adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org and http://caml.inria.fr | http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.0.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Drup> you did say "deployment of an ocaml-sourced cloud" :p
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<rand000> yes I did :p just brainstorming
<rand000> do you think such an inter-pkgmngr api would be complex to do?
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<rand000> not the api maybe.. I guess I mean the actual implementation of the communication
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<natrium1970> I just upgraded the system compiler to 4.02.1, and I’m having problems with opam. For example, “opam install type_conv” gives these errors: http://pastebin.com/wFfTLVPA
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<whitequark> try `opam install camlp4`
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<natrium1970> “Package camlp4 is already installed (current version is 4.02.1+system).”
<natrium1970> I also tried removing camlp4 and reinstalling it, and I get the same error again.
<whitequark> I see
<whitequark> OS X, right? it seems like a bug
<natrium1970> Yes.
<natrium1970> But I might have just messed up opam’s database, too.
<natrium1970> To be honest, all I really wanted was to be able to generate the documentation for opam packages.
<whitequark> I don't think opamdoc works right now
<natrium1970> So the whole mess started when I tried to install opam-doc. That generated complaints about the version number of the system.
<natrium1970> Oh. Someone should put “Out Of Order” signs on these things.
<natrium1970> I think I’m going to end up nuking ~/.opam and started over.
<natrium1970> type_conv seems to be borken.
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<natrium1970> I deleted .opam and started over, and installing type_conv still fails.
<whitequark> it's not type_conv, it's the camlp4 opam package
<whitequark> use ocaml from opam for now. opam switch 4.02.1
<natrium1970> That’s the same version that is installed as the system compiler, though.
<whitequark> yes.
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<ggole> Mutate objects, acquire hash table breakage.
<ggole> :(
<whitequark> serves you right
<ggole> The mutation is actually OK if you go by my equality predicate (which mostly looks at identity).
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<ggole> But of course I cheaped out and used Hashtbl.hash. A richly deserved footgun there.
<whitequark> unrelated; I've just rewritten the OCaml LLVM bindings buildsystem in cmake and accidentally made it better, it seems
<whitequark> you know dll*.so things, right?
<ggole> Me?
<whitequark> so, I just used ocamlmklib, which compiled the corresponding parts of LLVM inside each dll*.so
<whitequark> it turned out to be merely 50 extra megabytes (for only X86 target), distributed over several .so files
<whitequark> so static builds can actually still work at toplevel, huh
<ggole> cmake O_O
<tizoc> is opam-doc the best way to get opam to generate documentation for installed packages?
<whitequark> ggole: I hate cmake.
<gasche> tizoc: opam-doc hasn't been released yet
<ggole> whitequark: of course. It's a build system.
<whitequark> cmake is the buildsystem that makes autoconf seem straightforward, easy to use and well-documented.
<whitequark> I'm not exaggerating.
<whitequark> I would take debugging m4 over using cmake at any time of day.
<ggole> It's an immutable law that build systems spread confusion and suffering.
<whitequark> it's impressive that someone actually made a buildsystem worse than autoconf
<gasche> reynir: yes
<gasche> if you find a small discrepancy with 1.2, send a pull request
<gasche> but the packaging language hasn't changed much since last august
<whitequark> I have not thought that it was possible.
<Drup> reynir, gasche : no it's not, http://opam.ocaml.org/doc/Packaging.html
<Drup> AltGr said the wiki is deprecated and will be terminated soon~ish
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<reynir> OK thanks
<reynir> I'm not really sure what to put in the META file
<Drup> which build system are you using ?
<reynir> ocamlbuild
<Drup> bare ocamlbuild, right
<Drup> I don't know if we have nice tutorial for META files
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<ysz_> can oasis build shared library instead of executable? i.e. run something like ocamlfind opt -o libfoo.so -linkpkg -output-obj -package bar,baz some.cmx some.o ?
<Drup> Declare a library ?
<ysz_> will build ocaml library!
