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<Drup>
whitequark: this kaleidoscope is really ugly
<Drup>
not only the fact that it uses camlp4, but how it's designed
<Drup>
you have token streams everywhere, including to drive the "toplevel"
<Drup>
not pretty >o<
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<Drup>
ping AltGr
<Drup>
isn't ocp-indent supposed to support .mly ?
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<AltGr>
Drup, partly
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<AltGr>
main issue is that it's not compatible with .ml, e.g. '*' can end an expression in regexp definitions
<Drup>
well, you lack a regression test then, because the current version is completly broken on | ... |
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<Drup>
AltGr: is there a simple way to just disable ocp-indent on .mly ?
<Drup>
(on emacs)
<AltGr>
not atm I'm afraid, but feel free to improve the .el !
<Drup>
;_;
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<Drup>
AltGr: Is there a way to disable ocp-indent, at least ? x)
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<AltGr>
ah, sorry, I thought you meant .mll ; not much support on .mly. It would need a whole layer to properly handle files with different sections containing different syntaxes...
<whitequark>
well, why do you test your package on 4.01 if it doesn't work on 4.01?
<Leonidas>
and then the build obviously failed with a stupid error message
<whitequark>
that's absurd.
<Leonidas>
whitequark: still, a version constraint might be useful. but neither escaping nor putting "lwt>=2.4.6" works.
<whitequark>
I think you can't specify those on the command line.
<whitequark>
I also can't see why you would want to.
<Leonidas>
to be sure I get a compatible version and not an old version by some mistake (if something is broken in opam and forces an older version of Lwt for example)
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<Leonidas>
for core you often get a completely random version, because core is terrible
<whitequark>
seriously, just pin your package
<whitequark>
then either install it, or install it with --deps-only
<Leonidas>
whitequark is right about pinning, but I'd like to know why my approach doesn't work. Call it curiousity.
<whitequark>
you got quoting wrong
<whitequark>
I think if you remove all ", it will work
<Leonidas>
I just realized it worked on OPAM 1.2
<Leonidas>
(the version without the ", which I already tried before)
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<AltGr>
[ERROR] No package named "cohttp found.
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<AltGr>
that's a quoting error, you're asking for a package named quote-cohttp
<AltGr>
(which is actually a valid name, hmm)
<whitequark>
brb submitting to opam-repository
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<Unhammer>
Drup, I notice in ocsigen I can e.g. create a "post_form ~service:new_acct_service" where new_acct_service is created, but not registered; does that have any use? (Or is it just hard to flag that as an error on compilation?)
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<companion_cube>
whitequark: thanks for the merge!
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<flux>
I wonder if the recent .NET open sourcing (MIT) announcement means more competition to OCaml from the F# front :)
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<ygrek>
I wonder can merlin look for cmt files in `ocamlfind query ` locations from .merlin ?
<flux>
hmm, doesn't it do that with the PKG definition?
<flux>
I mean, it does use findlib for it, why not for those files then :)
<flux>
I haven't tried it, though. I have very few .cmt files around.
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<ygrek>
I thought so, but doesn's seem to work
<ygrek>
will try more
<whitequark>
does merlin even use cmt?
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<ygrek>
for Locate - no ?
<ygrek>
jump-to-definition I mean
<ygrek>
I wonder whether it can do so across diferent projects
<ygrek>
it looks for cmt file definitely
<Unhammer>
merlin can jump to stuff in ~/.opam if you have bin-annot and S/B settings
<ygrek>
and it finds it actually
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<Unhammer>
so in that sense at least it works
<sinelaw>
Hi. I'm new to ocaml. Why doesn't the following compile?
<sinelaw>
let x (f : 'a -> 'a) = ref f ;;
<sinelaw>
let setX v = x := v ;;
<ygrek>
but it still says : seems to originate from 'Control' which could not be found
<ygrek>
Unhammer, S/B ?
