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<simon_weber>
asking for a friend - what's the preferred intro text/tutorial these days? I'm about to recommend the bastards book
<GoHuyGo>
hartl?
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<GoHuyGo>
nevermind
<GoHuyGo>
thought this was rails channel :p
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<davidcelis>
simon_weber: ruby koans
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<davidcelis>
simon_weber: if he's new to programming, Lean to Program by Chris Pine is good
<davidcelis>
simon_weber: if he's not a beginner programmer but new to ruby, i'd say The Well Grounded Rubyist
<simon_weber>
yeah, I should have added that - limited programming experience
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<davidcelis>
then i'd say the Chris Pine book
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<simon_weber>
davidcelis: great; thanks
<davidcelis>
sure thing buddy
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<makerbreaker>
im having some trouble with a ruby nad an API gem im using
<makerbreaker>
I keep getting java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number, when passing an argument
<makerbreaker>
but i call it with @obj.to_i
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<makerbreaker>
if i replace the @obj, with just '1' it works
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<jeeky>
Hey! does anyone have any experience sending an HTTP POST request with headers and a body via Mechanize?
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<seoaqua>
any suggestion for ruby gems to read or create mind maps?
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<ghanima>
hello all
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<ghanima>
question I am playing around with the Resolv library and I am looking at some data structures that I haven't seent before and I am not sure what kinda of collection this is it look like an array http://pastebin.com/HgV1Y2Eu
<ghanima>
but when I try to parse it all the values come back as nil
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<tammater>
hi
<sent-hil>
ghanima: looks like an array of Resolv::DNS::Resource instances
<ghanima>
but when I try to do a
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<ghanima>
print ress[#]
<ghanima>
it prints some instance object but that is it and there is more in the data structure that doesn't appear as simple element
<sent-hil>
have to tried to print with #each?
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<sent-hil>
or obj.inspect
<ghanima>
sorry I am not familiar with those methods is #each a method of print
<ghanima>
obj.inspect does what exactly?
<sent-hil>
[your_array].each {|x| x.inspect}
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<ghanima>
what is the inspect method
<sent-hil>
inspect provides a readable output of the object
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<ghanima>
So I see something like this "#<Resolv::DNS::Resource::IN::NS:0x007f858a895190 @name=#<Resolv::DNS::Name: ns-944.amazon.com.>, @ttl=600>"
<ghanima>
is this a sub array
<sent-hil>
that's an object
<ghanima>
never seen anything that starts like #<>
<sent-hil>
that's just formatting, its Resolv::DNS::Resource::IN::NS object
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<ghanima>
sent-hil: OH that god ok... thanks man I was racking my brain on this one
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<ghanima>
sent-hil: so just to be clear... This "#<Resolv::DNS:\:Resource::IN:\:NS:0x007f858a895190 @name=#<Resolv::DNS::Name: ns-944.amazon.com.>, @ttl=600>"
<ghanima>
to that entore string is an the full array element of the object
<sent-hil>
umm, array element of the object?
<sent-hil>
that entire thing is just one object
<sent-hil>
they're returning multiple objects like that in an array
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<sent-hil>
laptop battery running out, gotta go
<ghanima>
thanks sent-hil
<sent-hil>
you bet
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<flaccid_>
i'm doing a `domainname` =~ /(none)/ but for some reason its not matching. the parenthesis is text. because this is regex, do i need to escape the brackets for it to match or something?
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<Quadlex>
Non-threadsafe libraries make me cry
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<RubyPanther>
That's why we love the GIL
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<Hanmac>
Quadlex the problem is easy ... when you have an Non-threadsafe c++lib you cant make an threadsafe binding ...
<Hanmac>
and when you get angry why the c++ lib is not threadsafe, ask the guys at #Ogre for sample
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<sent-hil>
i think the port is already being used
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<RichieEvan>
hello ruby I've decided to start learning you, hopefully it will be a fun journey
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<bigmac>
how do i retry if socket gives me error
<bigmac>
retry if sock=TCPSocket.open("www.facebook.com",80)==@error
<bnagy>
begin .. rescue retry end
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<bigmac>
its just rescute on the next line after sock=TCPSocket.open("www.facebook.com",80)
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<bigmac>
begin rescue retry else end
<bnagy>
no else
<bnagy>
begin; #do stuff; rescue; retry; end
<bnagy>
as soon as it doesn't error it will continue after end
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<bigmac>
what was print "last #{@error}"
<bigmac>
%error
<bigmac>
im not sure
<bnagy>
?
<bnagy>
last error is in $! - warn "Failed - #{$!}"
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<bigmac>
$! ,-)
<bigmac>
thank you
<bigmac>
i new some one named bnagy
<bigmac>
253 ?
<bnagy>
it's a very common hungarian surname
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<alex88>
hi guys, can i ask here for ruby on rails within apache mod passenger support? because i'm trying to run graylog2 within passenger and i have to select the production environment
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<drub>
hello all am fairly new to programming and ruby in particular and was wondering if anyone could help show me how to writer a tree iterator with different levels in ruby?
<Hanmac>
alex88 #rubyonrails
<alex88>
Hanmac: thank you!
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<shevy>
drub hmm
<shevy>
I have an ascii tree :P
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<shevy>
drub the convention is in ruby, that upcased names are constants
<shevy>
Dir is a constant
<shevy>
Dir() is a method call however
<shevy>
you will always see things like:
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<shevy>
module Foo, or, class Bar
<shevy>
and never
<shevy>
module foo, class bar
<shevy>
you see that distinction?
<drub>
oh ok
<drub>
yes i do
<shevy>
Dir should be available though... I am not sure why you get this odd error "undefined method Dir"
<drub>
Dir.class returns Class
<timmow>
is !!array.index {|x| x.prop == value} the best way to check for existence of an object with certain condition in an enumerable / array and give boolean result?
<Hanmac>
it seems he uses Dir() but he should use Dir[]
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<drub>
no i actually used Dir[]
<shevy>
drub ok so we now know, Dir exists
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<shevy>
drub when I do this Dir['/*'] in irb, I get back an array with the entries of my filesystem at /
<shevy>
if that does not work for you, then something is odd
<shevy>
you could try to put this into a .rb file though and call it
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<shevy>
like, create a new file... test.rb
<shevy>
and put this into it:
<drub>
oh its ok now
<shevy>
puts Dir['/*'].join ', '
<shevy>
ok good
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<shevy>
with Dir[] you can also get all subdirectories, and their contents
<shevy>
Dir['/*/**']
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<shevy>
now, if you want to count the level, you could count the numbers of "/"
<shevy>
you could build a hash from this array
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<shevy>
to count how many characters are in a string you can use .count
<shevy>
like "abc/def/ghi".count('/')
<shevy>
would return 2
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<shevy>
ruby is like a very succint dialect of english language :)
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<drub>
am loving it a lot
<drub>
just a bit anxious coz i have a ton of homework and its a bit advanced for my level
<shevy>
yeah it takes a little while to get used to things
<shevy>
but, all the scripting languages are quite similar
<drub>
so am kind of learning it on the go
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<shevy>
so when you learned one, it should be easy to learn another scripting language
<shevy>
I learned (the little I know about) Regexes from a perl book
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<drub>
thank you very much for all the help today though
<Xeago>
even tho everyone says there's no magic in python and python hates magic
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<shevy>
hmm Xeago
<shevy>
if you would have to pick from: perl, php, python. but you can pick only one... for your own use, but also when you need to work for clients, which one would you pick?
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<drub>
ok am out have a good one shevy and thanks again!
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<ndrei>
Hello
<ndrei>
I'm having some issues with Pry. 'show-doc' doesn't work properly, for instance, 'show-doc File.read' generates this error 'Error: Cannot locate this method: read. Try `gem install pry-doc` to get access to Ruby Core documentation.'
<ndrei>
I've installed the 'pry-doc' gem, but still, the same
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<ndrei>
This issue also occurs with ri, so 'ri File.read' generates 'File.read not found, maybe you meant: File::read_binary'
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<Hanmac>
ndrei whats your ruby version?
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<Hanmac>
File.read is "new" ... maybe your ruby version is to old :(
<ij>
Are the same Fixnums' object_ids in other ruby implementations the same? (thus 3 === 3?)
<Hanmac>
3.object_id returns 7 for me
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<ij>
clarification: other than MRI*
<Hanmac>
jruby shows 7 too
<ij>
Cool.
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<shevy>
is there something like webmin for ruby? webmin is written in perl mostly, and a few .sh shell scripts
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* shevy
pokes Hanmac
<Hanmac>
... what does webmin?
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<Xeago>
why do oyu want an administration interface in a specific language
<Xeago>
who cares what it is written in, what matters is what it can administer
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<ij>
Xeago, Maybe he wants to edit it.
<Xeago>
there's a plugin adapter for that
<ij>
edit != writing plugins
<Xeago>
wanting to edit a project for some goal, without knowing any of it's functionality or features is weird to me
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<ij>
It's shevy.
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<invisime>
turns out, creating a chroot jail is harder than I thought.
