<whitequark>
and thus you can even bring them all in a single namespace (with open)
<mcc>
hm
<mcc>
so a problem i am looking at here is that i have a naturally recursive function which builds something up over time, where some things are known early and like, one thing known only late
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<mcc>
so i'm thinking about the recursive function i'd need to keep all the intermediate state "in the air" until everything that goes in the record is known, and it seems like this is gonna be a function with many arguments
<mcc>
but this is a big match statement, so this seems a lot of repetitive code
<mcc>
i'm thinking about doing something silly like having the match statement return a fn or something, but...
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<whitequark>
that's actually not a bad idea, if it fits your task well
<whitequark>
I wrote code like that
<whitequark>
so, hm, what I would do is to do something like:
<whitequark>
let rec fn ~a ~b ~c ~d next =
<whitequark>
let fn = fn ~a ~b ~c ~d in
<whitequark>
and then you'd call (fn next) when you want to process the next element.
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<mcc>
oh oh that's interesting
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<artagnon>
whitequark: What does "bus error" at execution time mean?
<mcc>
ok so... this is explained in one of these documents i have open, i know it, but i can't find it...
<mcc>
i am defining a function like (let a b = b) or something. how do i explicitly give the function's return type?
<mcc>
if i say let a b : int = x, or something, i'm just specifying b's type, i think
<Drup>
let f x : int = x
<whitequark>
let f x : int
<Drup>
to specify x's type : "let f (x:int) = x"
<whitequark>
mcc: to specify x's type, you'd have let f (x : int)
<whitequark>
argh
<Drup>
to specify both "let f (x:int) x : int = x"
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<Drup>
meh, one extract x
<Drup>
whitequark: too slow :p
<mcc>
i think i asked this question wrong
<mcc>
let f x : int = x (* this means... takes one argument, argument is an int
<Drup>
no, this means takes ones argument and returns an int
<mcc>
ok. and in order to specify argument, i must explicitly parens?
<Drup>
yes
<mcc>
lovely, thanks
<mcc>
...huh. interesting how two very similar programs produce very different ocamlopt build times
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<Drup>
?
<mcc>
oh, i just... i had a program, i changed it not-a-lot, ocamlopt took like 10x more time to complete afterward than before.
<mcc>
ok, so here is a question: http://i.imgur.com/77OJjWJ.png ... that second function. that seems like... a lot of code duplication. is there any way to cut down on that?
<Drup>
why do you give me a picture of the code instead of a pastebin ? T__T
<Drup>
you can't do much better without code generation
<mcc>
oh! that's neat
<mcc>
with the delayed ->
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<mcc>
is there a way to write a nullary function in ocaml
<mcc>
like, a function that takes unit, or something
<mcc>
...
<mcc>
oh.
<mcc>
you just write a function that takes unit.
<mcc>
well then
<ggole>
All functions are technically unary.
<ggole>
Taking unit is close enough though.
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<dmbaturin>
mcc: Note that you always need to write the unit argument when calling such a function. It has bitten me several times when I forgot it.
<flux>
quite back luck if you don't get an error or warning out of it, though
<flux>
a/back/bad/
<Drup>
It's more than bad luck, I don't see how it's possible
<Drup>
except if you silence the warning about non-unit expression in sequence, but you deserve it then
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<dmbaturin>
Drup: If it also returns unit, and you attempt to call it from the top level, and you are lazy to match it on unit and just add a ;; ... :)
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<dmbaturin>
* lazy enough
<Drup>
Oh, top level, okay.
<dmbaturin>
Since then I always use let () = matching so silly mistakes become type errors.
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<flux>
dmbaturin, btw, do you know you can write programs without using ;; at all? then you get to use let () = .. for top-level statements, though I suppose you could still use let _ = .. ;)
<flux>
hmh, I suppose you do and that's what you were referring to
<dmbaturin>
flux: Sure, with matching on unit I also don't need ;;'s
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<Drup>
you will need to put stuff into _tags at some points anyway.
<Drup>
(like, as soon as you will want external dependencies)
<mcc>
No, the tags is in src/
<Drup>
Oh.
<Drup>
you could put it on layer above
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<Drup>
it's usually how it's done anyway
<Drup>
but yeah :/
<mcc>
I'm specifically trying to quarantine all source stuff in src/ and all build stuff in _build/ and have the two be separate.