<ygrek>
I have B in all projects
<ygrek>
do I need S for this also?
<sinelaw>
oops. never mind.
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<sinelaw>
x wasn't supposed to be a function.
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<Unhammer>
PKG pcre
<Unhammer>
S /home/me/.opam/4.02.1/build/pcre-ocaml.7.1.2/_build
<Unhammer>
B /home/me/.opam/4.02.1/build/pcre-ocaml.7.1.2/_build
<ygrek>
aha, then it tries to locate it in current directory
<ygrek>
Unhammer, that's not what I have in mind definitely %)
<ygrek>
absolute paths??
<Unhammer>
well, relative works as well
<Unhammer>
that's just what I have for opam stuff
<Unhammer>
for my actual project I use
<Unhammer>
S .
<Unhammer>
B _build/
<ygrek>
still I do not get it
<ygrek>
how it will find the source directory of installed lib
<ygrek>
I see that it reads correct cmt in .opam
<ygrek>
and then it tries to open .ml file in the current project directory, not in the lib's source
<ygrek>
cmt has the path to source original directory
<ygrek>
so it could jump there
<ygrek>
looks like a bug to me
<Unhammer>
I think I actually wrote how to do this on the wiki …
<Drup>
Eliom contains a GUI framework based on frp :]
<whitequark>
browser is a shitty UI framework.
<Leonidas>
HTML GUI, I suppose?
<Drup>
whitequark: depends
<whitequark>
Drup: open twitter
<whitequark>
try to scroll below 300th tweet
<MercurialAlchemi>
looking at the release notes for the new version of F#, I'm jealous that F# gets to have constructors that behave as functions, while OCaml gets no constructor at all
<whitequark>
on my ridiculously overpowered i7, a redraw takes 300-500ms after that
<Leonidas>
MercurialAlchemi: Haskell has constructor functions too.
<MercurialAlchemi>
Leonidas: I know
<arj>
Leonidas: no, real GUI
<kakadu_>
There some examples about QtQuick but I'm not going to talk about it because it's a dinner time
<arj>
Kakadu_: is it stable? last time a checked it was rather new and incomplete.
<Leonidas>
arj: lablgtk-react is a real GUI. By adrien.
<MercurialAlchemi>
IMHO, it both increases readability and avoids (fun ... -> )-boilerplate
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: every body agree on it, except the Core team, mostly.
<Leonidas>
MercurialAlchemi: yep, I hope ocaml will adopt this too.
<Leonidas>
Drup: Core as in JaneStreet or Core as in INRIA?
<Drup>
whitequark: you should know by now that taking a particular example is not really good to demonstrate your point about some building block being shitty.
<arj>
Leonidas: it seems not to be very mature and rather small? If I understand correctly, it is built on lablgtk.
<kakadu_>
It can't be stable because nobody uses it because nobody uses it (because QtQuick is too different from other approaches)
<Drup>
Leonidas: the later
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Leonidas: this was my question too :)
<Drup>
whitequark: of course html is shitty
<whitequark>
Drup: it was a mere illustration
<MercurialAlchemi>
ocaml is already multi-core :D
<Leonidas>
arj: yes, but lablgtk is stable and you can extend lablgtk-react
<arj>
ok, then I might give this one a shot. Thanks!
<Leonidas>
pretty sure adrien takes pull requests or something.
<Drup>
whitequark: concerning twitter, I don't know how much their stuff is optimized, so hard to answer.
<whitequark>
Drup: a $27B company generally tries at least a little to keep their main UI quick
<Drup>
I have (numerous) counter examples to this argument.
<MercurialAlchemi>
It's possible to make fast, reactive UIs in HTML
<whitequark>
the fact that DOM is a very inefficient way to build UIs is well-known
<Drup>
whitequark: I agree
<MercurialAlchemi>
but it's a pain
<whitequark>
until recently it was also an incredible pain in the ass to style, but that changed somewhat with CSS3 and flexbox
<Drup>
which is badly supported :<
<whitequark>
of course, what do you expect?