<Drup> it will also build .so & co if some C code is involved (through CSources)
<ysz_> it will build cclib
<ysz_> i want to have native object
<ysz_> as in -output-obj
<Drup> ah. I don't know, sorry
<ysz_> no worries. i put command in PostBuildCommand as workaround but thats...
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<gasche> reynir: just copy the META file of an existing package that has the same structure as yours
<gasche> META files are really simple
<gasche> if you're distributing a library, pick any library
<gasche> the META file for package $foo can be found at `ocamlfind query $foo`/META
<gasche> (for installed packages)
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<lessless> hi folks! how to call fit function from https://gist.github.com/lessless/c485b1250f3eb6aea597 ?
<lessless> fit "bar", 31 returns a function definition (int -> bool) * int = (<fun>, 31)
<Drup> remove the comma
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* lessless makes a facepalm
<lessless> thank you
<Drup> no problem :D
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<Drup> also, if you want to pass a tuple to a function, you should do: fit ("bar", 31)
<Drup> (which would give a type error here, ofc)
<lessless> got that
<lessless> btw what are best use cases for ocaml? where it really shines?
<Drup> everything involving heavy symbolic/data structure manipulation, I would say, which is very very vague.
<mcc> hey, so i was recommended sedlex https://github.com/alainfrisch/sedlex by this channel, but it seems to kind of… not… have documentation.
<mcc> is anyone familiar with this sedlex thing? i'm trying to figure out how to do a "group capture", if it offers that, and if there's a way to use it to kind of "slice off" bits of the front of a string...
<mcc> essentially, i'm trying to make a programming language interpreter, and i'm hoping to use sedlex to tokenize streams
<mcc> oh! that's very nice. i think i looked at the .ml first and the comments were less helpful * _ *
<Drup> sedlex's biggest advantage over ocamllex is that it handles utf8
<mcc> i really want utf8
<sheijk> mcc: there sadly is no capture in sedlex
<mcc> also i really want to not use an external generator
<Drup> ok
<Drup> why that ?
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<mcc> why what? why no external codegen?
<Drup> yes
<Drup> I mean, ppx is pretty much an external codegen at this point
<mcc> cuz codegen is scary and ime brittle and it requires writing build scripts and stuff D:
<Drup> it's just disguised as ocaml syntax
<mcc> yeah, but it's well integrated with the standard tools?
<Drup> ocamllex/yacc and menhir too
<Drup> (arguably, those are better integrated than ppx :p)
<Drup> but utf8 is a sufficient reason, I was just curious ;)
<Drup> I advise you to use menhir for the parser, though
<mcc> not gonna have a parser :D
<Drup> what sort of programming language is that ? a brainfuck clone ? :p
<mcc> … unlambda clone.
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<mcc> it's more that instead of a parser it uses a series of macros to establish things like precedence.
<mcc> although actually looking at menhir it seems like this could be valuable even if i only want a lexer?
<mcc> and i'm gonna need to be able to support, like, parenthesis groups.
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<Drup> your choice, it's easier with a parser.
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<mcc> ok
<mcc> menhir doesn't require an external lexer? like when it says it's "compatible with" ocamlyacc this means it has a similar syntax?
<Drup> it means an ocamlyacc file compiles out of the box with menhir
<Drup> and yes, it needs an external lexer
<mcc> oh right.
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<mcc> one more question-- let's say i've got some kind of data structure in memory in an ocaml program.
<mcc> what would be considered the most efficient way to dump it to a file, then resurrect it at a later time?
<Drup> the most efficient ?
<Drup> the good way is to use ppx_deriving to serialize it as json (or sexp, for similar purpose)
<Drup> the most efficient way is probably marshall, but it can potentially explode in your face.
<mcc> Yes, like, such that if the structure is quite large, the time or space costs are not so bad.
<mcc> okay. what does an explosion look like?
<Drup> segfault
<mcc> 'k
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<mcc> ps thank you for the explanations
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<lessless> another n00b question: how to call this function to match last pattern https://gist.github.com/lessless/5200afa0445c53f5b883 ?
