<beneroth>
freemint2, its an picolisp web app example
<aw->
hi beneroth
<aw->
up late?
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<freemint>
i know, just made me wake up again
<beneroth>
aw-, oh yeah. oh too late. got home at 11pm and then lost reading on the internet again. oopsie
<aw->
haha
<beneroth>
well I can sleep a bit longer tomorrow :)
<freemint>
I was curious what attempts were made to replicate ORG mode style functionality
<freemint>
The first place to look seemed pil. If nothing is available i am going to be forced to built something with the web server
<freemint>
*Vip
<beneroth>
whats wrong with using the original emacs org mode?
<freemint>
i am going to need to use the web server in the long run anyway but to find out what works for me a faster modifiable console only approach would be preferred
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<freemint>
@whats wrong with ORG mode: - poor android support - i like picolisp better than emacs lisp so i better ask whether the is anything that does what i want in pil first
<beneroth>
I haven't heard of anyone trying to replicate org in vip, or in pil in general. there are multiple org-lovers in the pil community.
<beneroth>
rick42 is also an org lover
<freemint>
there seems to be no effort to rebuild ORG mode in general
<freemint>
(or i could not find any)
<beneroth>
I haven't tried emacs on android, but whats wrong with it?
<beneroth>
and beside the emacs gui app there might be also a emacs command line version for termux?
<freemint>
all the meta keys become annoying even with physical keyboard
<freemint>
support outside the console does not seem to be great. The most praised app makes it nearly impossible to do nested todo's
<beneroth>
how about using it with penti?
<freemint>
beneroth what is wrong with me asking for a PicoLisp solution first?
<beneroth>
nothing :)
<beneroth>
but we should not re-implement things without good reasons
<beneroth>
(learning or for fun are good reasons)
<freemint>
beneroth *duh* i had that discussion with Regenaxer already: Screen is to small
<beneroth>
ah right, I forgot
<beneroth>
why aren't you sleeping, freemint ?
<beneroth>
I really need to go to bed now :)
<beneroth>
good night freemint
<beneroth>
have a good day aw- :)
<aw->
beneroth: thanks, g'nite
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<Regenaxer>
beneroth, right, does the analog of #ifdef, or, more correct, #endif
<Regenaxer>
freemint, I have not thought much about orgmode. Full concentration in Vip was on editing
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<freemint>
Regenaxer What technical hurdles would there be to implement n ORG mode?
<freemint>
Is the key handling sufficiently mighty?
<Regenaxer>
Which keys?
<freemint>
keyboard keys
<freemint>
can you have a key binding which temporarily overshadows other key bindings?
<Regenaxer>
How can that be mighty? Anyway I have no experience with orgmode (or interest)
<Regenaxer>
Keys are dependinn
<Regenaxer>
Keys are depending on the context
<freemint>
ok
<Regenaxer>
I extended my own vip in ~/.pil/viprc
<Regenaxer>
there you can do many things
<Nistur>
mornin'
<Regenaxer>
I defined more function keys there for example
<Nistur>
I see org mode mentioned
<Regenaxer>
Hi Nistur
<Nistur>
is that emacs org-mode?
<freemint>
yes
<Nistur>
<3
<freemint>
my question was whether there is a PicoLisp reimplementation and how far it covers certain features
<freemint>
it would interface with vip
<Nistur>
what is vip?
* Nistur
has been out of touch with everything because work is absolutely insane recently
<Nistur>
Not too much actually, I just have been using emacs for the last... um... 10...12 years
<Nistur>
I started with vi/vim for I think 6 years before that
<Nistur>
I just like pretending to be part of the editor war
<freemint>
it has better extendability than emacs, because it is not just 60% lisp but 100% Lisp (minus ncurses)
<Nistur>
when actually it's just that I'm used to all the things I get in emacs
<freemint>
Regenaxer Can you tell me how the buffers work in PicoLisp?
<Nistur>
I'll look at vip though
<Nistur>
looks interesting :)
<freemint>
Regenaxer Can you have code interact with non displayed buffers?
<Regenaxer>
Buffers are list of lists of chars
<freemint>
ok
<Regenaxer>
So yes, you can interact in any way
<Regenaxer>
Even on the : repl in vip
<Regenaxer>
in the bottom buffer
<Regenaxer>
not trivial though probably
<freemint>
Is there a notion of modes tied to buffers which control the key binding?
<Regenaxer>
There is command mode and insert mode only
<freemint>
could you write new modes easily?
<Regenaxer>
yes!!! :)
<Regenaxer>
Everything is easy in pil
<freemint>
(Nistur since you more experience with ORG mode than me, could you think of some features which would be hard to in vim?)
