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<paulproteus> Welcome michael_s
<paulproteus> Nice to have another person here. Feel free to just listen and hang out (aka "idle") here, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask them!
<michael_s> Hello.
<michael_s> Thank you, paulproteus. I came because I do have a question. I'm trying to install sandstorm on a Linux desktop.
<paulproteus> Cool.
<michael_s> I got all of the way through the install process, but when I try to install an application from the marketplace I get "Failed to install app: Error: connect(): Permission denied; toString() = unix:/var/sandstorm/socket/backend"
<paulproteus> michael_s: Hmm! Did you happen to install on top of an existing install?
<paulproteus> Or did you install twice?
<michael_s> Yup, my first install failed.
<michael_s> Just a sec, I have to put my kids to bed. Sorry, be back in a few.
<paulproteus> The summary is, you'll be happiest if you do:
<paulproteus> sudo service sandstorm stop
<paulproteus> sudo mv /opt/sandstorm /tmp/backup-of-old-sandstorm-install
<paulproteus> and re-install.
<michael_s> Excellent, I'll give that a try in a few minutes and post back the results.
<michael_s> Thank you.
<paulproteus> (-:
<paulproteus> Sorry about this bug. I look forward to fixing it real soon now.
<paulproteus> If you enjoy, or even don't enjoy, Sandstorm, I hope you'll consider emailing me at asheesh@sandstorm.io with your thoughts!
<paulproteus> (Naturally feel free to keep chatting here too, but if we get disconnected, then now you know how to reach me.)
<michael_s> Ha! I'm mike.swierczek@gmail.com, you already answered some of my questions on the mailing list. :)
<paulproteus> Ah great (-:
<paulproteus> I now see your request for a calendaring app.
<paulproteus> I think that'd be glorious.
<paulproteus> BTW how did you find out about Sandstorm?
<paulproteus> And it sounds like you're self-installing, which is great -- what led you to do a self-install rather than trust Oasis?
<michael_s> I have an Oasis account too, I'm signed up for a large or mega instance after it exits the beta.
<paulproteus> : D
<michael_s> But I wanted to take Sandstorm for a spin at home too. I also wanted to use it as a media center inside my house.
<paulproteus> Oh, neat.
<michael_s> I realize MediaGoblin and.. Wicket, is it? I'm not looking at the application right now so the name escapes me - can be installed without Sandstorm. But I figured I should try Sandstorm anyway.
<michael_s> (Well, not "should". How about "would give me an excuse".)
<paulproteus> : D
<paulproteus> Many things can be installed without Sandstorm.
<paulproteus> Our goal is that Sandstorm is the easiest (and safest) way to install & run them.
<paulproteus> For a while, someone was making Sandstorm itself work as a Sandstorm app.
<paulproteus> Which is confusing but hilarious. : D
<michael_s> The snake eating it's tail, eh? Neat. I have Groove Basin installed now, awesome. (Where did I get the name "Wicket" from? That has nothing to do with Groove Basin.)
<paulproteus> (I wondered the same thing re: Wicket)
<paulproteus> (which is fine)
<michael_s> As far as the Sandstorm security model is concerned, I'm fuzzy on how much of that is part of Sandstorm and how much is built into CapnProto. My weak understanding is that the security model is all CapnProto, Sandstorm just uses it and adds a nice graphical interface to it.
<paulproteus> The reverse is true, I'd say.
<paulproteus> https://docs.sandstorm.io/en/latest/developing/security-practices/ talks about the hardening Sandstorm itself does.
<michael_s> Oh interesting. So I have it backwards?
<paulproteus> It depends on your perspective, you could also say, but I think I'm right : P
<paulproteus> But I can explain/discuss for sure.
<paulproteus> If you imagine a world where every web app on a server is magically isolated from every other web app, and the only way they can communicate is via Cap'n Proto, then it's fair to say that Cap'n Proto is the one providing the security model.
