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<Guest8230>
Looking for help using Batteries on OS X. MacPorts installed Batteries in /opt/local/lib/ocaml/site-lib/batteries/ but I don't know how to access the modules (both interactive and compiled)
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<Kakadu>
Are you aware of OCamlfind?
<Guest8230>
vaguely. It does not seem to know about this installation of batteries.
<Kakadu>
i.e. ocamlfind query batteries doesn't print good info?
<Guest8230>
ocamlfind ocamlc -package batteries rsa.ml -o rsa ==> ocamlfind: Package `batteries' not found
<Kakadu>
yes
<Kakadu>
Now You can fix findlib.conf by putting your specific paths there
<Guest8230>
Thanks! I'll look for findlib.conf
<Kakadu>
Or you can install opam somehow and install all ocaml-related stuff via opam
<Guest8230>
Opam is also installed. Is that better?
<Kakadu>
can you try `opam update && opam install batteries -v` ?
<Guest8230>
Trying...
<Kakadu>
and don't forget to do
<Kakadu>
$ eval `opam config env`
<Kakadu>
after that you do same ocamlfind compilation command and chaeck that it work now
<Kakadu>
orks*
<Kakadu>
works*
<Guest8230>
opam installed batteries!
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<Guest8230>
OK. The eval seems to have worked. How do I compile a simple program that uses a batteries module?
<Kakadu>
Your command above seems to be OK
<Guest8230>
Beautiful. Much thanks
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<whitequark>
gah! I want [@@deriving (Show)] so badly :/
<whitequark>
(but not badly enough to stop doing whatever I'm doing and fix *that* as well)
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<gasche>
08:36 < whitequark> (but not badly enough to stop doing whatever I'm doing and fix *that* as well)
<gasche>
"the story of my PhD"
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<willy_>
bonjour
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* whitequark
is a bit tired fixing all the stuff.
<whitequark>
$ opam pin|wc -l
<whitequark>
9
<whitequark>
will the yak shaving ever end? no. right now I have discovered that the ZeroMQ wireshark dissector doesn't work anymore.
<gasche>
I think installing development versions of stuff and trying to make other stuff still work is a hobby of yours
<def-lkb>
:), makes sense
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<rand000>
Hello - I have been working on some code that depends on the OCaml Text pcre-syntax extension; it is working in utop - but in trying to compile with ocamlfind, I've had to use the "-pp" flag instead of "-syntax" to get it working.. Anyone that has a clue why?
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<Kakadu>
What is your command exactly?
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<rand000>
The command that is stated in the OCaml-text manual (that doesn't work) is : "ocamlfind ocamlc -syntax camlp4o -package text.pcre -linkpkg -o foo foo.ml"
<rand000>
.. the command that works; "ocamlfind ocamlc -package text,text.pcre,text.pcre-syntax -pp "camlp4o -I $TEXT_DIR text.cma pc\
<rand000>
re-syntax.cma" -linkpkg -o foo foo.ml"
<Kakadu>
can you add -verbose to ocamlfind?
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<rand000>
Kakadu: Yes just a sec
<Kakadu>
AFAIR we need to use -syntax "camlp4o pa_something.cmo" or -syntax camlp4o -pp pa_something.cmo
<Kakadu>
rand000: Can you add line `archive(syntax, preprocessor) = "pcre-syntax.cma"` to META file manuall and after that retry command `ocamlfind ocamlc -package text.pcre,text.pcre-syntax,batteries -I `ocamlfind query text.pcre-syntax` -linkpkg -syntax camlp4o -o foo.byte foo.ml` ?
<whitequark>
well, Lua is memory-safe, and I don't think there are any possible security bugs
<whitequark>
this dissector also should be linear wrt/ input
<adrien>
for lua, yeah
<whitequark>
cute ?
<adrien>
but many dissectors are in C and they are awful; look at the number of CVEs for wireshark
<whitequark>
yes, you're right about that
<adrien>
"cute" because it's fairly long but also looks well-organized
<whitequark>
yeah
<whitequark>
there's still some cruft from the previous author, but I rewrote most of it to get to the present state
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<whitequark>
do you have any idea how to stack protocols one over another?