<mcc>
"Usually how it's done" with OSS projects, IME is that the root of the project is just a big splay of confusing junk and you don't know what is what and helpessly look for an INSTALL file
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<Drup>
No, I mean, just the _tags file
<Drup>
not every sources
<mcc>
I feel like the _tags is an extension of the source as it describes the source's properties
<whitequark>
mcc: use something like ocamlbuild -tag-line '"src": traverse'
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<mcc>
oh
<mcc>
...neat
<mcc>
wait hold on will that make it recursively traverse src
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<mcc>
i don't want it to recursively traverse, i want it to do exactly what it's doing but not print a superfluous warning
<whitequark>
not recursive, no
<whitequark>
that'd be "true: traverse"
<mcc>
ah.
<mcc>
with ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind -tag-line '"src": traverse' src/main.native it still printed the _tags message
<mcc>
i will just have the Makefile create an empty _tags
<mcc>
I feel more ok with garbage files being created by the make system than being checked in
<whitequark>
hm
<ggole>
That's not a great idea, because sooner or later you'll want to add something to it.
<Drup>
ggole: cf above :p
<ggole>
Right.
<mcc>
hm
<whitequark>
mcc: I don't really understand why it displays the message
<mcc>
i guess... ok, so that's nonfatal because when i want to add something I just add something and check it in... but then hg starts complaining every time I traverse the boundary between "_tags checked in" and "no _tags checked in". Bah.
<whitequark>
.hgignore?
<ggole>
_tags should probably be under vc though
<whitequark>
mcc: if you give me something to reproduce it I might figure out a cleaner way
<whitequark>
I looked into ocamlbuild source and I have no fucking clue what is the condition for displaying the message
<mcc>
whitequark: i think i can do that easily... later.
<whitequark>
it does ... something ... with expanding paths
<Drup>
"ocamlbuild does something"
<mcc>
I'm not sure if .hgignore gets me out of this. the problem is hg gets upset if you try to update from a version that has a file named _tags that it didn't create, to a version where it needs to create a file named _tags...
<Drup>
I think it's the most acurate description I've read about ocamlbuild
<mcc>
i think overall ocamlbuild did not expect that you are trying to build out of a source directory other than cwd.
<Drup>
oh no, that works fine
<mcc>
anyway, this is not important
<whitequark>
mcc: I've just tried to: touch src/main.ml; ocamlbuild src/main.native; and it doesn't display the hint
<whitequark>
I don't really get why it does, in your case
<Drup>
it did no expect you to put the _tags not in the root directory
<Drup>
which is different
<mcc>
whitequark: what if you have _tags in src/ but not in pwd
<whitequark>
same thing
<whitequark>
it's something else
<mcc>
that's... odd. by the way, i think it might only be printing the message when the build fails.
<mcc>
give me a second...
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
oh yes it does
<whitequark>
wow who thought this is a good idea
<mcc>
wait, seriously, that was it?
<mcc>
that's... weird
<mcc>
so seriously, is there a ticket system for all this stuff?
<mcc>
cuz i had another "super small, but weird" observation about ocamlbuild--
<mcc>
"the suffering of javascript developers" appears quite high in that search
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<mcc>
bug system is asking for platform. I'm including my platform. whitequark, you said you saw the funny newline thing after ocamlbuild -clean? what platform was that on?
<whitequark>
mcc: in this case the terminal is relevant, so, konsole
<whitequark>
on debian
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<mcc>
'k thanks
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<whitequark>
wow, there is an option -no-skip
<whitequark>
it makes ocamlbuild not display the hint. it also makes it *hide the compiler error*
<mcc>
that is
<whitequark>
what the fuck, ocamlbuild
<mcc>
...that is not a helpful feature
<mcc>
what does "skip" mean in this context
<whitequark>
I have no idea, the variable in ocamlbuild source is called Options.ignore_auto
<whitequark>
... and I have no idea how *any* of that relates to this at all
<whitequark>
oh, it gets better!
<Drup>
-no-skip Don't skip modules that are requested by ocamldep but cannot be built
<Drup>
It doesn't really make more sense ...
<whitequark>
you can pass both -no-skip and -classic-display
<mcc>
D:
<whitequark>
in which case it will both hide the error message and output three screens of junk
<whitequark>
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
<Drup>
<3
<MercurialAlchemi>
"OCaml Tooling vs Predator", next summer's blockbuster
<Drup>
If I may, all the tooling is not bad
<flux>
whitequark, I think you should use autoconf
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<flux>
it would solve all your problems.
