<tankf33der>
i'm wasting time on adventofcode tasks. i will try next week, ok ?
<Regenaxer>
Sure, no hurry!
<tankf33der>
i will stop adventofcode and take a rest till next week.
<tankf33der>
see you.
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<Regenaxer>
:)
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<rick42>
for mike, adventofcode is like crack cocaine :)
<rick42>
hello everyone
<Regenaxer>
:) hi rick42
<rick42>
hey Regenaxer! :(
<rick42>
:)
<rick42>
wrong one lol
<Regenaxer>
thought so :)
<razzy>
what if not get inform means you will die sooner?
<Regenaxer>
:o
<razzy>
response to the "we are informing ourselves to death"
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<beneroth>
razzy, you read it through? I don't think you grokked it if you ask this question. Or you're joking.
<beneroth>
the point is, information and computing has value without purpose. it's very attractive to some people (like us), but its not meaningful without being used for something. else it is just confusing (information overload). and it can also be used for bad purposes (and it increasingly is in current times).
<beneroth>
it's a waste of time and resources to compute all possible answers if we don't know the questions which matter.
<razzy>
my response is a joke to title. i think i grooked it. i think author presents more questions to audience than what you say
<razzy>
and i still think that more efficiency and power is better than less efficiency and power. if the costs are the same
<beneroth>
it might be efficient, but not effective. results is only what matters. and if you waste time/energy to build a very efficient machine with no output (or you could have had the same output quicker), than you did wrong.
<razzy>
why am i for computers :]
<beneroth>
well computers do help to understand and hopefully develop mitigations (or even counter-measures) to e.g. climate change.
<razzy>
propable result for all in this universe is death.
<beneroth>
but it does not solve anything. the solutions have to be found and implemented socially.
<beneroth>
nihilism is just another excuse to be lazy and comfortable, I think.
<razzy>
no matter th road :]
<rick42>
This --> <beneroth> it's a waste of time and resources to compute all possible answers if we don't know the questions which matter.
<razzy>
soo, my counterargument to "result is all"
<razzy>
the interesting question would be "is there afterlife? next universe? is everything destined to die in the end of universe?"
<rick42>
that's another reason why i like lisp: not only is it a great PL, but the analogy to philosophy is not far off: "lisp is all about value" :D
<rick42>
being punny ofc
<rick42>
bbl
<razzy>
beneroth: thx for grokk info :]. i still like phonetically more "grook" for understanding by being the puzzle itself
<beneroth>
"to grok" is an actual verb from that novel "Stranger in a strange land" (which kinda kicked of the hippie movement btw.) from a fictious marsian language.
<beneroth>
and afaik 'grok' is phonetically correct, it is not pronounced like "groot"
<beneroth>
and to your questions about afterlife: fine musing, and/or just another lazy excuse to not tackle the actual problems of the present
<beneroth>
the order in your flat? making a living? people living in misery? demographic development of "western" societies endangering the nearly 100 year old social contracts (public health systems, retirement/pension systems? growing unemployment rates? common education, common sense and common knowledge dropping (probably a consequence of the web, among others - democracy cannot stay stable without an educated population) ? current migration issues causes by wars
<beneroth>
and economic misery? climate change? wars and violent conflicts? more wars and violent conflicts to be expected in the near future caused by climate change, economic turmoil, demographic development in "developing" countries (majority of the population below 20) ? the more (massiv bigger) migration issues to be expected caused by an increasing number of wars, economic problems and weather problems caused by climate change? the still ongoing danger of comp
<beneroth>
lete annihilation of all known life (well some bacteria may make it) within minutes by a nuclear war?
<beneroth>
there is much to do.
<Regenaxer>
yes, instead of falling back into the middle ages
<Regenaxer>
ie people switching off their brains and believing nonsense
<beneroth>
but that's easier. and people are bad attuned to chaos (freedom without self-discipline?), they usually prefer wrong answers to no answers.
