Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<wpwrak>
cladamw: (string to number) simple: you can't :)
<cladamw>
wpwrak, hehe ... okay.
<wpwrak>
but if you have a string value in a table, you can always add another column with a numeric value
<cladamw>
yeah ... i did like that way. :-)
<wpwrak>
or try to use numbers as much as possible and only convert them to strings when you really need a string
<cladamw>
yeah ... indeed.
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<qi-bot>
[commit] Adam Wang: stdpass.fpd: added a cathode for polarized variants(xxxxP) started from 0603 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/c05a603
<wpwrak>
oh, and if you want to use string comparison, then you should upgrade your fped and use the new key feature :)
<wpwrak>
upgrading fped should be very easy: git pull and then make install
<cladamw>
hmm ... do now
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<cladamw>
wpwrak, rev 59b90b3 ?
<wpwrak>
yup
<cladamw>
:)
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<wpwrak>
when editing a variable or column name, you'see that there's a new field above the name. it says "assign". if you click on it, it changes to "key" and a question mark appears before the name in the table
<wpwrak>
you can change it back to "assign" by editing it again and clicking on "key"
<wpwrak>
if it's set to "assign", it works as it did before
<wpwrak>
if it is set to "key", fped will look for a variable/column with that name, and only consider the rows of the table where the values match
<cladamw>
when a variable is set to "key", i see a '?key'
<cladamw>
s/?key/?variable
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<cladamw>
so a '?variable' means expression like if variable = xx then do ... ?
<wpwrak>
yes, exactly
<cladamw>
good, need to practice. tks a lot. :-)
<wpwrak>
any of the keys in a row doesn't match (you can have more than one key if you like things complicated :), then the row is simply ignored. just as if you had deleted it
<cladamw>
alright
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<cladamw>
wpwrak, where can i find your X1 datasheet url of atben ?
<cladamw>
wpwrak, sorry, no need. :-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: have you considered just adding guile instead of inventing YALNON? (yet another language no one needs)
<whitequark>
or (gasp) javascript, for all those arduino kids. I'm for guile, through.
<qi-bot>
Jon Phillips: @jugendingenieur (teenage engineering) are my new heroes! @qihardware @fabricatorz @sharism ( 210569579527806978@rejon - 46s ago via Ping.fm )
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<wolfspraul>
wow this ultrasonic cleaner is so cool
<wolfspraul>
I stacked up on a whole bunch of tools for my home lab, great advantage of beijing that pretty much all tools cost at most 50 usd
<wolfspraul>
the cleaner was maybe 20 usd or so
<wolfspraul>
what happens if I hold my finger in it? :-)
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<kyak>
wolfspraul: that was your last phrase, are you in a hospital now? :)
<wolfspraul>
nah
<wolfspraul>
contemplating which finger is best for the test :-)
<wolfspraul>
that cleaner is really cool, I will go through all sorts of things and really clean them finally
<kyak>
does it look like a dish washing machine?
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<wolfspraul>
it's very small, household appliance
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<whitequark>
wolfspraul: just put your finger in
<whitequark>
nothing will happen
<whitequark>
well, except maybe some cleaning. nothing harmful, definitely
<wolfspraul>
I would think so too. you feel some tickling?
<whitequark>
yeah, a little bit
<wolfspraul>
maybe I do an animal test first? :-) (just kidding, just kidding)
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<qi-bot>
Jon Phillips: Great to see @qihardware wikipedia entry in -‡ http://t.co/oegvboqn @xiangfu @sharism @fabricatorz ( 210604132258684928@rejon - 28s ago via Ping.fm )
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (cleaner) you'll feel a weak tingling sensation :)
<wpwrak>
that is, unless you got some especially mean device. but that one would rip your chips apart, too.
<wpwrak>
ah, you tried. good :)
<wolfspraul>
yes, tried
<wolfspraul>
the box even has German on it, seems Germans like cleaning
<wolfspraul>
since I buy a (hard to find) ultrasonic cleaner in a beijing street market, and then the outside of the box is in German :-)
<wolfspraul>
that cleaner, 25 USD. rework station, 25 USD. dremel 20 usd. drilling machine, 20 USD, etc. etc.