<Drup>
only the build systems.
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<whitequark>
flux: did you just tell me to fuck myself?
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: ok, where is my debugger?
<Drup>
It's called printf :<
<flux>
whitequark, maybe I did.. maybe I didn't.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Yeah, considering that my real-life debugging experience includes inspecting third-party libraries three level deep, that's not very reassuring
<ggole>
I'd rather a better toplevel than a debugger
<adrien>
gdb
<Drup>
I'd rather a debugger than contains a toplevel.
<flux>
imagine a world.. where a top-notch debugger was integrated into the toplevel.
<ggole>
(Although that would probably change as soon as I had to work on somebody else's code...)
<whitequark>
flux: I've used make, autoconf, cmake, waf, ocamlbuild, ocamlmakefile, omake, ocp-build, shellscripts, rake, ant, maven, leiningen, gyp and qmake
<MercurialAlchemi>
I'll admit that Merlin is awesome, though, and opam and utop are pretty good
<whitequark>
I have seething hate for all of them.
<MercurialAlchemi>
whitequark: "you are all equally worthless"? :)
<flux>
cmake isn't all bad with c(++)?-(
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<whitequark>
HAHAHAHAHAHA
<flux>
though you're not the first to have those sentiments towards it
<ggole>
Even some small things like backtraces in the toplevel would be helpful
<whitequark>
I had to do some major CMake work for LLVM recently.
<whitequark>
CMake is worse than autoconf.g
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, Maven works as long as you don't want to do anything complicated, and it has some good ideas
<whitequark>
significantly.
<whitequark>
autoconf is just misguided. cmake is downright developer-hostile.
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: are we talking about the eclipse thing ?
<whitequark>
you couldn't make a worse fucking buildsystem if you deliberately tried
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: well, there is an Eclipse plugin for it, but you don't need Eclipse to use it
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<MercurialAlchemi>
as long as your editor can edit XML files
<MercurialAlchemi>
obviously, as soon as you try to get off the rails, you'll find out about the barbed wires and the landmines on the side
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<MercurialAlchemi>
whitequark: Did you try premake?
<MercurialAlchemi>
I used it briefly, before I remembered exactly why I so love c++, wasn't that bad
<whitequark>
MercurialAlchemi: it'll probably end up a sixteenth buildsystem that I hate
<MercurialAlchemi>
write your "makefile" in a lua dialect, no weird case-insensitive macros of hell
<mcc>
i… was that a joke, that sounds lovely
<mcc>
i actually at one point tried to write some build scripts in lua but it turned out LuaFileSystem is surprisingly hard to get working with luajit
<mcc>
oh wow you mean premake is the system where the makefiles are a lua dialect
<mcc>
d… does the dialect have closures
<MercurialAlchemi>
of course, I only used for a short time on a small project, so I didn't get the opportunity to throw things at it
<whitequark>
I think it's just Lua, not actually a separate implementation
<whitequark>
(that would be super weird)
<MercurialAlchemi>
it's just Lua, yes
<MercurialAlchemi>
but you can write your "makefile" in something that looks declarative
<mcc>
cool
<whitequark>
mcc: I give up, I'm not a good enough programmer to figure out how to make ocamlbuild not display that
<mcc>
build systems are such that "we made a lua variant, to no benefit to us, and now will maintain it forever" would be a *relatively not that weid* decision to make
<mcc>
whitequark: haha. ok. maybe i'll file something later
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<whitequark>
mcc: yes exactly, I wouldn't even be really surprised
<whitequark>
mcc: please use the word "burn" in the issue title
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<mcc>
oh dear
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* adrien
hugs whitequark
<adrien>
for the cmake comments :P
<whitequark>
adrien: at this point I actually prefer debugging m4.
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<whitequark>
that were not words that I thought I would ever say, yet still
<adrien>
cmake is meant for Visual Studio first and compatible for other systems too, probably because they couldn't get any traction otherwise
<adrien>
whitequark: :)
<whitequark>
cmake is meant as a divine punishment for the transgressions of mortals
<whitequark>
"I wish you had to use cmake" is a good curse.
<mcc>
ouch
<mcc>
i don't
<mcc>
i don't think i'd actually wish that on ANYONE.
