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<flip214_>
no-defun-allowed: you want something like perl6's GIVEN?
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<no-defun-allowed>
I want something like Scheme's COND, where I can write (cond (some-generalised-boolean => #'function-that-takes-a-generalised-boolean)) or similar.
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* pillton
is surprised by this request and that it exists in scheme.
<no-defun-allowed>
It is fairly similar to acond, come to think of it.
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<no-defun-allowed>
But I had a line of code that basically would have been (cond ... ((find-error-in-request request) => error)) and I thought it was nice.
<pillton>
You could have written the macro by now.
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes, I could have ):
<no-defun-allowed>
Then I realised what I had written didn't work anyway so I didn't.
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<unaidelao>
Hello there! One new lisper here!
<wkmanire>
HI
<beach>
Hello unaidelao.
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<unaidelao>
Can anyone tell me how to load a lisp file into REPL, when that file is out of project directory? I'm using Portacle
<wkmanire>
unaidelao: I'm a new old lisper too. Trying to actually learn it instead of guess how it works based on my .emacs these days.
<jackdaniel>
you may also open the file in your editor and type C-c C-k in the buffer
<wkmanire>
jackdaniel: Is calling COMPILE-FILE necessary?
<beach>
No.
<jackdaniel>
it will work without it
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<jackdaniel>
if you want to avoid compiling file for some reason slime also has C-c C-l to load a file in a buffer
<unaidelao>
Thank you!! Emacs is something quite shocking when you've used a lot nowadays IDE's... I have to learn to use it properly
<wkmanire>
unaidelao: It's worth it. Trust me :) It can't do everything some IDEs can do, but it sure as hell can do a million things that IDE can't.
<shka__>
well, it is a very good editor, better then sublime et all
<shka__>
but it requires more elaborate setup
<unaidelao>
wkmanire: Yeah! And it's simplicity is great... only text, all the windows/buffers you need, fast...
<wkmanire>
shka__: Depends on what you're working on right?
<shka__>
spacemacs simplifies configuration of emacs drasticly
<shka__>
wkmanire: i don't think it depends, emacs can do essentially everything that other editors can and then some
<wkmanire>
You say "elaborate setup". I'm arguing that it depends on what you're working on. It might not need it at all
<shka__>
ah, ok
<wkmanire>
For instance, if you're just taking notes with it, your init.el might be tiny or not defined at all.
<wkmanire>
You have org-mode built-in etc...
<shka__>
well, ok
<shka__>
fair point
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<aeth>
emacs, while it has a GUI, is essentially 100% keyboard driven
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<wkmanire>
Anybody doing the Lisp game jam?
<unaidelao>
Ok... time to do some house weekend clean-up. I'm pleased to meet all of you! See you soon!
<wkmanire>
unaidelao: Later dude
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<moldybits>
wkmanire: most of us are in #lispgames
<wkmanire>
moldybits: Thank you! I wish I could participate but I won't have time unfortunately. I'm curiuos to see the conversation of participants though
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<thornAvery>
is there a good article on writing a language that gets transformed to lisp?
<beach>
I doubt it.
<thornAvery>
i could do that with reader macros right?
<jackdaniel>
thornAvery: https://lisper.in/reader-macros is a very nice description how to write a json parser to lisp structures on a reader level
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<thornAvery>
chur jackdaniel, interesting so far
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<cl-arthur>
thornAvery: beautifulracket.com seems, from a quick glance, to be using a full lexer/tokenizer/parser/expander to convert from input language to racket, might have transferable know-how if you want to go that route.
<heisig>
Iota is great. I actually managed to compile Doom to Common Lisp and play it on SBCL.
<loke>
heisig: Wait what? That's pretty cool.
<moldybits>
what
<loke>
I do recall talking to Froggey about iota some time ago.
<shka__>
well, mezzano had demo with quake 1 running after being compiled to common lisp
<shka__>
so yeah, it is pretty amazing
<heisig>
Common Lisp - the ultimative portable assembly language :)
<shka__>
well, it would be rather: LLVM IR - the ultimative assembly
<shka__>
but LLVM IR afaik is not stable so that wouldn't be true
<jackdaniel>
while looking for Mezzano video with said quake I've stumbled upon this cool symbolics lisp machine demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-YnLpLgtk ; I thought I'll share the link
<jackdaniel>
does any CL implementation have extension for conformal displacement?
