<ds2> i have learned to delete more then needed to ensure there is no ambiguity then redo them... otherwise what you describe is common
<DocScrutinizer05> it's very important to draw those lines in the right direction
<ds2> IIRC... DRC does catch it
<Oksana> Hmm, does Eagle think that these unconnected wires are just "testing pads", or something?
<ds2> just makes for very puzzling DRC reports :D
<DocScrutinizer05> I tried ERC which doesn't
<DocScrutinizer05> dunno how DRC would catch it
<ds2> erc is schematic only
<ds2> wait
<ds2> this is schematic...nevermind
<ds2> i know I have seen it before...just don't remember the deails of how i caught it
<ds2> details
<ds2> do the symbol pins have the right type (Sup, Pwr, ANalog, etc)?
<DocScrutinizer05> Oksana: eagle thinks they are so called soda traces (german joke "die sind einfach >so da<")
<DocScrutinizer05> since they are sinngle ended connections, they don't show up in net lists, so no trace will get generated for them
<DocScrutinizer05> well, in this specail case you might be able to spot it in netlist since the net has a unique name and is not connected to more than one component
<DocScrutinizer05> in the more common case you have two or more components on each of the split net half-branches
<DocScrutinizer05> so all looks OK, except the bot nets should be one
<DocScrutinizer05> both*
<ds2> if the pin type is set right in the component, eagle will flag it if it is not on the right kind of net
<DocScrutinizer05> yes
<DocScrutinizer05> but netsplits suck, in IRC and in eagle
<DocScrutinizer05> when you connect 4 GPIO and eagle splits that into two nets with 2
<DocScrutinizer05> lost case
<DocScrutinizer05> you only realize sth is odd when your hardware fails
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<DocScrutinizer05> nota bene eagle *easily* could avoid that mess, by simply not allowing a single ended trace ending in a joint
<DocScrutinizer05> this is an *absolute* NOGO
<Oksana> Hmm, should make it give each net a different colour, and display the schematics colourfully. Then netsplits would be visible... /GUI make-manual-debugging-easy approach/
<DocScrutinizer05> eagle should pop up a modal dialog giving you the choice to either join voth nets or delete the wire
<Oksana> Would be nice
<DocScrutinizer05> this thing you see in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCG4daPvuVI is something extremely rogue to do by any EDA
<DocScrutinizer05> the visual representation is not consistent with the netlist. there is no way this could be a legitimate thing you want to have in your schematics
<DocScrutinizer05> or let's just call it a BUG
<DocScrutinizer05> big fat nasty stinking BUG
<DocScrutinizer05> on the bright side Werner was able to catch those bugs in KiCAD, so we're actually benefitting from the migration eagle->kicad already
<DocScrutinizer05> already
<DocScrutinizer05> then watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCG4daPvuVI awesomeness
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<DocScrutinizer05> Arch-TK: >>press "E"...<< does open trace properties dialog for me
<Arch-TK> if you click, do you start creating a trace?
<Arch-TK> (make sure that happens first)
<DocScrutinizer05> ok
<DocScrutinizer05> HAH!!
<DocScrutinizer05> ta!
<Arch-TK> you're welcome
<Arch-TK> Now if you excuse me... it's 1 am :P You should sleep too. it's 2 am.
<DocScrutinizer05> 2:21, no time for me
<DocScrutinizer05> anyway, the cairo canvas opens the 'smart routers' dialog on "E", but I can't seem to do any dragging or shoving
<DocScrutinizer05> nevermind
<DocScrutinizer05> works
<DocScrutinizer05> quite slow but...
<DocScrutinizer05> now we're talking :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> Arch-TK: thanks and have a nice rest
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<chomwitt> goodmorning from Hellas
<wpwrak> mmh. fixing the resistors will be so much joy :(
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<wpwrak> well, not all that horrible after all.
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<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: you seem KiPart (and KiCost :-D ) ?
<DocScrutinizer05> [2016-07-19 Tue 01:34:12] <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX4l8i4TSWY worth a watch
<wpwrak> yes, kipart might be useful. not sure how much control it really gives you, though.
<wpwrak> kcost is a bit primitive :)
<DocScrutinizer05> kicost is a knockoff of what you already did aiui :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> according to #kicad 'celebrities' KiPart is indeed useful
<wpwrak> (kicost) yeah, it goes in the same direction
<wpwrak> i'm a bit surprised that the author of kipart thinks footprints are so easy. i guess he doesn't use many connectors :)
<DocScrutinizer05> footprints?