<mcc>
except maybe the cmake maintainers, because there are definitely features of the program itself they've clearly never attempted, and if they had to maybe it would work better
<MercurialAlchemi>
I think the conclusion is that making build systems is hard
<MercurialAlchemi>
I did hear some good things about leiningen, though
* ggole
fantasizes about redirecting the effort put into optimizing php and javascript into build system design
<mcc>
somebody's making a javascript based build system
<mcc>
and, truth be told, i was seriously considering using it
<ggole>
What could possibly go wrong?
<ggole>
Well, good luck I guess.
<mcc>
well, i'm not using it.
<mcc>
I'm using Make :(
<mcc>
I'm using a bizarre, 14-line Makefile wrapper on ocamlbuild because I wanted it to store the build product somewhere different from its default :(
<MercurialAlchemi>
miam
<ggole>
Yeah, I wrap ocamlbuild in make too
<MercurialAlchemi>
I generally just adapt my latest oasis build file
<MercurialAlchemi>
(where generally = instance_count(2) )
<MercurialAlchemi>
ggole: you could have the best of both worlds, you know
<ggole>
I could probably do something with myocamlbuild.ml or _tags to obviate the makefile, but I actually can't bring myself to look at the documentation.
<MercurialAlchemi>
a PHP-with-JS build system
<whitequark>
documentation? which documentation?
<MercurialAlchemi>
use Apache and a web browser to create builds
<whitequark>
I just take a deep breath, open the source and try to direct the hate in less destructive ways
<ggole>
It's so much easier to fart around on the command line to figure out a param that does what I want, and just add that.
<whitequark>
oh, yeah, I mean if you need to write myocamlbuild rules
<ggole>
Yeah, I try to avoid that.
<whitequark>
like, if people wrote documentation and generally improved ocamlbuild instead of writing their pet shitty broken buildsystem, it would be actually usable
<whitequark>
but noooo, the NIH is especially rampant here
<MercurialAlchemi>
whitequark: it depends how broken the original source is and/or if you have radically different ideas
<whitequark>
it's not too broken.
<whitequark>
it had had some corners cut, that's clear. it's very much fixable. I mean, I use it in its current state just fine.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I like the idea of oasis, because I like declarative build systems with hooks, but I'm a bit worried that one day I may have to do something complex with it and blow my foot off
<whitequark>
having tried to do complex things in OASIS, I can say that at the moment you need something else than "compile an ml library" it is easier to ditch OASIS than to make it do what you want.
<MercurialAlchemi>
I'll try to stick to simple things
<MercurialAlchemi>
is it maintained?
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<whitequark>
.... welll
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<whitequark>
it's not what *I* would call "maintained", but technically yes
<Leonidas>
well, since gildor moved to google, maintenance has been sloooow.
<Leonidas>
thats also the time where forge started deterioriting
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<flux>
google is clearly intimidated by the competition brought by ocaml against go.
<Leonidas>
actually, oasis kinda also works when you want to compile a ml library with c parts :-)
<whitequark>
Defense and Security O_o
<Leonidas>
hahaha
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<MercurialAlchemi>
So they're buying off the competition, I see
<Leonidas>
you need to buy food at google?
<flux>
leonidas, it's a worldwide conspiracy, really. there are these big companies ('banks') that have made deals with other companies, that if people work for them, they increase a counter in their database system
<flux>
leonidas, then again there are more deals that food outlets give out food only to folks with some numbers in the database
<MercurialAlchemi>
I'm told violence can work too, but only a limited number of times
<MercurialAlchemi>
I'll note that in some locations, you can also obtain food via food stamps
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I've just thought about a business model
<MercurialAlchemi>
What about recovery clinics for Java developers?
<MercurialAlchemi>
They could do some OCaml without the 'O', and learn to live without inheritance, nulls and mutability
<arj>
realworldocaml is down? anyone responsible here to fix this?
<arj>
the paper version of the book is at home… :/
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<mcc>
addToLineProceed ( token ( Number (float_of_string(Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme buf)) ) )
<mcc>
... would there happen to be any suntactic tricks for cutting down on my a(b(c(d(e problem there
<mcc>
like i think haskell has $ or something for this. i don't know what $ does.
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<mcc>
i guess i could do something weird with o
<mcc>
( ( addToLineProceed o token o Number o float_of_string o Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme) buf )
<MercurialAlchemi>
you can always |>
<arj>
mcc: you might use |> as in x |> f |> g is exactly equivalent to g (f (x)).
<mcc>
hm, ok. don't suppose there is a <| ?
