DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services]
DocScrutinizer05 has joined #neo900
raoulzecat has joined #neo900
sparetire has quit [Quit: sparetire]
opa-ben has joined #neo900
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
vahe has joined #neo900
vahe has quit [Quit: Leaving]
raoulzecat has joined #neo900
xman has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
raoulzecat has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
jonsger has joined #neo900
hashcore has joined #neo900
tomeff has joined #neo900
tomeff has quit [Client Quit]
Kero has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
hashcore has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
hashcore has joined #neo900
modem_ has joined #neo900
tomeff has joined #neo900
modem_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
mzki has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
modem_ has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
tomeff has quit [Read error: No route to host]
tomeff has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has quit [Client Quit]
louisdk has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
hashcore has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
opa-ben has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
tomeff has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
tomeff has joined #neo900
paulk-collins has quit [Quit: Quitte]
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jonwil_ has joined #neo900
Kero_ has joined #neo900
illwieckz_ has joined #neo900
mzki_ has joined #neo900
Kero has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jonwil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
illwieckz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
quatrox has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mzki has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jonwil_ is now known as jonwil
quatrox has joined #neo900
afics has left #neo900 [#neo900]
tomeff has quit [Quit: tomeff]
tomeff has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
freemangordon_ has joined #neo900
ashneo76 has joined #neo900
opa-ben has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a preliminary sidenote, resuming on my previous note about investor: looks extremely good :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: we have a job for you :-) We need a "FOSS" OS on N(eo)900 to already demonstrate there *is* a working OS available
louisdk has joined #neo900
<Arch-TK>
If I had the device / the time to find out what exactly it needs and more time I could do that.
<DocScrutinizer05>
how much for installing a 100% FOSS maemo built from source on a N900 and demonstrate what's working without proprietary blobs, and then show how a user would import the probably needed blobs to make a complete working fullgrown maemo?
<DocScrutinizer05>
for a start a X11 display possibly even with hildon desktop would be already fine
<DocScrutinizer05>
bencoh: yep
<freemangordon_>
hmm, we'd need binary blobs for that, unless HW accell is disabled
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon_: nota bene we want a paid work
<freemangordon_>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're not supposed to do that for free
<freemangordon_>
hmm, I have to think about that, but I am afraid I don;t have the free time needed to dedicate on such a task
<freemangordon_>
but, lemme think about it
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, just see how much free time you can allocate and we#ll decide if it's enough
<freemangordon_>
maybe a joint effort from 2-3 guys would be better
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, find partners, Neo900 UG is not averse
<freemangordon_>
I promise nothing :)
<freemangordon_>
will see what can be done. Is there a dealine?
<DocScrutinizer05>
you know better who's competent and fits into such a team
<freemangordon_>
*deadline
<DocScrutinizer05>
no deadline :-)
<freemangordon_>
ok, define one then ;)
<freemangordon_>
end of june?
<DocScrutinizer05>
but please don't delay too much, I'd love to see an answer in next 7 days
<freemangordon_>
ok
<bencoh>
now everyone, /clear, this "no deadline" line just never existed
<DocScrutinizer05>
we will think about schedule requirements when we see what can get done at all
<freemangordon_>
DocScrutinizer05: I'll think about how that can be organized and will discuss with you further
<DocScrutinizer05>
generally rather speed up the process. If more team members help, get more :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
just in case you wonder: >>I would also suggest that you move forward by porting a few OS's and getting a few developers involved; I could also fund this side<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
[quote of a source not to be named yet]
<freemangordon_>
hmm, importing from FW image is not something I would recommend
<freemangordon_>
but I guess we should find a way to "make up" a package from binaries in the rootfs
<DocScrutinizer05>
did you ever look into freetz? they basically do what we need: they use the AVM fritzbox FOSS sources and build a system, then during build the 'fiasco image' of AVM gets downloaded and extracted and the proprietary drivers e.g. for DSL and WLAN get integrated into the otherwise built-from-scratch system
<bencoh>
how would you "build maemo" from scratch/source?
<freemangordon_>
bencoh: what is teh problem?
<bencoh>
is there an autobuilder button "compute deps and rebuild" or something?
<DocScrutinizer05>
so they don't distribute nonfree stuff but leave it up to user to fetch those blobs her/himself
<freemangordon_>
why autobuilder?
<bencoh>
I dunno, because it autobuilds packages and fetches deps where needed
<bencoh>
what would you do? display a build deps tree and start at the root?
<freemangordon_>
wouldn;t debootstrap do the job?
<bencoh>
from source? not that I know of, no
<bencoh>
debootstrap fetches binary packages
<freemangordon_>
why source, we have repository.maemo.org
<bencoh>
you'd need to push FOSS version of every package in rootfs there, then
<bencoh>
s/rootfs/stock/
<freemangordon_>
it is there already
<DocScrutinizer05>
we need to demonstrate we can *build* an OS for a Neo900 proto (which is N900 so far)
<freemangordon_>
hmm, ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
we even need to *provide* that build which is _not_ the stock fremantle maemo5
<freemangordon_>
ok, got it
<bencoh>
freemangordon_: hmm, we don't have our own build from source in the repos, afaict :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the idea being that later on we can provide this as OS for Neo900
<freemangordon_>
yes, as this is debian based :)
<freemangordon_>
DocScrutinizer05: does the "distro" shall include toolchain as well?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I need a build where we can state "see, it already 'works', we only need to adapt a few things which are unique in Neo900, then users can download this very image to Neo900 as they now can download it to N900"
<freemangordon_>
what is not clear to me is - do you need fiasko or a system which builds fiasko?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, actually for now (N900 proto) we will exploit fiasco. On Neo900 we will boot from uSD
<bencoh>
would vanilla debian do?
