<jasom>
hmm looks like the asn.1 parsing has been merged into cl-net-snmp, which is quickloadable
<mrcode_>
hmm
<mrcode_>
worth trying
<mrcode_>
seems to work just fine
<mrcode_>
thx jasom housel
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<remexre>
is there a type specifier I'm missing for lists of a type? e.g. (list fixnum) ?
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<Bike>
no. that type is not expressible in the lisp type system, other than using satisfies.
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<remexre>
is there a reason why? I guess I can just do do-list + check-type instead of a single check-type, but /shrug
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<LdBeth>
Because list is indistinguishable from cons
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<Bike>
recursive types get kind of weird with subtyping.
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<aeth>
LdBeth: not quite true. nil is a list but not a cons.
<aeth>
so a list holding only fixnums would be (or nil a-cons-holding-only-fixnums) and the latter would be complicated because if it's a list, then the cdr would be the cons itself recursively and if it's a tree you'd want both the car and the cdr to be either nil or the item (or perhaps not including nil)
<LdBeth>
aeth: clhs says the type of nil is cons :)
<aeth>
(typep nil 'cons) => NIL
<aeth>
nil is a boolean, a list (the empty list (not "the empty cons")), null (not nil, nothing is the type nil), and a symbol. Maybe a few other things.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<stylewarning>
Good evening
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<stylewarning>
It doesn’t appear SBCL is keeping my let-bound (UNSIGNED-BYTE 64) unboxed
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<stylewarning>
v curious
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<flip214>
stylewarning: paste?
<stylewarning>
I don't have a minimal example yet, it's in the middle of a bunch of numerical code, but it looks something like (let ((x 1)) ... (setf x (* x n))); with everything appropriately declared
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<seok>
I have function to run node.js programs
<seok>
(defun node (cmd &key (args '()))
<seok>
When I run a puppeteer node application, then want to terminate it with uiop:terminate-process
<seok>
the process is terminated but the chromium session is not
<seok>
How can I fix this?
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<flip214>
Can I tell YASON to expect ALISTs recursively? ie. (YASON:ENCODE-ALIST `(("a" . (("b" . (("c" . "d"))))))? I get the error «"d" is not of type list»
<flip214>
I guess because the inner ALISTs are being encoded a lists (to json vectors)
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<flip214>
perhaps I need to write my own streaming encoder...
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<shrdlu68>
seok: What do you mean by session? Session as in a collection of process groups?
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<flip214>
YASON:ENCODE-ARRAY-ELEMENT works by using YASON:ENCODE. But that means that I can't control further recursion -- I can't encode the array elements myself!
<flip214>
The only idea I have is to use the unexported NEXT-AGGREGATE-ELEMENT -- is there a cleaner way?
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<jdz>
flip214: isn't there a special variable to bind?
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<seok>
shrdlu68: the chromium application is not terminated
<seok>
puppeteer is a node library which uses chromium
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<shrdlu68>
seok: Does it fork new processes?
<seok>
probably
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<shrdlu68>
In that case, the children would probably still remain alive when you kill the parent.
<seok>
yes, I am trying to figure out how to kill the children also
<flip214>
jdz: none that I can see.
<seok>
if I run node through cmd, I can kill chromium by ctrl+c, will sending character input stream on uiop:process-info-stream have the same effect?
<no-defun-allowed>
No, C-c is handled in a way by something in the terminal emulator or shell I don't know the specifics of that tells it to send a signal to the child process.
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<flip214>
seok: UIOP:TERMINATE-PROCESS
<flip214>
but that has the bad effect of killing all other open tabs as well
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<seok>
flip214: as stated in my initial question, uiop:terminate-process is not killing chromium
<seok>
which is called through puppeteer on a node program
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<seok>
I have a crawler, trying to implement a timeout, but since terminate-process is not closing chromium session when it is timedout, I am getting arbitrary number of chromium sessions open
<seok>
Haha
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<shrdlu68>
You probably want to get the process group ID and sent a SIGTERM to that.
