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<jmercouris> how can I view notes generated during compilation in non-open buffers?
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<Bike> non open?
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<jmercouris> Bike: Unopend
<jmercouris> s/Unopend/Unopened
<Bike> what do you mean by "compilation in non-open buffers".
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<jmercouris> I load a system in my repl, it complains about a bunch of warnings
<jmercouris> how do I jump to those warnings in their respective files?
<Bike> load a system with what, asdf?
<jmercouris> Bike: Yes, loading an ASDF system via slime
<jmercouris> slime-load-system
<Bike> asdf tends to suppress warnings. unfortunately i'm not sure how to get at them either
<scymtym> there should be a *slime-compilation* buffer
<jmercouris> Sometimes if I have the file open it'll put a yellow underline on the element that has some sort of problem, and I can jump through all of the issues in a file using slime-previous-note, and slime-next-note (M-n, M-P)
<jmercouris> scymtym: Ah yes, that works as well! Thank you!
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<phoe> Xach: I allowed myself to file a skippy bug. Could you take a look and tell me if the attached GIF file loads for you?
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<whoman> hi !
<beach> Hello whoman.
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<Arcaelyx> Hey if anyone uses Discord, there's an FP server here: https://discord.gg/8w9tRKa
<beach> How is that related to Common Lisp?
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<Arcaelyx> How is it not
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<beach> I did not imply that it is not related. It was an honest question.
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<Shinmera> CL isn't particularly about FP. There is a Lisp server too somewhere though.
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<scymtym> loke`: you seem to be maintaining closure-html at https://github.com/bluelisp/closure-html . have you made similar arrangements for any of the cxml libraries?
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<phoe> Hello hey hi
<oleo> morning
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<Josh_2> Shinmera: in your Twitch videos what editor are you using?
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<Shinmera> Emacs, naturally.
<loke`> scymtym: No. I have not. I'd be happy to do it though if you can't find anyone else to do it.
<Josh_2> How'd you make it look like that?
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<Shinmera> With elisp, of course. https://github.com/Shinmera/.emacs
<Josh_2> O damn
<loke`> Where can I find Shinmera videos?
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<loke`> Thanks
<anonus> question about hunchentoot, if i may
<anonus> is it possible to defer a request processing, not returning a response from a handler function but doing it somewhere else? Or do I need wookie for that?
<Shinmera> In general the question of "where can I find x of mine" can be answered by this page: https://everything.shinmera.com/
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<Shinmera> anonus: "Doing it somewhere else" meaning what?
<scymtym> loke`: i was willing to do it by myself but if you are also interested, all the better. the practical question is whether to ask david to make more bluelisp repositories or fork under the sharplispers organization
<loke`> Sems interesting. A pity the background is dark.
<loke`> (my eye can't watch dark background text)
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<anonus> Shinmera: for example i want to implement some kind of long polling, waiting for data to arrive asynchronously and then returning it to requester (or returning empty response after timeout)
<Shinmera> And white screens hurt mine
<loke`> anonus: You can do it in Hunchentoot
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<Shinmera> anonus: With SEND-HEADERS you can get the output stream and write/flush to it as you please.
<loke`> Shinmera: probably not as bad as for me. I literally become half-blind and the room start spinning after about 3 minutes of dark background. It's annoying as hell.
<Shinmera> loke`: Wow, ok.
<anonus> Shinmera: so then i need to do detach-socket and store stream somewhere to use it later?
<loke`> (then, there are scientific reasons for light backgrounds being better for the eyes... less eyestrain, but that's a separate thing :-) )
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<Shinmera> anonus: No, you just block until you've written what you need to the stream.
<Shinmera> loke`: I prefer dark backgrounds on almost everything, so your science can shove it.
<anonus> but then it will consume thread from thredpool?
<anonus> *threadpool
<loke`> I might just watch your video in small window in the corner of the screen. That'll be fine.
<Shinmera> anonus: An open connection will consume resources no matter what.
<anonus> sure, but thread seems much more wasting that just an open socket
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<anonus> i mean i will probably start with just blocking a thread as you said, but i just want to know potentially can I do this detach-socket thing and free a thread for hunchentoot
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<anonus> also is this the only way, i mean maybe someone did more "high-level" implementation, like some kind of deferring dispatcher
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<Shinmera> I mean, the answer to almost every software question is "yes, but..." with the but here being that I don't think HT is intended for that, and I personally don't know how you would have to go about it. Read the docs and source, experiment.
