adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Upcoming OCaml MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.03.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<t4nk770> Is this answer still valid? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30367683/ocsigen-eliom-how-to-remove-unnecessary-javascript#30372588 I tried recently to create a simple site with plain pages, no js, but I keep getting large js files. How do I avoid js?
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<orbitz> companion_cube: Anything in Containers supports O(log n) min_find and max_find? Binary search that finds the value right below or right above the search value
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<Leonidas> ok, will whitequark port solvespace to OCaml soon? *hides*
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<companion_cube> orbitz: hmmmmmm
<companion_cube> right now, no (you can do something approaching with Set, but well)
<companion_cube> it could be added to CCWBT though
<companion_cube> CCWBTree*
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<orbitz> Hrm, In my case I have an array I want to do this on. I'm implementing a simple binary search now
<companion_cube> ah, there is binary search in CCArray
<companion_cube> bsearch
<orbitz> But does it have min_find and max_find semantics?
<companion_cube> look at the signature
<orbitz> It's in CCArray? I don't see it in the link to the "current documentation"
<orbitz> Ah nevermind
<orbitz> I had to go ingo the .S
<orbitz> Nice, I think that will do what I want, thanks.
<companion_cube> ah, yeah, the display of `include S` in ocamldoc is not very good
<orbitz> Yeah, I knew that too I was just being dumb. Brain fart. I'm going to try this now, thanks companion_cube
<companion_cube> no problem
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<orbitz> I wish we and Ord in Ocaml
<companion_cube> heh…
<companion_cube> and Print
<orbitz> Yeah, Ord and Show are probably the only reason I wish we had type classes :)
<companion_cube> and Eq, but it's Ord indeed
<companion_cube> well then, Applicative, Monad, would also be nice
<orbitz> Yeah, they just grow in diesre from there
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<orbitz> I've been usign merlin more and mor eas well. It's pretty pleasant. Not as annoying is the java IDE's I've used.
<TKDE-Lobby> i hate java
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<orbitz> I'm not a fan of it either. IN this case I'm just talking about the IDE experience, though.
<companion_cube> java IDEs are nice, as far as I can tell
<companion_cube> merlin is pretty nice, too
<companion_cube> it still lacks something to look up functions by type ^^
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<TKDE-Lobby> orbitz, yes, i know you were talking about ide experience
<TKDE-Lobby> i just felt the urge to express my disgust towards java
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<orbitz> companion_cube: the main one I use feels pretty intrusive. It's always telling me I'm wrong even though I'm not done expressing my thought.
<companion_cube> huhu ^^
<orbitz> Like those email web forms that tell you you haven't entered a valid email when you've just started typing :)
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<ggole_> Hmm, the ICFP videos look interesting.
<orbitz> ggole_: anything in particular that caught your eye?
<ggole_> The compilation and IL stuff, lock free programming, and generic programming talks in particular
<ggole_> I haven't watched any yet though
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<orbitz> companion_cube: what about zipping lists?
<companion_cube> how do you mean?
<companion_cube> there's even a standard function for that
<companion_cube> List.combine, I think
<orbitz> Ahh, unfamiliar name.
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<companion_cube> we really need a better search-by-type
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<kakadu> new version alpha5 of opam is great. I can't install any package now.
<kakadu> Can you please try it for yourself? I want you toi be as happy as I am
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<companion_cube> no thanks :p
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<kakadu> finally Workarounded
* kakadu feels like a hacker
<for{}> kakadu, are u romanian?
<kakadu> no
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<alexelcu> Hello, I'm getting started with OCaml and one odd thing is that this "Setup … with Oasis" document claims I should be getting a Makefile after "oasis setup", but I get no Makefile: https://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/setting_up_with_oasis.html#Anexecutable
<alexelcu> oh, I was missing the Plugins line, never mind
<alexelcu> I now got it
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<alexelcu> So my current tools setup involves (on OS X) installing ocaml and opam by homebrew, then oasis and utop by opan, plus tuareg, merlin and ocp-indent as Emacs packages through it's own package manager (although I'm not sure if I have this ocp-indent thing configured/running); is this a good setup?
<Drup> don't install anything through emacs' package manager, use opam for all of them
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<kakadu> Folks, it seems that -pp option overrides previous one. Am I right?