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<ij>
invisime, What exactly did you find hard about it?
<ij>
IMO it's rather easy.
<ij>
The securing part?
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<invisime>
ij: the getting the bins and libs in there correctly.
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<Hanmac>
invisime the bast bot has only a few bins
<ij>
I did that with the pkg manager, simply by setting different root directory.
<ij>
Archlinux powery.
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<Xeago>
invisime: did you try vagrant?
<Hanmac>
this are the bins the last bot has, ["usr/bin/timeout", "usr/bin/node", "usr/bin/ruby", "usr/bin/gem", "usr/bin/sudo", "usr/bin/pkill"]
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<invisime>
Xeago: yeah, the chef files confused the crap out of me.
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<invisime>
Xeago: and I don't think my intended host box would deal well with running a complete VM under the hood. it was originally intended to just be a file server.
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<invisime>
Hanmac: the bins are the problem as much as the ldds. at least since I've decided to make the install process more push button so the next guy can get set up easier.
<invisime>
aren't*
<moshef>
why do I see, in documentation of methods (of rails for example) people refer to the params/variables as +param_name+ ? any reason?
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<invisime>
moshef: that's so the rdoc formats all nicely.
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<invisime>
moshef: I think the + is for fixed width font?
<Hanmac>
invisime ... symlinks are not possible or?
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<invisime>
Hanmac: not symbolic ones, anyway. and hard links to important binaries kind of scare me.
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<Hanmac>
are you sure sympolic does not work? ... ask the bot creator how he manage that ...
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<invisime>
Hanmac: he said he just copied. but he did so manually. and, as I said, I want to make an outcome of this to be push-button installation.
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<invisime>
a big part of the problem is that my bash-fu isn't where it needs to be.
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<moshef>
invisime: THANKS
<Xeago>
invisime: do it manually in a vagrant
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<Xeago>
make it a box
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<Xeago>
and then it's just re-installing that box
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<Xeago>
whenever something needs to be changed, make the change how you'd want to (no editing of scripts that set up the environment), and make the box
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<Xeago>
invisime: if you can send me the instructions jraf sent you, I'll see if I have time to make a vagrantbox
<invisime>
Xeago: two objections to that: 1) I'd probably have to learn chef, which I'm not particularly interested in. 2) I don't think my intended host can run a virtualbox instance.
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<invisime>
Xeago: that might solve the first problem, but probably not the second one. pm me your email?
<Xeago>
vagrantboxes usually require little memory, the default is around 256-300 mb
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<Xeago>
I've ran 4 hlds's in vagrant with 512mb, 64 players max, then memory became an issue
<invisime>
Xeago: maybe I'm over-estimating how much I'd have to dedicate to VM.
<Xeago>
not sure what the usage of al2o3cr is, anyone has information on this?
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<invisime>
Xeago: you just run "ruby bot.rb".
<invisime>
Xeago: one of the other things I was thinking of doing was writing a small init.d script to bring the bot up and down.
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<Xeago>
well, I do understand what chrooting is, but not how to accomplish it, lol
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<Xeago>
gotta read the email a few more times
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<shevy>
Xeago it's not about the interface, it is what one can do in the respective language
<shevy>
it's like with PHP - it's a fairly awful language as a whole, but mediawiki is awesome and so is phpbb
<Xeago>
am still baffled
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<workmad3>
Xeago: iirc, chrooting is just done with the 'chroot' command
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<Xeago>
mediawiki is unsuitable for the tasks it fulfills - The authors..
<workmad3>
Xeago: the harder part of a chroot jail is making sure you have the right stuff available in it
<shevy>
wikipedia is still the largest wiki on planet earth
<Xeago>
shevy: agree :)
<shevy>
it's not that good though
<shevy>
I'd wish they would change some things, often when reading an article, I seem to be overwhelmed with details that are not really important :(
<Xeago>
there's the simple english language for that lol
<Xeago>
tho, the coverage is low
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<workmad3>
shevy: you could always add a summary section to articles where you find that's the case
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<shevy>
we need some kind of brilliant AI that rewrites all of wikipedia with a certain style
<shevy>
like a teacher
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<Xeago>
lol
<workmad3>
shevy: nice idea
<workmad3>
shevy: shame I don't think it would work :P
<workmad3>
shevy: one style does not fit all
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<shevy>
:(
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<workmad3>
shevy: I think even you would agree that a good style for writing up a comic book series would not be the same as a good style for talking about quantum tunnelling
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<shevy>
hey
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<shevy>
I had a friend who only looked at the pictures in comics :)
<workmad3>
shevy: hah :D
<shevy>
he collected like all donald duck books back then
<shevy>
workmad3, well, something like a teacher who would be more clever and could know what kind of answers one would desire
<workmad3>
shevy: yes, but that's an even more advanced AI :P
<Xeago>
shevy: I've rarely seen teachers that are that good lol
<shevy>
perhaps a learning AI for every human being
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<shevy>
Xeago hehe yeah
<shevy>
there are some who know a lot, but who fail at giving a good lecture
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<invisime>
shevy: actually, you laugh, but I read an article about doing the opposite: an AI that every student teaches. not to make the AI smarter, but to give the student the practice of explaining something.
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<Hanmac>
invisime what would really cool: an AI/Robot that really "belives" that is human :P
<lolzie>
Hanmac: quite likely the first "real" AI would do that
<lolzie>
Hanmac: Human Brain Project, heard of that?
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<Hanmac>
yeah i heard
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<shevy>
invisime hmm that isn't bad, often when trying to explain something to someone else, one can quickly notice if one has success at that or fails
<shevy>
though, teaching an AI sounds a bit ... geeky
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<Hanmac>
shevy but if this works ... it would cool
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<Hanmac>
better would be an AI wich could read and understand what it reads ... :D
<invisime>
shevy: yeah, I couldn't find the article I was talking about. it hides the innards. since a school kid is probably going to have a harder time with a concept map than they would with the fraction/decimal conversions or whatever they're supposed to be learning.
<invisime>
Hanmac: that field is called natural language processing.
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<invisime>
and it's hard.
<Hanmac>
so it does not work yet? :(
<workmad3>
invisime: it's not just natural language processing, it's also getting into what 'understanding' actually means
<Xeago>
soon we no longer have programming languages! we'll just write english
<Xeago>
and then we can point our compiler at wikipedia
<lolzie>
Hanmac: in my lifetime, we are forecasted to have the computing power to not only run one human brain, but the entire human races'
<Xeago>
and we have all the programs in the world :D
<lolzie>
Matrix time!
<invisime>
workmad3: in order to resolve many types of ambiguity, the ontology has to be there.
<Hanmac>
i want to met the first AI wich read and understand the entire wikipedia :D
<workmad3>
invisime: yes, but does an ontolgy actually constitute 'understanding'?
<invisime>
workmad3: by my interpretation of the chinese room, yes.
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<workmad3>
invisime: even with an ontology, it's still just transforming one symbol into another
<failshell>
hello. does anyone know of a gem that would list installed packages on a machine? like RPMs or dpkgs?
<invisime>
workmad3: even with your squishy brainmeats, you're still just transforming one symbol into another. :-P
<workmad3>
invisime: yes, so do we actually 'understand' things?
<workmad3>
invisime: this is the issue ;)
<invisime>
workmad3: <3
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<workmad3>
invisime: which gets to the root of what 'understand' actually means :)
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<workmad3>
invisime: and we don't know enough about squishy brainmeats to know if, fundamentally, we are just transforming symbols or if something else is occuring
<invisime>
workmad3: we are capable of understanding things enough for lossy data storage/transmission to take place.
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<invisime>
workmad3: not in an exact way, but conceptually, it's some kind of computation. the same way (without appropriate debuggers), you don't know what the assembly or machine language looks like for any code you're running. nor could you predict which nand gates point which way on the chip at any given tick.
<invisime>
workmad3: the systems are just too complex to hold all of the metalevels in your head at once.
<workmad3>
invisime: yes, but I know that the nand gates are actually being invoked and performing that style of computation
<lolzie>
I would imagine Ketamine has great potential for inspiring AI designers.
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<workmad3>
invisime: the same is not true with thought processes... we don't know that consciousness is actually operating in that fashion, it's just a good way to think about it
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<lolzie>
Especially when combined with MDMA too.
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<workmad3>
invisime: which is what I mean... we don't know that squishy brainmeats work in the same conceptual way as computation, or if something fundamentally different is going on but can to some extent be modelled by symbolic transformation
<workmad3>
invisime: sort of like the difference between newtonian mechanics and relativity
<invisime>
workmad3: I believe that brains are turing complete. :-P
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<workmad3>
invisime: believe away, my point is that it hasn't been proven ;)
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<workmad3>
invisime: it's an unknown... are brains actually operating under turing complete limitations, or are we fundamentally different
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<invisime>
workmad3: of course not. neuroscience is still looking for its first dominant scientific paradigm.
<lolzie>
I believe the human brain is an autonomous information gathering system with established goals. It operates upon its gathered information to perform evaluations to lead towards these goals.