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<phoe>
I do not even know what the term means
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<mfiano>
phoe: It's basically support for multi-dimensional displacement such that the stride etc come out correctly.
<phoe>
mfiano: I see, thanks
<jackdaniel>
phoe: i.e: displace this 2d array's [200,200] -> [400,400] to this array
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<pjb>
jackdaniel: you will have to implement it yourself.
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<pjb>
jackdaniel: if you used a vector of vector instead of a 2D array, you could just use displaced vectors. But for 2D arrays, you have to perform the indice calculations yourself.
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<pjb>
cl-arthur: I had a look yesterday. It's good that it has tests :-) It seems nicely done. Sorry, I cannot perform a closer code review now.
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<cl-arthur>
pjb: Alright, cheers!
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<beach>
cl-arthur: OK, I'll have a go...
<beach>
In binary-heap.lisp, why are the VEC and COMP-FN slots writable?
<beach>
cl-arthur: Same question for the KEY and DATUM slots of BINARY-NODE.
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<beach>
Oh, I see you have an UPDATE-KEY function, but that doesn't seem to be a reasonable operation on a heap.
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<cl-arthur>
keys are writable because of update-key, and vec is writable because of melding binary heaps. comp-fn and datum probably ought to be read only, though, yeah.
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<beach>
Why do you modify the key (twice) in INSERT-NODE?
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<beach>
In verify-heap, the use of R and L as Boolean variables in AND is a violation of the expectations of the person reading your code, as explained by Norvig and Pitman on page 13 of the LUV slides.
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<beach>
Same thing with SEQ in INITIALIZE-INSTANCE.
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<beach>
In comments, I would put a space after the last semicolon and end the phrase with punctuation, so as to make it a complete phrase.
<beach>
In the SIZE function in the file pairing-heap.lisp, you write (+ 1 ...). Using 1+ would be more specific.
<cl-arthur>
insert-node for binary-heap relies on update-key, and the key gets set to nil to force update-key to start updating. Can't think of a better signal quite off the top of my head re. that, since arbitrary comp-fn.
<beach>
I guess I don't see why keys would change. I mean, that is something given by client code, usually.
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<cl-arthur>
Cormen's introduction to algorithms implements max-heap-insert in same way of using a sentinel and delegating to heap-increase-key. How does client code usually handle key changes?
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<beach>
Usually, keys don't change. They are things like your social-security number, your membership number, your license plate, your name, etc.
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<cl-arthur>
Are those typical keys for heaps and/or priority queues? O.O
<beach>
No, I guess not. For priority queues they would be numbers I suppose.
<beach>
Anyway, so keys can change. Fine.
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<beach>
The code looks quite good otherwise.
<beach>
There are some things I would do differently, but it is not shocking as it is.
<cl-arthur>
What are examples of what you'd do differently?
<beach>
I use uninterned symbols for package names, exported symbols, ASDF system definitions, etc. to indicate that the package of the symbol is of no importance.
<beach>
And I name my slots differently, so that client code would not be tempted to use SLOT-VALUE or WITH-SLOTS.
<beach>
As it is, you are using the same name for the accessor and the slot. Since that name is exported, there would be no warnings or errors if client code were to use SLOT-VALUE.
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<beach>
And I don't use non-Boolean variables as arguments to operators that take Boolean arguments.
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<beach>
But the last one is not mine. It is from Norvig and Pitman, like I said.
<beach>
Oh, and your docstrings are going to look funny since lines other than the first one are indented.
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<beach>
To avoid that, while still being able to indent those lines in the code, I use #.(format nil "...")
<beach>
That way, I can use the tilde-newline format directive. I end every line except the last one with ~@. That way, the next line will not be indented.
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<cl-arthur>
Could you elaborate on the uninterned symbols for package names, exports, asdf, etc?
<beach>
(in-package #:package-name)
<beach>
(:export #:name-1 #:name-2...)
<phoe>
cl-arthur: basically, they are uninterned to avoid unnecessary interning and therefore name pollution
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<pjb>
actually, those operators just want to use strings.
<beach>
phoe: More importantly, it clearly signals that the package is unimportant.
<pjb>
(in-package "PACKAGE-NAME")
<phoe>
pjb: yes, but (defpackage "FOO") looks ugly.
<phoe>
At least to me.