<DocScrutinizer05> aiui it's about parts for schematics
<wpwrak> in his video he says that fps are easy, since there can only be so many QFP packages :)
<DocScrutinizer05> aaah, quite an odd notion
<DocScrutinizer05> however I wonder how well footprint conversion went
<wpwrak> btw, also schematics symbols pose no major problem for editing after conversion. so we can fix some of the worse offenders.
<DocScrutinizer05> our eagle footprints are more valuable than the symbols
* wpwrak glares at IP4220CZ6
<wpwrak> haven't looked at fps yet
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: I verified cairo canvas in VM allows push&shove
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> a tad sluggish, yes
<wpwrak> yeah, speed is the problem there
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly thanks cairo rather than any VM effects
<wpwrak> cairo seems to be slow pretty much everywhere :)
<DocScrutinizer05> that's what they said
<DocScrutinizer05> not exactly glacier like, like you suggested (at least for me), but sort of like my first windows PC on dragging windows
<DocScrutinizer05> there's just a certain not insanely low maximum mousespeed at which you can expect display to follow
<DocScrutinizer05> and I guess when shoving more than just 2 traces, it might really get unbearable
<DocScrutinizer05> for the rest other than push/shove stuff works just fine
<DocScrutinizer05> and that's a VM with iirc 1 CPU core
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<DocScrutinizer05> alas aiui KiCAD isn't multithreaded at all, at least in router and rendering
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<DocScrutinizer05> I already was desperate about the pathetic routing features in default canvas
<DocScrutinizer05> but the "remove redundant traces" and "drag vias/segments" made my day
<wpwrak> remove redundant traces can be a bit nasty. sometimes you _want_ redundant traces. so you have to rememeber to turn it off in time
<wpwrak> phew. resistors done.
<wpwrak> on to capacitors ...
<DocScrutinizer05> HAH! great! (no (much) sarcasm), I closed the .brd in eagle some time yesterday, then when I fixed the idiotic netname issue, obviously this didn't propagate to board. Now I have a great list of defects in board caused by that fsckup, when running ERC
<wpwrak> ;-)
<wpwrak> hmm. we have surprisingly many 0603 caps. for stuff like 100 nF bypass. i wonder if that's really intentional.
<DocScrutinizer05> 0402?
<DocScrutinizer05> ask Nik
<wpwrak> let's count them ...
<DocScrutinizer05> there might be a sane (though possibly not applicable) rationale behind it
<wpwrak> 133 x 0402, 31 x 0603
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh
<DocScrutinizer05> got a list?
<DocScrutinizer05> for e.g. audio relevant stuff I easily can see why
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm petty sure we got no 31 audio caps
<wpwrak> hmm no, no easy list. kicad wants to annotate (auto-assign references) before producing a BOM. i'm not ready for that yet
<wpwrak> why would audio need physically larger caps ?
<DocScrutinizer05> no problem. I gather most of them are buffer anyway?
<DocScrutinizer05> audio wants high quality caps that don't introduce harmonics
<wpwrak> here is a list of the sheets they're on: https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/Liedee3o
<DocScrutinizer05> so larger capacitance and particularly larger voltage and good ceramics are the least thing to do for audio
<wpwrak> it just says larger, nothing about voltage or chemistry
<wpwrak> (nik did indicate voltage sometimes)
<wpwrak> not sure if he also flagged NP0/C0G. if there's no explicit chemistry requirement, we can just use Y5V everywhere, right ? (-:C
<DocScrutinizer05> ask Nik
<wpwrak> (y5v) naw, i think we already know not to do that ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> I do
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry, need more coffee
<DocScrutinizer05> was a long night and a short daytime nap
<DocScrutinizer05> and eagle just drives me mad with "fwd/back annotation broken"
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe I should already rm -rf
<DocScrutinizer05> why can't that stupid PoS just force the new netlist to board, particularly when it's just ratsnest that changes (no traces yet)
<wpwrak> :)
<DocScrutinizer05> apropos, there might be a total OOPS in that, probably VBUS-MODEM-CPU *is* right, in that the 0R are not supposed to be populated and instead a "small chargepunp" pulls VBUS-MODEM-CPU to 5V
<DocScrutinizer05> I need to *review* the schematics
<wpwrak> yes :)
<DocScrutinizer05> not pepphole-bugfix
<DocScrutinizer05> peep*
<wpwrak> but better wait with this until the conversion is complete. then things can be fixed swiftly.
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, and I'm afraid we're fixing the wrong things now
<wpwrak> i basically just marked all the "this looks confused" areas as "for further study" :)
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe the way better approach would have been to make the non-connected wire obvious and keep the netname for now
<wpwrak> there's quite a bunch of stuff that looks like the beginning of a tought process that never quite went anywhere
<DocScrutinizer05> nah, not much
<DocScrutinizer05> the VBUS-MODEM-CPU is prot_v2 specific since it's about allowing midem USB on USB jack, to give the whole thing a purpose after evaluation
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe we might want to nuke it
<DocScrutinizer05> *maybe*!