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<invisime>
lolzie: they're not established. they're based on complex interactions with other wetware via hormones and neural stimulus.
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<lolzie>
invisime: the goals may be revised, I don't deny that
<lolzie>
But any time it is operating, it has goals established. Mutable.
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<lolzie>
These are revelations poignantly discovered on the influence of a combination of Ketamine/MDMA recently.
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<lolzie>
A truly profound combination, I feel upgraded after the experience as a biocomputer.
<shevy>
hehe
<workmad3>
I'm dubious of any claims made under the influence of chemicals that provably alter the way the brain works
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<invisime>
lolzie: self-hacking is dangerous. but potentially rewarding.
<lolzie>
workmad3: I love you, let's see
<lolzie>
workmad3: are you asserting that the Darwinian survivalism has produced the very most perfect optimal human brain
<workmad3>
that said, I'm also dubious of claims made not under said influence
<shevy>
workmad3, what about natural drugs. when you are running for one hour straight and the body gives out dopamine and endorphines
<shevy>
those are chemicals too!
<workmad3>
lolzie: fuck no :)
<workmad3>
I'm just dubious of claims ;)
<invisime>
^
<shevy>
I am going to hack on me a third arm on my back
<lolzie>
workmad3: as you should be, let me tell you though
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<lolzie>
The other night, I was more objective than ever. And it has rubbed off on me still, as habit.
<workmad3>
lolzie: how do you know you were more objective than ever?
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<lolzie>
I was talking with my friend, for approx 10 hours straight. I was communicating incredible amounts of information in short spaces of time - complex concepts, talking fast.
<workmad3>
lolzie: how do you know that the drugs weren't just making you think you were more objective than other while actually altering your biases and making you even more biased and irrational than usual?
<workmad3>
s/other/ever
<shevy>
lolzie about which topics
<workmad3>
lolzie: was your friend also under the influence?
<workmad3>
lolzie: was his judgement also potentially compromised?
<lolzie>
workmad3: we both shared a quantifiably improved rate of understanding - not once did he not understand what I said. It was as if we were sharing a whiteboard, or a mental universe/scratchpad between us
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<lolzie>
And we had the exact same model of ideas in our heads. That is communication, after all. But it was so much more effective than usual.
<workmad3>
lolzie: and is it quantifiable?
<workmad3>
lolzie: or is that a subjective viewpoint?
<lolzie>
workmad3: indeed he was; but the feedback of conversation proved he knew exactly what I was talking about
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<workmad3>
lolzie: can you categorically prove that your judgement of that fact wasn't compromised by the drugs?
<lolzie>
You could analyse it statistically, for sure. Less times than usual (never) did he say "what do you mean", yet I was talking faster than usual. Very cogently.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: or is it possible that the drugs actually impaired your judgement so that you were actually more likely to accept incomplete understanding?
<lolzie>
workmad3: I admire your skepticism
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<lolzie>
workmad3: it seems incredibly unlikely. What he was saying matched my mental models of the ideas
<lolzie>
I would have to be recreating the past in my head
<workmad3>
lolzie: entirely possible even without drugs
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<workmad3>
lolzie: false memories that seem real is a provable phenomenon
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<lolzie>
workmad3: I know
<lolzie>
workmad3: yes but in this such precise and repeatable manner, with such intricate ideas, highly unlikely
<workmad3>
lolzie: except that your judgement and mental state was potentially compromised
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<lolzie>
workmad3: it is beyond the point of reasonable doubt to me
<workmad3>
lolzie: science doesn't work like a court of law... reasonable doubt isn't the metric to judge by
<lolzie>
The way the conversation flowed, so engaged, everything so relevant
<lolzie>
workmad3: OH.
<lolzie>
workmad3: we discussed the next day what we had spoken about.
<lolzie>
Completely consistent.
<workmad3>
lolzie: that doesn't mean you haven't actually reached different conclusions
<lolzie>
workmad3: we spoke considerably the next day because we found the previous night so profound. We were in complete agreement about our findings
<workmad3>
lolzie: besides, anecdotal evidence isn't enough to go by for forming conclusions... it's an interesting hypothesis that might be worth further investigation under more rigourous frameworks though ;)
<lolzie>
workmad3: agreed, I assert nothing more
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<lolzie>
workmad3: what the true beauty of our mental workings during that period was the apparent ability to completely shed one's mental model of assumptions.
<lolzie>
Starting from complete scratch, apparently.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that I'd take as evidence against your viewpoint tbh
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<workmad3>
lolzie: it's impossible to start from scratch without assumptions... assumptions from our senses, the way our brain works, etc. colour *everything*
<lolzie>
workmad3: are you familiar with John Lilly's works
<lolzie>
workmad3: I did say apparently here - it isn't necessarily the ultimate.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: yes, but you thought you were coming without assumptions... which indicates that your judgement of what constituted assumptions was impaired (to me)
<lolzie>
Belief systems. Ideas are modeled in the mind. Shaped, limited and given meaning to by assumptions + beliefs.
<lolzie>
We were able to tweak these assumptions and beliefs in fine detail, and we both maintained the same modified model in our minds, exploring it
<workmad3>
interesting as this is though, I need to go get food :)
<lolzie>
Then the limits, or assumptions, can be identified. And transcended. Thus each belief system can be transcended - to infinity.
<workmad3>
now you've gone to the ridiculous :P
<lolzie>
Which actually corroborates your point about it not being completely devoid of assumptions - which I agree with, now I say it
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<workmad3>
and the issue is that, if your judgement was impaired during the experience, then your memory of the experience is also likely to be impaired
<lolzie>
workmad3: this is K-speak dude. You know when someone has spent good time in K-space. But as us K-spacers each understand each other, our mental models must be compatible.
<lolzie>
You say ridiculous. Each belief system is unbelievable. ;)
<workmad3>
lolzie: that's going into your own belief system though
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<lolzie>
workmad3: the true ability was for me to go outside of my own belief systems.
<workmad3>
lolzie: 'K-space'... the way you just described it was as a faith - 'you can't know what I mean unless you have experienced it yourself'
<lolzie>
workmad3: for example, I was able to adopt viewpoints that I would ordinarily not believe in, and really explore them. You see?
<workmad3>
lolzie: I can do that without using drugs
<lolzie>
workmad3: so can I - however, having experienced both; it is done in a much more poignant fashion under the influence of K
<workmad3>
lolzie: except that you can't prove your judgement wasn't compromised
<workmad3>
lolzie: so anything you say regarding it has to be taken under the view of skepticism
<lolzie>
The anaesthesia gives the brain more computing capacity for ideas and mental models, not bothering so much with external sensory input
<lolzie>
workmad3: I'm going to make a guess here, not that this affects the validity of what you say scientifically speaking
<workmad3>
lolzie: and weighed against the viewpoint of 'this person has taken drugs that have compromised his reasoning'
<lolzie>
I would guess you have not much experience with psychedelics, correct?
<workmad3>
lolzie: none
<lolzie>
That's just out of personal interest, not scientific inquiry per se
<lolzie>
workmad3: it does show
<workmad3>
lolzie: however, I am personally intrigued by your viewpoint
<workmad3>
lolzie: and I find it kind of interesting
<lolzie>
workmad3: given what I say about belief systems
<lolzie>
You should know I really enjoy talking to you about this topic regardless of your own viewpoint
<workmad3>
lolzie: right now I'm actually taking the viewpoint of complete skepticism, even though I'm not fully believing in it
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<lolzie>
Sorry got d/c'd
<lolzie>
As I was saying - I'm not offended by your skepticism or differing viewpoints, or wish to aggressively push my own belief system upon you
<lolzie>
After all, my current belief system will quite certainly be transcended/modified as I progress further through time ;)
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<workmad3>
lolzie: '14:25 < workmad3> lolzie: right now I'm actually taking the viewpoint of complete skepticism, even though I'm not fully believing in it' Not sure you got that ;)
<lolzie>
workmad3: see, what me and my friend were effectively doing the other night, was adopting ...
<workmad3>
lolzie: what I love doing personally is playing devil's advocate :)
<lolzie>
I almost said "ridiculous" belief systems. But it's only ridiculous according to the assumptions of my current belief system operating in my mind
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<lolzie>
My mental model's "fitness function" of "sensibility"
<Xeago>
I'm thinking of loading my terminal configuration files into a ramdisk, any suggestions how?
<workmad3>
lolzie: and the reason I said 'ridiculous' was because you were saying it could be transcended 'infinitely' :)
<Xeago>
as my harddrive is slow
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<lolzie>
workmad3: so ridiculous? Is the mind infinite?
<workmad3>
lolzie: no
<lolzie>
workmad3: visualise 3D space in your mind. Go to the end of it.
<lolzie>
;)
<lolzie>
Or die trying.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that's a flawed example ;)
<workmad3>
lolzie: better would be - visualise a 3d space
<workmad3>
now visualise a 4d space
<workmad3>
now keep on going until you visualise an infinitely dimensional space
<lolzie>
But yeah, essentially me and my friend were temporarily assuming radically different belief systems when considering mental models. And then attempting to validate them as best representing reality or attaining the best outcome in it
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<lolzie>
And if it did better represent/outcome than our currently adopted models, we could integrate it. Otherwise, discard it.
