jemc changed the topic of #ponylang to: Welcome! Please check out our Code of Conduct => https://github.com/ponylang/ponyc/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md | Public IRC logs are available => http://irclog.whitequark.org/ponylang | Please consider participating in our mailing lists => https://pony.groups.io/g/pony
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS coepmr: sa aturley kai3x5 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS ndiexwxraq: mahmudov sa SeanTAllen ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS oikhwand: johshoff SeanTAllen dubiousjim â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â–„â
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS zzwvb: johshoff DDR jnyw ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS qmocnmjukr: acarrico DDR johshoff ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS smxyvdbds: DDR jnyw kai3x5 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS srajmqq: codec1 dubiousjim jmiven ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS slndhgajyt: kai3x5 DDR sa ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS yumjhvygh: Schwar dubiousjim Amun_Ra ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS fxomnm: kai3x5 DDR Schwar ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS vuftowm: jmiven codec1 mahmudov ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS prfbbttjn: jmiven mahmudov codec1 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS xsoooohyl: johshoff acarrico sa ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS giaepnozv: kai3x5 mahmudov jmiven ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS wqzxrp: acarrico dubiousjim Amun_Ra ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
<gakrash> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ##FEMINISM IS OFFERING TRAINING IN TAPPING INTO YOUR INNER FETISHES!! EL IS IN #FREENODE FOR ANY QUESTIONS nsqfj: jmiven Schwar mahmudov ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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<endformationage> sarna SeanTAllen : Catching up on the logs... FWIW, there are a number of basic math funs defined on Float (F32 | F64), including trig bits.
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<dubiousjim> Not sure anyone is joined now... but I'm learning Pony, and am not clear on why there's a `Integer[U8]` alongside `U8`.
<dubiousjim> Is the point that with the former, a class can declare that it implements the trait, so counts as an extension/subtype of U8?
<dubiousjim> Whereas `U8` is only a primitive, not a trait or interface...
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<sarna> endformationage: oh well '^ ^ at least I've learned something
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<dubiousjim> Confused about how printv works, and made the playground act very weird: http://playground.ponylang.org/?gist=7ed141902033cbe2f3bdaeaa832b9e1c
<dubiousjim> Sorry I have so many Qs, here's another: why is Seq declared as `Seq[A: A]` rather than `Seq[A: Any]`?
<sarna> do you want heterogeneous lists?
<sarna> Seq is a regular linked list, I think
<doublec> dubiousjim: that would be a bug in the compiler
<doublec> dubiousjim: Seq is declared as Seq[A]. Where are you seeing 'Seq[A: A]'?
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<sarna> also, printv works on iterable ByteSeqs. `type ByteSeq is (String val | Array[U8 val] val)`
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<sarna> not `Array[String]`
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<dubiousjim> As I said, sorry to ask so many Qs at once. Let Q1=me trying to understand `Interface[U8]` etc; Q2=me trying to understand printv; Q3=Seq[A:A].
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<dubiousjim> doublec: Here's where I see `Seq[A: A]`: <https://stdlib.ponylang.org/builtin-Seq/> Maybe the constraint is just implicit?
<dubiousjim> sarna: I wasn't seeking heterogenous lists, just trying to understand why the constraint in the declaration of `Seq` was `: A` rather than `: Any`
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<dubiousjim> doublev: was "that would be a bug in the compiler" about my playground link? If so, should I create an issue on Github? (Would search for similar issues first, but since I'm a newbie I might not be the best detector of what's a "similar issue".)
<dubiousjim> sarna: re `ByteSeq` vs `Array[String]`, I see thanks. Can someone give me a minimal working example demonstrating the correct use of `env.out.printv` then?
<sarna> dubiousjim: A: A means the first element has to have the same type as the rest of the elements. ie all of them being I32
<dubiousjim> thanks
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<dubiousjim> sarna: thanks, but no none of those help. I can't figure out yet how to create a ByteSeqIter. Going back to an earlier point, even if `Array[String]` isn't itself a `ByteSeq`, shouldn't one be able to generate a `ByteSeqIter` from it? But using `.values()` on an `Array[String]` or `Array[ByteSeq]` doesn't work.
<dubiousjim> As I said, I'm still only making baby steps with this language.
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<sarna> same
<sarna> I wasn't able to create ByteSeqIter either
<sarna> I thought `"string".values()` would work, but it didn't
<sarna> dubiousjim
<dubiousjim> kthx
<sarna> `Array[U8]` kinda works, but you need it to be `val`, and `.values()` doesn't return `val`
<sarna> in some code printv is just env.out.write
<vaninwagen> dubiousjim your playground link ( https://playground.ponylang.org/?gist=7ed141902033cbe2f3bdaeaa832b9e1c ) clearly shows a compiler bug, could you please create a github issue on the ponyc repo? With the example code, infos on your OS, your ponyc installation and the failing output?