<wpwrak> so my to do list for now has: fixing the caps (just the visual representation), then hunt down atrocities like text over things,. + joints and such
<DocScrutinizer05> there are some other areas that are not finalized yet, and they are all somehow marked in the schematics
<wpwrak> at that point, the schematics should be readable
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe provide the kicad project files so I can have a real life look at them?
<wpwrak> they're in the ee repo, directory hw/
<wpwrak> make sch to invoke eeschema
<DocScrutinizer05> err
<DocScrutinizer05> a tad more verbose howto needed at my side
<DocScrutinizer05> you shouldn't assume everybody has your workflow, centered completely around git and make
<wpwrak> git clone http://neo900.org/git/ee.git should work for read-only. for read-write, maybe git clone git@neo900:ee will work
<DocScrutinizer05> ok let's try this
<wpwrak> (read-only = you can't push changes. you can of course edit files locally, and you could even commit changes to your local copy of the repo)
<wpwrak> once you have the repo, you can get updates with git pull
<DocScrutinizer05> http://paste.opensuse.org/23057456 looks good?
<wpwrak> perfect
<DocScrutinizer05> now make ee?
<wpwrak> cd hw; make sch
<DocScrutinizer05> (I guess this assumes I got a working KiCAD)
<wpwrak> yup
<DocScrutinizer05> :-/
<DocScrutinizer05> how to get the project files?
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<wpwrak> they're in hw/
<DocScrutinizer05> err, isn't all that git
<DocScrutinizer05> ?
<wpwrak> not sure what you mean. git manages the files. but they're just normal files. it doesn't mess with their content.
<DocScrutinizer05> KiCAD creates quie a few temporary files etc
<wpwrak> yes, but the repo only contains "sources" (or, as an exception, "valuable" generated files)
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<wpwrak> e.g., in cvt/, you can find the conversion results. i put them into the repo because they're difficult to recreate.
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<DocScrutinizer05> I neither want to push those, nor am I ready to go through git hell for a day again, telling git that my local repo doesn't matter and I neither want to delete local files nor let them overwrite by remotre files or sync them to repo
<wpwrak> git will only change things if you ask it to
<DocScrutinizer05> haha
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<DocScrutinizer05> so "don't ask git to do anything and it won't" - makes sense
<wpwrak> if you make changes you don't want to keep, you can put them away with "git stash". as an added benefit, it will save a copy. so if you change your mind later, you can still get your changes
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<DocScrutinizer05> too complicated
<wpwrak> think of "git stash" as another word for "undo" :)
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess I need to leave that stuff alone and plain cp(1) the content I'm interested to a real normal workdir
<maddagaska> DocScrutinizer05: After you clone you can just rm -r .git if you really don't want git to say anything, ever, about your current dir.
<wpwrak> maddagaska: that's a little radical ;-)
<maddagaska> wpwrak: Yes, but functionally equivalent to copying it all out, just with less waiting.
* maddagaska smiles
* maddagaska likes git, but gets people not wanting to have to have anything to do with <tool>
<DocScrutinizer05> as long as git isn't integreated into midnight commander, I rather won't touch it
<wpwrak> maddagaska: the thing is that joerg will soon want to update the files. i mean, i'm still in the middle of the post-conversion cleanup. so there are significant improvements happening several times per day.
* maddagaska nods
<maddagaska> wpwrak: git-web, I take it? Not sure if it produces tarballs the way github (and probably gitlab) do.
<maddagaska> Though that wouldn't help with updates.
<DocScrutinizer05> git-daemon
<DocScrutinizer05> "lightweight" stuff
<maddagaska> Okay, probably no tarballs then.
* maddagaska smiles
<DocScrutinizer05> the irony: *I* created ee repo ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05> with NFC what I did
* maddagaska laughs
<DocScrutinizer05> well, on request, I should add
<DocScrutinizer05> I still rather want to steer clear of git
<DocScrutinizer05> or wrap it in shellscripts
<maddagaska> Depending on how you're using it (e.g. no forced pushes) that could be feasible.
<Wizzup> I am not sure if shell scripts would add anything over the normal git interface.
<DocScrutinizer05> I prefer 10 times rsync over one git command
<Wizzup> Just spend some time learning git. Most of it is really simple.
<DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: at leastt they would fix parameters hardcoded, and have reasonable names
<maddagaska> Wizzup: Good point actually- if there's no forced rebases I think git pull will handle happily...
