ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Picolisp latest found at http://www.software-lab.de/down.html | check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
mathZ has joined #picolisp
mathZ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mathZ has joined #picolisp
mathZ has left #picolisp [#picolisp]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<tankf33der> picolisp on frontpage of HN
brandelune has joined #picolisp
<brandelune> It doesn't seem that OSX can easily build picolisp...
<tankf33der> but it can run on irix :)
<tankf33der> wait somebody here on channel or Regenaxer, i dont have osx
darithorn has quit [Quit: Leaving]
f8l has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
f8l has joined #picolisp
<brandelune> thanks :)
<brandelune> can't even build the emulator... :(
<tankf33der> tricky beast
<tankf33der> for the first time and logical for rest of the life
<Regenaxer> Good morning tankf33der, brandelune
<brandelune> Good morning !
<tankf33der> o/
<Regenaxer> tankf33der, thank for the HN info
<brandelune> I just come from there :)
<Regenaxer> We should really make an FAQ for OSX/Mac
<brandelune> I wanted to attempt for the nth time in 20 years to start some lisp
<Regenaxer> The question pops up every week
<brandelune> agreed.
<brandelune> is there no solution at all ?
<Regenaxer> I think Nistur was the last one here doing some emu compilation
<Regenaxer> Hmm, I lost overview ;)
<Regenaxer> pil32 does not compile due to clang
<brandelune> correct
<brandelune> but I read somewhere that installing gcc could solve that.
<Regenaxer> And pil64 neesd pos-independend binaries which are not available for x86-64
<Regenaxer> yes, I'm not sure
<Regenaxer> Lets wait until Nistur is up?
<brandelune> I tried gcc with brew but I guess I missed somethings
<brandelune> ok. I'm in gmt+9 and I'll have to leave in a few hours. but I'll check the log.
<Regenaxer> OK :)
<Regenaxer> Best would be if Apple swiched hardware to Arm64 for Macs ;)
<brandelune> :)
<brandelune> isn't it something they have in mind ?
<Regenaxer> yes, that's why I faintly hope so
<brandelune> ok, I'm off. I'll come back later.
<Regenaxer> See you :)
brandelune has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
brandelune has joined #picolisp
brandelune has quit [Client Quit]
<beneroth> tankf33der, nice! And this time there is even some picolisp discussion in the comments!
<beneroth> :D
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth! Indeed
<beneroth> "Cool I suppose but the memefied/youtuber tone of voice this landing page has is a bit of a turn off." - I tend to agree...
<beneroth> Guten Morgen Regenaxer :)
<Regenaxer> :)
<beneroth> "Clojure compiles to JVM bytecode, so it should run much much faster than an interpreted picolisp." -- hmm. depends I would guess.
<beneroth> pil should win startup time
<beneroth> "It has a small group of core users who think very differently about software. " hehe, thx
<Regenaxer> yes, and execution speed is about the same iirc
<Regenaxer> memory usage of Clojure is enormous. Grabs 600 MiB immediately
<beneroth> I would guess so too, and in that cases better abstraction probably reduces the number of non-functional wrappers to execute
<beneroth> 600 MiB is not much these days, Regenaxer. not when its common that the OS alone takes 1-2 GB.
<beneroth> but yes, the less the better. also better speed at some point because caching works faster and better, I assume
<Regenaxer> depends, ask Nistur with all his raspis and legacy machines
<beneroth> T
<Regenaxer> or on Android
<Regenaxer> 600 MiB is too much there
<beneroth> I mean from the view (as the comment was) from a guy who is used to run clojure/java enterprise backends
<beneroth> they just throw hardware at it
<Regenaxer> yes
<beneroth> sometimes economically meaningful. not good for green IT though.
<beneroth> gotta go
<beneroth> have a nice day! o/
<Regenaxer> See you! :)
<tankf33der> question
<tankf33der> Regenaxer:
<tankf33der> this is python dictionary:
<tankf33der> {'a': 5, 'y': 1, 'b': 3, 'z': 1, 'x': 1}
<tankf33der> it sorted after it by number and alphabetically:
<tankf33der> [('a', 5), ('b', 3), ('x', 1), ('y', 1), ('z', 1)]
<tankf33der> how to do it in picolisp ?
<Regenaxer> (by cdr sort '((a . 5) (b . 3) ...
<Regenaxer> ah, number and *then* alpa?
<Regenaxer> (by '((X) (cons (cdr X) (car X))) sort '((a . 5) (b . 3) ...