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<shrdlu68>
seok: If you use SBCL, you could just use sb-ext:run-program. sb-ext:process-kill has a :process-group argument.
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<sthalik>
hey
<pjb>
yeh
<sthalik>
is there a C++ preprocessor mangling hyphens to something else?
<sthalik>
pjb, nice to see you still around
<pjb>
sthalik: not AFAIK. You could write one.
<pjb>
But there would be a problem: you could not write: int a=1,b=2,a-b=a-b;
<pjb>
You'd have to write int a=1,b=2,a-b=(a)-b; or some variant.
<sthalik>
that's acceptable
<no-defun-allowed>
a - b
<pjb>
That would break all existing code. And -(x) instead of -x :-)
<sthalik>
leading hyphen can be special-cased
<no-defun-allowed>
~x (* well, I guess no one really uses -FOO as a name in Lisp *)
<pjb>
On the other hand, if you don't stay at the level of the preprocessor, since we have to declare things, we could parse a-b only if there's a variable, type, or function, etc declared with the a-b name.
<no-defun-allowed>
`return *p/*q;` is my favourite
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<hjudt>
is there a library that returns a list of subdirectories recursively? something like the linux command 'find -type d'?
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<sthalik>
CL-FAD
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<alexanderbarbosa>
oh the horror, all those silly braces...
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<jdz>
hjudt: (directory #p"path/to/root/**/")
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<flip214>
jdz: that will also return directories that are reached by _symlink_ in that tree, IIRC ... which might not be what is wanted if the next function is "rmdir"
<hjudt>
thanks, i've used uiop:directory with jdz's pathname specification. that works great, and i can then filter with regexps what i need.
<hjudt>
uiop:directory* exactly
<flip214>
hjudt: take care about symlinks!
<jdz>
flip214: at least on SBCL DIRECTORY has a :resolve-symlinks parameter.
<jdz>
CCL has :follow-links)
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<flip214>
jdz: yes, I know. I don't know offhand for UIOP, and either way the call needs to specify something!
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<jdz>
I agree, one must be careful.
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<hjudt>
is there also a function to convert a pathname to a string?
<jdz>
hjudt: NAMESTRING
<hjudt>
thnx
<no-defun-allowed>
ywlcm
<no-defun-allowed>
uh, wrong channel, but sentiment stands: macroexpand pls
<jdz>
your welcome (sic)
<jdz>
That's just my guess.
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* no-defun-allowed
points to arbitrary person
<no-defun-allowed>
their welcome
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<flip214>
ouch. "you are"|"you're" => "your" I can understand (from a typo perspective!), but "they are" => "their" is new to me.
<no-defun-allowed>
In primary school (at about 9 years old) we had to practise they're/their/there.
<edgar-rft>
flip214: you see, on #lisp one can learn something new every day
<no-defun-allowed>
Basically the mnemonic was "This is jdz, they're a jolly good lisper, their welcome is over there"
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<flip214>
no-defun-allowed: if your welcome has a physical location I don't think I want it.
<flip214>
edgar-rft: yeah, reminds me of my proofreader days
<pjb>
flip214: it's not typoes, it's phonemoes! :-)
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<flip214>
is there a speech-to-irc engine in operation?
<pjb>
Yes, most often in the brains of the irc users.
<_death>
hjudt: it is unlikely that you want NAMESTRING. it's not a very useful function, as its output is implementation-defined. it's more likely that you want NATIVE-NAMESTRIGN, a nonstandard function that is supposed to return a platform-defined output. of course, if you want platform independence, you need to do more work.
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<hjudt>
_death: thanks. i suppose since this will only run in linux/sbcl that it doesn't really matter then.
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<_death>
but it does.. sbcl's output is not the same as the what linux expects
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<hjudt>
ok so i'll just use uiop:native-namestring
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<clothespin>
are there any libraries which have presentation types and context sensitive input besides McCLIM?