<maddagaska> *forced pushes
<DocScrutinizer05> I had a one-day experience with git, trying to change ONE CHAR in a file. Ended with me learning for hours about rebase and whatnot
<Wizzup> 'git add', 'git pull', 'git push' are pretty simple, you likely don't need to work with branches
<Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: then you were likely doing it wrong
<DocScrutinizer05> hahaha, exactly
<Wizzup> rebase is very useful, but not needed by almost everyone who uses it
<Wizzup> who uses git*
<DocScrutinizer05> and that's the reasion why I don't like git
* maddagaska nods
<Wizzup> fai enough
<Wizzup> fair enough*
<maddagaska> Yeah, if you're just using the very basics there's a lot of stuff you probably shouldn't ever look at.
<DocScrutinizer05> and a lot of stuff I shouldn't do even when not touching any git command
<DocScrutinizer05> git is unforgiving
<DocScrutinizer05> as long as you do *exactly* the right workflow / sequence of gitr clone, pull, checkout, checkin, push, rebase, sync, kissmyass, you're totally fine, toucgh a file with an editor at the wrong moment and you are in 7th hell of git
<wpwrak> you just need to learn a few "undo" commands :) git tells you when you're about to enter hell, so just turn around in time :)
<DocScrutinizer05> and THEN you *really* need to *know* git to recover
<maddagaska> That's something I would never argue with.
<maddagaska> Recovering from failed rebase is... fun.
<wpwrak> naw, you google for the problem. there's always a nice answer on stackexchange
<DocScrutinizer05> GOOGLE for simple stuff? I got real work to do
<wpwrak> if getting out of hell is "simple stuff" for you, i worry ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> no, getting into hell is way too simple
<Wizzup> maddagaska: it's just $EDITOR + git add + git rebase --continue
<maddagaska> Wizzup: I ran into a fun one before where the conflict was over nothing.
<maddagaska> I can't recall precisely why, but there were no conflicting files and yet it was a conflict.
* maddagaska coughs
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<maddagaska> Uh, this probably isn't helping DocScrutinizer05 think kindly of git.
<DocScrutinizer05> maddagaska: sounds like what I ran into
<Wizzup> so just git add + git rebase --continue?
<maddagaska> Wizzup: Nothing to add, but it turns out the right answer was git rebase --continue
<maddagaska> I just spent a while double checking to see what the conflict was, then second guessing myself because... surely nothing is not a conflict?
<DocScrutinizer05> I edited one file (added a space! just for test) and then all hell broke loose. with conflicts and stuff. I reverted the change but that didn't help eiother of course
<maddagaska> Anyway, gotta dash. Just joined because I'm muchly looking forward to the Neo900!
<DocScrutinizer05> let's see how many time I again wasted for git
* maddagaska smiles
<Wizzup> DocScrutinizer05: focus on understanding the basics rather than ranting more? :)
* maddagaska does think it pays off after a little learning- much shallower learning curve than vim
<maddagaska> (that's not saying much)
* maddagaska really dashing now
<DocScrutinizer05> no way, I focus on steering clear of that (for me pretty useless) stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> and I'll continue to pester wpwrak about the right commandline to paste into terminal whenever I need something git-related
<DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: look, I'm _not_ using git on a daily basis. So all the learning I did in the past got lost and forgotten, and the only thing that stucked was a clear memory how useless this whole learning been, and how much it slowed down really simple things like getting a file from a server for me
<DocScrutinizer05> get stuck*
<DocScrutinizer05> then there's also data amplification, cloning a whole repo for a single 238 byte file
<DocScrutinizer05> which I consider pretty insane unless you *really* want a copy of the complete stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> git is clearly the versatile (and smart?) alternative for tarballs. Just that not everything belongs into a tarball together with _all_ other faintly related data
* DocScrutinizer05 idly mubles that varaha docs got rsynced, not managed under git
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: i didn't put any temp files or such in the repo. all that's there is stuff you really want to have.
<DocScrutinizer05> I say *my* kicad would do that, though
<wpwrak> it'll generate temp files, sure. but they don't automatically go into the repo. if you want to add a file to the repo, you need to tell git explicitly. (git add <filename>)
<DocScrutinizer05> and yes, of course once you cloned anyway, fetching a tiny new file doesn't introduce new overhead. But sometimes you might want to upload (push?) only a little file while you messed with a lot of giles in the repo which you do _not_ want to push
<wpwrak> git commit <the-one-file-you-messed-with> :)
<DocScrutinizer05> give me an abstarction layer that implements a rysn API over git and I'll happily use it
<wpwrak> for the concept: when you commit and such, this goes to your local copy of the repo. so nobody sees what you do there. you can also roll back changes and such.