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<anonus> well, yes, i know this "yes, but ...", i mean hunchentoot generally fits perfectly with 99% of use i intended, but this one callback with long polling - i just want to make sure that effort required by implementing this single callback will not overpower advantages i get from every other use
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<Shinmera> You might want to consider websockets instead of long polling, though if I remember correctly the hunchentoot extension for WS uses a thread per connection anyway, so
<anonus> unfortunately no, this is part of a spec
<Shinmera> Ah.
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<lisp_guest> Shinmera, i was snooping around your .emacs, this comment made me laugh ";; Stop with these fucking annoying "'"style"'" conventions"
<lisp_guest> lul
<Shinmera> I am a very rude individual and you will find things like that all over.
<lisp_guest> i like how the comment is followed by a setq to 9999
<lisp_guest> hah, i don't mind it at all, it's kinda refreshing in a way :^)
<Josh_2> I think I bit more off than I can chew with trying to implement B+ Trees :O
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<ebrasca> Is there some library for checking for strong passwords?
<shka> Josh_2: don't bullshit me and just do it
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<ebrasca> phoe: hi
<phoe> ebrasca: hey
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<ebrasca> phoe: how is your UltraSpec going?
<phoe> ebrasca: paused for now, I am tending to other parts of my life.
<ebrasca> phoe: Do you make some metings?
<Shinmera> ebrasca: Easy trick: calculate the standard deviation over characters in the password string. Then just normalise that over some region of un/acceptability.
<Shinmera> bonus points for reducing the score with a dictionary lookup.
<ebrasca> Shinmera: What do you mean?
<Shinmera> ebrasca: I mean what I said. You'll have to be more specific about what you don't understand.
* ebrasca only undestand deviation with numbers.
<Shinmera> characters can be mapped to numbers
<Shinmera> clhs char-code
<ebrasca> clhs sbcl
<specbot> Couldn't find anything for sbcl.
<ebrasca> clhs +
<ebrasca> Shinmera: Thanks you, I think I can add it to my webpage passwords checking.
<phoe> ebrasca: nope.
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<ebrasca> phoe: ok
<ebrasca> phoe: how are you?
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<phoe> ebrasca: busy
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<k-stz> hey, when I launch sbcl i get a fatal error: "can't find core file at /usr/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core". If I unset the $SBCL_HOME variable, it works. It also works when I run it as root. We're talking a clean installation of sbcl. I'm having trouble setting the variable in the environment, and perhaps I can avoid this hacky solution.
<k-stz> lastly $SBCL_HOME does point to a non-existent file
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<Shinmera> just don't set the variable to anything?
<Shinmera> Like, if it works without it set, why do you think you need to do anything beyond just having it unset?
<oleo> $SBCL_HOME should be a directory
<oleo> either /usr/lib/sbcl or /usr/local/lib/sbcl
<oleo> if it's in a /usr/lib64/sbcl location change it accordingly
<Shinmera> Just. Don't. Have. It. Set. To. Anything.
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<k-stz> Shinmera: I can't do this, I try to unset it anywhere google told me too, but it still gets into the environemnt. I can't find the place where it is set to begin with. I thought the ultimate place is /etc/profile, but the /usr/bin/sh still sets it.
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<Shinmera> Well SBCL isn't magic. It's being set somewhere.
<p_l> k-stz: worst case make a wrapper script that calls unset before exec sbcl
<k-stz> p_l: yeah, that'll do
<Shinmera> There's /etc/profile, /etc/bashrc, /etc/profile.d, ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, ~/.profile, ~/.bashrc
<Shinmera> Check all of those, since sh probably aliases to bash anyway.
<k-stz> got it
<Shinmera> Alternatively, grep -r SBCL_HOME /
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<k-stz> ok fixed it, set the environment in my window manager. for some reason it is unaffected by any environement variable changing done prior to its invocation
<k-stz> (stumpwm)
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<k-stz> Shinmera: I tried all the paths you suggested first, it did work for the login shell but not after the window manager was invoked :/ (startx called from the login shell)
<Shinmera> Well if you launch it directly from the window manager it's going to inherit the variables the window manager has set
<Shinmera> That's standard behaviour
<Shinmera> Unless other rules are invoked, subprocessed always inherit a copy of the environment
<Shinmera> *subprocesses
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<k-stz> that's what I gathered as well, thinking the window manger being a subprocess of the login shell would do also inherit the environement variable from it. But couldn't imagine why the wm should set that variable. though it does run sbcl itself..