<freemint>
I saw a few presentations about it yesterday, ORG mode seems decent
<Regenaxer>
Vip is an editor, I see no advantage to boost it as an application
<Regenaxer>
Better separate such stuff
<Regenaxer>
Emacs is not an editor but a whole env
<Regenaxer>
so it is a different philosophy
<freemint>
mhh there is another thing i thought about, doing an emacs style web app via the app.l framework
<Regenaxer>
sorry, tel
<freemint>
this would allow for "handwriting" and painting with graphic tablets in the browser
<freemint>
Nistur what would you think about emacs style application in the browser?
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<freemint>
tankf33der do you use ORG mode?
<tankf33der>
no
<freemint>
or emacs?
<freemint>
also i am wondering what pilDB could bring to an "picolisp-style" orgmode
<tankf33der>
freemint: all this unknown to me
<tankf33der>
im wrong person discuss all this
<freemint>
no problem the last question was in to the round
<Nistur>
freemint: I don't know what would be hard to do in vim, I just don't look because org-mode already does everything I need :P My CV's in org-mode, my dissertation in uni was org-mode, I took notes with org-mode... *shrug*
<freemint>
mhh ok ... i was hoping to get some insights from ORG mode users here.
<Nistur>
freemint: I can tell you some of the features of org-mode that I'd need if you really want
<Nistur>
or rather, give you some use cases :P
<freemint>
that would be interesting
<aw->
freemint: wouldn't it be easier to just "use org mode" yourself?
<Nistur>
also, as pil runs on Android, this would be great for me, as the current thing I use sucks a bit, Orgzly
<freemint>
so does emacs?
<Nistur>
How dare you blaspheme against the church of emacs...? :P
<freemint>
on emacs runs in Termux too
<Nistur>
emacs does suck a bit, but not in ways that generally affect me (plus it is incredibly awesome in ways that _does_ affect me)
<freemint>
emacs runs in the same way is pil does. Anyhow tell me about what you would not want to miss
<Nistur>
anyway, one example of a relatively simple use case is my CV, it uses no really complex features of org-mode, apart from exporting to PDF through LaTeX... https://github.com/nistur/cv which, to be honest, is pretty important I think, as a lot of things I've written in org-mode, I've wanted to export at some point or another
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<freemint>
export was on my list too
<Nistur>
(I'm just giving examples of non-organiser tasks, as you can find examples of those all over the place)
<razzy>
i am also torn. i wish for emacs functionality in picolisp. or
<razzy>
picolisp hardware support in emacs :]
<razzy>
now i using both, and integrating picolisp into emacs. after that i will change picolisp a bit. and after that i will migrate emacs functionality into pil :]
<freemint>
razzy would you a cli interface or would a browser interface (with all the good text displaying, animateabilty, pictures) be prefered?
<razzy>
for forseeable future i wish for cli
<razzy>
web interface seem nice.
<razzy>
but you need web browser for that :]
<razzy>
my goal is cli with pictures and video (propably in separate window)
<razzy>
also i would not say cli, but text-user-interface or ascii graphics
<freemint>
ok i was thinking about doing everything in browser even if Javascript *shudder* since it would add features emacs can not match
<razzy>
i consider web with all the mess dead :]
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<razzy>
text with pictures and downloadable videos are what i consider good web :]
<razzy>
kind of where w3m stopped its development
<razzy>
imho is javascript experiment going wrong :] or teenage fun
<razzy>
do not get me wrong. ability to run your code on visitor machine is very powerfull and can reduce server and connection loads. but todays ecosystems, OS and users are *not* prepared to handle that ability safe or productively
<razzy>
so i use modern web browser least i must.
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<Regenaxer>
tankf33der: I released a modifier 'create' which is a little bit more memory-conservative
<Regenaxer>
s/modifier/modified
<tankf33der>
i will try something.
<Regenaxer>
ok
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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, you stick with the name "create" ? Why not "bulk" ?
<Regenaxer>
Hmm
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<Regenaxer>
It is not really limited to bulk imports
<Regenaxer>
'bulk' is taken btw in many apps here
<Regenaxer>
'import' would have been best, but exists already
<Regenaxer>
'update' exists too
<Regenaxer>
So I went with create, as it creates a database
<Regenaxer>
typically not used in normal use, more at creation time
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<Regenaxer>
The comments of 'request' and 'obj' also talk about "create", and they have a similar signature
<Regenaxer>
(create '(+Cls) ... # Create objects of type (+Cls)
<beneroth>
:)
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<Regenaxer>
The above "little bit more memory-conservative" means also a little bit slower, but I find saving memory more important, to be able to import more indexes in parallel
<Regenaxer>
(each index starts its own process with a few hundred MiB, before it was almost a GiB per process)