<wpwrak> then you git push all your accumulated local commits to the remote repo (assuming we're talking about a traditional setup with a central "master")
<DocScrutinizer05> it's just way too easy to fiorget checkout before editing, so a commit (or push) will block chunks like...
<DocScrutinizer05> afaik
<DocScrutinizer05> I simply want to *) get files *) do with them whatever I like, and eventually *) provide a few selected (at time of provide) files again
<DocScrutinizer05> and "do with them whatever I like" should _not_ involve any git commands
<DocScrutinizer05> but everything else *nix allows
<wpwrak> (checkout) in git you don't need to "check out" a file for editing. you just make the changes, then commit. if you're unsure if you have made unintended changes, you can see what has changed with git diff
<DocScrutinizer05> it takes way too much discipline to do commits in a consistent way
<DocScrutinizer05> and aiui e.g adding a new file already needs some different command than a mere commit
<DocScrutinizer05> dunno what would be needed to ad a complete directory, and I guess I could come up with other more weird scenarios
<wpwrak> git add <directory> adds the directory and all files inside (so, if you use this, make sure to remove anything you don't want in the repo)
<DocScrutinizer05> so it seems I actually want to cp -a git-dir myworkdir, then do what I need to do in myworkdir, and eventually cp -a myworkdir git-dir&&commit
<DocScrutinizer05> aah, see? cp -a myworkdir git-dir&&commit already fails when I added stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> exactly my concern about commit discipkline
<DocScrutinizer05> when I create dirs, I rarely bother about git add them
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<DocScrutinizer05> obviously I can't use git without massively changing the workflow I'm used to
<wpwrak> yes, using revision control requires some adaptation
<DocScrutinizer05> which I don't like since I don't need nor want it
<Pali> if you need versioned files, then some vcs-like system is the best approach
<DocScrutinizer05> I worjked on computers since 40 years without using any version control for anything other than precisely program sourcecode
<Pali> if you do not need versioning or history, or access/merge to them from more places, then no real reason
<DocScrutinizer05> yep
<Pali> I like ability to see deep into history who and where changed which line and why... and for this is git really good tool
<Pali> also git is created for distributed development, or doing (atomic) changes on same for from more places by more people
<Pali> via merging changes
<DocScrutinizer05> a futile approach when you work with binary files and your "version control" are backups
<Pali> and this is really useful when more people touching same files and need to be sure that "conflics" are resolved correctly
<DocScrutinizer05> this implies there's even a *concept* of "conflict"
<Pali> yes, and in git is
<DocScrutinizer05> in e.g pdf files there's not really
<DocScrutinizer05> nwetiher in .doc, nor younameit
<Pali> depends on how you look at it
<Pali> if two people edit same sentence but differently, you need to know who "wins"
<Pali> this is a conflict
<DocScrutinizer05> there's no way to look at pdf in a way so a "conflict"! could get "resolved"
<DocScrutinizer05> neither is in e.g. silego files which have a checksum
<Pali> resolving conflicts needs to have merge algorithm
<Pali> and if there is no merge algorihtm for distributed changes, then operator must resolve it
<DocScrutinizer05> and I even doubt KiCAD files could resolve conflicts as defined in git concept
<DocScrutinizer05> git clearly is centerede around (primarilly C) program sourcecode. It's very poor at handling any other filetypes
<Pali> conflict is resolved by merge algorithm... if merge algorithm fails (or there is none for current file, like KiCAD) then "operator" needs to somehow (manually) solve it
<Pali> git have merge algorithm only for text files
<DocScrutinizer05> my point, git is not meant for generic collaboration. And for sure it doesn't add benefit for my workflow
<Pali> but via external tools you can add external program for doing 3way merge (or recursive merge) also of other file types
<DocScrutinizer05> git is a tool for developing program sourcode
<Pali> I'm not saying it is good for everybody... I just say what git can do :-)
<wpwrak> some changes to kicad files are pretty readable, e.g., this is my cleanup of a capacitor symbol: https://neo900.org/git/?p=ee;a=blobdiff;f=hw/neo900.lib;h=1014e9ba785bc5126aaa414ded3f9f8d52f96ad6;hp=abef1d2114a80126bb14c70dec0c609bb41b1c5a;hb=2ac939739e3db21a502efcf143d6f0ae108e33f7;hpb=e5d38502a212e0757ceb6f403170461651771cc7
<DocScrutinizer05> I know what gitr can do
<wpwrak> (sorry for the shitty link - that's git-daemon ...)