<tankf33der> aaaa
<tankf33der> ok
<tankf33der> knew it
<Regenaxer> :)
* Nistur was highlighted
<Nistur> hello
<Nistur> yes. 600MB just to setup is insane.
<Regenaxer> Good morning Nistur!
<Nistur> Greetings :)
mtsd has joined #picolisp
<tankf33der> (flip (by '((X) (cons (cdr X) (- 97 (char (car X))))) sort Z))
<tankf33der> Regenaxer
<Regenaxer> yes, fine
<tankf33der> i have to add (- 97 (char (car X))) to sort alphabetically too
<tankf33der> ok
<Regenaxer> hmm
<Regenaxer> but chars *are* alphabetically
<Regenaxer> And if you do calculations anyway, you don't need 'flip' if you negate
<Regenaxer> (- xxx 97)
<tankf33der> should be a b x y z
<Regenaxer> ok, then do '((X) (cons (- (cdr X)) (car X)))
<Regenaxer> decreasing numbers and increasing letters
rob_w has joined #picolisp
brandelune has joined #picolisp
<mtsd> Morning all
<Regenaxer> Hi mtsd!
<mtsd> More security problems.... not good
<mtsd> It just keeps coming, it seems
<Regenaxer> yeah, disturbing
rob_w has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<brandelune> (back for a shot while :)
<brandelune> short
<Regenaxer> good :)
<brandelune> if there is a way to build with a separate version of gcc, it would be trivial to 1) document that 2) (?) create a brew recipe with said dependency...
<Regenaxer> But it helps only for pil32 which is not very interesting
<brandelune> yes and no. I don't think Apple will dump 32 bit applications in the next iteration of osx.
<Regenaxer> I mean picolisp features
<brandelune> I see
<Regenaxer> namespaces, native and coroutines etc.
<brandelune> what about the issue with the emulation ?
<Regenaxer> I won't miss these any more
<Regenaxer> ah, ok, yes
<Regenaxer> but a bit slow
<Regenaxer> I think emu can be built with standard gcc
<Regenaxer> or even clang?
<Regenaxer> Nistur, how is the state?
<brandelune> I tried and it didn't work :(
<Regenaxer> IIRC even some years ago Jon Kleiser succeeded with emu on Mac
<brandelune> I get the exact same error as with src64
<brandelune> also, I'm not an expert at builds... I just follow instructions... :(
<Regenaxer> :)
<brandelune> the link [Or maybe you could do something like this.]
<brandelune> points to a 404
<Regenaxer> I see, these are Henrik Sarvell's pages
<brandelune> points _at_
<Regenaxer> Perhaps removed?
<brandelune> it looks like the date base hierarchy is gone
<Regenaxer> it is outside the wiki's DB
<brandelune> nothing on the nginx pages either
<brandelune> here
<brandelune> www. missing from the original link
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> perhaps nginx config changed over there
<Regenaxer> You can fix the link ;)
<brandelune> can I ?
<Regenaxer> Yes, just register and try it
<Regenaxer> via "Log in" link
<Regenaxer> it is very easy
<Regenaxer> (I believe)
<brandelune> ok
<brandelune> done
<Regenaxer> Great! Welcome new member! :)
<brandelune> :) ok, starting a 3 day vacation right now with a beer, I won't be able to do more today ;)
<Regenaxer> Nice!
<brandelune> hoping to find a solution for osx~
<Regenaxer> I still hope Nistur can bring us up to date concerning emu/Mac
<Regenaxer> yeah
<brandelune> sure !
<Regenaxer> Ah, the link is fixed. Thanks!
<brandelune> I can fix links but Ich speche kein Lisp :)
<brandelune> spreche
<brandelune> ok gone.
brandelune has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
mtsd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rob_w has joined #picolisp
orivej has joined #picolisp
libertas has joined #picolisp
Regenaxer has left #picolisp [#picolisp]
Regenaxer has joined #picolisp
mtsd has joined #picolisp
mtsd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Nistur> Regenaxer: hello?
<Nistur> Um, I have been too busy so I haven't had time to tinker with it... I got it compiling and running but some things caused it to crash... I hadn't got around to checking precisely what it was that caused the problem
<tankf33der> what code ?
<Nistur> I have the day off today, my wife had a hospital appointment and it's over already, so I get to twiddle my thumbs for the rest of the day
<Nistur> so I can have a play with it in a bit
<tankf33der> maybe this one ? :)
<Nistur> tankf33der: it was when running the tests, from memory
<tankf33der> like this?