<paulproteus> But there's a separate question of how to create fully confined/isolated web apps, given the realities of the web & web browsers.
<paulproteus> Making that real is the Sandstorm side of things.
<paulproteus> But maybe that's too hand-wavey and I should actually wait to ask a more specific question.
<michael_s> No, that's excellent. I was only seeking the 10,000 foot view (or 3000 or so meters :D ). That makes sense. Oh, and to answer a question you asked earlier - I found out about Sandstorm from the Kickstarter. I can't remember how I learned of the Kickstarter. Maybe there was an article on Slashdot?
<paulproteus> Could well be!
<paulproteus> Along those lines, for what it's worth, I would say the best way to contribute to the Sandstorm is to give a talk sharing your Sandstorm story. What you find useful, what you find frustrating, etc., in an honest way, with people near you, so they can think about if Sandstorm can help them.
<paulproteus> It happens to be true that I wrote the https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/wiki/Get-Involved page for the project, as well as wrote a Speaker Kit <https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/wiki/Speaker-Kit-Lightning-Talk> in case you decide you want to give a talk at a local Linux Users Group, etc.
<michael_s> I believe in what you and the Sandstorm project are doing, which is why I'm following it.
<paulproteus> : D
<paulproteus> All the more reason we should do what we can to answer your questions and help you get what you need out of the project.
<michael_s> I'll consider giving a talk on it. I live in the Philadelphia area. Unfortunately I've never been to the Linux User Group meetups, I didn't develop a strong interest in Linux until after I became a parent and my kids eat into my event calendar.
<michael_s> :)
<paulproteus> : D
<paulproteus> A common situation.
<paulproteus> I used to live in Philly, at 47th & Hazel, fwiw.
<paulproteus> I know JonathanD from the Philly Linux Users Group world.
<paulproteus> I was just in Philly in April or May, I forget! Should have said hi.
<michael_s> That would have been nice. But again, I don't get out much. :)
<michael_s> I actually live in Pottstown, about an hour drive northwest of the city (if you make the drive at 3 AM), maybe an hour and a half to two and a half hours away during daylight hours.
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<michael_s> I am sorry for taking up your Saturday evening, but if you have time I've got another question.
<michael_s> I installed Groove Basin, but when I try to launch it I get a Server Not Found error for the subdomain. I'm not using the sandcats.io DNS service.
<paulproteus> For which subdomain?
<paulproteus> Also I'm not sorry. I will have to go in like 20 minutes, but I'm happy to answer questions until then.
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<michael_s> I have in my /etc/hosts my IP address as mylastname.org and I installed Sandstorm to set up applications at *.mylastname.org:6080. I installed Groove Basin and MediaGoblin, but
<paulproteus> Oh maaaan.
<paulproteus> The problem is that /etc/hosts can't handle wildcards, but Sandstorm uses wildcards for each app session.
<michael_s> when I tried to launch them I get "Firefox can't find the server at z66o88bp2ch44j712tyy.mylastname.org"
<paulproteus> https://docs.sandstorm.io/en/latest/administering/wildcard/ rambles on about that, but I just gave you the one-sentence summary.
<paulproteus> You'd probably be happier if you either configure wildcard DNS for mylastname.org or use the actual username.sandcats.io subdomain URL.
<michael_s> I'm glad I asked! Thanks. That saves me a lot of heartache trying to track it down myself.
<paulproteus> L D
<paulproteus> I mean
<paulproteus> : D
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<michael_s> Okay. I had set up a sandcats.io subdomain but it didn't seem to work earlier. I'll go through the recovery process and try that again.
<paulproteus> Does your server have an internal IP address?
<paulproteus> e.g. 192.168.1.201
<paulproteus> If so, that'll basically definitely confuse sandcats.
<michael_s> Thanks again for the help there. I've been tinkering with Linux for years but I first started playing with /etc/hosts just a few weeks ago (for something unrelated to Sandstorm). I didn't know it can't work with wildcards.
