asheesh changed the topic of #sandstorm to: Welcome to #sandstorm: home of all things sandstorm.io. Say hi! | Channel glossary: "i,i" means "I have no point, I just want to say". b == thumbs up. | Public logs at https://botbot.me/freenode/sandstorm/ & http://logbot.g0v.tw/channel/sandstorm/today
<dwrensha> hi cmr!
aldeka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ocdtrekkie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aldeka has joined #sandstorm
ocdtrekkie has joined #sandstorm
<cmr> hi dwrensha :)
<cmr> dwrensha: What do you think the prospects of paring down capnp-rust to approximately no_std are? (Can add alloc/collections as necessary)
<cmr> (and also possibly capnp-rpc-rust, but also probably not)
<dwrensha> hm... I've never actually thought much about that
<cmr> I should finish my "Rust without std" blog post, the docs are somewhat anemic here.
<dwrensha> is it possible to cook up one's own version of std::marker::PhantomData ?
<cmr> that's in core.
<dwrensha> ah
<cmr> So the major pieces of std that you can't get in no_std for stupid reasons are the Read/Write traits, the Box type, and any of the collections types (including Vec). Using nightly you can get the Box/collections via `extern crate alloc` and `extern crate collections`, but they're "unstable".
<cmr> Everything else that isn't an OS service (Option, Result, iterators, numerics) is in core.
<dwrensha> str too, I guess
<cmr> yep, though String comes from collections.
<dwrensha> Rc?
<cmr> in alloc
<cmr> Code-change wise I'd add a facade "std" that re-exports alloc/collections types that get used, using the external crates if a `nightly` cargo feature is provided.
<dwrensha> What are the advantages of allowing no_std?
<cmr> I can use it in robigalia ;)
<cmr> (I'm happy to implement this if you'd accept it)
<dwrensha> what is the story for Read/Write?
<dwrensha> I guess the problem there is that they depend on std::io
<dwrensha> becuase their methods can return a std::io::Error
<cmr> I'd #[cfg] out the bits that depend on Read/Write
<cmr> although I've been contemplating pulling out analogs of those traits into an external "coreio" crate.
<cmr> because not having them has proved very painful in my life.
<cmr> nice.
<cmr> it's just not in crates.io yet, which is why I didn't find it.
<dwrensha> man, that Repr:Custom variant of std::io::Error causes all sorts of trouble
<dwrensha> like preventing it from being Clone
<dwrensha> I'm trying to understand what this "facade" would look like.
<dwrensha> what about when `nightly` is not provided?
<cmr> if `nightly` is not provided, then the crate won't be `no_std`
<dwrensha> but it would still reexport thins?
<dwrensha> *things
<cmr> I foolishly didn't re-export Box/collections, but should have.
<dwrensha> heh, that's a lot of cfgs
<dwrensha> ah, but I'm not seeing any public re-exports
<dwrensha> which is a plus
<cmr> yeah, they're not public.
tdfischer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<dwrensha> I usually consider re-exports to be an anti-pattern, but yours seems to be a legit use case.
<dwrensha> and I guess only a temporary measure until these bundled crates are stabilized?
<cmr> I don't see that happening in the next 1-2 years, but that is the theory.
<dwrensha> heh
tdfischer has joined #sandstorm
<dwrensha> what is the purpose of all the different features in the Cargo.tom?
<dwrensha> I mean, couldn't you have a single "no_std" feature?
<cmr> Some environments don't even have memory allocation.
<dwrensha> I see, the readme has decent explanation
<cmr> Basically it lets all crates implement the traits, regardless of what the end runtime environment is.
jemc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<dwrensha> well, allowing no_std in capnp seems like a reasonable thing to want
<dwrensha> so I'm not against adding such functionality, as long as it doesn't disrupt users who don't care about it, and it doesn't have a huge maintenance burden
<cmr> Sure.
<cmr> Also I see Sandstorm itself is Apache-2.0 but the libs are MIT. Is there any particular reason for that?
<dwrensha> capnproto used to be BSD-3, then changed to MIT https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/capnproto/xXDd2HUOCcc/gbe_COIuXKYJ
<dwrensha> cmr: I suppose you would push for Apache-2.0/MIT dual licensing?
<cmr> I have done that in the past, yes ;)
<cmr> (though I'm of the opinion that the right answer to "pick only one" is Apache-2.0)
<dwrensha> I wish I understood this sentence, which seems to be an important part of the Apache license: "If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for...
<dwrensha> ...that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed."
<dwrensha> I suppose I should find a lawyer, or something
rgrinberg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shachaf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shachaf has joined #sandstorm
rgrinberg has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
amyers has joined #sandstorm
<kentonv> dwrensha: Apache 2 includes a license, from the authors, to all patents they might hold that are used in the work. However, if you sue the authors claiming the work infringes on your own patents, then you immediately lose the license to use the authors' patents.
amyers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<tannercollin> Any of you going to the Bay Area makerfaire?