<wpwrak>
or maybe it's for the swiss. they're even a bit more obsessive about such things :)
<wolfspraul>
laser printer, 100 usd. a little on the expensive side :-)
<wolfspraul>
iron, 15 usd
<wolfspraul>
they also have (original) weller soldering irons here, but when you hear those prices (300 usd for a simple iron), it's like from another planet
<wpwrak>
(ultrasonic cleaner) i wonder what model you got. hope it's not too powerful. you chips don;t need much encouragement.
<wolfspraul>
I simply buy the cheapest first, then find out what breaks, where performance lacks, etc. it's much more fun (and faster) playing with a cheap 20 USD thingie and then scaling up when needed...
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<whitequark>
(tingling sensation) was that a nethack reference?..
<whitequark>
(fped) very interesting, I should really try the kicad toolchain
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<wolfspraul>
cups was mentioned the other day. what's the short story on it?
<wolfspraul>
apple bought the devs/copyright a while ago, and then?
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<wpwrak>
(nethack) maybe unconsciously ;-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: looks like a good choice. not too potent. lacks a frequency sweep (to avoid resonances), but that's to be expected at the low end.
<wpwrak>
(cups) the (apple-paid) developers recently dropped a feature used on linux. it seemed like an unfriendly act but without overly severe consequences to me.
<wpwrak>
(don't remember the details)
<wolfspraul>
ah ok
<wolfspraul>
you think the ultrasonic action can damage chips? how so?
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<wpwrak>
if it hits the resonant frequency of some elements in the chip (e.g., leads), then they can break
<wpwrak>
at least that's what i've read. haven't had any chip fail due to ultrasound damage yet :)
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<wolfspra1l>
understood
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<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I'm thinking about the issues around submerging an entire pcba in water
<wolfspraul>
naturally you don't want it to be powered anywhere, #1
<wolfspraul>
which includes batteries or supercaps
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<wolfspraul>
but what else on the board could be incompatible with water? some parts where the water might soak into?
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<wolfspraul>
vias in the pcb even? or some water under a mechanical connector where it doesn't dry easily
<wolfspraul>
how would you dry the board after water submersion?
<wolfspraul>
what should be the longest time under water? 3 minutes? more? less?
<wolfspraul>
just thinking
<wolfspraul>
there's probably a number of things that could be soldered on a pcb that better not get submerged in water, I would think
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<vladkorotnev>
hey guys
<vladkorotnev>
just a quick question
<vladkorotnev>
what program is to run a prog with a different encoding in a tty that is incompatible?
<vladkorotnev>
like iconv, but for progs
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<jivs_>
hi xiangfu
<xiangfu>
jivs_, Hi
<jivs_>
I have now solved that error in my 64bit system by adding disable-shared on guile makefile
<jivs_>
Can you try that and see in your system plz
<jivs_>
strangely the error occurs only in 64bit systems. so it took me time to figure out the solution
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<xiangfu>
jivs_, great. compile just fine. please commit your change.
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<jivs_>
excellent
<jivs_>
I will commit now
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<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (water) normally, pcbas don't mind water or alcohol. if any power sources are present, ions may make contact in some form, but it's usually a non-issue, because the very reason why you want to clean it has probably already provided plenty of ions free to do as they please
<wpwrak>
also, you should use demineralized water (in the cleaner) to avoid adding ions
<wpwrak>
to evict tap water (manual cleaning), i use alcohol
<wpwrak>
with the ultrasonic bath, i just the the critter dry
<wpwrak>
one risk may be that packages absorb some water and could then suffer damage when soldering
<wpwrak>
but their ability to do that is also limited. so it's probably fairly safe. i don't recall any issues in solder-clean-solder/rework cycles, even with obstinate components
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<wolfspraul>
you mean you clean the bathtub (?) with alcohol first?
<wolfspraul>
and what do you mean with "use the critter dry"? don't understand
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<wpwrak>
(bathtub) naw, a few lone ions won't hurt :)
<wpwrak>
the alcohol would be for cases where you scrub a pcb(a) manually under the tap
<wpwrak>
(critter dry) the pcba. shaking off the excess (deionized) water is often enough
<wpwrak>
the electrical problem with water is not the H2O itself but the ions. so as long as the water is reasonably pure it won't cause much trouble
<wpwrak>
the other problem with water is the formation of steam, when heated. if this happens in a confined space, a (tiny) explosion will result
<wolfspraul>
I can't follow
<wolfspraul>
so basically you say "use demineralized water only"
<wolfspraul>
that's #1
<wolfspraul>
then no need for special drying, just shaking off the water and waiting a bit for it to evaporate. maybe hair dryer?