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<michael_s> Sandcats needs a public IP?
<michael_s> It can't work through NAT?
<paulproteus> Your best bet, if so, is to configure port forwarding on your home wifi box ("gateway" "router" etc.) to redirect that port.
<michael_s> (I know very little about DNS except the broad concept of name <-> IP.)
<paulproteus> Sandcats sort of presumes that you are setting things up for the public Internet, and the way it works is that it detects the public IP address of whatever host is connecting to it, and then set username.sandcats.io to point to that public IP address.
<michael_s> Does it need both tcp and udp?
<paulproteus> Just TCP
<michael_s> I did set up the port forwarding.
<michael_s> I'll try again - but probably not tonight. Again, thank you for your help.
<paulproteus> For port 6080? If so, the _other_ problem is that some wifi boxes don't do this magic thing that is needed basically to make this work. In that case, you're probably best-served by https://serverfault.com/questions/118378/in-my-etc-hosts-file-on-linux-osx-how-do-i-do-a-wildcard-subdomain
<paulproteus> Maybe I should make this be an option, where people can choose what IP address their sandcats.io domain resolves to, so it can resolve to 192.168.x.y.
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<michael_s> Which magic thing?
<paulproteus> Trying to remember the name of the solution
<paulproteus> Basically most NAT boxes implement this but some of them don't and no one knows why but man does it make everyone sad to see when NAT boxes (aka home router, gateway, wifi box, etc.) don't implement this.
<paulproteus> As the story goes it's true that kentonv's doesn't either, so it's not like you're alone in this difficulty.
<mcpherrin> paulproteus: the naive way of setting up Linux iptables doesn't do hairpin
<paulproteus> Wait, really, mcpherrin?!
<paulproteus> TIL.
<mcpherrin> paulproteus: yeah, that's why it doesn't work a lot of the time :)
<paulproteus> o
<mcpherrin> You basically need to add one extra iptables rule...
<michael_s> :D I only know iptables well enough to be dangerous with it. Interesting.
<paulproteus> Well this is fascinating and mcpherrin you should tell michael_s what rule to add.
<michael_s> But would this be a problem all from the same machine? I was trying to access mylastname.sandcats.io from the same machine where I was installing Sandstorm, and it still didn't work.
<mcpherrin> because the "naive" way of setting up port forwards is something like
<mcpherrin> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -i $WANIFACE -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.144.15
<mcpherrin> but -i $WANIFACE obviously doesn't match packets coming in from the LAN
<paulproteus> michael_s: The "problem" is that the mylastname.sandcats.io host presumably resolves to your global IP address, not your LAN one.
<paulproteus> Test this by running:
<paulproteus> host mylastname.sandcats.io
<paulproteus> So, sadly, your wifi router manages to become involved, even though you didn't necessarily want it to.
<michael_s> You're correct, it does.
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<paulproteus> Howdy losvedir , saw you here a few days ago. Nice to see you again!
<paulproteus> Anyway, feel free to just hang out here, or ask questions. I work on Sandstorm full-time so am well-suited to be a person to answer your questions.
<losvedir> paulproteus: ha! thanks. yeah, just lurking. sandstorm seems really interesting to me, so just wanting to see what kind of things are going on with it
<losvedir> paulproteus: i really hope the future is more distributed than today. i like the idea of instead of there being facebook, twitter, gmail, etc, which owns everyone's data, instead there would be everyone maintaining their own server with their own data. people get their "cloud storage" that way, so they can see their photos on every device, but aren't paying for the ability to these behemoth centralized companies through advertising or
<losvedir> whatnot. and the costs aren't as great to host it yourself because you don't have to deal with billions of users. i'm sure facebook has economies of scale, but it has dis-economies, too
<michael_s> losvedir: I'm hopeful - not optimistic, but hopeful - that Sandstorm and projects like Storj.io (which mixes the concepts of cryptocurrency and cloud storage) and MaidSafe and Ethereum (which mix the concepts of cryptocurrency and distributed decentralized applications) will all mix and mingle over time to create a private, end-user-owned interne
<michael_s> t.