<Pali> as by default it can merge only text files, it is by default only for text files (like source code)
<DocScrutinizer05> bottom line: I won't learn git just to upload/download files from our server
<Pali> anyway, PDF format is also plain text if you unpack it
<Pali> so you can edit PDF file in vim :-)
<Pali> vim as PDF editor for *true* hackers :P
<DocScrutinizer05> I even can edit ELF in vim when I bin2hex it
<Pali> but this is without any bin2hexing
<DocScrutinizer05> if the result is of any use is a different question
<Pali> but first is needed to "unpack" PDF file
<hellekin> git is a great tool to write any document, not just code.
<Pali> but still you have valid PDF file which can be viewed in PDF reader
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly guys. Do you think this is changing my notion?
<hellekin> jaromil is using it for his thesis. Markdown + pandoc, and bam, you got LaTeX, PDF, whatever you like.
<Pali> what, using vim for editing PDF? :D
<Pali> this is joke for true hackers...
<hellekin> Pali: markdown to edit, PDF is one of many possible outputs
<Pali> anyway, I really edited some PDF files in text editors...
<hellekin> markdown+git is also what we used to produce http://book.costoffreedom.cc
<Pali> I'm using plain TeX for documents...
<DocScrutinizer05> I gonna copy stuff out of this git-dir to my workdir, mess with it to my liking using KiCAD, converter, eagle, vom, mv(1), mkdir(1), rm(1), rsync, whatnot. And if I got something to provide, I'll upload it to neo900/stuff and wpwrak may feel free to check it in to git
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm not going to resolve any conflicts in .brd files or whatever, neither will I learn git so it doesn't hamper my workflow, since learning git already does
<wpwrak> before you make any changes. please coordinate so that we don't edit the same file
<wpwrak> as you observed, merge conflicts get messy if two people edit the same schematics sheet. so that's not something you want to risk.
<DocScrutinizer05> will do
<wpwrak> also, before editing, make sure you have the latest state of the repo: git pull incorporates all the changes
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm fully aware of this, and I also am rather sure git won't resolve a conflict for us if that happened
<DocScrutinizer05> ok, git pull is sth I may memeorize
<DocScrutinizer05> I had a pretty workable approach for actually merging work results in eagle, but... you know... "no edits on schematics by anybody but a single person"... so this wasn't even considered
<DocScrutinizer05> for a few corner stones about that solution: there's "export to script" in eagle. And for 'conflicts' there are variants in schematics and a lot of unused layers in layout
<DocScrutinizer05> so if e.g. a trace in layout seen changes, you could move the obsolete trace to layer N+10 and the new trace to layer N+20
<DocScrutinizer05> then for resolve you simply move either layer N+10 or N+20 to N again
<DocScrutinizer05> which is a nobrainer in eagle
<DocScrutinizer05> btw this approach was even tangible by git diff, to quite some extent
<DocScrutinizer05> the script files might use some "prettyprinter" processing to take care for bundling one (and only one) change into one line of "sourcecode"
<DocScrutinizer05> unless we already could deal with that by diff parameters -like -C -A -B et al
<end1> is it still possible getting a neo900
<end1> means: preordering
<hellekin> end1: https://my.neo900.org
<DocScrutinizer05> (scripts, merge) or you simply review the diff beween script of old version and script of new version, and replay it in eagle to apply the changes, possibly step by step
<DocScrutinizer05> since such script basically creates the complete schem/layout from scratch, it's pretty easy to diff end review
<DocScrutinizer05> s/ end / and /
<DocScrutinizer05> well, the plain diff replay won't fly since it doesn't delete old stuff
<DocScrutinizer05> there's a *complete* "session log" in scriptable form in the undo/redo buffer of eagle, alas no direct access to that, to save it
<end1> dis highlights :D
* DocScrutinizer05 suggests regex "end[[:num:]]"
<wpwrak> (also resolved many overlaps by rearranging text or shifting things a little)
* DocScrutinizer05 pukes alittle about kicads moronic subsheet sheet, then shouts "NIIICE"
<end1> actually, end1 is not my real nick
<wpwrak> yes, the current subsheet page is ugly. as are the legend boxes, or the GDC copyright notes scattered all over the place.
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: kudos
<end1> but nickserv doesn't likes me
<DocScrutinizer05> endsor... ?
<wpwrak> so there's definitely some more potential for aesthetic improvement ;-)
<end1> "End" is my favourite, but thats taken on Freenode
<end1> so EndZ
<end1> o.O
<end1> cannot change nickname while banned on channel...mmmh
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, sucks
<end1> but *where* am i banned
<DocScrutinizer05> /part
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<DocScrutinizer05> seems you found the chan :-)
<EndZ> #dri-devel
<EndZ> wtf
<EndZ> but...why?!
<EndZ> finally.
<wpwrak> anyway, off for some shopping.