<adrien>
nope
* adrien
just finished getting linefeeds right in VB code \o/
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<adrien>
and fixed discovery of updates in yypkg
<adrien>
so now, double-click on yypkg.exe, it downloads the package list, shows which updates are available and prompts to continue with the update (and that's with a "GUI")
<knz>
any suggestion as to whom I could ask for proofreading?
<bernardofpc>
you need a math guy or a programming guy to read what you wrote ?
<knz>
ideally, one that has a foot on both plates
<knz>
hm, a foot in both shoes
<knz>
not sure which saying to use :)
<gasche>
knz: seems nice
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<gasche>
(the idea of having three families of examples side-to-side is interesting)
<knz>
gasche: I figured different people will have varying levels of expertise in each, so with 3 I broaden the readability
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<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
I'd have said it differently
<bernardofpc>
knz: I learnt categories before their application to CS, so my comments may come out a bit contrary to your initial intent (for a non-math audience)
<gasche>
the problem with categories is that it's too abstract to be enjoyable to be reachable without examples, so you need to pick examples
<bernardofpc>
I'd share though an idea from a teacher of mine
<gasche>
the other problem is that mathematicians usually pick examples from algebraic geometry, which is not the most accessible subject
<gasche>
by having many different kind of exemples, indeed, you broaden readership
<knz>
yes, that too
<bernardofpc>
Category Theory is "just logic", in the sense that it will not prove you anything much interesting (at least, in the beginning)
<bernardofpc>
BUT, it formalizes many situations in a uniform way, which make you recognize those patterns over time and be familiar with their application
<bernardofpc>
gotta go, I'll give a try further later in the afternoon
<gasche>
I'm not quite sure what your audience is
<gasche>
the reader has to be (1) not wishing to learn much about categories (you almost don't speak about functors, and that's the very beginning) (2) be interested in rather subtle and interesting details on the relation between maths and the world (eg. your digression on the choice of the equivalence relation to define the set)
<whitequark>
people who read monad tutorials? :)
<whitequark>
(are there any?..)
<gasche>
I don't think that's related to monad tutorials: you don't have natural transformations in this document
<whitequark>
I meant that, perhaps like it happens with monad tutorials, the document was written because one found the concept fascinating and not because there's a specific audience wishing to learn about it
<gasche>
there certainly is a specific audience interested in understanding monads, but I get your point
<gasche>
(people that want to do IO in Haskell)
<whitequark>
or people that want to do IO with Lwt?
<gasche>
knz: if you wish, I'd be happy to submit your document to r/compsci
<gasche>
I think it's readable enough (it's not a crappy draft), and you'll get people giving feedback, which is better than a single proofreader
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<Drup>
whitequark: I think you don't need monads to do IO with lwt
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<Drup>
(but you do understand monads after having used lwt :p)
<Nuki>
J'ai un ami qui a fait son mémoire sur les claviers et il présentait BEPO comme la meilleure configuration pour la programmation
<Nuki>
erf sorry
<Nuki>
fail with the arrows
<Drup>
whitequark: for the PR : just fix the try, I will merge, and we will go on from there
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<knz>
gasche: yes I think I'd like to follow up on your offer
<knz>
thanks
<knz>
and the motivation was really for me to "grasp" the concept of categories myself (to start with) and some colleagues of mine wiht the same profile
<gasche>
if you haven't already gone further than that yourself, you need to
<gasche>
my very own use case for Category Theory is "someone wrote a paper to ICFP that is full of categories, how do I read it without falling asleep?"