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<whitequark>
I think the equivalent of haskell's $ is @@
<whitequark>
there is no equivalent of haskell's . though
<mcc>
i thought . was just o
<mcc>
what's @@ do
<whitequark>
I don't know what o does
<mcc>
(f o g)( x ) === f(g(x))
<whitequark>
let (@@) f x = f x
<whitequark>
let (|>) x f = f x
<mcc>
'k
<arj>
mcc: where is o defined ?
<mcc>
and @@ is infix
<whitequark>
both
<mcc>
arj: … … … in sml/nj?
<arj>
ah, I see.
<arj>
not Ocaml.
<mcc>
arj: ok, sorry, i sorta assumed it carried over here.
<Drup>
by "o", I suppose you mean ∘
<mcc>
ok. now i know.
<Drup>
#utf8 pedanticness
<mcc>
ok. anyway, SML/nj has a compose operator, and ocaml doesn't, but i did not know that :)
<whitequark>
Drup: not · ?
<mcc>
I'ma use @@. thanks all
<whitequark>
huh, I have no idea how to type that via compose
<Drup>
whitequark: no, functional composition is the ring
<Drup>
middle dot is usually scalar product :p
<whitequark>
... one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
<mcc>
that's probably the null ring
<Drup>
I'm sad to inform you that you are not the first one to do this joke.
<whitequark>
meh
<MercurialAlchemi>
always had trouble parsing point-free style in Haskell
<mcc>
gonna design my own language and add @_@ and >_> operators
<mcc>
(I just want it on the record i'm frustrated I can't remove that one last set of parenthesis)
<whitequark>
нщг сфт
<whitequark>
argh
<whitequark>
you can
<whitequark>
@@ fun x -> Number x @@ ...
<whitequark>
I think.
<mcc>
interesting
<whitequark>
hm, that seems to get precedence wrong
<mcc>
frankly, i've just done the entire thing with a ( ( ( ( chain
<mcc>
also, google translate translates the cyrillic there as "nschg SFT" which, since that kind of sounds like frustrated noises, seems like maybe an accurate translation
<whitequark>
wrong layout
<mcc>
anyway addToLineProceed(token(Number(float_of_string(Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme(buf))))) isn't very pretty but it is immediately obvious what it does
<mcc>
ah.
<whitequark>
it's "you can" in RU
<mcc>
ooo
<mcc>
good phrase
<whitequark>
I mean, in RU layout
<whitequark>
not the language lol
<whitequark>
mcc: so what I usually do is |>
<whitequark>
in this case you can actually use fun x -> Number x trick
<whitequark>
and it looks pretty.
<MercurialAlchemi>
It would look better if you directly use the constructor as a function
<mcc>
ok. so. just so i understand
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<mcc>
addToLineProceed(token(Number(float_of_string(Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme(buf))))) (* this does the right thing
<mcc>
| number -> addToLineProceed @@ token @@ fun x -> Number x @@ float_of_string @@ Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme @@ buf (* this is an error message
<mcc>
File "src/tokenize.ml", line 40, characters 53-121: Error: This expression should not be a function, the expected type is Token.tokenContents
<whitequark>
yes, because it gets parsed as fun x -> (Number x @@ float_of_string @@ ...)
<mcc>
oooo...
<mcc>
would <| have had this problem
<whitequark>
yes, because fun x -> binds tighter than any operator
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<mcc>
'k
<whitequark>
so, yeah, buf |> Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme |> float_of_string |> fun x -> Number x |> token |>addToLineProceed
<whitequark>
it's like the shell pipe, hence |>
<mcc>
ok sorry
<mcc>
when i said "would <| have had this problem" i emant "would |> have"
<whitequark>
oh.
<mcc>
if -> binds tighter than any operator, why didn't it mess up with |>
<whitequark>
because in this case the code is still correct
<mcc>
oh
<whitequark>
fun x -> (Number x |> token |> addToLineProceed)
<whitequark>
does exactly what you want there
<mcc>
oh. interesting.
<whitequark>
it also reads from left-to-right and I mean
<whitequark>
we're in a left-to-right reading culture
<whitequark>
why the hell would anyone use $
<mcc>
is $ just @@
<whitequark>
let me check
<mcc>
the reason i want @@ is it's like a left-paren i don't have to close
<whitequark>
yes, $ is the same as @@
<mcc>
side note: so i pull out my "open"s. there is some code in tokenize.ml which uses Number, which is defined in token.ml . it realizes Number is in token, goes ahead and pulls it out, announces it did this and makes it a warning.