<losvedir> paulproteus: anyway, it's been on my mind and i've been kicking around how, e.g., bookface (a hypothetical sandstorm facebook app) would work. so, with that, i do have two concrete questions maybe you could direct me to the guides about? i'm trying to figure out the auth story and how users will work. i skimmed through the "App Developer Handbook" but don't fully grok it yet. 1) How do multiple people share a sandstorm instance? I'm
<losvedir> thinking if a family has their own server with sandstorm on it, how would each of the mother and father and kids have their own bookface profile? they wouldn't each need their own server with their own sandstorm would they? and 2) what exactly is the federation story? how do different bookface users connect their profiles to their friends with other sandstorm servers?
<losvedir> michael_s: "not optimistic, but hopeful", heh. yeah that's about where i am, too. all of those are interesting (well, didn't know about storj), so am curious to see what the future holds for these
<michael_s> paulproteus: if you're still here, I figured out what I had done wrong with my home wifi router settings (PBCAK - Problem Between Chair And Keyboard) and I'm up and running with a sandcats subdomain! Woot! Thank you again for your help.
<michael_s> losvedir: I don't know any of them in detail, really. I've done the most exploration of Sandstorm. But what I have learned I picked up from following some of them on twitter (and they referenced others) and reading sites like redding.com/r/darknetplan
<michael_s> I'm done for the night, I got Sandstorm running on a local Linux box. That was my big goal for today.
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<paulproteus> AFK a bit! Back in ~4h.
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<paulproteus> losvedir: Hey!
<paulproteus> I seem to have a sec after all.
<paulproteus> losvedir: 1) How multiple people share a Sandstorm install:
<paulproteus> They have separate user accounts, and the recommended way that a "bookface" might work is that each user runs their own instance by clicking "New Bookface" in Sandstorm.
<paulproteus> I would say Sandstorm is currently more optimized for the "Personal-size Google Docs" interface and less-so the "Personal-size social network" use-case, but I want to make sure the UI is useful for the latter, too.
<paulproteus> One way I imagine that working in the long run is that in Sandstorm, when someone logs into their user account, they see recommended apps they should make an instance of, recommended by the server admin, and then when they click those, it's supremely easy to opt in to "federating" with the other "bookface" installs on the same server & elsewhere.
<paulproteus> micahd: Yay!
<paulproteus> michael_s, even.
<paulproteus> micahd: I'm sure you're great, too!
<paulproteus> losvedir: Do you have an account on a Sandstorm install anywhere, yet?
<losvedir> paulproteus: i see, thanks for the info. regarding (2), I saw kenton's HN comment from a while ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7464438) and wasn't sure how far along it was from "idea of how it will work" to "here's the documentation"
<losvedir> yeah, i set up something on oasis a couple days ago, still want to play around with it more. thanks for the warm welcome to the IRC channel :) i'll probably just continue to lurk until I can get some free time to work on something
<paulproteus> (-:
<losvedir> paulproteus: just to wrap up, though, regarding kenton's comment there. is there actually documentation about "connecting to other people's servers through Cap'n Proto RPC interfaces"? or is that still on the roadmap?
<paulproteus> It's mostly still on the roadmap. There definitely aren't docs for it yet, but we have a half-working Diaspora package somewhere.
<paulproteus> Half-working because we needed to patch the Diaspora federation protocol and then got stuck.
<paulproteus> That's the docs that we do have for the inter-server communication stuff that does work already.
<losvedir> got it, thanks
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<ocdtrekkie> paulproteus: At what stage does a offer templated key appear on the webkey revocation dialog? Do I have to plug them into an app first?
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<paulproteus> ocdtrekkie: Yeah -- the keys you see are short-lived, and once you use one, they become fully active, and show up for revocation.
<paulproteus> At least, that's how it's supposed to work!
