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<dannyboy35>
Hi I’m new to lisp and was wondering what development environment would be suggested? Please don’t say slime lol
<dannyboy35>
I’ve looked into sublime-text
<dannyboy35>
And I may go with that
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<LdBeth>
Then you don’t get as much goodies as using slime
<dannyboy35>
Also would you recommend Roswell for a newbie?
<bmansurov>
o/ Can anyone tell me how I can return from a recursive call? Line 8 here: https://pastebin.com/udgjP4em . (return-from helper (car l)) doesn't seem to do the trick.
<LdBeth>
dannyboy35: do you have previous experience on other programming languages
<dannyboy35>
LdBeth: emacs seems like a huge deal to learn I do want to
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<dannyboy35>
LdBeth: I’ve been teaching myself python but haven’t really done anything with it
<LdBeth>
dannyboy35: roswell is good when you don’t what to go everywhere to download things
<dannyboy35>
I know a bit of C I took s Visual Basic class in college so I’m not new to programming but I wouldn’t call myself a programmer
<LdBeth>
<dannyboy35 "LdBeth: I’ve been teaching mysel"> dannyboy35: then the first thing I’d like to recommend is to get some feeling of doing programming, and I think the most productive way to do so is learning emacs : D
<dannyboy35>
LdBeth: I have the oreilly book on smack
<dannyboy35>
Emacs
<dannyboy35>
The book on smack is something else
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<LdBeth>
dannyboy35: You don’t have to learn and read a lot to use it, my recommendation is http://spacemacs.org/ which is a work out of the box config for many programming languages including C python CommonLisp Scheme Haskell Swift ...
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<dannyboy35>
sbcl is the one I’ve decided on
<dannyboy35>
I’ve looked at atom I got slima working but it crashed my computer
<dannyboy35>
I have played with emacs in the past vim is just a lot easier to use at least for me
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<dannyboy35>
I’ve only probably learn less then 1% of it
<dannyboy35>
At least I can open and close files lol
<dannyboy35>
But I’ll definitely take a look at that it looks cool LdBeth
<LdBeth>
dannyboy35: that’s great, spacemacs is designed primarily for prior vim users
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<dannyboy35>
Well LdBeth I’m going to sleep it’s 1 am here and I work tomorrow afternoon I’ll definitely be back my nick on my computer is danielboston26 I’m on my iPhone right now
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<LdBeth>
Yes, when necessary, create a block
<beach>
bmansurov: But recursion is not a good technique on lists.
<LdBeth>
A function is a implicit block
<beach>
bmansurov: Try using a combination of LENGTH and NTH.
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<beach>
bmansurov: Besides, I don't see how your code might do the right thing.
<bmansurov>
beach: sure, I think length and nth solves it easily, I wanted to try the recursive version.
<bmansurov>
beach: hmm, any obvious errors in it?
<beach>
But recursion on lists is not a good idea.
<beach>
I may be missing something. Maybe it works.
<bmansurov>
beach: ok got it
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<beach>
Your Common Lisp system may have a very small stack, so the risk of too great a recursion depth is significant.
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<beach>
And you will probably trash the cache by growing and shrinking the stack a lot.
* beach
suspects that his advice was not appreciated.
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<jeosol>
morning guys
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<beach>
Hello jeosol.
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<beach>
jeosol: Are you excluding the women here, or are you using "guys" to refer to women as well?
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<jeosol>
pardon. I used it loosely to refer to both gender, I guess, just "good morning" is correct
<chris4197>
Isn't "guys" basically gender neutral on the internet?
<jeosol>
that's what I thought, at least in my local area
<beach>
It might be.
<beach>
I was just checking.
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<jeosol>
been a while since i was here, but noticed webchat.freenode.net has a much nicer interface now
<chris4197>
Eh, I like the older one more.
<chris4197>
More simple.
<chris4197>
And more information dense.