<freemangordon_>
bencoh: we don;t have working h-d for debian
<freemangordon_>
because of gtk3
<bencoh>
debian dropped gtk2?
<freemangordon_>
no, but gtk2 in maemo is patched a lot
<bencoh>
ah
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon_: consider the Neo900 maemo build shall also run on beagleboard for example
<freemangordon_>
DocScrutinizer05: still, I don;t understand the requirement - is it a system, which pulls sources from $somewhere, builds .debs and creates a distro on fiasco/mmc or fiasco/mmc image
<DocScrutinizer05>
not mandatory, but as a perspective
<DocScrutinizer05>
a build system
<freemangordon_>
ok
<freemangordon_>
it is clear now
<DocScrutinizer05>
think of hosting that stuff on neo900.org - also not mandatory but a perspective
<freemangordon_>
DocScrutinizer05: also, what about the toolchain? Shall it be build as well or pre-build toolchain is ok?
<DocScrutinizer05>
prebuilt is ok
<freemangordon_>
ok
<freemangordon_>
then, some scripts in SB should do the job IMO
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually it's sufficient when user can e.g. download a VM and start a make in it
<freemangordon_>
ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
we don't need to build on server
<freemangordon_>
sure
jonwil has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.39/20151103191810]]
<freemangordon_>
though, for the real-life, I don;t think bulding from source is something the lusers should do
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, we can provide binaries for all the free stuff
<freemangordon_>
for example - QT build takes ~1 hour on quad core
<freemangordon_>
same for microb
<DocScrutinizer05>
user will nevertheless do some "building" to integrate the nonfree blobs
<freemangordon_>
etc.
<freemangordon_>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
but to start, just see how far we get without tackling the blob issue
<freemangordon_>
DocScrutinizer05: maybe create some UR doc, to have a common base to discuss on
<DocScrutinizer05>
blob integration is phase2
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, I'm terrible at producing such docs. I can help
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you write up a draft, I'll proofread and edit it
<freemangordon_>
I am terrible on docs as well, maybe ask you PR department :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
if only we had one
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway the background is: our customers don't feel confortable with the "pick the OS of your choice", they want us to provide something
<DocScrutinizer05>
so we need something to show off
<freemangordon_>
ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
with the perspective to actually provide that thing later on
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 UG supports but isn't directly involved in development
<freemangordon_>
ok, will think about how and if I can help
<freemangordon_>
gtg now, cya
<DocScrutinizer05>
thanks a lot. We really need you (and pali, I guess)
<DocScrutinizer05>
cya
<DocScrutinizer05>
gotta go too
freemangordon_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
hashcor has joined #neo900
sparetire has joined #neo900
vakkov_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
vakkov has joined #neo900
<jackhill>
If I don't want to use non-free blobs, will the Neo900 work without them or are they manditory
Kero_ is now known as Kero
<DocScrutinizer51>
they are supposed to be optional
<jackhill>
cool, thanks
<DocScrutinizer51>
however for some functions you'll need blobs, e.g opengl-es 3D acceleration, WLAN
<DocScrutinizer51>
SHR for example works without
<DocScrutinizer51>
for WLAN we don't have a executable but some initialization data to send to the subsystem, so this doesn't really qualify for the "closed blob" thing
<DocScrutinizer51>
see our FAQ
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
hashcor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
ecloud_ is now known as ecloud
louisdk has joined #neo900
tomeff has quit [Quit: tomeff]
rootman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
xman has joined #neo900
modem_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tomeff has joined #neo900
mzki_ has quit [Quit: leaving]
Pali has joined #neo900
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
akaWolf has joined #neo900
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
varu|zZz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
varu|zZz has joined #neo900
SylvieLorxu has joined #neo900
modem_ has joined #neo900
louisdk has joined #neo900
rjeffries has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
opa-ben has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
paulk-collins has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
vakkov has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
vakkov has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
copy from our internal channel: >> werner [not almesberger] says LEDs are D65 6500 kelvin, but he will check with a meter <<
<wpwrak>
(c) kewl. there is a 6500 K version, with the same CRI as the 5700 K version i currently have.
opa-ben has joined #neo900
lobito has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
* enyc
likes 5300k ;p
<enyc>
due to availability of 'new old stock' Tridonic ECO dimmable ballasts, I put in Philips Graphica Pro lamps in one of my workrooms =)
lobito has joined #neo900
<enyc>
98CRI =)
* enyc
really interested to know, how you would go about sourcing reasonable quality/consistency (but not silly expensive) 12v (or 24v) led strip, 3528 leds or 5050 leds... i.e. not individual leds but 'tape'/strip
<enyc>
you can get the stucff ''cheap'' but theres no consistency =(
<DocScrutinizer05>
yep
<enyc>
so, what *approach* to trying to get consistency at reasonable price with decent part spec ??
<DocScrutinizer05>
nfc
<DocScrutinizer05>
get a bin directly from manufacturer
<DocScrutinizer05>
odds are you can get a reel with LEDs of one bin, which would be only a maybe 2500 components
<DocScrutinizer05>
unbinned crap is cheaper of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
no idea how the differences inb one production run emerge
<DocScrutinizer05>
but good brand manufs do decent binning anyway