<roh>
so.. there are already 2 major vendors with capture cards around.. need to dig deeper? i dont think so
<roh>
ah.. and then there are these hdmi-repeaters/splitters... guess what they do... decode hdcp and run N outputs uncrypted... wouldnt work anyhow otherwise
<roh>
so.. no.. hdcp isnt what i consider working drm.
<wpwrak>
what i mean to say is that HDCP is an obstacle even to "legal" use by customers. yet it succeeded. (well, was forced down everyone's throat)
<damo22>
just because they have so far failed to enforce drm doesnt mean they wont stop trying, and we cant just sit there and let them do it
<wpwrak>
this illustrates the limits of "just say no"
<roh>
wpwrak: i wouldnt call that 'succeed'
<roh>
wpwrak: most times hdcp isnt even enabled.. due to 'needs to work'
<damo22>
they want to put DRM into operating systems
<wpwrak>
don't DVD players insist on it ?
<roh>
wpwrak: the only reason people use hdmi instead of dvi is 'it transports audio as well' and that the plugs are nicer
<roh>
wpwrak: so what... every chinese tv has the keys
<roh>
wpwrak: and the master keys were leaked/exposed some years ago. its goners
<wpwrak>
well yes. now it's of course broken.
<roh>
the only reason bunnie made himself so much work was that he did NOT want to use these keys
<damo22>
if they put drm into operating system level, and hardware level, we wont be able to use drop in replacement free software to decode the content
<roh>
my point is: by definition there will never be broadcast which has working drm. the flaw is in the concept
<roh>
damo22: you already have all the hw you need
<roh>
damo22: the tpm in your machine combined with a bit of sw could do such a thing... but since its not helping the user, nobody does use/need it.
<roh>
the only thing advancing every time some drm system gets enforced is the speed of it being hacked/circumvented.
<damo22>
how come i cant buy a laptop that ships with windows 8 and put linux on it
<roh>
you can
<damo22>
without doing something crazy to my brand new laptop
<roh>
to be fair.. i havent heard a single argument of a change to 10 years ago
<damo22>
some new laptops are so locked down you cant even boot a cd unless you remove the hard drive first
<damo22>
which might be difficult to do if its a ssd fused to the mobo
<roh>
damo22: why should anybody buy something like that?
<damo22>
people do, theyre cheap
<roh>
so are computers that work
<roh>
damo22: do you remember video2000?
<damo22>
no
<roh>
heh.. but you know vhs?
<damo22>
yeah
<roh>
you know why?
<damo22>
nope
<roh>
video2000 was cheaper and basically had a minor technical advantage... but it failed.
<roh>
it failed because the vendor doing it prohibited prerecorded porn to be sold on that medium... so thats the story why video2000 failed and vhs rocked.... vhs had porn
<damo22>
omg
<roh>
now think again about drm and companies like apple and their politics when it comes to content.... i am sittin that one out, leaning back and listen to the music play...
<damo22>
i dont own an ithing
<damo22>
but not because you cant buy porn on itunes
<damo22>
i dont own an ithing because i dont want to be restricted to buy my electronic media from one store
<damo22>
or cripple the development of creativity
<roh>
you see...
<roh>
people use stuff as long as its convenient. if its not, they buy something different. so no reason to worry just because arm wants weird customers
<damo22>
yes but people are like sheep they buy anything that is convenient and that is a problem if one company gives them everything they want, at any price to their freedoms
<damo22>
especially if the competition is crippled by that company due to patents
<roh>
heh... well.. i dont see that
<damo22>
competition is healthy in a market
<damo22>
it promotes innovation
<damo22>
but if software companies collect patents like trading cards, instead of developing good software, innovation is crippled
<damo22>
i dont want to harp on about it, but my point is, if arm becomes in the habit of developing hardware that supports drm by specification, it makes it easier for large companies to standardise the idea that sharing is bad and people will have less choices to install free software onto new hardware
<roh>
damo22: thats what i do not believe yet.
<roh>
maybe the hw SUPPORTS drm. but thats something you pc does for 10 years now.
<roh>
its still not locked to anything.. and will not be. why? because the hw vendors want to sell.
<damo22>
it took microsoft 10 years but they removed the start button and now the hardware only boots windows
<lekernel>
roh, how much hardware have you been selling lately?
<roh>
lekernel: enough ;) my customers want stuff that works, all drm free
<damo22>
there should not be an option in the bios to lock it down to one OS that is out of the users control.. there is no benefit to the user
<damo22>
just because it is convenient to boot up in 2 seconds, doesnt help the user if he/she decides the system is a piece of crap
<larsc>
works for 90% of the users though
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<viric>
as for drivers, it may be as any other phone, no?
<larsc>
yea, I don't think the focus is on free software here
<viric>
neither free hw
<viric>
but they claim "Open, flexible design"
<viric>
"Root access: Install your preferred operating system and take control of your data"
<viric>
"In discussions with developer communities to make Fairphone optimized for other open-source platforms"
<viric>
"Our next steps include implementing additional open design elements. We’re joining forces with open developer platforms like Ubuntu and FireFox to offer users the choice of OS upon purchase of the phone."
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<damo22>
looks like another android clone
<viric>
sure
<viric>
but the different approach is interesting
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