<paulproteus> As I understand it.
<ocdtrekkie> Okay, so the webkey dialog can't really go away, it just can become less important since you'll only need it if you need to revoke a key.
<paulproteus> Yeah, though hypothetically we could move that revocation to "Share...".
<paulproteus> Under "See who has access".
<paulproteus> P.S. As always, thanks for asking questions like this.
<ocdtrekkie> You'd probably still want to specify the difference between keys and shares.
<ocdtrekkie> Offer templates, AFAIK, was never really explained to everyone else.
<paulproteus> Yeah, but that can (hypothetically) still be done by making a differnt section under "See who has access".
<paulproteus> Yeah, as far as I can tell, you're totally right about that ocdtrekkie.
<paulproteus> Presumably we should fix that by doing something. A question I have is -- what should we do? : P
<ocdtrekkie> Is it in the docs?
<paulproteus> Nope.
<paulproteus> Neither for developers nor for users.
<ocdtrekkie> (I updated some docs yesterday!)
<ocdtrekkie> Offer templates should probably be in the developer docs. It ideally shouldn't be important for users to know.
<ocdtrekkie> 'Just works' and such.
<paulproteus> +1
<paulproteus> Guess I should review your new changes! brb
<ocdtrekkie> No rush, lol. It's a weekend.
<paulproteus> Well please enjoy more review.
<ocdtrekkie> Responded to review. :)
<ocdtrekkie> I am not at all bothered by it FWIW. I, myself, feel compelled to point out issues even when I myself consider them pedantic. ;)
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<paulproteus> : D
<ocdtrekkie> Fixed Github. Also check the additional commits I made last night please. I did to mkdocs.yml and edited the raw publishing guide.
<paulproteus> (I have no point, I just want to say) var gitHub = /Github/;
<ocdtrekkie> Lol
<ocdtrekkie> So yeah, my biggest question is in how strong signing is pushed.
<paulproteus> Yeah I was typing something in to GitHub about that.
<paulproteus> Here's the words I had:
<paulproteus> I guess if you say up-top that there are two steps -- (1) verifying your identity, which is optional but totally recommended everyone else is doing it and really you should too and (2) adding screenshots etc.
<paulproteus> but I hadn't finished it yet.
<paulproteus> I think pushing signing hard is smart.
<paulproteus> I just think that it sounds much scarier than the "Add screenshots" stuff.
<paulproteus> So we might as well scare people later, even though yes we do want to scare the eventually.
<paulproteus> s/scare the/scare them/
<ocdtrekkie> Because I am +1 on (optional but recommended) in the heading title, I'd just rather not make people jump around the document.
<paulproteus> To be a little harsh maybe:
<paulproteus> In your existing version you don't tell people _what_ to do when you say the meaning of pgpKeyring anyway.
<paulproteus> Oh but I guess your point is that you handle it by having them already have filled that out.
<paulproteus> So never mind.
<ocdtrekkie> Yeah, if we move it around some of the explanation needs to move around as well.
<paulproteus> But since they're optional, we could also let people skip them! But we don't really _want_ them too. Hmm.
<ocdtrekkie> I think we have to explain above the first pgp-related thing. And I'd rather have that in the section for Keybase and such.
<ocdtrekkie> (I am just voicing thoughts, I am mostly okay with either.)
<paulproteus> One perspective on this is that the "Add required metadata" is not a reference list of all the metadata available, just the market-related mandatory metadata.
<paulproteus> In which case, I think it makes sense to list only a subset of the metadata in there, in which case we can literally not mention the PGP stuff until the next section.
<ocdtrekkie> That is true. It doesn't go over the rest of the pkgdef.
<ocdtrekkie> Well, I did the whole metadata structure though. In the correct order.
<paulproteus> https://jacobian.org/writing/what-to-write/ describes a difference between "Topical guides" and "Reference" material.