<mcc>
That's... incredibly cool and kind of terrifying. I gave it no clue how to find Number and it just FOUND it.
<whitequark>
yes, it's type-driven
<whitequark>
something was of type Token.t and another thing was unified with that
<whitequark>
so it sees "Number" with type Token.t and there's no Number in scope
<whitequark>
but Token.t defines a Number constructor, so it's even safe
<whitequark>
the reason there is a warning is that slight changes to code may alter the path of the inference and it will no longer find the constructor
<mcc>
right
<mcc>
the warning is very sensible
<mcc>
just curious, is there some kind of equivalent of python "from blarg import gnfnrf" as a kind of half-step toward "open"
<mcc>
or is that what you define an MLI for
<whitequark>
you can manually pull out values and types
<whitequark>
type t = Foo.t
<whitequark>
let v = Foo.v
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<whitequark>
module M = Foo
<ggole>
You can do this locally, too
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<whitequark>
in the former case the constructors aren't pulled out though.
<ggole>
Foo.(zonk whorf blat)
<mcc>
yeah ok
<whitequark>
which is sugar for "let open Foo in zonk whorf blat"
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<whitequark>
which does exactly what you expect
<mcc>
incidentally, i'm STILL very confused about when you use a record and when you use a not-file-level module
<mcc>
errrr wait
<whitequark>
modules are basically records with types
<mcc>
you mean records which are allowed to contain types
<whitequark>
there is actually an ML variant which unifies modules and records.
<whitequark>
yes
<mcc>
ok. that makes sense
<ggole>
The types are the compile time part, really
<ggole>
They don't exist in the physical structure
<whitequark>
idiomatically, no one ever uses modules for data storage, though
<whitequark>
it's technically possible but ogh
<whitequark>
*ugh
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<whitequark>
generally, you use regular (not first class) modules for namespacing, and first-class modules when you need to store a record and associated type(s)
<mcc>
i think for a bit i thought people were using modules for data storage but no they were really using module.t for data storage
<whitequark>
say, if you have a list of some plugins, and you have a create function that returns an opaque type and some other functions that consume it
<mcc>
like i think i had an analogy in my head between module-with-functor and class-with-template in cpp and i followed it a little too literally
<whitequark>
oh
<mcc>
anyway, i think i get it better now
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<companion_cube>
Drup: you mean put mixtbl in containers? it doesn't even need GADTs ;°
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<mcc>
if i wanna build up a string letter by letter what is the most efficient way to do that
<mcc>
like... this. this doesn't seem efficient or tail-recursive or anything
<mcc>
let rec countdown x = match x with | 0 = "" | x = (string_of_int x) ^", "^countdown(x-1) in countdown 10;;
<mcc>
and i think they said ^ allocates a new string every time although idk if that's actaully a problem
<mcc>
also that doesn't compile, hopefully you see what i was trying to do, it was an example
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<whitequark>
Buffer.t
<whitequark>
Buffer.add_char
<mcc>
neat.
<MercurialAlchemi>
buffer is your friend, indeed
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<whitequark>
your only friend
<whitequark>
learn to love buffer, and it will love you in turn
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<MercurialAlchemi>
You can use the Format package to printf things to it
<MercurialAlchemi>
just don't forget to flush
<mcc>
so, uh, question
<mcc>
buffer stores... what exactly
<mcc>
or, maybe the question I really want to ask here: do i use add_char, add_string, or add_bytes if i want to add a unicode value
<Drup>
companion_cube: I didn't say it was using gadts, I say it was gadt-proof
<whitequark>
add_string.
<Drup>
said*
<mcc>
by "unicode value" i mean whatever Sedlexing.Utf8.lexeme returns
<mcc>
ok
<MercurialAlchemi>
don
<MercurialAlchemi>
grr
<MercurialAlchemi>
yeah, 'char' in ocaml parliance is just a byte
<mcc>
ok
<mcc>
what's a "string" and how is it different from a "bytes"
<mcc>
is this python 3 or hell world
<MercurialAlchemi>
a string is a collection of bytes
<whitequark>
" Dinner 㰠 Min Kenaoqinru ∽ Minke 㸢 pond 㵭 contravene enemy prison ਾ observing the Minke 㰾 observing the drama Zhi elata 㹶 㰊 㹹 careful with Rui & T."