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<beach>
Why would you not want McCLIM?
<clothespin>
it's a non trivial task to create a backend
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<clothespin>
beach, did you not once tell me that you had an editor running in a clim like ui?
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<beach>
A CLIM-like which is not CLIM? No, I don't have such a thing.
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<clothespin>
well did you at least tell me you had an editor?
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<beach>
Yes, (first) Climacs is a CLIM application. I think it is still operational.
<beach>
But I am working on Second Climacs, which will be much more competent, in particular for editing Common Lisp code.
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<clothespin>
what ui substrate does the second climacs use?
<Oladon_work>
Hehe, that's a clever name, beach
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<beach>
clothespin: I attempted to make it as independent as possible of the GUI, and I think I managed, but it made the code hard to understand. And the only existing GUI uses McCLIM.
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<clothespin>
beach, do you distribute your editor and your debugger?
<beach>
Everything I do is on GitHub, but I haven't made any releases. Second Climacs is not ready for consumption, and the debugger (Clordane)I am thinking will not work in the foreseeable future. The reason for that is that it requires support from the implementation, and it is likely that the only implementation that will support it will be SICL.
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<clothespin>
i look forward to when you post 2nd climacs
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<beach>
I'll keep you posted.
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<clothespin>
has no one successfully finished an interactive backend to McCLIM as clx?
<clothespin>
i think i saw an SDL backend but it seems to give the whole framebuffer to McCLIM
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<beach>
You mean a backend "other than" CLX?
<clothespin>
I mean "as complete as clx"
<beach>
Ah.
<beach>
There have been attempts, and I think they all bitrotted.
<beach>
But the problem is being worked on.
<beach>
If you are interested, you can ask in #clim.
<beach>
As I understand it, |3b| is working on Windows, and needs a backend for it, so he is working on something.
<clothespin>
does anybody answer there?
<beach>
Oh, yes.
<beach>
jackdaniel is the McCLIM maintainer and he is very active.
<aeth>
iirc there was an OpenGL 1.x backend (which was a dated API 15 years ago) that got removed at some point
<jackdaniel>
the reason was (surprise surprise) it didn't work ,)
<aeth>
running on something like OpenGL+SDL2 gets you on (practically) every platform, without a native look+feel, but with some cool visual effects available.
<aeth>
jackdaniel: It might have worked on the original graphics drivers it were tested on, if anyone has 90s hardware laying around :-p
<aeth>
s/it were/it was/
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<namosca>
borodust: hi
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<Inline>
within a simple loop i need a :timeout 1, but for an extended loop i don't heh
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<Inline>
oh nope, forget it
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<Oladon_work>
sjl_: Thanks, that was it
<Inline>
i need a timeout because none of my clauses returns t......
<Inline>
oh man, damn clx and xlib:event-case
<Oladon_work>
Was a good article, and I wanted to share it with a few of my less-experienced devs :)
<Inline>
and i can
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<Inline>
can't explicitly return t at the end of it
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<Inline>
why does koch.lisp work then, it doesn't use any returning clauses too, they are all format clauses (which returns nil)
<Inline>
anyone ?
<Bike>
you haven't meaningfully explained what you're talking about or even asked a question
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<Inline>
i'm trying to get my head around the xlib demo programs in clx, and i also found some similar stuff on the net out of which koch.lisp ( https://fossies.org/linux/clisp/modules/clx/new-clx/demos/koch.lisp ) seems to be pretty similar to the loop constructs i saw in clclock.lisp
<Bike>
so you're asking about that loop on line 101?
<Inline>
but clclock.lisp does not use an event-loop ala xlib, and once you start it you have to kill it via mouse click and i get thrown into the debugger, because it couldn't terminate the loop faithfully
<jasom>
Inline: loop-finish exits th eloop
<Inline>
jasom: yes and it goes afterwards right into the event loop of clx
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<Inline>
jasom: i tried a similar construct here with a few things changed in clclock.lisp and i couldn't get it to work either
<jasom>
right, and that event loop is exited by this line: (#o161 #|q|# (return-from koch-events t))
<jasom>
Inline: where is clclock.lisp?
