Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
<viric>
I've no idea how much the postal sending will be
<viric>
ok, I asked for it
dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
dandon has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services]
DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<wpwrak>
viric: you may want to google for the product name. after all, once anyone receives their CD, they're free to redistribute it (at least the GPL code, in case there's more on it) anywhere they like. in case you're the first one, you should of course do so :)
<viric>
I tried, but I didn't find anything quickly
<wpwrak>
then you'll be the first to completely liberate the sources :)
<viric>
hehe
<viric>
I'd like to get into the device with some shell (it has busybox for sure, and a wifi adapter)
<viric>
but that's another deal.
<Fallenou>
wpwrak: awesome piece of work, your pattern generator :)
<wpwrak>
thanks :) did you play with it ?
xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<Fallenou>
I don't have any Ben unfortunately
<Fallenou>
I might aquire one though one day, it seems a very nice little experimenting toy
<wpwrak>
it is :)
xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware
Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
kuribas has joined #qi-hardware
rz2k has joined #qi-hardware
LunaVorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Hoolxi has joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware
dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
dandon_ is now known as dandon
pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
Hoolxi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lindi- has quit [Changing host]
lindi- has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware
pcercuei has quit [Quit: Bye]
kuribas has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving]
kilae has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
sivoais has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
jekhor has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
emeb has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
porchao has joined #qi-hardware
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
great typo: <1 << 3) in a group of similar bit definitions. with the right font, even if the compiler tells you exactly where it is, it takes several minutes of staring to see this one
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
<Fallenou>
nice catch =)
<Fallenou>
it's like special whitespaces which are not "space" that you usually type with a combination of alt|shift|your_cat_on_the_keyboard + space
<Fallenou>
you can only spot them using hexdump on your source code :)
<Fallenou>
or just removing spaces randomly in your source code and replacing it with .. another space
<wpwrak>
luckily, even vi doesn't show this abomination as just a space
<larsc>
wpwrak: try the characters I just pasted
<wpwrak>
pasting already turns them into '
<wpwrak>
oops. '#'
<wpwrak>
and the perverted space simply vanishes on copy & paste
<larsc>
there is even a visible space in unicode: ␣
<wpwrak>
(alt+spc)
<wpwrak>
it was already pretty daring to start using that 7th bit. why on earth would anyone in their sane judgment want 8 or even more bits per character ?
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
<larsc>
because there are more than 256 characters?
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<whitequark>
I'm laterally thinking of what encoding would be a good idea to use in embedded programming
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
<whitequark>
it seems to me that UTF-8 is probably optimal, with iteration over 16-bit codepoints
<whitequark>
the possible problems are various normalization algorithms, which AFAIK may require large tables, and surrogate pairs
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<wpwrak>
larsc: there are the necessary characters. then there is upper/lower case. and then there are transcriptions :)
<wpwrak>
everything else is just confusion :)
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
<whitequark>
wpwrak: you english-speaking chauvinist!
<larsc>
wpwrak: tell that to anybody who's not using the latin alphabet ;)
<larsc>
whitequark: hm, funny you can get the same character using different byte encodings, didn't knew that
<whitequark>
larsc: that stuff is somewhat insane but is unfortunately required
<whitequark>
the NFKC/NFKD are especially useful when doing string comparison, e.g. in search queries
<larsc>
"Compatible sequences may be treated the same way in some applications (such as sorting and indexing), but not in others; and may be substituted for each other in some situations, but not in others. Sequences that are canonically equivalent are also compatible, but the opposite is not necessarily true."
<larsc>
that sounds like a lot of fun
<whitequark>
oh exactly.
<whitequark>
also: In using normalization functions, it is important to realize that none of the Normalization Forms are closed under string concatenation.
<wpwrak>
larsc: oh, make kids learn to write in ASCII (let's call it SCII to avoid geographic bias) and in just a few generations you've solved that problem, too
<whitequark>
wpwrak: it might be helpful to remember that majority of the world's population, in fact, couldn't care less about *SCII, much less enforce it
<wpwrak>
larsc: (confusing characters) it starts with the '. there seems to be a non-ASCII ' in some environments, not sure if it's in some keyboard layouts or a windows thing. very annoying to run into these.
<whitequark>
and, by extension of the same logic, I would much like to see Americans using proper system, e.g. metric and big-endian dates.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: yeah, the west missed an opportunity there, when asia was weak and impressionable :)
<whitequark>
(yes, I take this personally. fuck with encodings for a decade and you will as well)
<wpwrak>
(metric) maybe we could work out a deal between asia and the US ;-)
<whitequark>
if only asia didn't use its own version of measurement system, which is way more fucked up than imperial units
<whitequark>
*versions
<wpwrak>
russia is close enough to ASCII that the switch would be trivial :)
<wpwrak>
ah, do they ?
<whitequark>
wpwrak: well, from what I know there is quite a bit of these systems, all fragmented and empirically defined
<whitequark>
i.e. units derived from "buckets" and similar ad-hoc means of measurement
<whitequark>
but due to their quantity, it again seems that they do settle on metric mostly
<wpwrak>
sounds familiar .. "foot", etc.