<MercurialAlchemi>
whitequark: it wasn't so much the styling as the layout, I'd say
<Drup>
whitequark: about html, my point was more related to how you program it
<whitequark>
right, layout is the right term here
<Drup>
Defining a GUI in eliom is relatively pleasant, it's quite declarative
<MercurialAlchemi>
(which is quite ridiculous when you consider that you've add decent ways of placing widgets on a screen in various toolkits since forever without resorting to obscure div tricks to get a fucking three column layout working)
<MercurialAlchemi>
"you've had"
<Drup>
at least more pleasant than the bit I did with lablgtk
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: if we start counting the error in javascript's design that were solved at the time, we're going to be here for a while
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: that's a CSS issue, not Javascript
<Drup>
The dom part is equally horrible, and it's javascript
<MercurialAlchemi>
Javascript...
<MercurialAlchemi>
Well, a part of me likes it because it's conceptually simple
<Drup>
except the late binding semantic
<Drup>
and the scoping rules
<MercurialAlchemi>
but it has a large number of built-in abominations
<Drup>
and the truth values
<MercurialAlchemi>
"this"
<Drup>
(I like to point objections to people saying "this is conceptually simple")
<MercurialAlchemi>
but, well, I usually manage to not shoot myself in the foot with it
<Drup>
(especially when it's part of the triplet {C; Javascript; Python})
<MercurialAlchemi>
or at least I still have most of my toes
<MercurialAlchemi>
(that said I don't understand why people would want to build non-toy applications in NodeJS)
<Drup>
:D
<MercurialAlchemi>
(of course you could theoretically write your NodeJS apps in OCaml and use js_of_ocaml to run it on V8
<Drup>
I know someone who did
<ousado>
indeed
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<Drup>
with webkit for the GUI part
<ousado>
writing JS directly is the issue, not the runtime in itself
<MercurialAlchemi>
uh, nodejs+webkit?
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<Drup>
yes
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I guess reality is stranger than fiction
<Drup>
"enable a new way of writing applications with all Web technologies." this makes me so sad :(
<Drup>
ousado: hum, there are lot's of issues with the runtime too, javascript is a bad assembly.
<Drup>
it's too weakly typed and not regular enough
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<ousado>
I agree, but the existence of transpilers that shield the developer from those issues can make nodejs a viable option
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<ousado>
the nodejs APIs in part still require quite sophisticated mechanisms to make them non-horrible, however
<ousado>
but if I wanted to write e.g. an application with support for voice and maybe video chat in, say 2 month, what would be the less horrible alternative to node webkit?
<ousado>
*months
<whitequark>
... qt?
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<ousado>
whitequark: and what's the QT equivalent to the WebRTC API?
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<whitequark>
I dunno
<whitequark>
but what I can say as a user is that webrtc doesn't work.
<whitequark>
it literally never worked for me, on any combination of browsers, OSes and networks that I tried.
<whitequark>
"doesn't work" = doesn't establish a connection, establishes but lags by seconds, establishes without lag but speech is garbled, establishes but echo makes it impossible to hear anyone
<whitequark>
so it doesn't really matter.
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<ousado>
hm
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<whitequark>
nevertheless, Qt provides a standard API for audio/video recording, and as for networks, you'll have to figure something out yourself
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<whitequark>
there isn't an universal solution anyway
<whitequark>
it was quite hilarious, I had an interview with a company that writes code for browsers for a living, and we tried a bunch of browsers to conduct it, and none of them worked
<ousado>
when was that?
<MercurialAlchemi>
hahaha
<whitequark>
one or two weeks ago
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<MercurialAlchemi>
so you reverted to pidgeon RTC in the end?
<whitequark>
we did it via SkypeOut from their side, and a PSTN to SIP gateway from my side
<ousado>
hm, I kind of refuse to think that WebRTC is conceptually impossible
<whitequark>
absurdly contrived, but at last it worked.