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<lolzie>
Now you have to be careful doing this in such a state. If you integrate poor models into your mind, this could be dangerous. Essential to validate
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<lolzie>
The biocomputer that is the brain has myriad "programs", or mental models with belief systems. These can operate at a level "outside" of conscious mind, which is why one must be careful to select them.
<invisime>
Xeago: get your tech questions out of our drug philosophy discussion. :-P
<lolzie>
Note I say "outside", I feel it has less unverifiable assumptions than "under" or "sub"
<workmad3>
lolzie: you're venturing into pop-psychology now ;)
<lolzie>
workmad3: psychology is psychology regardless of the popularity my friend ;)
<workmad3>
lolzie: by which i mean the pseudo-pschology theories that are deemed 'popular' without necessarily having any actual basis
<workmad3>
and they are popular because the seem to be 'reasonable'
<workmad3>
*they
<Xeago>
invisime: booh
<lolzie>
workmad3: can you really deny that your brain has a whole stack of mental models and belief systems which it uses to operate?
<Xeago>
lolzie: yes
<Xeago>
I just did
<workmad3>
lolzie: I can't deny it... I also can't confirm it
<Xeago>
if it has anything that fulfills a function similair to a stack, it will be a heap
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that's the problem with pop-psychology... not being able to deny it is taken as confirmation
<lolzie>
workmad3: I have the assumption that in life, things fall down. I have been programmed with this assumption having been environmentally programmed by inputs from this planet
<hashpuppy>
looking at someone's code and they are rescuing and then calling send_data $!. what is $!?
<workmad3>
lolzie: when the true answer is 'I don't actually know enough to confirm or deny it'
<lolzie>
workmad3: a pen slips out of my hand, before seeing it move I know it's going DOWN based upon this established assumption, or "model of reality".
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<workmad3>
lolzie: yes, but that doesn't mean that things fall down
<lolzie>
And I move my hand down to try catch it. Is that not a pure example of the brain using assumptions + mental models to guide my operation in reality?
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<invisime>
hashpuppy: it's a built-in ruby global that holds the value of the last raised error.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that's a potential explanation
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<workmad3>
lolzie: it's not the only reasonable explanation or only possible explanation though
<workmad3>
lolzie: and thus it is not automatically the 'correct' explanation
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<hashpuppy>
invisime: thanks. is there a difference between using that and ex when you have "rescue => ex"?
<workmad3>
lolzie: but it's a working explanation by which you can base some conjecture on
<lolzie>
workmad3: hmm. What is it missing to make it sufficient evidence of causality?
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<invisime>
hashpuppy: yeah, there's a difference. especially if there's multiple threads.
<workmad3>
lolzie: the issue is the assumption underneath it all that you are portraying... 'this is *an* explanation that fits, therefore it must be *the* explanation'
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<lolzie>
workmad3: well. Conversely, let's just say someone comes from another planet where things go up. They have their mental model, and their operation/response follows that one accordingly. Is that not sufficient logic?
<hashpuppy>
invisime: in which case, ex is better
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<lolzie>
Hmm.
<hashpuppy>
right?
<workmad3>
lolzie: as I said, it seems reasonable
<workmad3>
lolzie: but reasonable doesn't make it correct
<workmad3>
lolzie: it's *that* which is the problem
<Xeago>
wait there's a term for this
<matti>
;]
<invisime>
hashpuppy: yeah, globals are to be avoided where possible.
<hashpuppy>
invisime: thanks a bunch
<invisime>
hashpuppy: any time. :-)
<lolzie>
workmad3: I think your point actually moves into the realm of philosophy, although science is certainly concerned with it - causality
<lolzie>
Proving causality absolutely
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<workmad3>
lolzie: my point is actually related to pop-psychology
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<Xeago>
the thing that is currently going on with the Standard Model, because of Higgs Boson
<Xeago>
particle*
<workmad3>
lolzie: and the acceptance of 'reasonable explanation' as equivalent to 'this is the correct explanation'
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<lolzie>
workmad3: but isn't this what the entire scientific method is based upon? We only "know" causality if it fits our scientific model
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<Xeago>
what is it called that if you prove 99% of something, the other 1% can be aught to be true because of the successful verification of the 99%
<workmad3>
lolzie: the scientific method isn't a method of proof though
<lolzie>
Repeatability and such. The tweaking of a mental model producing a suitable tweaked result in the exact manner in which it was tweaked suggests direct relation
<workmad3>
lolzie: it's a method of dis-proof
<workmad3>
lolzie: things are accepted as the current most-accurate explanation or theory, not as the correct theory
<workmad3>
and evidence mounts in favour of it until something disproves it
<lolzie>
workmad3: agreed, we MIGHT be "violently agreeing" here
<workmad3>
theories are never proven, they are only even accepted until disproved
<lolzie>
The things I've asserted are only true within current models
<workmad3>
exactly :)
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<workmad3>
and it's important to examine from within different models to see if that provides a more accurate predicition
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<lolzie>
workmad3: PRECISELY
<lolzie>
That's what me and my friend were doing
<lolzie>
And then integrating the better model into our normal modes of thinking
<lolzie>
Of course, you don't want to do this (or otherwise get trapped in) a model of nihilism or "must kill humans" ;)
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<workmad3>
so your viewpoint of 'ketamine makes me more objective, etc.' is one model, contrasted to the viewpoint of 'ketamine has compromised my mental chemistry to the point of I can no longer tell if I'm objective or not'
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<lolzie>
workmad3: exploring from within the latter model/viewpoint,
<lolzie>
one can then aggregate the information gathered the subsequent day, which very much backs it up (of course, we're not saying 100%) that there was objectivity in the night before
<workmad3>
lolzie: except that it was still being aggregated by potentially compromised viewpoints
<lolzie>
I was very keen to discuss these things the next day for verification
<invisime>
lolzie: it's also the case that you're making the assumption that ketamine wears off and doesn't permanently compromise your perceptions.
<lolzie>
Haha, like it :)
<lolzie>
workmad3: if the viewpoints are compromised, and therefore not objective,
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<lolzie>
workmad3: then surely our ideas/conclusions/explanations would not have perfectly matched the following day
<workmad3>
lolzie: you would need to discuss these things with an independent, uncompromised 3rd party who would be able to assess that you were both talking about the same thing
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<lolzie>
And had been instead our own, differing subjective interpretations
<workmad3>
lolzie: except that the ketamine could have compromised your objectivity to the point that you can no longer tell if your ideas actually match or not
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<workmad3>
lolzie: you could be agreeing and actually be talking about completely different things, but because you are compromised you will never know
<lolzie>
workmad3: this is when the ketamine wore off next day. Of course, this involves the assumption that ketamine wears off.
<workmad3>
lolzie: exactly
<lolzie>
But that's an assumption I think sensible to make
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<workmad3>
lolzie: I don't think it's a sensible one to make
<workmad3>
lolzie: it has altered your brain chemistry
<lolzie>
Agreed on that, but we're talking objectivity here;
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<workmad3>
lolzie: you can't know it has actually reverted to its original state
<invisime>
actually, workmad3. the more interesting question to me, is the solipsist one: how do you verify that you're in contact with another mind at all in the first place. presumably the same methods can be used to verify that you're both communicating.
<lolzie>
Would it not become quite readily apparent over time that my objectivity has been screwed, if ketamine never wore off?
<workmad3>
lolzie: not to you
<workmad3>
lolzie: your objectivity has been compromised
<lolzie>
But to others?
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<invisime>
solipsism!
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<lolzie>
Of course, I'd rely on my own objectivity to realise that others are telling me. But there has been no discoveries of such alterations to the brain with particular regard to objectivity
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<lolzie>
workmad3: as you explore all of these different assumptions, which can lead to rather "wacky" models - can you see how one can say "my own beliefs are unbelievable"? :)
<Xeago>
lolzie: lol, becaus ethey've been altered to not know of such alterations
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<lolzie>
invisime: are you referring to the.. I forget the name, zombie philosophy thing. That other people aren't necessarily conscious minds and just appear to have the outputs that one would have?
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<workmad3>
lolzie: it's down to can you prove that other minds exist
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<moshef>
if there an easy way to do hash.merge only if there is no value present? or do I have to check that value doesn't exists in the hash?
<lolzie>
Oh yeah, I didn't give the John Lilly quote. "In the province of the mind what one believes to be true, either is true or becomes true within certain limits. These limits are to be found experimentally and experientially. When so found these limits turn out to be further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind there are no limits. However, in the province of the body there are definite limits not to be transcended."
<workmad3>
lolzie: here's a question though... is your mind capable of recognising the limits that it cannot transcend?
<invisime>
lolzie: yeah, it's called solipsism. and it's the idea that you're the only conscious mind and everything else is just a figment of your imagination.