<vaninwagen> that would be awesome
<vaninwagen> dubiousjim, Seq[A: A] this is just an expanded version of a type param, it is equivalent to Seq[A]. Basically an unconstrained type parameter (if i am correct here)
<vaninwagen> dubiousjim, sarna afaik OutStream.printv works on a ByteSeqIter: https://github.com/ponylang/ponyc/blob/master/packages/builtin/std_stream.pony#L3
<vaninwagen> ByteSeqIter is defined as val, so if you have an Array[String] val, it works
<vaninwagen> unfortunately, an array literal by default resolves to Array[T] ref
<vaninwagen> this is clearly a bug, that we hit an assertion with a ref array
<dubiousjim> vaninwagen: done <https://github.com/ponylang/ponyc/issues/2490>
<vaninwagen> thank you very much
<SeanTAllen> dubiousjim: can you put what you are doing for iterating that isn't working? a playground link please?
<vaninwagen> i will try to have a deeper look tomorrow
<SeanTAllen> sarna: "string".values()... "string" isn't Array[String] its Array[U8]
<sarna> ohh thanks vaninwagen
<vaninwagen> i also have to admit ByteSeqIter is a confusing name - ByteSeqIterable would be better
<sarna> SeanTAllen: yup
<dubiousjim> gotta run now, thanks for the clarifications... will post more details about how I was trying and failing to produce a ByteSeqIter later.
<vaninwagen> Integer[U8] is there because the trait needs to know the concrete type that it is going to implement because it needs to return exactly this on some methods (see here: https://github.com/ponylang/ponyc/blob/master/packages/builtin/real.pony#L173 )
<vaninwagen> this is a common technique to have a parameterized trait because it needs to know the concrete type at some point
<vaninwagen> this way U8(1).add(U8(1)) can be defined in the trait but still always return U8 in this particular case, althought this type is not known yet in the trait
<vaninwagen> i hope this makes sense
<sarna> I'm curious - what do you guys use pony for? I don't have any ideas for projects
<SeanTAllen> sarna: i use it at work
<sarna> wallaroolabs, right?
<SeanTAllen> yes
<sarna> yeah, I've seen your website
<sarna> sounds really cool
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<SeanTAllen> well that git lfs thing didnt work out, there a quota on how often you can use.
<SeanTAllen> I just paid $5 to get more bandwidth for LFS.
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<vaninwagen> sarna, i use pony for fun (no profit)
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<SeanTAllen> Pony 0.21.3 has been released: https://www.ponylang.org/blog/2018/01/0.21.3-released/. Upgrading is recommended.
<krig> How come this doesn't work? http://playground.ponylang.org/?gist=6eaa4843a33eea8c0239aa776dd7173d Type matching against a union of class types isn't supported, or am I misunderstanding something?
<krig> it looks like the match is against an instance of each class rather than the class name, but then I guess it's not possible to match against the class itself
<krig> ah, if I change the "| A =>" etc. to "| let _: A" it works as I expected
<codec1> yes
<vaninwagen> SeanTAllen, ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
<codec1> alternatively if you use primitive it should be good with the first syntax
<krig> codec1: yeah, I had only done type matching against primitives before, that's why I got confused.. :)
<codec1> yeah, but it makes since usually if you use class there will be methods and data in it
<codec1> and when you pattern match against it, you will probably want to get/modify some data and/or call a method
<codec1> and so you have to introduce a new variable binding
<vaninwagen> ah yeah, the second way you already found :)
<vaninwagen> i spent too much time on the playground :)
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<krig> vaninwagen: thanks anyway! the first version looks cleaner
<codec1> vaninwagen, can you explain why the Equatable allow to pattern match just on type?
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<vaninwagen> if you just use `A` in the pattern of the match, it will actually always call its constructor to create an instance on every match call.
<SeanTAllen> vaninwagen: i was surprised by that happening. Do you think it would be worth an FAQ? A pony pattern? Better matching documentation in the tutorial?
<vaninwagen> this pattern instance and the match expr instance are compared structurally using the `eq` method
<vaninwagen> SeanTAllen, i do think so too
<vaninwagen> here is a playground to show this: https://gist.github.com/4b73ca22e98ec69c804f1118523702a9
<SeanTAllen> vaninwagen: i think tutorial, what about you?