<jeosol>
haha, yeah, it was simpler, and dense, very true
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<chris4197>
On discord, for example, I absolutely LOATHE the "cozy" UI.
<chris4197>
Give me as many lines of text as possible.
<jeosol>
is anyone working on/ or using lisp with symbolic AI?
<beach>
Yes, someone mentioned that yesterday.
<jeosol>
oh, really, I missed out
<beach>
jeosol: ... and that person wanted to collaborate with others.
<jeosol>
I was trying to get a case-based reasoning book with lisp on Amazon, recalling seeing one with lisp code
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<beach>
Let me find it for you...
<jeosol>
thanks, Beach, much appreciated
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<beach>
This one: <aindilis> any Lispers here interested in AI?
<beach>
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<jeosol>
that's great. It's the general area. I am looking at implementing some standard problems from some articles with Gabor's/ or any neural network code and compile the examples. Some of the code examples are in python and wanted to have a compilation of these examples
<jeosol>
aindilis: what areas of AI are you working on? Are you currently using any specific libraries?
<no-defun-allowed>
jeosol: them and dmiles are doing some stuff with Cyc from memory
<beach>
jeosol: If you go to Tymoon, you can search for aindilis and get the contents of the conversation.
<jeosol>
thank you guys
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<jeosol>
looked up Cyc, very interesting and it's written in lisp
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<no-defun-allowed>
I think what dmiles has is written in Java though, but the database is in s-expression format.
<jeosol>
ok. not very Java saavy, tried picking it up for some stuff a while ago, and lost my mind -- very verbose then
<jeosol>
I am planning to get some books on AI books with some CL focus. I am interested in cognitive systems and explainable AI
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<LdBeth>
I’d like to hear someone’s doing theorem proving tools in lisp here
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<ck_>
LdBeth: I have some experience with RRL. I don't want a repeat.
<LdBeth>
ck_: I’m more interested in the interaction interface rather than the logic framework beneath
<LdBeth>
Hope that’s better than AUTOMATH : D
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<chris4197>
Netsplit!
<chris4197>
Woo!
<chris4197>
nvm
<chris4197>
I am just a fucking idiot.
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<chris4197>
Welp, once again I failed to write the proper exit condition for recursion.
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<random-nick>
is there a read-byte equivalent of read-char-no-hang?
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<lieven>
not in the standard
<jackdaniel>
random-nick: you may combine listen with read-byte
<LdBeth>
then I start to think if I should setup a logical pathname translation
<dlowe>
if you're loading an asdf system, then you can query asdf for the system's location
<dlowe>
which may be more useful
<jackdaniel>
logical pathnames would be cool if they were better specified
<dlowe>
If they were better specified, I imagine they would have been less portable between OSes
<jackdaniel>
well, as they are now they are useless from the lisp implementation perspective
<jackdaniel>
because you can't write a portable common lisp code using them
<jackdaniel>
if anyone things about grand new CDR they should write a precise pathnames and logical pathanmes along with an elaborate test suite for this addendum
<jackdaniel>
thinks*
<LdBeth>
it saves lots of naive concatenation
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<bmansurov>
beach: thanks. I had to leave earlier, but I appreciated your advice.
<beach>
Oh, good!
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<mfiano>
Any HTTP experts here? I've been trying to solve a problem in my use of drakma for 2 days. I would like to POST an HTTP array with a content type of application/x-www-form-urlencoded, in the same way the curl argument -d works. This command: "curl https://... -d -d items[0][plan]=plan_FPjya2CCLvYKVB" does the correct thing, but drakma expects an association list for content to post, and sending that in any
<mfiano>
variation results in the server receiving it wrapped in a string and the server returns that it is not an array.
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<jackdaniel>
mfiano: afair drakma has keyword arguments like external-format and force-binary, maybe this will help?