<workmad3>
lolzie: or would the mere fact of recognising them give us an ability to transcend them, thereby making that not the limit?
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<invisime>
moshef: the whole point of Hash#merge is that it'll take care of all the checking for you. I don't understand what you're asking.
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<lolzie>
invisime: your rationale would completely depend upon the assumptions you make in your model of reality. Of which you could have an infinite variety of assumptions, there are infinite rationales
<lolzie>
Which says to be it is intractable as a problem.
<lolzie>
me*
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<workmad3>
lolzie: yes, solipism is a philosophical stance, not a provable statement
<moshef>
invisime: what do you mean?
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<lolzie>
workmad3: as per John Lilly, and me, as a K-cadet so far (hehe), the mind has not demonstrated any limits
<Hanmac>
moshef hash.merge(other) {|k,o,n| o }
<moshef>
Hash#merge will merge anyone
<workmad3>
lolzie: yes, but can you, trapped within your mind, actually observe the limits?
<moshef>
Hanmac: checking
<deryl-android>
Does anyone know of a code analysis gem that scans your code and emits skeletal rspec or test::unit tests to files?
<lolzie>
workmad3: well, if the limits are my assumptions in my current mental model, and I know them assumptions, surely yes
<workmad3>
lolzie: or are you just operating under the idea that because you cannot observe the limits, that they therefore don't exist?
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<lolzie>
Limits/assumptions give shape, give form to mental models.
<lolzie>
This is why I believe them infinitely transcendable.
<invisime>
deryl-android: not of the top of my head, but it wouldn't be hard to write one.
<moshef>
Hanmac: thanks dude you're awesome
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<lolzie>
Otherwise a mental model would not have form if it did not have limits. Infinite regress. Without form, surely it cannot exist?
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<workmad3>
lolzie: so that would mean that your mind is capable of holding an infinite amount of information?
<atmosx>
aloha
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<Hanmac>
moshef or reverse the order: other.merge(hash)
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<moshef>
Hanmac: how about the other way around? merge only if present?
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<workmad3>
lolzie: and my point is that there are limits to mental reasoning itself... but we are not able to recognise them because the limits to the reasoning are not approachable within the confines of the reasoning available to us
<lolzie>
workmad3: definite limits of the body, as John Lilly said. The skull is not big enough to support infinite neural pathways and that much physical representation of knowledge in our current mind vessel - the default biological human body.
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<lolzie>
workmad3: now what if our brain size was not constrained. It would still have mind, but no definite physical size limits. Space is infinite in size. So surely it could fit infinite information.
<lolzie>
Eh? :)
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<invisime>
lolzie: you're still constrained by your light-cone.
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that doesn't mean that all the information is accessible to the reasoning that the brain or mind can use
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<invisime>
workmad3: exactly what I just said. ;-)
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<workmad3>
invisime: except more abstract ;)
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<lolzie>
The mind is, after all, an abstract concept
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<lolzie>
(Assumption ;-)
<workmad3>
invisime: I'm thinking more along the lines of the incompleteness theorem than physical limits btw :)
<invisime>
workmad3: that, too.
<lolzie>
I'm afraid I didn't quite understand either of your points, on either level of abstraction
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<invisime>
lolzie: say you could build a really really really big computer.
<invisime>
so big that it could store everything.
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<shevy>
=== THE UNIVERSAL COMPUTER
<invisime>
some of the storage would be waaaaaaay over there.
<workmad3>
lolzie: have you ever come across Godel's Incompleteness Theorem?
<shevy>
CONTAINING ALL INFORMATION THAT HAS EVER BEEN IN THE UNIVERSE.
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<invisime>
it would take a long time for you to retrieve that information because you're still bound by the speed of light for communication.
<shevy>
BUT NOT HAVING THE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO USE LOWER CAPS.
<lolzie>
workmad3: yes although I confess I've either forgotten the details or didn't understand it the first time i read it (ages ago)
<shevy>
wait
<invisime>
lol, shevy.
<shevy>
bound by the speed of light
<shevy>
my thoughts travel faster than light!
<invisime>
shevy: no they don't.
<shevy>
:(
<invisime>
but if they do, can you teach me? :-P
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<lolzie>
invisime: assumption! What if our brains are essentially interdimensional transceivers
<workmad3>
lolzie: ok, so basically, the incompleteness theorem proves that there are true statements within number theory that are impossible to prove within number theory
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<lolzie>
Light speed limits wouldn't apply in such a reality
<workmad3>
lolzie: godel also proved that any formal system is isomorphic to number theory
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<shevy>
what does this mean
<shevy>
isomorphic
<workmad3>
shevy: equivalent to
<invisime>
shevy: you can translate back and forth between them without loss of information.
<lolzie>
Okay
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<shevy>
cool
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<lolzie>
invisime: great explanation, I've been looking for that for a long time
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<shevy>
I never read godel... I am scared shitless by math... but I like information systems
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<invisime>
read godel, escher, bach. and take notes.
<workmad3>
shevy: godel numbering is a really important concept :)
<Hanmac>
moshef hm not with the merge method .. but you could look at this: Hash[{a: 1,b: 2}.map{|k,v|[k,{b: 3,c: 4}.fetch(k,v)]}] #=> {:a=>1, :b=>3}
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<lolzie>
workmad3: here's where I might get blown away, how does he know them to be true without provability?
<workmad3>
and yeah GEB is a great book for this sort of stuff :)
<lolzie>
Oh, because of the isomorphism?
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<shevy>
invisime but isn't that like with thousand formulas?
<workmad3>
lolzie: the statement is equivalent to 'This statement is not provable in number theory'
<invisime>
shevy: yeah, but he takes it slow.
<Xeago>
can we put this crap in #yourownroom?
<Xeago>
it's a neverending story
<moshef>
Hanmac: rather just check if value is present then :D
<Xeago>
with recursion
<moshef>
Hanmac: but thanks anyway buddy
<lolzie>
A isomorphic to B. Theory applied to A proves true. Theory applied to B is not testable. One infers from the isomorphism of A and B, and the trueness of the theory in A, that the theory is true in B.
<lolzie>
workmad3: correct? ^
<invisime>
Xeago: ruby questions are still getting addressed. I don't see it as a problem.
<workmad3>
lolzie: no
<Xeago>
I can't find ruby questinos :D
<workmad3>
lolzie: because if it were probable in A, it would be provable in B
<workmad3>
*provable
<Xeago>
but fine
<Hanmac>
moshef why? the fetch method is cool in this context
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<workmad3>
lolzie: that would be another aspect of the isomorphism ;)
<lolzie>
Gotcha
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<lolzie>
workmad3: I still need to get to grips with your and invisime's assertion from before that related to this by the way
<shevy>
Hanmac's code is scary
<lolzie>
I recall the other night me and my friend would take massively long tangents when explaining a sub-part of a theory before returning to it. Which is actually pretty cool. hehe
<shevy>
it's a mixture of C++ and ruby
<workmad3>
lolzie: I didn't actually make an assertion, I posited a viewpoint ;)
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<rking>
shevy: URL?
<Xeago>
anyone want to provide help to put my shell config files in a ramdisk?
<Xeago>
as my hd is slow?
<invisime>
Xeago: I don't know about that. you might try #linux or something?
<shevy>
rking no just in general on #ruby... Hash[{a: 1,b: 2}.map{|k,v|[k,{b: 3,c: 4}.fetch(k,v)]}] #=> {:a=>1, :b=>3} scares me, look how close the { is to the p character
<lolzie>
workmad3: sorry, boss came over, had to minimise chat. Hehe. Believe it or not I'm being paid to write PHP, not be a philosopher.
<lolzie>
workmad3: but I'm sure as a philosopher I can rationalise my actions somehow
<shevy>
now I understand why you need drugs lolzie
<workmad3>
lolzie: that's the problem with the world today
<workmad3>
lolzie: philosophers rarely get paid :)
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<lolzie>
Problems with the world
<shevy>
but PHP is like a drug. when I realized it changes my brain I quitted
<lolzie>
Me and my friend performed a hugely extensive critique of society
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<rking>
Hanmac: .cg??
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<Xeago>
atmosx: now comes the issue, it needs to be done automatically
<lolzie>
I also psychoanalysed him extensively too. Ahhh. Even if things are possible without certain drugs, they do inspire these things more often generally.
<Hanmac>
not the cg files ... i mean the cpp files D
<atmosx>
Xeago: there's fstab for that
<atmosx>
Xeago: /etc/fstab
<lolzie>
workmad3: oh I didn't get your viewpoint in the end then, sadface :(
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<lolzie>
Disruptions prevented the flow
<rking>
Hanmac: Yeah. I don't see anything untoward so far. I don't know what .cg is though
<Xeago>
I don't have fstab atmosx
<atmosx>
Xeago: ramfs on /mnt/ramzsh type ramfs (rw,size=20m) .. or whatever you might want 80m
<workmad3>
lolzie: read Godel Escher and Bach, that portrays my viewpoint better than I ever could :) (also it's a 900-odd page book... very hard to get it across using an hour-long IRC discussion :) )
<atmosx>
Xeago: what OS r u on?