DanC__ has quit [Quit: Ubuntu maintenance]
isd has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
jemc has joined #sandstorm
rgrinberg has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
jacksingleton has joined #sandstorm
jacksingleton has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Zarutian has quit [Quit: Zarutian]
frankier has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
jemc has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
raoulzecat has joined #sandstorm
frankier has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<asheesh> tannercollin: Hi!
<asheesh> I'm not currently planning on it! It'd be nice to do so, though.
<asheesh> Are you going? Are you thinking of maybe presenting about Sandstorm or something? : D
<ocdtrekkie> I just wanted to say, Sandstorm is the best place to run closed source software, if you're running closed source software. It's design makes it very hard for closed source apps to do naughty things, which negates the biggest potential problem with using closed source apps.
jadewang has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
raoulzecat has joined #sandstorm
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
Zarutian has joined #sandstorm
strugee has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
strugee has joined #sandstorm
ecloud has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ecloud has joined #sandstorm
ocdtrekkie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aldeka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aldeka has joined #sandstorm
ocdtrekkie has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
frankier has joined #sandstorm
Zarutian has quit [Quit: Zarutian]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<pdurbin> nice way of thinking about it
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
axx_ has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
dvn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
dvn has joined #sandstorm
aldeka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ocdtrekkie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aldeka has joined #sandstorm
ocdtrekkie has joined #sandstorm
rgrinberg has joined #sandstorm
raoulzecat has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
jemc has joined #sandstorm
amyers has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
amyers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
amyers has joined #sandstorm
xet7_ has joined #sandstorm
niekie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
raoulzecat has joined #sandstorm
amyers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
niekie has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
<tannercollin> asheesh: Yeah, I'd like to go! haha no, not thinking of presenting, just thought it would be cool to meet you guys
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
amyers has joined #sandstorm
amyers has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
rgrinberg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
aldeka has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ocdtrekkie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ocdtrekkie has joined #sandstorm
aldeka has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gabkdlly has joined #sandstorm
hunterm__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hunterm__ has joined #sandstorm
mnutt_ has joined #sandstorm
jacksingleton has joined #sandstorm
mnutt_ has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
Zarutian has joined #sandstorm
jacksingleton has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
gabkdlly has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
dwrensha has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dwrensha has joined #sandstorm
xet7_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
halindrome has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
halindrome has joined #sandstorm
* asheesh stretches.
<asheesh> tannercollin: Are you Bay Area-based?
<asheesh> If so, then maybe we can meet up at a Meetup! http://www.meetup.com/Sandstorm-SF-Bay-Area/
<dwrensha> it seems that Meteor.publish functions now get re-run when the user logs in or out?
<dwrensha> I think this is the right behavior
<dwrensha> but I'm pretty sure it was not previously the case, and I didn't see anything about it in the 1.3 release notes
<dwrensha> so I'm somewhat puzzled
<zarvox> dwrensha: they are rerun when this.userId changes
<zarvox> I believe this has always been the case?
<dwrensha> yeah, the my google search just now backs you up on that
<zarvox> it's the one thing you can assume updates reactively on serverside by default
<dwrensha> the "sessions" subscription should have automatically been re-subscribed to, making it not necessary for me to detect userId changes
<dwrensha> anyway, I'm tracking down some weird behavior... it'll probably have a fascinating explanation once I uncover it
<dwrensha> ah... the problem: our "root" route waits on the "grainsMenu" subscription...
<dwrensha> but the initial subscribe() call can happen before the user is logged in
<dwrensha> in which case "ready" doesn't mean what we intend
jadewang has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Zarutian has quit [Quit: Zarutian]
hexx has joined #sandstorm
<hexx> oh my god
<hexx> I have telescope installed
<hexx> and I'm trying to set up an RSS campaign in MailChimp using the RSS feed
<hexx> but it wants a username and password
<hexx> WAIT
<hexx> A webkey should work, right
<hexx> "That is not a valid URL"
<hexx> can I change the "#" out for anything
<hexx> nope
<gwillen> hmm, I have a curious thing that keeps happening, and I am curious if others see it
<gwillen> when I click to see what updates I have available, at first I see: "<blank white space>: version 2016.05.12 (8.7.1) is available"
<gwillen> and then after a moment the app names load
<gwillen> it's as though a font is still loading, except that both halves of the message appear to be in Source Sans, so I'm not sure what's up
<hexx> I once had that, a server restart fixed it for me
<gwillen> this is on alpha
<hexx> huh
frankier has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
hexx has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
jadewang has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
jadewang has joined #sandstorm
vidios has joined #sandstorm
jemc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]