<tankf33der> pil "@lib/test.l" +
<Nistur> yup
<Regenaxer> ret
<tankf33der> what os?
<Nistur> macOS
<tankf33der> uuuuu
<tankf33der> ok
<Nistur> pil64 emu
<tankf33der> never tried emu, maybe i can try compile it on linux and try
<Regenaxer> brandelune's question was first of all how to build emu on MacOS
<Regenaxer> But he left a while ago
<Nistur> yeah, I saw
<Nistur> sorry I wasn't around
<Regenaxer> np
<Regenaxer> Perhaps you can pastebin your make procedure, so he can check later
<tankf33der> how to compile emu on linux then ?
<Regenaxer> (cd src64; make emu)
<Nistur> Regenaxer: sure
<tankf33der> test passed.
<Regenaxer> ok
<Nistur> just finishing my lunch, then I'll set up upstairs and get my macbook out
<tankf33der> lets try openbsd
<tankf33der> passed.
vikid has joined #picolisp
<Regenaxer> Hi vikid! Its been a long time! :)
<vikid> indeed
<Regenaxer> :)
<tankf33der> solaris emu tests passed.
<Regenaxer> ok
linus` has joined #picolisp
rob_w has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Nistur> I remember now, if I run pil "@lib/test.l" + it just hangs indefinitely
<Regenaxer> Hmm, ok, you can find the place with a binary search, by commenting out first files and then parts of the file
<Nistur> yup
<Nistur> any of the (load "@test/... calls will make it hang
<Regenaxer> yes
<Nistur> I was just going through systematically commenting out calls in test.l
<Nistur> I have now put a println in the top of test/lib.l and it never prints anything
<Regenaxer> Wha a println?
<Nistur> I'm just trying to get it to do _something_ so I can move it around and see where it's hanging
<Regenaxer> If you comment all loads it should print OK
<Regenaxer> '(load ...
<Nistur> yes
<Regenaxer> Just a quote is OK
<Regenaxer> or #{ ... }#
vikid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Regenaxer> or, even easier, insert (bye)
<Nistur> I tried that
<Regenaxer> (load
<Regenaxer> (bye)
<Regenaxer> "@test/src/main.l"
<Regenaxer> "@test/s...
<Regenaxer> So it doesn't even get to the first load?
<Nistur> AHA!
<Nistur> so the first block loaded before
<Nistur> just the ones underneath that were separate I think didn't
<Nistur> but I've got it now to say
<Regenaxer> Good :)
<Nistur> [/usr/local/lib/picolisp/test/src/main.l:115] 4 -- 'test' failed
<Regenaxer> (let U (usec)
<Regenaxer> : (usec)
<Regenaxer> -> ?
<Nistur> not sure how I managed to do that... because tht wasn't causing problems before
<Regenaxer> It hung later?
<Nistur> yes
<Regenaxer> Perhaps (usec) works sometimes and sometimes not?
<Nistur> it was getting past there consistently before, and now it's consistently broken, despite nothing having changed
<Nistur> well, I added in (bye) to test/lib.l but then removed it again
<Regenaxer> strange
<Nistur> ... yes
<tankf33der> comment main
<tankf33der> rest works ?
<Nistur> ok, trying to move (bye) down the list of loads again
<Nistur> test/src/main.l completes
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<tankf33der> (bye) inside (load ...)
<tankf33der> ?
<Regenaxer> main.l without (usec) ?
<Nistur> I haven't changed any files apart from test.l right now
<Regenaxer> tankf33der, yes, why not? The args are evaluated left to right
<tankf33der> ok
<Nistur> apply.l is fine
<Nistur> so is flow.l
<Regenaxer> cool
<Nistur> sym.l is next... but I'm getting that same error in main.l now
<Nistur> ((*/ (- (usec) U) 100000))
<Nistur> let me try running again
<Regenaxer> hmm, perhaps comment out only usec for now?
<Nistur> CRAP
<Nistur> I have to pick my wife up... 15 minutes away in 2 minutes
<Nistur> back later
<Regenaxer> ok, no hurry
<Regenaxer> I must also go soon, back in an hour or so
<Regenaxer> afp
<Regenaxer> ret
orivej has joined #picolisp
pchrist has joined #picolisp
<beneroth> bbl
beneroth has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
grp has joined #picolisp
grp has quit [Quit: box shutting down...]
beneroth has joined #picolisp
alexshendi has joined #picolisp
alexshendi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]