<whitequark>
ousado: it is conceptually possible.
<whitequark>
it's just very, very immature, and relying on it is impossible
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I had a similar experience recently
<whitequark>
MercurialAlchemi: mind you, we tried just Skype (it broke) and plain PSTN wouldn't support conferences
<MercurialAlchemi>
company put out an internally-developped communication app relying on web RTC
<whitequark>
and I have no cellular coverage or landline, so just PSTN is not an option too
<whitequark>
it's amazing how fucked software is
<whitequark>
we went from "at least we can make phone calls" to "haha, jokes on you for expecting anything whatsoever to work"
<whitequark>
well, IRC works, I guess
<MercurialAlchemi>
never managed to get the web RTC part working
<MercurialAlchemi>
yep
<adrien>
it also still needs a server
<adrien>
quite sucks
<whitequark>
adrien: NATs mandate a server, somehow, somewhere.
<whitequark>
until we all migrate to IPv6 (i.e. never), a server is required.
<MercurialAlchemi>
I backup my stuff on nsa.gov so I don't care :D
<whitequark>
no, the actual traffic is p2p
<whitequark>
but you need a server for coordination and control channels
<whitequark>
MercurialAlchemi: good luck restoring from that backup
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah, I knew there was a fault in my plan somewhere
* whitequark
actually did a practice restoration for his server recently!
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<MercurialAlchemi>
:)
<flux>
"practice"
<whitequark>
hm?
<flux>
oh, you really meant it ;)
<whitequark>
um, yeah? to verify that I can actually decrypt the backups and such
<flux>
I've only done 'actual' restoration to my workstation..
<whitequark>
for workstation, I have an anacron setup that rsyncs everything not on github to the server...
<whitequark>
... which will backup that to Amazon Glacier in turn, overnight.
<whitequark>
takes care of data, but not desktop config, which is kinda annoying
<adrien>
whitequark: yeah but for webrtc it's still heavily centralized
<whitequark>
on the plus side, the rsync job is so tiny, it will even work over meager 3G connections, in case I'm stuck in some hole
<adrien>
could be a bit better
<whitequark>
adrien: I'm not sure how
<adrien>
at least P2P phonebook
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<whitequark>
phonebook?..
<adrien>
how to reach someone
<adrien>
but you don't need a _server_
<adrien>
you need a machine outside the NAT
<whitequark>
sounds like you want webrtc without the 'web' pat
<whitequark>
*part
<ousado>
apropos rsync, the patents expire next year
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<hugomg>
I have a stupid question about modules: I have two modules, main.ml and myType.ml, with Main depending on MyType. When I use corebuild to build main.byte it works but when I try to run Main in the REPL it doesnt: If I do `#use "Main.ml"` from within utop it complains that it doesn't know what the MyType module is, and the only way I managed to get it to work was by doing `#mod_use "myType.ml"` by hand.
<mrvn>
And the question is?
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<hugomg>
the question is if there is a way to load Main in the REPL and have its dependencies be loaded automatically
<hugomg>
or at least have a way to load the MyType dependency without using #mod_use - that looks like an ugly hack to me
<nojb>
hugomg: add the _build directory to the path by doing #directory “_build”
<nojb>
and then load your modules with #load_rec “main.cmo”
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<hugomg>
thanks, nojb. Is it OK if I put that "#directory _build" in my .ocamlinit?
<nojb>
yes
<ggole>
hugomg: it might be easier to use a build system to construct a toplevel containing all the stuff you want
<ggole>
ocamlbuild has some toplevel support
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<hugomg>
ggole: how do you compile a custom toplevel w/ ocamlbuild? The only thing I could find is that it has a "-ocamlmktop <command>" flag but I have no idea what I would have to pass there.