<lessless> head [1,2,3,4] returns - : int * int * int * int = (1, 2, 3, 4)
<Drup> ";" instead of "," ;)
<Drup> you seem to have trouble with punctuation. :D
<lessless> aha, just a habit :)
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<mcc> okay. i think i am having some problems with simple building...
<mcc> Could you look at this? http://pastie.org/9692083 It cannot find "Sedlexing". But I have sedlex installed via ocaml, and there is a file sedlexing.mli in the sedlex package... https://github.com/alainfrisch/sedlex/blob/sedlex-1.99.2/src/lib/sedlexing.mli
<mcc> the test.ml in question is actually just one of the sedlex examples https://github.com/alainfrisch/sedlex/blob/sedlex-1.99.2/examples/tokenizer.ml
<Drup> version of ocamlfind ?
<mcc> 1.5.5 from opam
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<Drup> ah, hum, try -linkpkg
<mcc> that did it! should i try to get a different version of ocamlfind? :O
<Drup> no
<Drup> I asked to be sure you had a version that handle ppx, but it's not related, in fact
<mcc> oh, i see the problem. okay.
<mcc> um, here is a question. is there a way to invoke ocamlfind so that it invokes things "inline"?
<Drup> what do you mean ?
<Drup> but really, don't invoke ocaml by yourself, use a build system. =')
<mcc> that is, if i say just ocaml test.ml, it executes my ml file. but when i say ocamlfind ocamlc -package sedlex test.ml -linkpkg , it builds an a.out
<mcc> yes, i'll be doing that soon :O
<mcc> do you think i am making a tremendous mistake if i go with scons?
<mcc> anyway, i'm curious if i can get the behavior of the plain "ocaml" executable while getting ocamlfind's nice package finding behavior
<Drup> never heard of it, so it probably doesn't have ocaml rules built in, so yes
<Drup> :D
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<lessless> what list can match (h::_)::_ pattern?
<mcc> heh.
<companion_cube> [[1];[]]
<Drup> about your question with the interpreter, no way to do that cleanly that will still work with the compiler, no
<mcc> ok!
<mcc> (and i did find a third party tool for scons... on launchpad... from three years ago... with exactly one checkin)
<Drup> mcc: however, if you do "#use "topfind" ;;" in your repl
<Drup> you will have the command #require to load an ocamlfind package
<mcc> oh, that's interesting
<mcc> leaving aside the question of whether this is a *good* idea, could i put that in my code?
<Drup> (you should in fact use utop, a repl replacement, that has built in ocamlfind support)
<Drup> you can, but the compile will choke on it :D
<Drup> +r
<mcc> that's good to know thanks
<Drup> (that's why it's a bad idea :p)
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<lessless> companion_cube, and [| _; (_, x) |]::_ ?
<Drup> that's not a list, it doesn't match _::_
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<companion_cube> lessless: [ [| (0,true); (1,false) |]; [| |] ]
<Drup> oh, I misunderstood the question, sorry
<Drup> companion_cube: I think should write a program to automate that :D
<companion_cube> heh
<Drup> given a pattern, find an inhabitant
<Drup> if you leave guards out, it's quite trivial :p
<companion_cube> the compiler can do something close, related to exhaustivity, I guess
<Drup> hum, it finds a pattern
<mcc> Oh, one more question. I'm confused by the fact that ocamlc and ocamlopt are both offered. Why would one ever use ocamlc instead of ocamlopt?
<Drup> does it gives a value too ? I don't remember
<Drup> yep, only a pattern
<Drup> mcc: when native compilation is not available, and for speed
<Drup> (ocamlc compiles much quicker)
<mcc> ok
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<reynir> I have a ppx_deriving_yojson question. I'm writing a wrapper for this json web api, and they return an object with a "type" field. The value of the type field determines which fields will be null, so you can consider it as a poor man's variants. Is there a nice way to encode this?
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<reynir> Also, anyone know how [%of_yojson:] should work?
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