<razzy>
well i bet that for envimental climate-safe are good mushroom forrest ecosystems best option
<razzy>
so, i am testing several strains of mushooms in my small home ecosystems :]
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<freemint>
beneroth my current opinion is that climate change is largely an non issue and that there are more effective ways to reduce human suffering than investing much in climate change
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<beneroth>
freemint, so what do you invest in?
<freemint>
if i had the moneybags, i would attempt to get humanity is a productive as possible.
<beneroth>
how did you come to the conclusion that humanity is not already as productive as possible?
<freemint>
the easiest ways i heard are, giving medication to certain deadly disease which have been erridacted in the western world to hospitals in the third world .
<freemint>
solving child nutrition from age 0 to age 6
<beneroth>
btw. piracy in somalia, the arab spring events (e.g. the civil wars in Syria and Egypt) were influenced/partially triggered by a food shortage caused by drought.. increasing drought events is a likely consequence of the (more rapidly than in recent history) changing climate
<freemint>
we had droughts for ever but when we applied industrial Landwirtschaft everywhere in the world we could feed 50 billion people and that is without vertical farming.
<freemint>
ofcourse not everybody can afford western style farming yet. because it is capital expensive
<freemint>
the biggest problem is the lack of capital to invest and a lack of products to trade with the western world
<beneroth>
freemint, e.g. medication: it's not so easy. see polio, horrible disease which we made nearly extinct (thanks to vaccination), the remaining polio herds are in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Congo. 2012 it returned/spread to Syria. With a civil war going on, the logistics for the medicine are quite difficult. And especially in Afghanistan people are very weary of vaccination programs, which got recently made worse by the US. forces using a fake vaccination prog
<beneroth>
ram to gather intelligence which lead to the murder of Osama Bin Laden.
<beneroth>
everything is interlinked.
<freemint>
People do their best to make their lives more livable but when you are worrying whether you have enough money or food to come through the winter, climate change, family planning and education are non issues
<beneroth>
well we had droughts forever, but we never had such a big human population! we regularly had famines, which are in the western world a thing of the past thanks to the green revolution (kinda a 100 years ago) and globalisation.
<beneroth>
the droughts we had in whole Europe this summer would have led to famines if we would not have globalization.
<beneroth>
freemint, agreed. maslovs pyramid etc.
<freemint>
Everything is interlinked but you can use that to your advantage when doing Change for the good or you can use throw your hands in the air because their is some advertisy along your plan
<beneroth>
freemint, so maybe we should make sure no countries drop into a situation where a significant part of the population has to worry about food and basic necessities? like it just happened a few years ago in Syria, Bolivia, and even Greece? this countries were a lot more functional 10 years ago!
<freemint>
that is a very good idea
<beneroth>
it's not just "this far away countries in africa" we need to care about (and africa is a pretty diverse big continent, most common views people have over here about it are myths), we primarily also should guard and care on the regions near us!
<beneroth>
EU and Switzerland give money and arms to forces in Syria and Libya - so we're responsible too.
<beneroth>
Refugees die in the Mediterranean sea or end up in slavery in Libya (by warlords paid by EU to keep the refugees back) because our laws prevent them from using airplanes (the laws are, that the airplane companies must pay for and bring the person back if someone is immigrating by plane who ends up to be denied refugee status) and because our countries are pretty sloppy and slow with processing the refugee requests. I see no reason why refugee request could
<beneroth>
not be made and processed near the source countries. actually Switzerland had such a thing, you could make an asylum request at every Swiss embassy - this was abolished just a few years ago (one reason was, that e.g. in the embassy in Egypt the request just piled up in the cellar, not being processed really)
<beneroth>
or our countries could say we leave the contracts and abolish the laws which state that we accept people as refugees when their situation meets certain conditions. that would be honest at least.
<beneroth>
though pretty amoral. even more so when e.g. one of the biggest refugee settlements of German refugees during the World War 2 was in Syria...
<beneroth>
do we talk about this in public debate? not really.
<beneroth>
would we have 50, 70 years ago? more likely, actually, when we compare with debates and media artefacts from back then.
<beneroth>
seems the talk transcript which started todays discussion here was about right, we partially lost and are loosing a sense of human community and responsibility for the community with the current emphasis on individualism