<whitequark>
yeah yeah
<whitequark>
we had one in Russia too. which was, ironically, derived from imperial units
<wpwrak>
yeah, the US seems to be the last bastion of widespread use of non-metric
<whitequark>
if I remember my history classes correctly, it emerged in early 1700s at the reign of Peter the Great and lasted until the communists took over
<wpwrak>
there are plenty of funny measurements that all go straight to the romans (and who knows where they stole them)
<whitequark>
as a side effect, 1U server has the height of один вершок
<wpwrak>
i hope that's an irrational number :)
<whitequark>
which sounds reeeeally arcane and antique in Russian
<whitequark>
1U is an integral number of inches
<whitequark>
not sure which exactly
<wpwrak>
i meant "один вершок" :)
<wpwrak>
OAIH BEPWOK. see, it's easy :) no, what do you cook in a bepwok ?
<whitequark>
well as I've said, it simply equals to the inches. it's basically a translation of "inch" dating back to 1700s
<wpwrak>
ah wait, that was a reversed N, so OANH
<whitequark>
pronounced somewhat like "odin vershok"
<whitequark>
yeah, the google translate's spoken version of that is close enough to be understood
<wpwrak>
ah, odin after sharing a few barrels of mead with thor ;-)
<wpwrak>
Unicode hexadecimal: 0x1f61c "Face with stuck-out tongue and winking eye". now, how do i add tilde and cedilla ?
<wpwrak>
larsc: probably more typing than BEGIN in Pascal ;-)
* whitequark
hands wpwrak a COMBINING TILDE U+0303
<wpwrak>
argh
<wpwrak>
i should have known ...
<whitequark>
and a COMBINING CEDILLA U+0327
<whitequark>
I also have no clue what a cedilla is, and my font rendering engine neither
<larsc>
a̧
<whitequark>
oh
<wpwrak>
and of course, they also have things like "Greek small letter upsilon with dasia and oxia"
<larsc>
it's something at the bottom of the character
<whitequark>
wpwrak: the job of unicode is to make every single other encoding obsolete
<whitequark>
thus, they just plain include everything imaginable
<wpwrak>
cedilla looks a bit like a comma. in french it's below some cs ("c-cedille")
<whitequark>
Linear Scripts A and B :D
<whitequark>
this is actually quite wise. first, because unicode actually reduces a huge PITA with encodings to a significantly less PITA with one encoding
<whitequark>
and second, because languages die, and we don't want them to be buried with their respective encoding
<wpwrak>
"Canadian syllabics nwii" from "Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics Extended". i think they forgot the name of the person in whose handwriting it looks exactly like that
<wpwrak>
well, as some point you have more codepoints than reasonably distinguishable glyphs :)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: this was actually a hot political topic
<whitequark>
so-called Han unification
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<whitequark>
the unicode consortium has unified the Chinese hieroglyphs and corresponding Japanese derived ones
<wpwrak>
i can imagine that unicode is a good place for political stakeholders
<whitequark>
not only they have some subtle, but practically important, differences in rendering
<wpwrak>
and if the differences are invisible, they're even more important :)
<whitequark>
but also for both of these nations, unificating their language with the language of their oppressor has an immediate danger of someone going into a rage
<whitequark>
this is also the reason Ruby, instead of just settling on Unicode, includes support for all imaginable encodings
<whitequark>
the important part is that they feature Shift-JIS and friends :)
<whitequark>
also that made the encoding system a total clusterfuck impossible to reimplement in a compatible way
<wpwrak>
the more i hear about unicode, the more i like my ascii unification idea :) at least people from all but a very small number of countries would have to give up some of their priced cultural heritage. so it's unfair to almost all. let's strike some nearly redundant letter and also the rest will be pissed off. how about the K ? there should be a great howl of agony in some places in the southern US.
<whitequark>
fortunately, ruby 2.0 defaults on utf-8 everywhere and maybe they'll do something with the encodings...
<wpwrak>
just strip and 8th bit and peace is restored
<wpwrak>
s/and/the/q
<qi-bot>
wpwrak meant: "just strip the 8th bit the peace is restored"
<wpwrak>
hey, that was a "quit after the first substitution" !
<larsc>
y can go aswell
<wpwrak>
jeah
wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<wpwrak>
though it would be better to begin with things like I=1, O=0, S=5, etc.
<larsc>
yea, we can actually get rid of 0-9 anyway
<wpwrak>
so instead of s/y//g how about s/i/y/g ?
LunaVorax has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
correct. the romans had it pretty much figured out. back to the basics.
<wpwrak>
let's use Z for 0.
<whitequark>
you have invented the typewriter alphabet, congrats
hypermodern_ has joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
that one usually has numbers
hypermodern_ has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware]
<whitequark>
hm
<wpwrak>
maybe if you add a reverse button ... O, I, Z, rev-E, rev-h, S, G, rev-L, semi-rev-B, rev-G. yeah, that could work.
<wpwrak>
but better to just switch to roman numerals. proven technology.
<whitequark>
Many older typewriters did not include a separate key for the numeral 1 or the exclamation point, and some even older ones also lack the numeral zero. Typists who trained on these machines learned the habit of using the lowercase letter l ("ell") for the digit 1, and the uppercase O for the zero.
wej has joined #qi-hardware
<larsc>
just use A-I instead of 0-9
<whitequark>
larsc: or ADGJMPTWZ
<larsc>
no!
<wpwrak>
who so inefficient and not A-Z ?
<larsc>
;)
<larsc>
because we only have IA fingers
<whitequark>
larsc: i.e. 90?
<wpwrak>
by the time you've convinced everyone, genetic engineering will have a solution for that, too
<larsc>
BA
<larsc>
bee-te a
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erikkugel has joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]