<gasche>
turns out in a fair number of cases you don't need *much*, but still a bit more
<gasche>
(not saying that having an introduction as a teaser is a bad idea)
<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
in fact the funny thing with your document is that
<gasche>
it is relatively good at letting you understand why maths in general (and CT in this case) are *interesting*, whithout actually giving you much technical content
<gasche>
it's not a bad property, I'm just more used to the other side of the technique/intuition ratio
<Drup>
(the anchor links don't work in this version but will work in the real website)
<companion_cube>
whitequark: gasche is getting a PhD, he doesn't have one yet :)
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<Drup>
companion_cube: can you proofread my tutorial ? :3
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<companion_cube>
alphaFeatures? :s
<Drup>
baaah
<Drup>
it's alpha because it was introduced less that one oasis version ago.
<Drup>
less than two*
<Drup>
never had any issue with it, and lot's of people are using it
<whitequark>
Drup: looks really great
<companion_cube>
it's pretty long, but so far it(s good
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<companion_cube>
Drup: I don't even know exactly what it does
<whitequark>
I only skimmed it, but it seems to contain all the right parts in the right order
<companion_cube>
the .gitignore is a good idea
<Drup>
companion_cube: I know, I didn't wrote the section "Plugin and Features" yet :D
<companion_cube>
?
<companion_cube>
you did include the build files plugin
<Drup>
I mean, I didn't wrote the part of the tutorial that explain this
<companion_cube>
ok
<companion_cube>
hmmm, it also explains camlp4 extensions, good
<companion_cube>
maybe this will help making oasis more popular
<companion_cube>
Drup: do you intend to submit it to ocaml.org?
<Drup>
obviously
<gasche>
whitequark: I'm a PhD student (meaning I don't have one), but yeah some category-heavy presentations are sleep-inducing
<gasche>
simply because there is too much background you need to get the paper
<gasche>
and if you're not familiar with the notions yet, you need to unfold all the definitions each time for them to make sense, and that's quite tiresome
<whitequark>
I see
<gasche>
(one examples would be some of the work on polynomial functors)
<whitequark>
what's that?
<gasche>
Drup: I would put the "commands you need to run" on their own line rather than inline
<gasche>
that helps the guy that read your tutorial once and want to reproduce the setup quickly locate the stuff to copy/paste
<companion_cube>
that's good overall
<Drup>
the only category theory presentation that didn't induced sleep for me was a tutorial by Thorsten Altenkirch. People often say to explain clearly something, you need to have a very deep understanding of the subject. The fact that only he managed to present it clearly is probably showing that this stuff is slightly over complicated :>
<gasche>
Drup: you mention ocamlyacc for the .mly but not menhir
<Drup>
gasche: good point
<Drup>
good points* even
<whitequark>
Drup: oh btw, re lwt: didn't have time for that today, rather I did some actually useful work instead of even more endless yak-shaving
<whitequark>
I'll probably do it in near future
<Drup>
whitequark: don't worry, no hurry
<Drup>
we have until 4.02 is out.
<whitequark>
sure. just clarifying
<whitequark>
by the way, *when* is 4.02 out?
<whitequark>
approximately?
<gasche>
aroudn this summer
<whitequark>
ah. that's great
<gasche>
Drup: "for sanity reasons", I don't think readers will get the joke
<adrien>
it's always during summer
<adrien>
it's sneaked out when nobody is around to look at it closely
<Drup>
whitequark: I'm not exactly working intensively on it either :p
<gasche>
you should just say "I find those very good default choices"
<Drup>
gasche: *I* ?
<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
or whatever
<whitequark>
Drup: we should get at deriving someday
<Drup>
:D
<gasche>
but being cynical in a documentation is a sure way to get misunderstood
<Drup>
whitequark: indeed
<gasche>
adrien: I think the rationale is that
<gasche>
it's very taxing work for Damien
<gasche>
and he likes to take holidays after (or just before) the release
<Drup>
gasche: I wasn't really cynical. Using non-utf8 to create an html document is just insane.
<adrien>
heh, no surprise
<Drup>
but you are right
<whitequark>
I'm not sure why non-utf8 should even be *discussed* at all
<gasche>
Drup: "This can be used by packaging tools"
<gasche>
you should probably mention oasis2opam around then
<Drup>
it's in it
<Drup>
keep reading.