<SeanTAllen> krig this also works...
<vaninwagen> SeanTAllen, yeah, you create a tutorial issue, i fix it this week?
<vaninwagen> (next week)
<krig> SeanTAllen: yeah, I had been using primitives before but ended up with some items in the union where I wanted to attach data
<SeanTAllen> vaninwagen: can you create the tutorial issue? i dont think i have the mental something something to do it right now
<SeanTAllen> my not being able to come up with the word that i replaced with something something being indicative of that
<codec1> vaninwagen, the debug output is hard to read, I didn't expect so much constructors to be called tbh
<SeanTAllen> vaninwagen: it also strikes me as odd that | A looks to use 'eq' and | let a: A compiles without issue
<SeanTAllen> that feels like a bug of some sort
<vaninwagen> SeanTAllen, will do
<SeanTAllen> jemc knows the match code much better than i. jemc ^^^ is that a bug?
<SeanTAllen> or just me being really tired?
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<vaninwagen> i'd say this just feels odd, as `A` desugars to `A.create()` which then makes sense
<vaninwagen> this should be clearly documented in the tutorial
<codec1> seems weird for me, as I expect more to be a type signature than a constructor call
<SeanTAllen> i think it definitely calls for some discussion
<vaninwagen> to me it kindof makes sense, but i also stumbled upon it once
<vaninwagen> the gist is: only the `let _: T` case patterns match only on the type
<codec1> yes, but it the other it feels that somehow the let _ part was left on we are doing pattern match on type, while we aren't
<codec1> so I would say it make sense, but it is rather tricky and somewhat not intuitive
<SeanTAllen> definitely not intuitive
<SeanTAllen> i know pony
<SeanTAllen> im tired
<vaninwagen> yes, i totally agree
<SeanTAllen> and it took me a little bit to figure out what was going on
<codec1> you okay ?
<vaninwagen> it even calls constructors on primitives: https://gist.github.com/8533e7f43e1595c61a698c033bf86ee2
<SeanTAllen> me?
<codec1> yep, maybe it just me but it sounded a bit depressed to me
<SeanTAllen> no
<SeanTAllen> not depressed
<SeanTAllen> just tired
<krig> ah, so it's not that it treats classes differently, it creates an instance of the primitive and compares that as well
<SeanTAllen> thanks for the concern though
<SeanTAllen> krig
<SeanTAllen> same thing happens with `is` with how some people use it (so theres an issue open to address)
<SeanTAllen> like when folks do
<SeanTAllen> "hello" is String
<SeanTAllen> that will never be true
<vaninwagen> krig i am not sure about multiple instances of primitives
<SeanTAllen> because it is comparing identity and its "hello" and a new String
<vaninwagen> SeanTAllen yeah, same case
<krig> the create sugar seems to cause some ambiguities (sp?)
<krig> vaninwagen: hm, I see
<krig> SeanTAllen: yeah, that's a bit tricky. One would expect it either to fail to compile or to compare type..
<vaninwagen> krig btw my solution with using Equatable[ABC] will not work correctly https://gist.github.com/969dd6a5902e0ca8900cf079014811a7 - you spot why?
<vaninwagen> it prints nothing
<krig> vaninwagen: I'm guessing that the default implementation for Equatable compares by identity, so it compares the two instances of each class which are not the same
<vaninwagen> boom!
<vaninwagen> yezzzz
<vaninwagen> my bad
<codec1> such enthusiasm
<krig> hehe
<vaninwagen> krig, the only thing i do not like about https://github.com/krig/pony-fmt is that it sounds very much like https://github.com/mfelsche/ponyfmt :)
<SeanTAllen> a different name would be good
<SeanTAllen> whenever i cant think of what to call something, I call it Free Candy.
<krig> vaninwagen: SeanTAllen: oh no
<krig> I'll rename
<vaninwagen> sorry, krig
<krig> my bad
<vaninwagen> krig, i love how i can drag arround not yet fully filled formats around with this
<SeanTAllen> when you rename, drop a note in "Last Week in Pony" so folks who say this week will know about the name change
<krig> yeah, I made a similar thing in C++ before and it was really convenient
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<krig> ..and called it strfmt, hence the name collision.. I had seen ponyfmt before but somehow didn't think about it. :/
<krig> SeanTAllen: will do
<sarna> is there a way of creating macros in pony?
<vaninwagen> sarna, implementing them in the compiler ;)
<sarna> heck
<vaninwagen> so, no unfortunately not (yet)
<vaninwagen> the only thing remotely related is ifdef
<sarna> I see
<sarna> that's some well-written code Oo
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