<wolfspraul>
or no hair dryer, because of steam problem...
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<DocScrutinizer05>
(<wolfspraul> wpwrak: I'm thinking about the issues around submerging an entire pcba in water) things that don't like water at all: microphone, battery, several switches, possibly barometric sensor, humidity sensor
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wolfspraul: removing water under chips and from inside mech switches is hard
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wolfspraul: I usually clean severely polluted PCBA under flowing tap water, with a smooth brush. then rinse with pure alcohol (it's hygroscopic and will dillute/supersede the water - partially). Then I dry PCBA on slightly elevated temperature (50°C, PC's PSU exhaust fan etc) for at least 3 days, depending on my guts feeling regarding problematic components on that particular PCBA sometimes even for a week or two
<DocScrutinizer05>
protecting things like speakers, microphones etc that can't get removed from PCBA
<DocScrutinizer05>
some scortchtape patch often helps for those components
<DocScrutinizer05>
Scotch
<wolfspraul>
interesting
<DocScrutinizer05>
aaah, I forgot one step
<wolfspraul>
that's a different use case though (but still very good), where you have a very dirty pcba after years of use
<DocScrutinizer05>
blow out water/alcohol with pressurized air
<wolfspraul>
yeah, ok
<wolfspraul>
got it
<wolfspraul>
thanks!
<DocScrutinizer05>
(years of use) usually spilled coke
<DocScrutinizer05>
or the like
<DocScrutinizer05>
even more often simply dropped device into water / soup / toilet / whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
beer XP - I actually heard of someone whose friends or dunno who threw his device into his beer
<DocScrutinizer05>
"here, that's what you can do with your damn phone!" ;-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
time for another coffee here
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<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the hair dryer is just hot air. it won't cause water to expand violently :)
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<wpwrak>
(beer phone) interesting concept :)
<wpwrak>
basically anything that doesn't need special precautions when soldering should be fine with water. after all, that's how pcbas are cleaned in industry as well.
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<wolfspraul>
a complete pcba in water? I haven't seen that so far
<wolfspraul>
we can ask Adam tomorrow
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<wolfspraul>
brushes yes
<wolfspraul>
I cannot really imagine a wide-spread use of water for pcba cleaning even just because drying will be slow, and every second matters
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: so ... how boom's "back office" works
<wolfspraul>
listening
<wolfspraul>
(but my evening wine bottle is already opened :-)
<wpwrak>
that's the part of it that knows part characteristics and the inventories of providers
<wolfspraul>
so reception quality may degrade
<wpwrak>
or improve ;-)
<wpwrak>
what it does is that it starts with a relatively general query on digi-key, e.g., "murata".
<wpwrak>
this will yield a list of categories. it picks the one we're interested in at that time.
<wpwrak>
then it refines the query by making selections in the parametric search
<wpwrak>
all this query process is something someone has to set up manually. the goal is to extract all the elements belonging to a certain produce series, e.g., the xyz series of ceramic caps
<wpwrak>
s/produce/product
<qi-bot>
wpwrak meant: "all this query process is something someone has to set up manually. the goal is to extract all the elements belonging to a certain product series, e.g., the xyz series of ceramic caps"
<wpwrak>
with the list, the "backend" goes to the detailed page for each item and extracts part number, pricing, stock, and textual description
<wpwrak>
it stores pricing, stock, and description keyed by vendor plus vendor part number
<wpwrak>
then it takes the vendor part number and decodes it. there are scripts (again, manually provided), that do this kind of work. they generate a list of parameters for that part
<wpwrak>
these go in turn into the parts characteristics database
<wpwrak>
and that's all
<wpwrak>
then the "interactive" part of boom comes and searches the characteristics for, say, T=R R=100k FP=0603 TOL<=5%
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<wpwrak>
the "backend" runs indendently from the frontend. could even run in a central place and distribute tarballs of the tables it generates. not sure about copyright issues, though. at least the textual descriptions should be copyrightable, if not prices, inventory, and provider part numbers as well