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<octachron> kakadu: yes
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<orbitz> alexelcu: I don't use oasis but many people seem to be ok with it. BUt the rest of your setup I use.
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<Algebr`> anyone have an OCaml friend in Istanbul/Turkey?
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<Algebr`> or any kind of functional programmer
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<alexelcu> orbitz: thanks; but what do you use for managing the build of your project? I basically want something like Maven and saw that oasis is similar.
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<alexelcu> Drup: any reason for why opam should be preferable versus installing those packages from Emacs' Melpa repository?
<Drup> because it's more uptodate and will play better with opam's switches
<Algebr`> alexelcu: probably because opam is better maintained by ocaml devs
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<Armael> does the melpa package even install the runtime (like the ocamlmerlin binary for merlin) part, or just the emacs mode?
<rks`> option 2 IIRC
<Armael> ok so it wouldn't work as is, you'd have to install merlin&co using opam anyway
<alexelcu> well, opam it is then :)
<orbitz> alexelcu: I use something called pds (it's in opam). It just turns a toml file into makefiles
<Drup> in_tree build ? :x
<orbitz> Drup: hrm, was that ot me?
<Drup> well, to pds
<orbitz> Drup: it scans for .ml and .mli files and builds them in the correct order (ish) and all that. It's not super sophisticated and has some rough edges. I use pds mainly because it's toml which is easily consumable by other tools
<Drup> (never heard of that one ... yay, yet another one)
<orbitz> :)
<orbitz> So with a pds config file you can use another program called hll that produces opam files.
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<orbifx-m> I thought I was writing for a moment there lol
<alexelcu> My main concern is that I've got an Emacs that auto-installs everything needed on first run, but managed to use opam by simply triggering shell commands (I really have to learn elisp one of these days): https://gist.github.com/alexandru/9426da32ef7b0f164d308b78f1c23585
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<Drup> calling opam install in the emacs init ? erg
<Drup> alexelcu: remove that bit and use "opam user-setup", it should setup your emacs automatically
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<alexelcu> oh, nice
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<sgronblo> could someone tell me if this is a good way to write a simple Lwt-based TCP server using OCaml http://baturin.org/code/lwt-counter-server/
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<Algebr`> its a nice start
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<alexelcu> Drup: thanks for the tip!
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<sgronblo> Algebr`: any problems you can foresee?
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<aantron> sgronblo: the code makes no effort to close sockets
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<aantron> there is also Lwt_io.establish_server as a convenience, though that api will be updated soon (see https://github.com/ocsigen/lwt/issues/260)
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<for{}> what is ocaml best at?
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<for{}> and is it the best tool for that specific thing?
<for{}> or it excels where other languages are even better?
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<companion_cube> it's very good for symbolic stuff, like compilers, theorem provers, etc. but it's also good for safe system programming (networking, unikernels, etc.)
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<companion_cube> I'd say it's meh for numeric computations :)
<for{}> companion_cube, would it lose against haskell?
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<for{}> i mean speed, maintainability etc
<for{}> memory usage and so on
<for{}> what are the trade offs?
<benmachine> Haskell's optimizer is probably more sophisticated, but laziness is more unpredictable
<benmachine> so there's probably not a consistent winner there
<Drup> on that point, the big advantage of OCaml is that the "pretty" code, that you tend to write naturally, is already quite efficient
<benmachine> my personal opinion is that I don't know who I back on haskell vs. ocaml, but both are leagues ahead of most other modern languages :P
<for{}> is ocaml here to stay?
<companion_cube> well it's been here for a while, so I'd say yes :p
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<sgronblo> aantron: Is establish_server for TCP connections only?
<aantron> yes, it is
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<sgronblo> aantron: there is no UDP version?
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<aantron> i don't believe so
<aantron> it may be possible to use establish_server with protocols other than TCP if you pass in a file descriptor, but i guess not UDP, because establish_server calls listen, accept, etc. iirc you don't use any of those with datagram sockets
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<sgronblo> aantron: oh really, i thought you still had to do all that crap even with UDP sockets
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<aantron> iirc you just call bind and recvfrom, but it has been a while for me and UDP, so don't take my word for it :)
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<sgronblo> I have never really worked much with plain sockets. Just some basic exercises at uni.