<Hanmac>
rking the .cg files are GPUprogramms for the the sample
<atmosx>
Xeago: launchd script is ready there, just adjust the paths
<Hanmac>
the bindings does :P
<rking>
Hanmac: Wait, are they GLSL?
<lolzie>
workmad3: this looks very interesting. So much to read though. I have to focus on my "out-sanity" studies such as Rails too, in addition to my "in-sanity" studies of philosophy and mind
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<workmad3>
lolzie: yeah, it's a big read
<Hanmac>
they are in Gpuprogramms (cg,glsl,hlsl) ... the binding picks the right one depending on your system
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<workmad3>
lolzie: it actually took me 3 attempts spanning about 18 months before I finished it, and I know I didn't pick it all up and want to re-read it at some point
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<lolzie>
workmad3: but I think this could hugely inspire thinking during future K experimentation.
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<havenn>
lolzie: Psh, I tried coding on ketamine and all that happened is I thought I became a keyboard.
<rking>
Hanmac: On Linux what would handle them?
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<lolzie>
People with intelligence definitely have a better time on drugs than the dumbasses.
<Xeago>
atmosx: I kinda want the following, ~/.oh-my-zsh on disk, however for faster loading in memory aswell, e.g. I want modifications to ram to go to disk aswell (and viceversa)
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<lolzie>
havenn: perhaps you should have mixed in the MDMA too to prevent too much internal kinesthetic sensory effects from taking over.
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<Hanmac>
rking cg, or glsl
<lolzie>
havenn: and used text-to-speech coding, no keyboard. People love to talk on MDMA.
<lolzie>
haha
<invisime>
lolzie: if you're looking for more digestible piece of discourse on rationality, I highly recommend anything by http://yudkowsky.net/
<rking>
Hanmac: Aha, e.g. media-gfx/nvidia-cg-toolkit
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<lolzie>
There is a word that describes the quality of something being measured by "much" instead of "many". Any resident sesquipedalians familiar with it?
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<Hanmac>
rking it depends on what is ogre compiled against
<lolzie>
invisime: I've saved that to read at home :)
<lolzie>
invisime: I've come across this before, but my mind is much more prepared for this now
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<atmosx>
Xeago: you're on an SSD hd?
<Xeago>
nope
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<Xeago>
that's my problem :)
<Xeago>
I basically want ~/.oh-my-zsh to be cached somewhere
<rking>
Hanmac: Nothing wrong with macro_attr()
<Xeago>
I guess I can handle failover in my ~/.zshrc
<rking>
Hanmac: Though honestly, if I had to code C/C++, I'd be writing .hpp.erb files.
<Xeago>
lol
<rking>
The preprocessor isn't complete enough for me.
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<rking>
Xeago: Wait, what do you need failover for?
<Xeago>
failover asin I change ~/.oh-my-zsh
<lolzie>
havenn: a quick question - from the ketamine do you think on ketamine you've ever achieved trains of thought enabling better understandings than you might have normally attained in default mind state (i.e. no ketamine)
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<lolzie>
ignore the "on ketamine" part, bad edit!
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<Hanmac>
rking ... so do you like my macro_attr?
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<rking>
Hanmac: Definitely.
<rking>
Hanmac: Do you see what I mean re .cpp.erb though?
<Hanmac>
:D
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<Xeago>
failover asin I change ~/.oh-my-zsh, and I want those changes to be updated :)
<Hanmac>
maybe ... but erb files are currently not needed
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<rking>
Hanmac: I guess you're right. I was going to point out a spot, but it could actually be done in the preprocessor.
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<TheX1le>
new to ruby, and trying to fix the following extconf file. http://bpaste.net/show/46768/ i need to get it to link against pcap. any suggestions? iv been reading various docs and so far seem to be missing what im looking for
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<deryl>
invisime: thanks for the response (had to scroll back. my android irc client puked and i missed the message)
<rking>
TheX1le: -lpcap ?
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<rking>
TheX1le: Nono, that's not very extconfy of me.
<invisime>
deryl: no problem.
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<invisime>
deryl: sorry it wasn't more helpful.
<rking>
TheX1le: Looks like you could copy exactly the style of that orcon2 stuff.
<deryl>
invisime: not a problem. it was a random thought i had for use in a project i'm working on
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<shevy>
Hanmac curious bug... they must re-assemble the map or something
<shevy>
but I would sure enough not use apple to fly to mars
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<Hanmac>
imo China and Japan should fuse to one cool country ... :D
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<m3pow>
but keep Japan's quality
<xaq>
hey guys, I'm trying to run a sinatra app on ec2, nginx, and passenger, and every request hangs indefinitely. Accessing static files in the public directory works just fine though if I directly request them. Anyone got this working?
<twooster>
I'm getting occasional strange conversion exceptions out of BigDecimal: http://pastebin.com/YLwRGcgE -- has anyone ever seen this before?
<Hanmac>
m3pow Japan's Quality with China's Quantity :D
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<m3pow>
lol Q&Q
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<Vainoharhainen>
How should i specify port with Faraday?
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<TheX1le>
rking: so i should add it to the same line as the orcon2 stuff? or add a new one?
<TheX1le>
i tried just tacking it into that list
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<TheX1le>
and it didnt seem to work
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<lectrick>
anyone know how to exit all future binding.pry calls with Pry? (for a test run, in this instance)
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<rking>
TheX1le: New one
<twooster>
Even more simplified version of the bug: http://pastebin.com/jps3T0NW -- BigDecimal just randomly throws on #power
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<rking>
TheX1le: You'll want to figure out an example of a function that you can test from have_library()
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<wunz>
hehe, perl code confuses crap outta me
<wunz>
but i love its regexp
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<wunz>
perl is so famous for its regexp, wonder how come other langs didn't incorporate their rexexp style
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<avalarion>
Hey ho, I wrote a redmine Plugin after updating redmine to the newest version I get "uninitialized constant RepositoryObserver". As this are my first ruby lines I need help with fixing it... does somebody has got time?
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<wunz>
not even sure, shevy or workmad3 would be able to better assit
<wunz>
im nooby here
<avalarion>
;) Help is help, thanks mate
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<wunz>
but you can try requiring it and see what happens
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<shevy>
ah I am absolutely clueless about ActiveRecord
<shevy>
if there is someone in the know, it is workmad3
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<shevy>
if there would be a non-rails way to get into active record, I could get into it, but it seems to be coupled so much to rails that I am not so enthusiastic about wanting to learn and use it much :(
<deryl>
though I do plan on having a rails frontend for remote workers at some future date
<deryl>
savage-: hehe already there
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<savage->
hehehe
<savage->
sweeet :)
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<deryl>
savage-: you the one with the beard aint ya ;)
<savage->
hahaha
<savage->
nope :)
<savage->
I'm Ryan LeCompte
<savage->
not on air right now
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<deryl>
ah
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<danryan>
Hey folks! Where can I find best practices for extending core classes in Ruby?
<danryan>
Looking to be as unobtrusive as possible
<deryl>
i believe its class.extend see ri extend
<deryl>
or ri Object.extend
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<danryan>
deryl: thank you for the suggestions! I understand obj.extend as a way of injecting methods into an object. Allow me to elaborate what it is I wish to achieve:
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<workmad3>
danryan: as deryl is suggesting, one of the more unobtrusive ways is to put your extensions in a module and then do Whatever.extend YourModule
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<danryan>
I have custom methods to modify strings. The potential exists for these methods to be overridden by someone who loads my library in their own way. Class.extend MyModule will inject my methods, yes, but it won't stop someone from overriding them, or stop me from overriding theirs.
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<danryan>
I just want to be a good citizen :)
<danryan>
Would you folks recommend extending instances of classes?
<Spooner>
danryan : It is generally bad form to modify core classes in a gem, but do what you like if your own applications. Whether you re-open the class or include/extend it with your own classes doesn't matter so much. As Deryl says, you probably should extend individual objects rather than the entire class, if you can.
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<Spooner>
Extending an object like that (str.extend MyModule) is like class String; include MyModule; end, but just for the single object.
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<Spooner>
Oh, but when I say "do what you like in your own applications", I really meant add what you like, but if you alter any core behaviour by replacing or extending methods, don't expect other people's gems not to break ;)
<shevy>
yeah that keeps coming back
<hippiehacker>
is rubygems.org having trouble?
<shevy>
the ability to modify classes and modules and the ability to undo those modifications
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<danryan>
Spooner: cool, thank you :)
<shevy>
hippiehacker, seems to lag for me
<shevy>
hippiehacker, but it just finished loading
<danryan>
Spooner: I thought about subclassing core classes, like `class MyString < String;end` but that feels like too much :D
<Spooner>
shevy Isn't there a magic way to do it added in 2.0? So that you can modify a class within a scope?
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<shevy>
Spooner no real idea. hopefully... and I think someone said that ... I think it was RubyPanther or something, he is the 2.0 dude after all
<shevy>
hmm and I think matz also made a presentation about this years ago... traits or?