<whitequark>
is it trying to warn me of something
<flux>
it's utf alright
<Drup>
Ah, I have a different result than you, whitequark :D
<flux>
I can't find a single western alphabet there
<whitequark>
Drup: I put it through google translate
<flux>
:)
<flux>
Kenaoqinru, zero google matches. how can this be!
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<mcc>
Huh!
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<mcc>
That's a bit frustrating and may explain the weird _tags "hint"
<mcc>
i say: ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind src/main.native
<mcc>
this produces a file named: main.native
<mcc>
not src/main.native
<mcc>
... any idea why?
<Drup>
sure, since it's executed in ., not in src
<whitequark>
it produces _build/src/main.native and also tries being helpful and symlinks it to the root
<Drup>
you can tell him not to do symlinks, iirc
<mcc>
" -no-links "
<mcc>
it worked yay
<Drup>
I find the symlinks nice ...
<Drup>
why don't you want them ?
<mcc>
call me picky but i really would like it if my source files were in src/ and nowhere else, my intermediate build products were in _build/ and nowhere else, and my final build outputs in package/ (flexible on name here) and nowhere else
<mcc>
and if the project root were a series of directories of obvious function, one README, and MAYBE a Makefile.
<flux>
for some reason the ocaml compiler never learned to find sources from directory other than where it produces the binaries
<flux>
I guess nobody wrote the code to do that :)
<whitequark>
it sort of can do that
<mcc>
flux: so, this is the odd thing. if i say ocamlbuild -no-links src/main.native
<Drup>
mcc: it's not a final product, it's a symlink
<whitequark>
but not in all cases and it doesn't always work
<mcc>
flux: it will place a copy of main.native into _build/src/main.native
<whitequark>
mcc: nonono, it's the other way around
<whitequark>
main.native is a symlink to _build/src/main.native
<mcc>
it will place a copy of a file named main.native into that place
<mcc>
the thing i want to call attention to is at no point does it actually create a file src/main.native
<mcc>
so i think this is dubious
<whitequark>
um, no, it doesn't work like make.
<mcc>
i think if i told it to create src/main.native, it would be a more understandable behavior if it were to create a symlink, or a file, or anything, in src/main.native
<whitequark>
ocamlbuild places *everything* into _build
<mcc>
ok.
<whitequark>
(except the symlinks)
<mcc>
i mean, the current behavior is what i *want*.
<whitequark>
okay
<whitequark>
oh, gotcha
<mcc>
it's just philosophically odd to me.
<whitequark>
it is a bit odd indeed.
<mcc>
anyway, the #1 reason i don't want the main.native symlink created is i am not at any point seeking to create a binary named main.native
<mcc>
the next step in my makefile is to cp the file out of _build and rename it to "emily". :P
<Drup>
why would you do that ?
<mcc>
because that is the name of the program.
<Drup>
well, then name it that way when installing
<mcc>
okay. does ocamlbuild have an install step?
<whitequark>
yeah, that part is annoying to me as well
<whitequark>
it doesn't.
<Drup>
(oasis does)
<whitequark>
it's a build system, not install system :p
<mcc>
i think copying to "package' is part of the install step
<mcc>
which is another reason i want everyhting in package, there will likely be other files in there at some point
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<Drup>
let's just say this is not very idiomatic in the ocaml way of composing a package :D
<flux>
I think copying stuff around the source tree is not installing ;)
<whitequark>
Drup: saying that you should just take main.native and shut up prior to installing is bullshit
<flux>
rather, preparing for an install
<Drup>
whitequark: i'm saying that trying to do some workaround ocamlbuild is not better.
<whitequark>
and no, of course it's better, it allows you to do what you want
<mcc>
i think, i might be more concerned about what is idiomatic for an ocaml project if i were explicitly making a project that targeted ocaml users.
<mcc>
but i'm not, i'm targeting emily users, and whatever i do gently hints at what might be idiomatic for emily users in future, assuming more than two people ever use this.
<Drup>
whitequark: and the "meh, it's call main" is a non-issue, just call your main emily and done, and it's not even a bad thing to call it like that, since there is no notion of main file in ocaml.
<whitequark>
then it'd be emily.native
<whitequark>
not emily
<Drup>
is that terrible ?
<mcc>
… … … although come to think of it, if i DID match ocaml idioms well, i could maybe distribute this thing through opam... hmm.
<mcc>
and i'd rather not name main emily because 'main' to me is specifically the *interface for the commandline tool*.
<mcc>
in the long run this may not be the only or even primary way of interacting with the software, for all i know.