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<sgronblo> so humm, this seems to explain why you get a new socket when you use TCP
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<haesbaert> what's the common way to do an intersection of two lists ?
<Drup> haesbaert: the good way is to use sets :D
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<haesbaert> hmmm
<haesbaert> Set.of_list and so on ?
<haesbaert> hmm kinda depressing to have to define a module for that
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<sgronblo> I cant figure out how OCaml determines module names based on file names. Should I use udp_server.ml or udpServer.ml to get UdpServer?
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<reynir> The latter
<haesbaert> udp_server.ml -> Udp_server.something
<octachron> sgronblo: only the first letter is capitalized
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<haesbaert> I think using _ is more common these days btw.
<reynir> haesbaert: you can do »List.filter (fun x -> List.mem x ys) xs« as a quick hack I guess
<haesbaert> hmm yeah, I'll think about it, I have like 3 usages
<haesbaert> maybe i should use set anyway
<sgronblo> really? it looks kinda ugly to me. oh well...
<haesbaert> I can't read camel case, but that's me
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<octachron> haesbaert: another hack, if you really don't want to define a module, you can use List.sort and define an intersect function on sorted lists
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<haesbaert> octachron: true, but I need to preserve order actually
<reynir> Are you working on awa btw? :)
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<haesbaert> yeah :D, need to get the intersection of the kex algorithms
<haesbaert> btw, openssh code is _so_ good.
<reynir> Nice! I'm excited about that ^^
<Drup> awa ?
<Drup> kex ?
<Drup> those name are so evocative x)
<haesbaert> Drup: github.com/haesbaert/awa-ssh
<haesbaert> kex -> key exchange :D
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<reynir> I think kex means biscuit/cookie/cracker in swedish
<reynir> (100% unrelated)
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<haesbaert> ah ok sets are cool
<eni> how do i load a module in a .ml file?
<haesbaert> SS.inter (SS.of_list us) (SS.of_list them) |> SS.elements
<eni> load "str.cma" doesn't seem to work
<rgrinberg> Drup: could you make a tyre release?
<eni> open Str neither
<Drup> rgrinberg: I wanted to figure out the right semantics for gen_all before next version
<Drup> but I guess I should yeah
<eni> Error: Reference to undefined global `Str'
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<rgrinberg> Drup: thanks. I'll try and think about gen_all as well
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<octachron> eni: does 'load "str.cma"' give you any error message?
<eni> unbound value load
<Drup> eni: it's #load, with a sharp
<eni> i'm not on toplevel
<eni> i'm trying to run a .ml file using ocaml
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<Drup> then you just provide str.cma on the command line
<eni> oh my bad then
<eni> # load works
<eni> sorry :)
<eni> and thanks
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<eni> can you match al, bl with ha::ta, hb::tb => ?
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<rgrinberg> you should just use #require "str";; fyi
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<haesbaert> hmm set intersection orders it....
<haesbaert> i need something slightly different
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<eni> rgrinberg: ok thanks
<rgrinberg> load also works, but just using the findlib directive is more consistent
<eni> what's the difference between open Str, load 'str.cma' and #require 'str'
<rgrinberg> open Str is part of the language, all it does is making the bindings in Str available in your current scope.
<rgrinberg> #load "x.cma" is a toplevel directive that loads a particular object file found in the include path
<rgrinberg> #require is a findlib directive. it will load a findlib library and all of its dependencies
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<sgronblo> So I was considering this kind of an API for my start_server function: val start_server : ('a, 'b) t -> (() -> ()) Lwt.t does it make sense? It would return a close function inside of an Lwt.
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<for{}> is ocaml faster than go?
<libertas> To output to the interactive console (debug) the parameters of a function, how can I print those? Tried: open Printf (before function), then Printf.printf "string..." just below the `let rec func...`, but returns error
<Drup> sgronblo: it should rather be `unit -> unit Lwt.t`
<sgronblo> Drup: oh right, it was unit in OCaml. Thanks. Otherwise it makes sense though?