<pjb>
(in-package #:package-name) is slower, since now they have to call (symbol-name '#:package-name) #| --> "PACKAGE-NAME" |# to get the string.
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<pjb>
Also, this requires allocating a symbol, then garbage collecting. All useless work.
<pjb>
The only advantage is to support some optional non-conforming features of some commercial implementation…
<pjb>
*optional*!
<beach>
cl-arthur: One more thing: I start the file with (CL:IN-PACKAGE rather than (IN-PACKAGE in case *PACKAGE* is set to something that does not :USE the COMMON-LISP package.
<beach>
cl-arthur: And I do (cl:in-package #:asdf-user) in the .asd file.
<beach>
And I omit the asdf: package prefix.
<pjb>
Now, this is arguable. 1- there are trick that can nullify the CL: anyways. 2- this makes it more difficult (we have to use those tricks), to define in-package in the current package to do something more than cl:package.
<beach>
cl-arthur: And I put (cl:in-package #:common-lisp-user) in the packages.lisp file.
<pjb>
So it has advantage and inconvenient. I'm not sure which win.
<beach>
cl-arthur: Anyway, I think that's all I have for you.
<cl-arthur>
keyword name pollution gets in the way of things if you enumerate all interned symbols in a user package, since the user package will then have interned the keywords when setting up to use the package that had those keywords in it?
<cl-arthur>
guessing that name pollution is different from name collision.
<beach>
cl-arthur: As I said, polluting the keyword package is not the main issue. It is to clearly signal to the person reading the code that the package of the symbol is unimportant.
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<beach>
sjl: Oh!
<sjl_>
> You shouldn’t use an in-package form if you’re keeping things simple. You should only use in-package (and before it, a defpackage) when you’re going to define new classes, functions, variables, macros, etc., in the .asd file, and want to thereby avoid name clashes. Manuals for old versions of ASDF recommended use of such an idiom in .asd files, but as of ASDF 3, we recommend that you don’t do that
<sjl_>
anymore, and instead define any ASDF extensions in their own system,
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<TMA>
the other advantage of uninterned symbols is that you avoid SHOUTING
<cl-arthur>
beach: Thanks for the code review :)
<beach>
sjl_: It is not for the extensions. It is so that Emacs knows which package it is.
<beach>
cl-arthur: Anytime.
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<sjl_>
Ah. Emacs doesn't know that .asd files should be in the :asdf-user package by default?
<beach>
Not last time I looked, no.
<sjl_>
Well, it shouldn't hurt anything to include it
<beach>
Maybe that has changed.
<beach>
Right.
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<oni-on-ion>
mfiano, i got email about game jam. says 2018 ? =)
<mfiano>
Right.
<mfiano>
You can read it to find out why.
<oni-on-ion>
This jam is now over.
<oni-on-ion>
o_o
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<cl-arthur>
Shocking!
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<aeth>
That was fast
<sjl_>
I'd call it pretty slow, if the 2018 jam is just ending now...
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<oni-on-ion>
i think i assumed there would be a link for 2019 in the mail, mfiano . just got confused is all
<aeth>
The 2019 game jam should end the day the 2020 game jam begins.
<oni-on-ion>
ehe. its beginning in like one hour. im still thinking about it. the pressure of 10 days without engine might be just what i need
<aeth>
That way the link won't be too old and we'll never have a day without Lisp games
<oni-on-ion>
every year is game jam year? =)
<sjl_>
it's beginning in 12 hours, right?
<aeth>
You could maybe write an engine in one year
<oni-on-ion>
ok website says 12. lots of time to think and plan
<oni-on-ion>
aeth, i seen a recent youtub video: program snake game in 4 mins
<oni-on-ion>
without engine
<oni-on-ion>
=P
<mfiano>
Email says: "Hello, and thanks for joining this year's Lisp Game Jam! This is just a friendly reminder that the event will be starting in just a few hours."
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<oni-on-ion>
oops. i read two hours.... i blame firefox Dark Mode extension. sometimes things are out of wack
<mfiano>
That's still different than your quote :)
<oni-on-ion>
ive shared but one quote =) "This jam is now over."
<oni-on-ion>
or if its a quote of me then its your quote? o_o
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<beach>
I get "note"s from SBCL whenever I use RESTART-CASE that it can't stack allocate. Is there a way to avoid those notes? Normally, SBCL give notes only when I have a high value of the SPEED OPTIMIZE quality.