<EndZ> guess it were some netsplits
<EndZ> DocScrutinizer05: i think got someone into buying a neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> EndZ: might be /mode +q ~$a:*
<EndZ> dunno
<EndZ> first i thought it was #zsh because i recommended someone the zsh "expert" mode which was an endless loop ^^'
<DocScrutinizer05> there's a "/msg chanserv why" or whatever command that may help in that situation
<pigeons> no its what doc says above almost always
<pigeons> should be able to rejoin
<EndZ> y
<EndZ> using irc now for a few years, never happened before o.O
<DocScrutinizer05> /msg chanserv help why
<DocScrutinizer05> alas still need to iterate trhough all channels
<DocScrutinizer05> +q is the most common cause for not being able to change your nick
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<DocScrutinizer05> msg chanserv why
<DocScrutinizer05> oops sorry
<DocScrutinizer05> (/msg chanserv why) meh, prolly not helpful either
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<DocScrutinizer05> usual answer: -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation.
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<DocScrutinizer05> totally unrelated, still maybe useful: https://freenode.net/news/nickserv-is-your-friend
<DocScrutinizer05> wow¡ kicad has one file per schematics *sheet*? funny¡
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: when are we ready for real review&edit?
<DocScrutinizer05> reading through the https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/neo900-toc-Chie1aiw.pdf I already spotted quite a few things that are easy fixes (e.g. mics to LOWER, since we got codec there), and a few more that need some sparring before we can solve them
<DocScrutinizer05> apropos mics, probably I should write an own minimalistic whitepaper about those. what to consider about their implementation and details of the actual mechanical implementation in Neo900 which differs quite a lot from N900
<DocScrutinizer05> in short it's pretty simple: in N900 we have that hole and fancy tube in bottom case shell plastic, plus the chamber in kbd frame. In Neo900 we will replace all that by a hole at the border between spaceframe and bottom case shell and a rubber ring around mic forming the chamber together with UPPER (S3) as 'ceiling' and LOWER (S2) as 'floor'
<DocScrutinizer05> tricky: which volume does the chamber need, and which diameter and length has the aperture hole cylinder
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<DocScrutinizer05> both factors together determine the resonance frequency and Q of the acoustic system around mics
<DocScrutinizer05> I hope a rubber foam ring will result in a prety low Q, so the resonance frequency becomes less relevant after all
<DocScrutinizer05> subject to further evaluation and tests anyway
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<DocScrutinizer05> we also *might* recycle the case shell hole and tube structure for one of the mics, but that's qzustinable purpose for good balanced stereo recordings
<DocScrutinizer05> questionable*
<DocScrutinizer05> instead of hole between spacerframe and case shell, we also might go for holes drilled into UPPER, in the area that's always covered by display halve
<DocScrutinizer05> this would actually introduce a nice side effect of changing directivity of the mics by sliding open the device (sliding up display)
<DocScrutinizer05> also mechanically way simpler to accomplish
<Pali> "Certainly git requires you to think more like a functional programmer, where all your data is immutable, so if you change something, it has a different identity." good observation from Larry Wall
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<DocScrutinizer05> LOL >>Ein Spezialeinsatzkommando, das **zufällig in der Nähe gewesen** sei, habe die Verfolgung aufgenommen.<<
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how many special forces units are statistically to be found per square km in Germany
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<DocScrutinizer05> wow, git log is pretty overwhelming. I guess saves and git commit is 50% of work, unless you got shortcuts ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer05> OT: #melaniaplag
<DocScrutinizer05> (wait a while until that goes viral ;-D - I just made it up)
<DocScrutinizer05> >>The Trump campaign is now blaming Hillary Clinton for Melania’s plagiarism scandal<< rotfl
<hellekin> DocScrutinizer05: install tig for git log frontend that's simple and easy to use
<hellekin> or rtfm (but really, tig rocks)
<DocScrutinizer05> ta
<DocScrutinizer05> :-) looks good
<DocScrutinizer05> that's already a first step into the direction of the requested "integration of git into mc" :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> 'h' is great, to start with
<DocScrutinizer05> ok, this *might* get me into using git
<DocScrutinizer05> a little at least
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<DocScrutinizer05> still, handing out http://xkcd.com/1296/ with a grin
<DocScrutinizer05> this might be convenient for the one who pushes stuff. For somebody just planning to *use* stuff it's pretty hard to tell which version their edits are based on
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (real review/edit) something thursday-ish. i have a few more passes for remaining details. and i'll clean out things that are trivially undesirable. like overlapping stuff (it got much better after i updated the caps, but there's still some) and + joints.