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<Drup> yes, but the Lwt.t is only on the last bit
<sgronblo> Well I guess it could be (unit -> unit Lwt.t) Lwt.t
<sgronblo> or should be
<sgronblo> since the closing would be async as well
<sgronblo> is that what you were referring to?
<Drup> sgronblo: except it's not useful, you can transform any (unit -> unit) Lwt.t into unit -> unit Lwt.t
<Drup> and the second is nicer to use
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<sgronblo> yeah but i put an extra Lwt.t in there
<sgronblo> so both starting and stopping would be async funcs
<Drup> my remark is still valid :p
<sgronblo> I'm confused now. This is how I changed it: val start_server : ('a, 'b) t -> (unit -> unit Lwt.t) Lwt.t
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<sgronblo> Is this not ok?
<Drup> If you really want to use the outer Lwt.t to now when the server has started, you can do that
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<Drup> my remark was that you can turn any ` (unit -> unit Lwt.t) Lwt.t` into `unit -> unit Lwt.t` fairly easily, and that's nicer to use
<sgronblo> Drup: I thought the server might want to log something on start up eventually which would make it async
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<sgronblo> Drup: I'm not sure I follow, are you really saying both of those basically mean the same thing? Or that it would be nicer to make the startup be synchronous?
<for{}> is merlin better than vscode?
<Drup> sgronblo: consider this function: let f g x = g >>= fun f -> f x
<sgronblo> Havent tried vscode, think merlin is pretty good so far.
<Drup> for{}: pretty sure the vscode plugin uses merlin
<for{}> so merlin?
<Drup> merlin is editor-agnostic, each editor will use merlin via a plugin
<Drup> it's not "better", you should use both :D
<for{}> ok, got it, thanks
<for{}> i thought merlin was an aditor
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<Algebr`> vscode is an entire IDE, merlin just provides code completion
<sgronblo> vscode is not the full IDE one
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<sgronblo> its more like sublime or atom, lightweight IDe maybe
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<for{}> i use vscode mainly because is loaded faster and uses json as config language
<sgronblo> Drup: thats a bit dense. could you be a bit more specific about what to consider there?
<reynir> hmm, faster than what?
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<for{}> reynir, than atom
<reynir> Ah :-)
<sgronblo> Drup: To me it seems like I lose information if I flatten a structure like ('a Lwt.t) Lwt.t to just an 'a Lwt.t?
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<reynir> Shouldn't it return something else?
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<benmachine> sgronblo: though I am late to the conversation I agree with you, 'a t t is usually a more expressive type than 'a t
<benmachine> I've not used lwt so I'm not confident of the semantics of Lwt.t, but if they are what I think then (unit -> unit Lwt.t) Lwt.t is definitely capable of more htan unit -> unit Lwt.t
<benmachine> it says something like "later I will finish doing something, and when I've done so you can have a function"
<benmachine> probably that function only makes sense to call after the something has finished
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<jteg> who
<reynir> what
<companion_cube> where
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<reynir> :)
<Drup> M moutard, with the revolver, in the kitchen
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<apache2> I'm getting syntax errors with `begin lwt_match ... with ... end`
<apache2> do I need to have a lwt.syntax in my _tags or something like that?
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<reynir> Yea, something like that. It's a camlp4 syntax I think. There's also a ppx, lwt.ppx, which I know work if you add it to _tags. Then it'd be begin match%lwt ... with ... end
<apache2> ah thanks!
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<apache2> reynir: hmm the match%lwt seems to be doing something weird, would that just be `begin match%lwt Lwt.something () with foo -> foo end` ?
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<apache2> nvm, I'm stupid
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<reynir> did you figure it out? :)
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<apache2> reynir: yes! thanks!
<apache2> Warning 18: this type-based field disambiguation is not principal.
<apache2> new warning :)
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<apache2> do I need to wrap libc functions myself if I want to use Unix.lseek on a file > 2gb on 32bit?
<apache2> any particular reason it doesn't take a 63-bit int64?
<flux> apache2, Unix.LargeFile?
<apache2> 64bit int64*
<apache2> flux: ah nice!
<apache2> thank you!
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<orbifx> what's the perception of ocamlnet?
<orbifx> strikes me ous outdated
<orbifx> is it?
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<apache2> I think so
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