<danryan>
Spooner: shevy: was that the `refine/ using` suggestion?
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<Spooner>
danryan : That could work, depending on your use-case, but it is likely then that any operations on MyString would generate a String, not another MyString. Probably more effort than it is worth. A wrapper class might be more appropriate, depending on your needs.
<shevy>
never heard of refine or using before... hmm... or was it use TraitName... let me try to find that video
<shevy>
you may have to get used to his english style a bit, but he got better hehe
<danryan>
hehe
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<hashpuppy>
in my class MyServer < EventMachine::Connection, I have def log_request(msg); request_time = @request_time or Time.now; end. why am I getting unitialized constant MyServer::Time?
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<digitcake>
hello , trying to get rvm to install rails but I'm getting an error and not sure what do about it https://gist.github.com/3762707
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<canton7>
hashpuppy, require 'time' ?
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<RubyPanther>
shevy: actually I haven't done anything at all with new features, I'm mostly using it for the improved memory performance when forking
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<canton7>
oops, so it is
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<shevy>
but you praised it with a purry voice :(
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<shevy>
well, I have become conservative... I was stuck on 1.8.7 for years, am on 1.9.3 since perhaps a year ... I can be patient
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<RubyPanther>
Ruby as a language is already perfect and I don't want enhancements, and now with the bitmapped marking for GC I can use my crufty old tried and true *nix forking strategies and have shared memory work like it is supposed to... at a lower level than Ruby.
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<RubyPanther>
I mean in Perl we had that in the 90s.
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<evaryont>
Does ruby have a tracing function, analogous to bash -x ?
<RubyPanther>
It is like Back to the Future with Ruby 2, like omg everything works now! And it's faster too!
<hashpuppy>
is there a way for me to specify core?
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<hashpuppy>
Core::Time
<hashpuppy>
?
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<Hanmac>
do: ::Time.now
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<shevy>
evaryont what does bash -x do?
<evaryont>
shevy: outputs every line, every condition, every variable set.
<shevy>
Hanmac what shell do you use btw?
<shevy>
evaryont, oh, that is cool
<shevy>
hmmm... not sure if ruby offers the same
<evaryont>
basically, as lines are evaluated, it outputs the current state.
<shevy>
cool
<evaryont>
1.9 does, with -rtrace however I'm using 1.8 :-/
<shevy>
hah, I did not know about -rtrace either :)
<shevy>
that is so cool
<shevy>
"ruby -rtracer colourizer.rb" all with the line numbers
<Hanmac>
shevy still normal bash
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<Spooner>
The trace gem just tells you about method calls, by the look of it.
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<Spooner>
And since it uses set_trace_func, it should also work in 1.8.6+
<Spooner>
In fact, using that method directly gives you potentially a lot more info than the trace gem does.
<evaryont>
Spooner: would need a built-in way outside of evaulating code. Don't have control over the code. (The program ssh's into and executes a ruby script)
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<evaryont>
passing in something via RUBYOPT (like -rtrace) is doable
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<Spooner>
evaryont : all that -rtrace is does "require 'trace'" before it runs the code, so you could just load any Ruby code with that (you may need to set -I too, so it knows where to look for the file).
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<Spooner>
So setting RUBYOPT="-I/path/to/my/scripts -rmy_magic_tracer" would run /path/to/my/scripts/my_magic_tracer.rb before Ruby ran the main code.
<Spooner>
That is, if you don't want to make it into a full gem, of course!
<evaryont>
hrm, I did -rtracer and got no such file to load
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<Spooner>
It is in my 1.8.7 and it seems to work.
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<evaryont>
herp
<evaryont>
I did -rtrace, no trailing 'r'.
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<Spooner>
However, you don't jsut require it - you need to wrap the code in a Trace.on {}
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<Spooner>
Yes, that is what I saw you paste in, which does exist as a gem. Tracer is the standard lib.
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<Spooner>
You could -e"Tracer.on" I suppose.
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<Spooner>
I'm not convinced that would be a good idea though, since you'd trace through EVERYTHING, such as all the code being run in gems.
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<Spooner>
I'm guessing the code works on your machine, but fails in production, which is why you barely have access to it?
<evaryont>
yar.
<evaryont>
and -e in RUBYOPT throws an error. Silly ruby, being safe & all.
<Spooner>
I'd suggest you drop some "Trace.on if ENV['TRACING_MODE']" and Trace.off's in your code and re-upload it.
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<Spooner>
Then you can just trace the bits you are interested in.
<Spooner>
Or look to see if something like Pry solves your problem in another way (it seems to do everything nowadays).
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<JonValt>
Hey all. I have a line: ** if File.directory?("c:/users") do ** in my code, and I'm getting an error (in metasploit) ** NoMethodError undefined method `directory?' ** Any help for this hopeless n00b?
<Spooner>
JonValt : Er, looks fine to me. What Ruby version are you using?
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<Spooner>
Mmm, it was already in 1.8.6, so that does seem like an odd error.
<evaryont>
Spooner: thanks for your help. Looks like I'll have to do the re-upload
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<JonValt>
Spooner: sorry, google-fu not working. How would I tell?
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<Spooner>
JonValt : ruby -v
<JonValt>
What's weird for me is that this works in irb
<Spooner>
xp/vista_paths should perhaps be a constant rather than a method (XP_PATHS = "c:/documents and settings") ? But yes, working out the path in a method makes more sense.
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<JonValt>
Okay, and the if, end, and else look better as well? :-)
<Spooner>
?: Is the trinary operator that is a shorthand for if/else/end
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<Spooner>
if x then y else z ==> x ? y : z
<JonValt>
wow, nice!
<JonValt>
Thanks
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<Spooner>
Oops: if x then y else z end ==> x ? y : z
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<JonValt>
Thanks again. Gonna clean it up a little and try it out.
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<Spooner>
JonValt : Incidentally, you can use ENV['USERPROFILE'] to get to "c:/users/me", which is a bit more robust.
<Spooner>
Probably a bit more robust.
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<Spooner>
or ENV['HOME']
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<JonValt>
That's true. But this is for forensics, and it'll be running as a random user with admin privileges or SYSTEM. So it has to go to the "users" directory and look in each folder that exists there.
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<JonValt>
This needs to parse all users folders regardless of name, etc. if that makes sense.
<Spooner>
Yes, but you could use File.dirname ENV['HOME'] to get "c:/users" or "d:/documents and settings" or whereever it is.
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<JonValt>
Spooner Yeah, I'm not sure about that. irb on my win7 box returns "u:\" for that env
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<Spooner>
JonValt : print them all out with: ENV.each {|k, v| puts "#{k}: #{v}" }
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<Spooner>
What I suggested works on my win7 machine, but now I think about it, my env could have a lot of non-standard stuff in it.
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<JonValt>
http://pastie.org/4773887 - Still getting the same error. This should be easier to read. (it defaulted to black bg)
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<Spooner>
Oooh, Msf has its own File! You should use ::File.directory to ensure you use the regular one.
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<Spooner>
JonValt : VISTA_PATHS won't map onto the method vista_paths. You need: http://pastie.org/4773904
<JonValt>
So change File.directory to ::File.directory ?
<Spooner>
Yes.
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<Spooner>
If I'd been given the full error message, I could have said earlier ;)
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<JonValt>
Oh, sorry about that. :-/
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<JonValt>
I don't want to be the unhelpful guy asking questions. :-)
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<atmosx>
using ruby on Windows is evil
<atmosx>
actually, using windows is evil
<wmoxam_>
Using windows is pretty normal
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<JonValt>
Spooner: Okay, it did it with no errors. But I didn't get any output either (metasploit's print_status is like puts)
<JonValt>
BUT the error went away.
<Spooner>
You don't have any print_status in that last test.
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<JonValt>
ah, it was the caps from the code
<JonValt>
fixed it.
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<JonValt>
I did not have a print_status, but what I also didn't have was a direction to go to xp_paths or vista_paths :-)
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: yes, that's why 9 out of 10 users have problems with paths
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<JonValt>
IT WORKS. :-)
<atmosx>
cool
<atmosx>
finally :D
<JonValt>
haha!
<JonValt>
yeah no kidding. But thanks. You guys made me a better programmer. I have a ways to go, but every little bit helps. Thanks again.
<wmoxam_>
atmosx: like, that's there are differences between paths on different OS versions?
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<wmoxam_>
Good thing that *nix has never had that problem
<wmoxam_>
they're all exactly the same!
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<atmosx>
It also had gnu tools, shells like zsh, it has open source versions of everything, freely available for everyone.
<JonValt>
Yeah, it sucks for me too, because Vista/7 also have a Documents and Settings folder, but it's generally empty. Don't get me started on Application Data versus "APPDATA"
<JonValt>
:)
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: also it has decent file systems and some sort of system design that makes sense.
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<joofsh>
jonvalt…..nice user name
<wmoxam_>
atmosx: I run two versions of *nix that don't have GNU tools
<Vinz_>
Hi :)
<JonValt>
joofsh thanks.