<Drup>
right, that's a fair argument
<whitequark>
mcc: it will be not a problem to distribute this via opam in any case.
<whitequark>
like, if you can make it support "make install DESTDIR=x", it's opam-ready.
<Drup>
whitequark: I'm not saying that what is doing ocamlbuild is good (I don't like it), I'm just saying that considering it's a very minor inconvenient, being consistent with all the other packages using ocamlbuild/oasis is slightly more important
<mcc>
cool.
<Drup>
(let's be honest here, it's *very* minor)
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<mcc>
grumble grumble...
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<mcc>
so is PPX the kind of thing i could use to make a thing where like, [%construct(Word)] could turn into (fun x -> Word x)
<Drup>
whitequark: you could make an updated version and put it on ocaml.org
<mcc>
i've seen it! but thanks for the reminder ^_^
<whitequark>
maybe I should
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<ggole>
Oof, first class polymorphism is kinda heavy in OCaml
<ggole>
Can't just (fun a b -> ...) :(
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<ggole>
...or { f = fun a b -> ... }
<mcc>
ok, thanks again all. goodnight!
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<Unhammer>
# NDBM not found, the "camldbm" library cannot be built.
<Unhammer>
anyone know what ubuntu package that is?
<Unhammer>
(I'm guessing it's some non-ocaml prereq at least)
<MercurialAlchemi>
libgdbm3, probably
<MercurialAlchemi>
(on Debian)
<Unhammer>
ah, that seems to have worked, thanks MercurialAlchemi :)
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* Unhammer
is trying out eliom
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<Drup>
Oh :o
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<kakadu>
I always use sqlite
<kakadu>
instead dbm
* kakadu
is wondering why sqlite is not set by default..
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<jpdeplaix>
Kakadu: you should use dbm. Its performances are **way** better.
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<arj>
though you cannot use fancy SQL ;-)
<Drup>
it's used for a kv inside eliom
<Drup>
kv store*
<Drup>
so, no need for fancy sql
<MercurialAlchemi>
yeah, depends on what you need
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<MercurialAlchemi>
though I can't really think of a single time where something like this would have been useful for anything else than caching, in which case I'd have gone for memcached or something like that
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<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: you mean, a kv store ?
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: yes
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: what do you guys use it for?
<Drup>
in this case, it's server side session data
<MercurialAlchemi>
right
<MercurialAlchemi>
I guess the specs are unlikely to evolve toward something more relational
<Drup>
I don't see why it would
<Drup>
It has been there since quite a long time and it's serving it's purpose quite well
<Drup>
hum, for* >_>
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<adrien>
its*
<adrien>
:)
<Drup>
that too.
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<Drup>
Unhammer: thanks a lot for the remarks, keep adding them. I will fix them all in a batch by the end of the week
<Unhammer>
:)
<Unhammer>
have to downgrade to 4.0.1 to keep following the tutorial it seems
<Unhammer>
ojwidgets wants an older js_of_ocaml
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* Unhammer
→ tv
<Drup>
oh, ojwidgets :<
<Drup>
we may not have released a new version of this one
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<mcc>
Hey, um, is there anyone who might be able to help me understand sedlex's odd metaprogrammy magic?
<mcc>
i'm looking at the docs and the code https://github.com/alainfrisch/sedlex/ and i'm trying to figure out... is there a way to pass a regexp to a function.
<mcc>
The doc says: "It is possible to define named regular expressions with the following construction, that can appear in place of a structure item: let lid = [%sedlex.regexp? R]"
<mcc>
i assume "structure item" is a piece of ocaml jargon i don't know
<Drup>
a structure item is "something that goes at the top level"
<Drup>
"let x = ..." "module M = ..." "type .. = ..."
<mcc>
but it seems to complain if i pass [%sedlex.regexp? R] into a function, or return it from a "match"
<mcc>
ok. so it seems like it isn't actually saving a value into a bound variable named "lid", but rather it is somehow adding a lid : something map to some lookaside table somewhere/
<Drup>
I didn't look at the code, but that's indeed what I assumed when I read the doc
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<mcc>
ok. so it wouldn't surprise you if these "variables" are magic and can't be used in expressions containing variables?
<Drup>
mcc looked at the code, yes, you can't use them like normal values
<Drup>
(I must say, it's not elegant)
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<mcc>
heh
<mcc>
thanks!
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<Denommus>
sorry for the stupid question, but is there any certification program for OCaml?
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