even pretend to be "good"
<whitequark>
UK, FR, HK, maybe even USA (probably not, no higher ed)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: and of course Russia will use that as an opportunity to build own hightech stuff finally. Long planned move, in 3 months Russia is back to normal and stronger and more independant than before
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: they're going there to meet their colleagues the US sent, and compare the state of their equipment. think of it as a convention ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm? sorry you lost me
<whitequark>
hahaha, own hightech stuff
<whitequark>
adorable/
<wpwrak>
whitequark: with you gone, they won't :)
<whitequark>
even with all else equal, it takes time and capital investment to get it back, orders of magnitude more than what'll be provided
<whitequark>
and all else is *not* equal
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: the usual US approach is to send "military advisors" and of course all sorts of equipment. they've done this countless times and in ukraine it's just the same. and now they're pissed off that the putin is copying their tricks. it's rather droll ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, kinda
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
I honestly don't give a fuck really
<wpwrak>
yeah, let's hope the thing doesn't blow up
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's just a pity how a few idiots with guns (either side) can mess up a whole country full of people who just want to do their *own* thing
<wpwrak>
well, that's always been the case. and part of the problem there is of course that there's one country but more than one "own thing". and that's when things usually get complicated
<wpwrak>
i think what we're seeing at the moment is really the beginning of the chaos that usually accompanies the rise and fall of empires
<wpwrak>
the US are declining, china is on the rise. it'll take a while until a new equilibrium will be reached.
<DocScrutinizer05>
that sounds like a pretty precise characterization
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's prolly lest of US decline but in this particular case EU decay from bloat and poor foundation
<DocScrutinizer05>
while Soviet empire already recovers from complete implosion and now tries to go reaction/counter-revolution
<wpwrak>
yeah, i wonder how long until the EU in its present form breaks apart
<DocScrutinizer05>
it already does
<DocScrutinizer05>
in a few week Ireland or Scotland elect about leaving UK
<DocScrutinizer05>
Hungary goes absolutism
<DocScrutinizer05>
and England itself is not very happy with being in EU
<wpwrak>
(ireland ans scotland) well, they may still stay in the EU. besides, the UK is somewhat weakly linked anyway.
<wpwrak>
dunno about hungary. haven't heard anything from there. what's happening ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, some analysts say next is France and that's been it then with EU
<DocScrutinizer05>
(Hungary) they turn into little Russia
<wpwrak>
greece has big troubles. the rest still seem to be doing tolerably well. i mean, not "good" but also well below the point where you'd expect a revolution.
<DocScrutinizer05>
really? 60% unemployment?
<wpwrak>
and maybe spain's upcoming splintering will take some pressure off things
<DocScrutinizer05>
hah
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<DocScrutinizer05>
the global money machine is just big enough now to eat whole states like greece and spain
<wpwrak>
and high unemployment per se shouldn't be considered a problem
<wpwrak>
in fact, the problem is in it being considered a problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
the problem is in state debits
<DocScrutinizer05>
the state doesn't generate income anymore, so it gets eaten by big money
<wpwrak>
it's simply that modern society does not need everyone to work. so the sooner the pretense of "full employment" can be dropped, the better. note the "can be", since there are obviously major changes needed before this can happen without just murdering the "useless"
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, that's the lie of endles growth
<larsc>
tax machines!
<DocScrutinizer05>
capitalism collapsing just like communism did
<DocScrutinizer05>
the money industry is magnitudes bigger than whole the rest of *real* industry
<DocScrutinizer05>
and you can witness live how a small state gets bought out, here Greece
<DocScrutinizer05>
other states will follow soon
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<DocScrutinizer05>
you know that basically all the billions of EUR that EU gives to Greece are instantly returned to non-greecen banks and fonds to satisfy them?
<wpwrak>
well, that's the reason why they "give" money to greece in the first place, isn't it ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<wpwrak>
think of it as a nice big money-laundering project
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's a buy-out of whole countries by money industry
<wpwrak>
why would they buy it ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the same reason why hedge fonds buy bankrupt companies
<wpwrak>
i think it's just a collateral for money games. nobody cares about what is or lives there.
<wpwrak>
yup, that's what i mean
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, it's only to make more money
<whitequark>
we're all going to die
<DocScrutinizer05>
sooner or later, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
but until then I like to have fun and no hassle around me
<larsc>
in that case you probably shouldn't worry that much about the fincial industries
<DocScrutinizer05>
why?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's determining where and how I live, after all
<DocScrutinizer05>
and heck, possibly even when and how I die
<wpwrak>
naw, that's monsanto's business :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
monsanto wouldn't be possible without the big money facilitating it
<DocScrutinizer05>
nobody needs that shit
<wpwrak>
oh, they go back a looong way. they pretty much made their own money.
<DocScrutinizer05>
and at least here nobody *wants* it either
<DocScrutinizer05>
monsanto maybe made their own money, but not enough to buy whole EU parliament so e.g. the titip(?) now allows US gene crap exports to all EU countries
<wpwrak>
did you know that monsanto, for example, was one of the main producers of agent orange ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's *the* big money behind that too
<DocScrutinizer05>
not surprised
<DocScrutinizer05>
bayer, basf, monsanto, big oil, all the same shit
<ysionneau>
Dow Chemical
<DocScrutinizer05>
you know a TV series "Max Headroom"? IIRC all districts been owned by big companies like CocaCola. No more nations, just commerce districts. We're not far from that
<DocScrutinizer05>
just needs a "Raumordnungsverfahren" (sorry lack of english term) eventually. Right now it's pretty mixed up everywhere
<wpwrak>
that's an old dystopia. i don't see that one quite coming. in fact, the financial system is now the main mover that affects people at a personal level, not so much the megacorps.
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<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course "CocaCola" is a lame joke. Rather this will be Leeman and DeutscheBank and Nestle etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
so yeah, typed before I read your answer
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I just wonder when and how the inevitable clash between financial and big data systems will happen
<DocScrutinizer05>
when Google and DeutscheBank fight with each other who's owning Greece
<wpwrak>
clash ?
<wpwrak>
alliance ! :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hardly
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't see any interest in Google to ally with any big finance. *google+ actually has enough money
<DocScrutinizer05>
and they're already allied with the TLAs ;-)