<flux>
(it does make some use of templates, though)
<Denommus>
Eliom is nice
<Drup>
flux: you know spoc ?
<Denommus>
I was trying something similar-ish in Haskell with Yesod and GHCJS, but... Eliom is already there!
<Drup>
there is shade in haskell, trying to do that
<Drup>
hum, no, not shade
<Drup>
Haste !
<Denommus>
Drup: yes, but Haste does not support GHC fully :-/
<Drup>
indeed, and it's not as developed as Eliom
<flux>
drup, yes. I don't think it's quite the same, though.
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<Drup>
flux: I think I would rather make a crossover spoc+parmap, it would be funnier
<flux>
..
<Drup>
? ^^'
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<struk_at_work>
when opam is a pinned to local repo, it is assured to use the "opam" config file of that repo when invoking opam install ?
<Drup>
yes
<Drup>
(there were bugs in 1.1, but I haven't noticed any in 1.2)
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<struk_at_work>
Drup: it seems to be ignoring my config file. hrmph. maybe I should just re-read the opam docs a bit
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<struk_at_work>
using 1.2
<Drup>
you did "opam pin add foo /path/to/foo"
<Drup>
and there is a file "/path/to/foo/opam"
<Drup>
?
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<struk_at_work>
Drup, no the file is nested down several directories from the project root
<Drup>
put it in the root :)
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<struk_at_work>
Drup: I wasn't the original author of the project. don't know why they put it in a nested folder..
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<travisbrady>
Anyone know how I might share a read-only hash table among many ocaml processes?
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<struk_at_work>
Drup: works now, thanks. I noticed if doesn't like if I add "-k git". Maybe because I didn't commit/push opam location change first..
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<Denommus>
does Eliom come with React?
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<Drup>
react is a dependency so, yes, sort of
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<Unhammer>
is there a syntax-less way to say %some_server_function in eliom? (can't figure out how to put it in client.ml instead of myproject.eliom without camlp4 complaining)
<Drup>
not directly, but server functions are just shortcut for an OCaml service, so you can define it like that instead, not sure if helping, in this case.
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<Unhammer>
should probably do that then, just haven't quite wrapped my head around it all :)
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<Drup>
you will still need to pass the name of the service to the client side in fact, so it's not going to help
<Drup>
client-server stuff needs to be in .eliom files, I'm afraid :)
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<Unhammer>
aha
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<Unhammer>
can .ml files depend on .eliom files?
<Unhammer>
last desparate attempt at using merlin heh
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<Drup>
yes
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<struk_at_work>
Drup: so what are you doing w/llvm ? Just curious..
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<Drup>
now, mostly having fun
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Is there a way to include the signature of a module inside another
<Drup>
include ?
<MercurialAlchemi>
ya
<nojb>
MercurialAlchemi: include :)
<Drup>
yeah, that was not obvious, "include" is the answer =')
<MercurialAlchemi>
hmm
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<MercurialAlchemi>
it complains that the module I include is unbound (it's in another .ml), but it's happy enough if I simply open it in the mli
<Drup>
if it's a module (and not a signature) you need "include module type of ..."
<MercurialAlchemi>
fantastic
<MercurialAlchemi>
thanks
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<Drup>
whitequark: what is your way to make sedlex work with menhir ? I'm trying to come up with the simplest one for the llvm tutorial
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<companion_cube>
hmmm, a constructor_as_function ppx_deriving would be most welcome
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<Drup>
it wouldn't be less verbose than doing the function
<Drup>
at least not a lot
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<companion_cube>
it would avoid defining the functions by hand
<companion_cube>
if you have 10 cases...
<Drup>
put parantheses, you don't have 10 cases anymore
<Drup>
oh, you mean, creating a bunch of functions ?
<Drup>
I though "locally, use this constructor as a function"
<companion_cube>
yes, create a bunch of functions
<companion_cube>
like the rest of deriving does
<companion_cube>
would go with defining record accessors of course