cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it
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<LarstiQ>
I guess pytest --pdb to dig a bit what happens?
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* ThomasWaldmann
tries. btw, the "latest release" referred to my laptop, didn't look yet what travis has.
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<ThomasWaldmann>
the mimetype issue is not present on a pure stdlib mimetypes instance, but in moin, we add more stuff from pygments to the mimetypes map. guess it must be accidentally right on cpython, but wrong on pypy, due to different directory items order.
* ThomasWaldmann
added a sorted() to see if it then succeeds/fails on both pythons in the same way
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<ThomasWaldmann>
strange, still different
<ThomasWaldmann>
btw, is there a way to get same dict/set ordering on pypy2 as on cpython 2.7?
<ThomasWaldmann>
(we have some slightly crappy tests that fall over that)
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<antocuni>
ThomasWaldmann: change the tests? :)
<ThomasWaldmann>
antocuni: i saw that coming :)
<antocuni>
Even on CPython ordering is not guaranteed among runs
<antocuni>
if you always get the same order it's just by chance
<ThomasWaldmann>
somehow it had worked. with tox i needed PYTHONRANDOMSEED = 0, but before that not even that.
<antocuni>
probably because for some reason your objects are always allocated at similar addresses
<antocuni>
but really, before 3.6 ordering is not guaranteed at all, so if your tests depend on it they are broken
<nedbat>
i think on python 2, the ordering will always be the same, since it is based on the hash of the objects, so long as the random seed is the same. But it was never promised.
* ThomasWaldmann
filed a bug about the pygments issue btw.
<ThomasWaldmann>
yeah
<antocuni>
nedbat: the hash of instances depends on the address (i.e., the return value of id()); so it depends on the memory allocator
<nedbat>
antocuni: equal objects need to hash equally, so the hash can't depend on the id()
<antocuni>
the default __eq__ returns "x is y" :)
<nedbat>
antocuni: ok, but strings don't do that
<antocuni>
oh, I missed the point in which we said we were talking about dict-only strings; maybe in the logs, sorry for that then
<antocuni>
that said, the exact order depends on low level implementation details of dicts; maybe they didn't change so often (or never!), but I'd say it's a really bad practice to depend on it
<antocuni>
dict order is not guaranteed in Python < 3.6, just live with it and code consequently
<nedbat>
i agree it is bad to depend on it
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<_habnabit>
so if i want to write a VM of some sort, is there a reason to choose pypy over llvm or vice versa? also: does it matter if it's, say, emulating the PPC ISA
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