<wmoxam_>
and have run GNU tools on Windows
* wmoxam_
shrugs
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<wmoxam_>
lets all beat the dead horse together
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<atmosx>
wmoxam_: the fact that you *do* not want gnu tools on your unix version have nothing to do with the *fact* that windows suck big time.
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<wmoxam_>
atmosx: Why would I want to replace my system tools with GNU ones?
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: I never argued against your system tools.
<wmoxam_>
atmosx: and what does any of this have to do with your bitching about some stupid OS?
<atmosx>
I said that windows suck, you on windows? if yes, compared to linux/osx/bsd sucks.
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<atmosx>
end of story.
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<wmoxam_>
atmosx: for your use case it does
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: the discussion started about paths.
<wmoxam_>
atmosx: stop trying to bully others because they might not share your use case
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<metrix>
what does f do some; methods; end actually do? is this a shortcut that passes f as the first parameter to each of my methods??
<wmoxam_>
it's a cancer in the Ruby community
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: if he were on linux he would probably never had this issue. He is not the first one comming here complaining about issues on windows. Myself had quite a few when installed ruby on WindowsXP
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: no, I'll keep on going
<atmosx>
lol
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: you *HAVE* to buy the new iPhone5 to support Apple!
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<wmoxam_>
"lol, why do you use such a shit OS bro?" <-- Windows user's perception of the average Rubyist
<atmosx>
wmoxam_: seriously though, windows is a lame dev envinroment, apart from that... I agree with you, OS doesn't matter ultimately if you are able to configure your settings properly.
<metrix>
Are we having a Windows vs Linux debate? Because I still remember the time I went to #Python channel asking how to get Python to compile on SCO somewhere around 2005...
<atmosx>
I don't open links from unknown people on IRC
<wunz>
so until apple makes better map apps, i wont' switch
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<atmosx>
metrix: yeap, but we'll switch to vim vs emacs shortly
<metrix>
LOL
<wmoxam_>
lolz
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<wmoxam_>
#ruby is a ghetto
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<atmosx>
hmmm he has never been to #openbsd for sure...
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<metrix>
wmoxam_: if they aren't helpful with answers on your Windows problems: wait a day, change your nick name and say that Ruby is so terrible because it won't do X on Windows
<joofsh>
i really prefer linux, I don't like the restrictive culture of apple
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<joofsh>
but all the rails developers i know or work with use mac, and i'm by no means a "sheep", but for pair programming and such, it was easier to have a similar setup
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<Spooner>
I use windows (and a linux VM on Windows) and learned to have a thick hide around Ruby people ;D
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<reactormonk>
Spooner: yeah, if you build rock on sand, it won't get stable ;-)
<joofsh>
haha, good for you then, you are braver than I
<libryder_>
is there a ruby idiom for indenting after private/protected keywords?
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<reactormonk>
libryder_: I haven't seen private/protected used, it's here to make conservative people feel confortable.
<Spooner>
The usual thing is to have them at the class/end indentation, not at the code level. I keep them at the def level though.
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<libryder_>
reactormonk: i use it as an indicator to anyone working with my code, not to prevent anything
<Spooner>
Dunno, I am a bit believer in them, reactormonk
<libryder_>
public interface at the top, private at the bottom
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<Spooner>
MyObject.public_methods is useful to find out the API. Useless if people don't bother with protected on internal stuff.
<Spooner>
Also prevents all your internal logic being published by docs. I won't go on ;)
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<reactormonk>
Spooner: they should show up, just as private - I hate people using :nodoc: when I try to reconstruct how the code works
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<Spooner>
Depends on what you put in your .yardoc. Makes considerably more sense to use public/protected rather than :nodoc: though, since then the user can decide how much is documented.
<reactormonk>
see rails... last time I checked, that is
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<Spooner>
Yes, but there is a difference between API docs, which should only really show public stuff and documentation you might generate as a reference.
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<Spooner>
*more general reference, for example, to help you patch it.
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<Spooner>
I actually put protected/public directly before a lot of my methods individually. The thing is that it is then a reference, without me having to scroll up until I see "protected" or the start of the class, to remind myself what type of method it is ;)
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<Spooner>
And no, I am not suggesting other people should do it that way.
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<swarley>
trying to remember something. Lets say i have x = y/z and i want to find z. How would i do that?
<swarley>
I thought -x = z/y was an option but i'm not sure
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<swarley>
and then multiply both sides by y
<joofsh>
z= y/x
<joofsh>
multiply both sides by z, then both sides by x
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<joofsh>
1/x = z/y , not negative x
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<lectrick>
multiply both sides by z. Divide both sides by x. Congratulations.
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<lectrick>
z * (x = y/z) == zx = y; (zx = y)/x == z = y/x
<swarley>
ohh thank you
<bananagram>
I like algebra
<lectrick>
it's not that hard once you get the swing of it
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<swarley>
okay, so let me try this again
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<diegoviola>
i'm working with some code that saves data to a mongodb database, and i want to show notifications with websockets or ajax when data is saved on a collection... but i don't think mongodb supports triggers or anything like that, what do you guys recommend?
<diegoviola>
the ajax client-side is the easy part, but how do i tell that changes have been made in mongo?
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<havenn>
Hmmm, Ruby 2.0 Refinement for pig latin - I need a more productive way to procrastinate: https://gist.github.com/3763549
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<havenn>
diegoviola: If you haven't tried #mongodb, those guys would know.
<diegoviola>
ty
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<swarley>
and if velocity is 0, time results as infinite for me
<canton7>
why '+0.0' ?
<swarley>
to ensure that it has precision
<canton7>
use #to_f to #fdiv
<canton7>
s/to/or
<swarley>
k
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<swarley>
should i just add an exception for when velocity is zero?
<canton7>
well, depends what you want to do
<canton7>
if velocity is zero then time *is* infinite
<swarley>
what about initial velocity of zero?
<workmad3>
why would initial velocity be 0?
<swarley>
because there is no time or distance to put it against
<swarley>
you can have v0 = 0
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<swarley>
oh, well duh i forgot
<swarley>
i'm using average velocity
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<swarley>
instantaneous velocity has a limit
<workmad3>
swarley: also, have[:distance].to_f
<workmad3>
rather than +0.0
<swarley>
which i have NO idea how to do, to be honest
<swarley>
workmad3, already using fdiv like canton7 suggested
<workmad3>
that works too :)
<workmad3>
I forget about fdiv
<swarley>
well i suppose i could use a longer formula
<workmad3>
and yeah, if you want to handle initial velocity, you're going to need acceleration and you're going to really want to be doing calculus
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<workmad3>
and if you're doing calculus, I'd suggest you do an RK4 numerical integrator ;)
<swarley>
i hate when i dont have time in physics equations, it makes it so annoying to do anything else
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* Hanmac
does not much care about the laws of physics :P
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: how about the 'suggestions' of physics?
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<Hanmac>
there are more "guidelines" than "laws"
<workmad3>
well, I guess it depends on what you class as the 'laws'
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<workmad3>
do you class the things we have as the laws, or the things that we're attempting to approximate with our equations as the 'laws'?
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<Hanmac>
"every" law can be "broken" :P
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<workmad3>
well, if you count our current knowledge as the laws, then yes they can be 'broken' because they are only ever approximations
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<workmad3>
if you count the actual universe as the laws, then no, I don't think you can 'break' them...
<workmad3>
but that's getting into semantics and philosophy, and I had my fill of philosophy earlier :)
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<Hanmac>
workmad3: quote: "You're right! This is a violation of the laws of physics. I'll notify the physics police at once! " :D
<workmad3>
:D
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<avalarion>
Is someone able to help me to update my redmine plugin to version 2? Its for enabling bitbucket support
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<crystalz999>
Just focusing on lines 1-12, does that mean every new object that is initialized will have the ability to use the "sing_me_a_song" method? http://pastebin.com/5LahPLEX
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<elico>
kenichi: yes I was thinking of it... abd it seems to work ok but I was thinking about maybe there is another way that I can send message to the process.
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<elico>
I can think of socket. by the way kenichi is a nice name
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<shevy>
he is a true samurai
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* kenichi
blushes
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<elico>
>> puts "works?"
<elico>
they killed keny!
<elico>
!reset
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<fir_ed>
Trying to debug
<fir_ed>
my ruby code
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<fir_ed>
but the console disappears
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<fir_ed>
too quickly and I can't read the error
<fir_ed>
What do I do?
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<Vinz_>
Hey guys, i was wondering if it was possible to do a match on an array entry ?
<Vinz_>
Linke array[0].match(/regex/)
<Vinz_>
like*
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<Vinz_>
fir_ed: Hm, execute your code inside a console so it won't close by itself ?
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<fir_ed>
Vinz_, Thank you that worked.
<Vinz_>
:)
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<Vinz_>
Nevermind, I found by myself :)
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<elico>
fir_ed: log it into file..
<Vinz_>
Or just read the output in a console
<Vinz_>
While executing the code by ruby myfile.rb
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