<DocScrutinizer05> ok, thanks
<wpwrak> (git log) yeah, it's a lot of almost-but-not-quite-mechanical changes :)
<DocScrutinizer05> (which version) prolly I need a logfile recording the `git pull` I do
<wpwrak> let's see what that tig thing does ...
<wpwrak> i use gitk for graphically hopping around in logs. though it's more interesting when there and branches and stuff.
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (trump) have you seen this comparison yet ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcbiGsDMmCM
<DocScrutinizer05> hehehehehe
<DocScrutinizer05> >>The Trump campaign is now blaming Hillary Clinton for Melania’s plagiarism scandal<< awesome, isn't it?
<wpwrak> i'm not quite sure what sort of logic they use to do that, but i guess in the trumpiverse, it's possible :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah
<DocScrutinizer05> it's the logic of overlightspeed
<DocScrutinizer05> only the overly bright understand it
<DocScrutinizer05> it's pretty ironical how they do exactly what they blame Clinton doing, by the very act of doing so
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe the average stupid stops thinking at "somebody demeans others, CHECK. Trump teams says it's Clinton doing so, CHECK. .... err what was the question? aa right, Hillary is BAD"
<DocScrutinizer05> an US (ex) democratic mayor said (in TV) it's not about Trump basically, but about shocking parliament to get them listening to the people instead of lobbyists. However sane I consider the goal, I strongly question the means is appropriate
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<DocScrutinizer05> have you heard about Trump's largest golf green of the world, somewhere in err Scotland or England?
<DocScrutinizer05> he even corrupted local politicians, to allow that totally nuts project
<DocScrutinizer05> about any arbitrary aspect of that mad thing is as bad as it possibly gets, right down to cutting water supply for next city/village
<wpwrak> trump is to politics a bit like what "pro wrestling" is to sports :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah
<wpwrak> to be honest, i
<wpwrak> 'm more worried about clinton. everything indicated that she'd be quite nasty. i sometimes wonder if trump is just a smoke screen for her.
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<DocScrutinizer05> meh, we're used to nasty US presidents. Not though to outright mad ones, even doubleWho was more in his sane mind than Trump
<DocScrutinizer05> I prefer government by however sinister rationale over government by momentary impulse of a lunatic
<DocScrutinizer05> particularly when said lunatic has a long record of having rather odd momentary impulse ideas
<DocScrutinizer05> his racist and fascistoid statements of late don't help to make me feel any less concerned about that
<DocScrutinizer05> to bring it to the point, I'd not be surprised to find him promoting (and possibly eventually doing) totally nuts stuff like dropping a nuke at Northern Korea
<luke-jr> >implying Clinton is any less insane :p
<luke-jr> at least Trump seems to have a good vice president, although I'm not sure I'd use that as an argument to vote for him
<DocScrutinizer05> clinton's vice doesn't look like he was particularly evil either
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<DocScrutinizer05> (Clinton less insane) well, at least I'm rather sure she wouldn't brag with it (NK nuke) but rather do it in a way so it *looks* like NK's own nukes went off by accident
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<DocScrutinizer05> I also doubt Clinton would have missed the problem of missing bricklayers for big wall to Mexico when all Mexicans get deported first
<luke-jr> IMO it's a good thing that Trump is too incompetent to accomplish bad ideas
<hellekin> both Clinton and Trump want to go to war with Iran. Dumb shits.
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, poor america
<hellekin> luke-jr: Trump is dumb, but not incompetent
<hellekin> remember, he's uber-rich.
<luke-jr> DocScrutinizer05: need somewhere to move, and I'll be gone ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm absolutely sure he accomplishes what he wants to, particularly when he's US president
<luke-jr> could be worse.. like Germany ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> well, unless it's something reasonable that's not easily accomplished at all
<DocScrutinizer05> (too dumb to accomplish) he accomplished that "largest golf green of the world" over here, despite it's illegal and bad in so many aspects
<DocScrutinizer05> and stupid too
<DocScrutinizer05> and as usual he's demeaning everybody who gets in the way, like "this man is a pig, somebody needs to tear down his house. You mustn't allow him to live like that"
<DocScrutinizer05> Trump's idea of what to do with a regular farm
<DocScrutinizer05> ooh I was wrong, not the largest but "world's greatest golf course"
<pigeons> "I know more about golf than anybody."
<DocScrutinizer05> sure, his lack of self esteem is scary ;-)
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<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: how about this for our beloved switches ? https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/switch-semiclean-No2me7ah.png
<DocScrutinizer05> looks great
<wpwrak> let's use this style then ...
<DocScrutinizer05> :-)
<wpwrak> there's something reassuring when git says: rewrite hw/neo900_SS_1.sch (62%)
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