<whitequark>
Drup: oh by the way, oasis2debian is horribly broken
<Drup>
oh ? :(
<whitequark>
it's not in opam at all and it doesn't compile on 4.01 even
<Drup>
urk
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<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
reading this gives me an idea regarding oasis
<gasche>
( Drup, I was going to complain that you don't say much about which of the auto-generated files should end up versioned )
<gasche>
oasis could store a hash of the _oasis file somewhere
<Drup>
it's exactly what's done inside auto generated files
<Drup>
huum
<gasche>
and Makefile rules could begin by saying "if _oasis changed, call oasis again to regenerate the other files"
<Drup>
no, I misread
<Drup>
gasche: that's exactly what the dynamic setup does
<gasche>
so that we don't need to check anything besides _oasis and the (hopefully good-looking) Makefile in the dcvs
<gasche>
no setup.ml in particular
<whitequark>
that's how oasis setup -setup-update dynamic does
<whitequark>
it's quite great
<Drup>
did you look at the setup.ml for a dynamic setup ?
<gasche>
nope
<gasche>
I think you should explain that better in your documentation
<gasche>
what should be versioned, what needs not
<Drup>
gasche: It's planed in the section "the Oasis files"
<gasche>
before the end part where "we tell you everything about the weird stuff you copy-pasted blindly before"
<Drup>
hum, ok
<Drup>
where should I put it ?
<gasche>
around there:
<gasche>
"This will produce the following files : setup.ml, configure and a Makefile."
<gasche>
(I need to go now, sorry for not reading the rest; good job!)
<Drup>
if this is too much for you, well ..
<Drup>
:D
<Drup>
thanks for the early proof reading
<Drup>
I'm missing the concept of footnotes in a website, for auxiliary informations than people can read if they want to know more.
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<whitequark>
Drup: there are footnotes on websites
<Drup>
sure, 5kms away from the location of the subject
<whitequark>
there are simple javascript plugins that show the text in a popup window
<whitequark>
or you can just add a link to jump back
<Drup>
oh, yeah, that too
<whitequark>
or boht
<whitequark>
both*
<whitequark>
... or you can rewrite it in LaTeX :p
<Drup>
x)
* whitequark
always gets excited when he notices Computer Modern somewhere unexpected
* Drup
has not even started is phd and is already contaminated by the CS way of writing papers
<Drup>
his*
<whitequark>
Drup, why do you want a PhD?
<Drup>
because it's fun ? :D
<whitequark>
hmm, I see
<def-lkb>
what is your cursus whitequark?
<Drup>
I'm going to be paid to invent new programming languages, using weird paradigms
<Drup>
why would I want to do something else ? x)
<whitequark>
def-lkb: well
<whitequark>
a significant amount of people my age I've talked to generally are involved in academic studies solely because that gets them a piece of paper they can show to get a little more money
<def-lkb>
:D
<whitequark>
so I have a somewhat depressing point of view here
<Drup>
yeah, I'm not really surprised
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<Drup>
lot's of students are not all that much interested by their studies
<rks`>
I'm wondering if we could maybe share some code at some point
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<rks`>
(if you're interested that is)
<rks`>
oooh, but you're not using the "-ideslave" of coqtop, ok.
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<tautologico>
whitequark: I didn't find the bindings in any keybinding file... is there a way to send all phrases up to the cursor? Ctrl+Down sends one phrase at a time
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<whitequark>
tautologico: not really, it's not implemented
<tautologico>
whitequark: ok thanks
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<whitequark>
rks`: I'm not sure how would we share code between vim and sublime
<tautologico>
I think I'll just get back to emacs and use Proof General for the time being
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<rks`>
whitequark: I thought you were using the protocol of coqide
<rks`>
which is a big chunk of xml
<rks`>
we probably could have shared that, but you don't so nevermind :)
<whitequark>
ah
<whitequark>
if I wrote it from scratch, I'd have used emacs mode probably
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