<paulproteus> I figure this thing is a Topical guide, and the capnp is the Reference material
<ocdtrekkie> I honestly don't think a capnp file in the source should be considered 'reference'.
<paulproteus> zingtastic
<paulproteus> : D
<ocdtrekkie> I just don't ever want an answer to a question to be 'read the source'.
<paulproteus> Part of me wants to say "I think we need topical guides more than we need reference documentation."
<paulproteus> But now I wonder if I'm actually wrong about that.
<paulproteus> What I need is like a what is it it called Marlow's Priorities or something of documentation.
<paulproteus> of documentation
<ocdtrekkie> Lol
<ocdtrekkie> I think there is probably a point where it may make sense to make them separate pages even.
<ocdtrekkie> But I wanted to keep it simple for now.
<paulproteus> Nodtastic. I just wonder if "simple" means "reference" or if "simple" means "topical guide".
<paulproteus> My hunch is it means "topical guide" in which case it should be like "Do these things, we're here to help, we're showing you what you need in the order you need it."
<paulproteus> But of course e.g. kpreid has already complained that the vagrant-spk docs are tutorial-heavy.
<paulproteus> > Think of guides and reference as partners: guides give you the “why,” and reference gives you the “how.”\
<paulproteus> If we believe that, then maybe we can make the doc shorter somehow.
<paulproteus> By focusing on making an informative preface, and then diving into things the way you are suggesting.
<paulproteus> Proposal:
<ocdtrekkie> I am definitely not an expert on making tutorials and guides and sucb.
<ocdtrekkie> Such*
<paulproteus> Create a new section before "Verify your identity" which is called "Overview" that says just the briefest things someone needs to know, like what the point of the Keybase stuff is.
<paulproteus> And what the general point of the other metadata is.
<paulproteus> I think that could be like 1-5 sentences or bullet points.
<paulproteus> And then keep the rest as-is, with a slight nod to the fact that "Verify your identity" is optional.
<paulproteus> I can also deal with you delegating that section to me if you're OK with it.
<paulproteus> But I'm also curious what you think.
<ocdtrekkie> I am totally cool with it.
<ocdtrekkie> Both re: overview and re: if you wanna do it.
<paulproteus> Well mostly I'm offering to do it in case it's boring or stressful for you. I'm A-OK with you doing it. (-:
<ocdtrekkie> I'm just thinking that at the point I'm just a relay for what you're thinking, I'm a roadblock to progress. ;)
<paulproteus> Hah. OK. Hmm.
<paulproteus> Well in that case, I can write that intro, and your thing is A-OK.
<paulproteus> And I should merge it & regenerate docs because the introlessness is not a showstopper.
<ocdtrekkie> Also, app market button. Though the app market button should probably be renamed.
<ocdtrekkie> 'Upload App' -> a wiki/docs article is unexpected behavior.
<paulproteus> Oh, interesting.
<paulproteus> Do file a bug against the app market.
<paulproteus> IMHO we should massively minimize that UI element anyway.
<ocdtrekkie> I know that was a last minute change. But yeah, it pulls you straight out of the site you're on there.
<ocdtrekkie> I will file that now.
<ocdtrekkie> Filed.
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<paulproteus> I may go to sleep! I am grateful for these docs.
<paulproteus> Write the ducks.
<paulproteus> OK I need sleep. Also isn't it late where you are? Wait don't answer that.
<ocdtrekkie> Yes, but I slept like from 8PM to midnight for some reason.
<ocdtrekkie> So now I'm awake.
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<paulproteus> Howdy Takumi , nice to have more people around here. Feel free to just listen and hang out (aka "idle") or ask questions.
<paulproteus> I'm one of the Sandstorm core developers, so am often a good person to bounce ideas off.
<paulproteus> Also if I did say hi to you before, oops, sorry about any duplication.
<Takumi> Hi.
<Takumi> I just recently got a server that can actually run sandstorm and was trying out gitlab today, but I seem to be having trouble adding it as a remote.