<Inline>
erm
<Inline>
it's in clx/demo
<Inline>
whatever your clx version.....
<jasom>
and that doesn't parse any events at all
<Inline>
right
<Inline>
i tried to wrap an event-case there
<Inline>
right in the loop itself
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<Inline>
anyway, i have 3 version of clclock.lisp now with events working properly and display too
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<Inline>
finally third version, pretty similar to the second tho
<Inline>
jasom: now i can quit it without getting me thrown into the debugger.....
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<jasom>
FWIW the original koch demo isn't part of the non-clisp clx demos, *and* it's a terrible demo; run it, then cover up part of the window and reveal again; the snowflake isn't redrawn. Also you can't quit until it finishes drawing the snowflake.
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<Inline>
jasom: without the :timeout in even-case it doesn't work (clockface does not get updated), and returning t from anywhere from the event-case is no option, as far as i see, have to recheck it soon
<jasom>
Inline: do you understand why?
<Inline>
jasom: welp, mine gets drawn, as for the quit you might be right, i only quitted it at the end
<Inline>
jasom: understand what exactly ?
<jasom>
Inline: why the timeout is needed?
<Inline>
yes
<jasom>
okay. Any remaining questions?
<Inline>
because my even-case clauses don't return t nowhere
<jasom>
Inline: even if they did, you wouldn't have a working clock
<Inline>
jasom: right, and i was going nuts over it here
<Inline>
lol
<jasom>
if nobody moves your window or presses a key, no event will happen
<Inline>
welp, even if it happens i don't return anything all my clauses return nil
<jasom>
You probably want a shorter timeout, and then redraw by comparing the current time to the last time you drew.
<jasom>
or perhaps keep the long timeout, but check the time in each event
<Inline>
and that was the clue, i read event-case carefully, until it said in the document that even-case does not return when :timeout is nil and all the clauses return nil
<jasom>
whether or not event-case returns is somewhat orthogonal to whether or not you redraw, particularly since you call draw-stuff inside event-case.
<Inline>
that was another hint of getting rid of the explicit (sleep 1) in clclock
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<seok>
shrdlu68: I've been having problems using sb-ext:run-program on windows portacle, hence I've been using uiop:launch-program. Is there no way with uiop version?
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<Inline>
jasom: without draw-stuff in event-case the initial window is only blue
<jasom>
e.g. if you cover and reveal the clock, it will update without the timeout.
<Inline>
ah
<Inline>
nope
<Inline>
it didn't cause anything here, cause i return nil for expose events
<Inline>
jasom: check my examples, and try it without the timeout, you'll see
<jasom>
Inline: it updates for me
<jasom>
literally just your 3rd paste with :timeout nil
<Inline>
jasom: wait
<jasom>
if you cover up the clock with another window, then when you uncover it, it will have updated once.
<jasom>
because it gets an exposure event
<Inline>
jasom: no jasom
<Inline>
jasom: here i can cover and reveal it without the clock face getting updated
<Inline>
jasom: it's like frozen
<jasom>
Inline: which window manager?
<jasom>
it's possible some compositors won't generate new expose events, I guess...
<jasom>
But with kwin on plasma it gets updated once every time it is revealed
<Inline>
jasom: mate on cinnamon i think
<jasom>
so marco?
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<Inline>
jasom: i'm on ubuntu, cinnamon, DE is mate
* jasom
is surprised that it doesn't generate expose events.
<jasom>
but with KDE, it definitely changes time (though you can't ever see it change).
<jasom>
Each time it's uncovered, the time displayed is different
<Inline>
jasom: i think that's why i was going nuts, if it doesn't work in marco and i need an explicit :timeout value......
