cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it
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<Hasimir>
mattip, I believe Sigyn is one of pinkieval's pet projects, so you can probably just get him to whitelist bbot2 for you
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<mattip>
Alex_Gaynor: can you get bbot2 unbanned in this channel, not sure what the mode command to do it is
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<Alex_Gaynor>
mattip_: I don't know the command either, I didn't think it had been banned
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<LarstiQ>
Alex_Gaynor: I think it's about the mode, was it +r or +q?
<Alex_Gaynor>
the channel's mode does not have +q or +r as far as I can tell
* LarstiQ
couldn't speak either just now
<Alex_Gaynor>
Possibly unregistered nicks are quieted? I thought I added an exemption for bbot on that though
* LarstiQ
couldn't change nick (from unregisterd with a trailing _) while in the channel
<LarstiQ>
"12:03:51 [freenode] -!- LarstiQ #pypy Cannot change nickname while banned on channel"
<Alex_Gaynor>
I think the spam wave has stopped, so I can probably undo that... if someone can tell me how.
<LarstiQ>
"01:20:55 -!- mode/#pypy [+q $~a] by Alex_Gaynor" is how it was enabled, so maybe /mode -q?
<Alex_Gaynor>
ok, should be done
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<LarstiQ>
sigh
<maxxam>
what are the odds calling reversed() repeatedly and frequently on a large dict.keys() view might trigger a segfault in pypy3?
<LarstiQ>
maxxam: it sounds like you have evidence towards that? Or at least a segfault and wondering what the cause is?
<maxxam>
I’ve been reviewing the codebase at issue. Of 3 very similar data handlers, one runs fine for long periods (and much higher data volumes) under PyPy. The next handler uses identical code to #1. Handler #3 (the problem child) uses ALMOST identical code, but for the reversed() call and some trivial structure changes
<maxxam>
* Correction, it’s a SortedDict, not a dict
<maxxam>
I’m going to migrate #3 over to using the code from #1/#2 soonish, so that will give some hard evidence (if the segfaults stop, or if they continue)
* LarstiQ
nods
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<LarstiQ>
Alex_Gaynor: the spam wave being gone was maybe overly optimistic
<Alex_Gaynor>
I'm known as an overly optimistic person, so this makes sense
<LarstiQ>
:)
<atomizer>
i'm still confused, why not just register bot account(s)?
<atomizer>
unless they are run by someone who is not available
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<arigato>
maxxam: great that you're continuing efforts, but generally rare segfaults are almost never directly linked to the code base. they are instead something like the JIT which happens to miscompile code in some rather unlikely case
<arigato>
it's more likely that you have several code bases and only one of them happens to align the stars correctly for the segfault to occur
<arigato>
there is admittedly some not-well-tested code in dicts (sorted or not) that grow to more than 4 billion entries
<arigato>
this would require massive amounts of memory, though
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<arigato>
and the change from less-than-4G to more-than-4G should be "the same" as the change from byte to short and from short to int
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<maxxam>
arigato: could be, though I have made lots of changes to this code in the process of trying to track down the segfault and it kept persisting, so a miscompilation seems unlikely.
<maxxam>
arigato: I’m not storing dicts that large, so the 4 billion entry thing is not it
<maxxam>
(of course if the question were about 4 billion insertions over the life of the dict, then yes, that would likely be it!)
<arigato>
ok
<arigato>
note that unless you did change *all* loops that only exist in the segfaulting project, we can't know that---where "loop" is in the jit sense, a loop in Python code including all the inlined callees, all the details about the classes used, etc.
<arigato>
once again, it might be worth it for you to give one of us temporary access to the production system with the crashed "core" file and gdb, instead of poking blindly around
<arigato>
worth in term of the total time spent---I imagine you'll have to fight bureaucracy, or make us sign NDAs, or something
<maxxam>
arigato: aha, I see what you mean in terms of loops. No, I haven’t changed the relevant loop yet. Thanks to `faulthandler` I have a sense of which loop this is. As it happens I am revising that part of the codebase (the troublesome data handler is the oldest, and the ones that work are conveniently also doing things in a faster and all around better way). I’ve also mapped out a way to get the whole show performing under CPython in
<maxxam>
way that should not be any slower than PyPy is now, not because the code executes faster, but because I can cut out many execution steps…
<maxxam>
arigato: …therefore troubleshooting at this point is more a „spare time“ exercise to help you guys improve PyPy, not because it needs to be done to make this work
<arigato>
it's unlikely we can pin the problem to something concrete that exists in the Python code
<arigato>
though of course not completely impossible
<maxxam>
arigato: …I see why you guys put so much emphasis on test driven development.
<arigato>
pypy is a collection of independant pieces at various levels. you don't touch anything Python-specific when working on the JIT, but it also means you need to have tests for the JIT that are not just pieces of Python code
<arigato>
the same is true for all other pieces
<arigato>
(like the GC, in issue 2363)
<maxxam>
arigato: that makes sense, though I was referring more to the great difficulty of developing software that, like pypy, is prone to bugs like #2363, if you didn’t have very extensive tests
<arigato>
right
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<was>
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* mattip
trying to get bbot2 back on IRC
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