<paulproteus> Oh, interesting.
<paulproteus> The GitLab package uses base64 username & password for authentication, in Sandstorm, and that might be the source of your issues.
<paulproteus> Did you try the copy-paste instructions, and does "cloning" work, at least?
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<Takumi> I went to the clone code and copied what looked like relevant stuff out of it. I'll try cloning and see if it works.
<paulproteus> Great.
<Takumi> Now it simply says "repository not found".
<paulproteus> Hmm. Did you execute both lines that it says?
<paulproteus> The first line sets up a password for you to use, if that helps to know.
<paulproteus> And the password is necessary for routing to the right git repo.
<Takumi> Yep, both of them. I refreshed the page to make sure no token was out of date or anything, copied it again and still got not found.
<paulproteus> Weird. Can you do me a favor and see if you can reproduce this problem on demo.sandstorm.io by making a GitLab repo there?
<Takumi> Oh, the demo one cloned just fine.
<paulproteus> Oh, fascinating.
<paulproteus> Are you OK with making a new GitLab grain on your server, and making a sharing link, and sending me that sharing link, either as asheesh@sandstorm.io or by private IRC message?
<paulproteus> Then I can see if I can reproduce the problem and diagnose further.
<paulproteus> You were saying by PM that the one you created yesterday doesn't work, but the one you created now does work.
<paulproteus> One possible reason for that is that these tokens that we show you as the passwords are short-lived until you use them.
<paulproteus> So if you do 'git remote add' but you don't 'git fetch', then the git remote will fail to work. )-:
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<paulproteus> I'm frowning because I can see that this is probably confusing -- it's not like we _say_ that they auto-expire anywhere.
<paulproteus> And they only auto-expire if you don't use them.
<paulproteus> Takumi: Do you think that explains it?
<Takumi> Maybe?
<Takumi> I tried git fetch on the test repo when in a new empty repo directory on my local machine, and it said couldn't find HEAD
<Takumi> Wait, do you do git remote add and then git fetch
<paulproteus> Yeah, you'd need to do that to make the token "stick".
<paulproteus> BTW apologies that this is all kind of weird.
<paulproteus> Thanks for your patience and hopefully we can use this feedback to figure out how to make things easier to use.
<Takumi> That *seemed* to have added it right but I apparently totally don't understand pushing... http://pastebin.com/kq6qKsx9
<paulproteus> Oh you need to add something to your repo before you can push.
<paulproteus> e.g.
<paulproteus> touch README
<paulproteus> git add README
<paulproteus> git commit -m 'Adding empty README'
<paulproteus> And then do your push stuff.
<paulproteus> I notice that "error: src refspec master does not match any" message which I recognize as being related to this empty repo thing.
<Takumi> I put some files in there (copied from the initial old repo I was trying to move) and did forget to add them, but when I ran git add and tried again the same thing happened.
<paulproteus> And did you "git commit" as well?
<paulproteus> To put it another way -- if you do 'git log' does that show some history? Or does 'git log' show an error message instead?
<Takumi> ...I forgot that too. When I did that it managed to push to the test repo. I'll see if the one from yesterday works now...
<paulproteus> Great! You might need to make a new key, depending on the details.
<paulproteus> But the key stuff might have been a red herring.
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<Takumi> It's consistently saying repo not found when I remove remote, add remote on yesterday's repo (after refreshing its page), and run git fetch
<paulproteus> Oh, I see.
<paulproteus> I didn't realize your repo was empty.
<paulproteus> So "git fetch" doesn't make sense on an empty repo.
<paulproteus> But if you git _push_ that should work fine.
<Takumi> I ran git push and again, repo.git not found.
* paulproteus ponders.
<paulproteus> I think the problem is some combination of the above, but it's hard to know without the exact console log.
<paulproteus> I can write you a shell script that demonstrates how to do this in a way that does work, that helps.
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<paulproteus> (Talked with Takumi more, they'll send me an email.)