<Inline>
jasom: i can bring another window on front and then switch back, nothing happens here really without that timeout value
<Inline>
jasom: thought i'm not understanding loops anymore..... i really was desperate
<jasom>
If I had to guess, it's because of compositing; back in the day, each window did not have its own buffer. The xlib commands drew directly to the screen. So, if you cover up your window and then reveal it, the window needs to be redrawn. Modern window managers will have each application draw to an off-screen buffer and then copy that buffer to the screen. This is the first I've heard of no expose events
<jasom>
being generated though.
<Inline>
jasom: felt more and more dumb with each try failing....
<Inline>
lol
<jasom>
Inline: what happens if you put a print statement inside your exposure handler? I assume it only prints out once, even if you cover up the window?
<Inline>
jasom: wait lemme check that
<jasom>
!! do you have transparency effects enabled? Those would mean that the window isn't ever truly covered up, so no expose would probably be unsurprising.
<Inline>
i think i have compositing enabled, tho no idea of transparency
<jasom>
so to see what I'm talking about, put a (draw-stuff) call inside the key-press handler. You will see it update every time you press a key.
<jasom>
even without a timeout.
<Inline>
jah done it
<Inline>
it updates, when i press a key ofc
<Inline>
(otherwise (draw-stuff) in key-press case
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<Inline>
jasom: it updates even without a timeout in that case, but only if you press a key ofc, the auto-looping and redrawing is gone
<Inline>
jasom: so i need the :timeout for some reason, no idea why stuff here does not work like over there, or in any other windowmanager
<jasom>
you do need the timeout, of course, my point was that the update is not directly related to the timeout. Without the timeout you just process events forever, which may, or may not, include updating the display.
<Inline>
jasom: ok then
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<Inline>
jasom: in my case it does not somehow include updating the display, and it bothers me somewhat
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<Inline>
jasom: not sure if there's any bug around or if these effects are just a feature of some windowmanagers
<jasom>
unlike e.g. the gtk event loop, there is no provision for timer events in xlib. The unixy way is to set a signal on a timer to get timeouts
<jasom>
this is behaving exactly as expected.
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<jasom>
The koch snowflake will not update its display either once it enters the event loop; it's a very poorly written demo.
<Inline>
jasom: ok thank you, i'm new to clx and gui, i'm still trying to get my head around it
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<Inline>
jasom: signal handling, multi-threading, coroutines, parallelism etc are all stuff i haven't peeked into yet
<Inline>
jasom: i think i'm on a pretty basic level yet... :(
<jasom>
X11 isn't a particularly pleasant way to do gui programming; even back in the day motif was used rather than bare x11; nowadays you see qt or gtk.
<davr0s_>
how far did people get with LISP / GOFAI ,
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<davr0s_>
was the idea that lisp's homoiconicity would be good for computers to rewrite their own programs
<jasom>
davr0s_: that's a bit off topic here; maybe ##lisp? or #lispcafe?
<White_Flame>
davr0s_: the labels "applied logic programming" for GOFAI, and "applied statistics" for modern machine learning IMO are apt
<Inline>
jasom: i tried Motif too, i have a book in my shelf about Motif, and i tried some stuff, but it's written for C, so no idea with Motif stuff on lisp apart from a little bit of mcclim
<Inline>
jasom: and i'm bad with OOP too :(
<Inline>
still! or yet!
<Inline>
jasom: hope that will change some time
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<pjb>
Inline: you can easily master it, you just have to watch for the class hierarchy (or DAG in the case of CL since we allow multiple inheritance). So when a generic function is called, you should mind methods on the superclasses too.
<Inline>
pjb: i have the basics, but i can't wrap my head around design....
<Inline>
pjb: it's like putting my fingers in a running motor.... hahahaha
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<Inline>
jasom: i think transparency is on as default here over, tho i turned them off in my console by choosing solid colors etc...
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<Inline>
allright, good night all
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<bexx>
how can I skip a test in fiveam?
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