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<mfiano>
jackdaniel: Hmm, I could try that, but I have to POST other arguments with it that *should* be strings
<mfiano>
Also not quite sure what to specify for those to get the behavior of the above curl argument
<mfiano>
I am passing the Content-Type header of application/x-www-form-urlencoded
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<Xach>
mfiano: hi
<mfiano>
Xach: hello
<Xach>
mfiano: there is no such thing as an http array! what you are sending via curl is a parameter named "items[0][plan]".
<Xach>
if you send an alist with that as a key, it will work.
<Xach>
Is the server expecting JSON or "classic" form data?
<Xach>
From the curl it seems the latter.
<mfiano>
It's actually expecting data as i posted by a form. The content type cannot be application/json
<mfiano>
as if*
<Xach>
mfiano: do you have an array on the lisp side?
<Xach>
(or list)
<mfiano>
Neither
<mfiano>
I am trying to construct the proper string to send in the alist manually
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<Xach>
mfiano: I think proper string may be (... ("items[0][plan]" . "plan_XXX") ...)
<mfiano>
Well that is something I didn't try. I'll play around with that after lunch. Thanks for your help!
<LdBeth>
How to manage several lisp programs that communicates via sockets?
<Xach>
mfiano: i base this suggestion on my understanding of forms from long ago. many language environments choose to interpret keys as describing structure, but to http, they are just strings
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<mfiano>
As far as the value part of the alist, I'm still thinking of a good solution to convert lisp types to strings. like T -> "true", but done so in a way to work with aggregate types recursively
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<Oladon_work>
LdBeth: In what respect?
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<Xach>
Hmm, if you're creating a list of command-line arguments to call a shell command, and some of them might be optional key/value pairs (e.g. --worker-count 42) and some of them might be flags (e.g. --no-scrubs), and you have to inspect some stuff to decide what to include - would you use `(... ,@(unless scrubsp ,@(list "--no-scrubs")) ...) or something else?
<pjb>
asdf_asdf_asdf: try my definition of xu-2 and see how it works for you.
<Bike>
asdf_asdf_asdf: have you done this on your local machine?
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<Bike>
asdf_asdf_asdf: it would be very unusual for sbcl to _run_ without printing errors or warnings and then exit as such. it seems more likely that whatever website that is is suppressing output.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Is agressive compilation, that display all warnings and errros/
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
?
<Bike>
runtime. RUNNING the program will print an error.
<Bike>
you just need to do it in an environment that isn't some website.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
@Bike, yes. I test it on the local machine. On spoj.com I send solution, but wrong.
<Bike>
what does it do on the local machine?
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Because non-zero exit code.
<Bike>
does it have a nonzero exit code on your computer?
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
On the local machine return nothing zero errors/warnings.
<Bike>
okay. so the website sucks.
<Bike>
it's suppressing output so you can't even tell what the problem is.
<Bike>
or something.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
I compiled it on Windows under console CLI and GUI Emacs.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Zero warnings/errors.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Bike, I know probably, why not works. In spoj.com compiler is another version than I am in local machine. Thanks.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
Who check my code? I send whole.
<pjb>
asdf_asdf_asdf: perhaps there's an error. Handle it and exit with status 0.
<asdf_asdf_asdf>
pjb, but how compile it aggressive optimization? Which option in SBCL? I have zero errors/warnings.
<Bike>
sbcl already signals all the compiler warnings it can. i don't think there's any way to make it stricter than it already is.
<Bike>
the problem is probably something stupid like the website not giving sbcl enough memoryl
<Bike>
rather than any actual issue with your program.
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<manualcrank>
your program prolly returns a nonzero exit code because it encountered an exception
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<manualcrank>
unless you run it on the same test data as spoj (not possible; this data is not available), you can't say it works correctly at home
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<manualcrank>
what's the URL of the problem @ spoj?
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<Xach>
cl+ssl's preference for the macports ssl dylib is causing problems today.
<manualcrank>
can't read polish. Also, it's a hidden problem. A hidden problem is a waste of time. It means an admin decided "it has incorrect language version or invalid test data, or description of the problem is not clear."
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