<didi> So I have a little grammar to describe a datum. I've been using keywords inside it, so it is independent of package, but is there a way to use plain symbols instead?
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<BigSafari> coming from clojure, why no sethash? (setf (gethash 'somekey ht) 'somevalue) seems verbose. easy to define you own sethash, but is there a rationale?
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<Shinmera> Because typically you use setf for everything.
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<Shinmera> If anyone's looking for something relaxing to do on this Sunday evening, the Lisp Treehouse is starting in ~7 minutes. http://stream.shinmera.com
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<phoe> I have a quest for someone willing with an Android NDK installed.
<phoe> Could someone follow https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/blob/develop/INSTALL#L25 and send me the resulting ecl-android package? I'm trying to boot up ECL on Android 6 and need to make sure that it isn't my environment that is screwed up.
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<raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day
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<pfdietz> BigSafari: you can do more things with setf-able forms. For example, (incf (gethash <key> <table> 0)).
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<pfdietz> push, pushnew, pop, shiftf, rotatef, psetf, decf, remf, ccase, ctypecase, assert all can access/modify generalized references. More can be defined.
<BigSafari> ok, nice extendable, didnt get it before now :-)
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<pseudonymous> Question - if I have some library which isn't available via QuickLisp, but on Github, can I install it through my running environment somehow ? I know that roswell apparently can install packages on GH, but I'd like to keep doing it in the repl if I can
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<pseudonymous> BigSafari: *very* cool :) I would've preferred a one-stop solution, but this is very do-able, thanks :)
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<jmercouris> Can you setf within a with-slots?
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<Bike> you can setf a with-slots variable, if that's what you mean
<jmercouris> Bike: That's exactly what I meant, thank you
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<jmercouris> If I have something like (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((self some-obj))) in a super-class, will classes that extend it also call the initialize-instance?
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<Bike> sure.
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<jmercouris> Interesting, what if it is also defined in the child class?
<jmercouris> Will the child class call both methods or just one of them?
<jmercouris> I assume that it will just call the child method
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<Bike> which is to say, no, you're incorrect
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<jmercouris> It'll call all of them?
<jmercouris> It seems that it'd have to invoke call-next-method?
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<jmercouris> No wait, I'm totally wrong, let me re-read this document
<Bike> "All the after methods are called in most-specific-last order. Their values are ignored. An error is signaled if call-next-method is used in an after method. "
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<jmercouris> So it will call first the parent, and then the child
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<jmercouris> I assume this is because of multiple inheritance?
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<Bike> multiple inheritance doesn't seem related to me
<jmercouris> It seems related to me
<jmercouris> One can't invoke something like [super parent] when there are multiple parents
<jmercouris> Therefore, the system has to call all of the parent constructors by default
<Bike> oh, well, yes, super wouldn't make sense
<jmercouris> Just a theory, I obviously have no idea why the language designers designed it this way
<jmercouris> but a thought
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<Bike> constructors (that is to say, object initialization) isn't usually as major a thing in lisp than in C++ or whatever, in my experience
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<Josh_2> Does the loop keyword :with var := change each iteration?
<Josh_2> Nope it does not
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<Shinmera> for var = x does
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<Josh_2> That's what I ended up with ty Shinmera
<Josh_2> Shinmera: I got to your stream just as you finished, the only thing I heard "goodnight everybody"
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<mr_yogurt> What are common uses of dynamic scoping?
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<pjb> mr_yogurt: *print-…* variables.
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<mr_yogurt> pjb: is that it? i already knew about that use case
<pjb> To evaluate the commonality of the use of dynamic scoping, use: find ~/quicklisp -name \*.lisp -exec grep -nHi 'declare.*special' {} +
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<pjb> you will see that it's actually very rarely used, and where it's used it's rather quaint and it should probably be refactored out.
<pjb> eg. in cl-ppcre convert, using defmacro to define list accessors is lame. The CL way to do that would be (defstruct (flags (:type list) (:conc-name ||)) case-insensitive-mode-p multi-line-mode-p single-line-mode-p).
<pjb> but it's another problem.
<pjb> mr_yogurt: so one valid use is to easily mask off the current binding temporarily.
<pjb> But often it would be more efficient to refactor it in a more functional way, using only lexical bindings.
<Shinmera> Josh_2: It'll be up on youtube soon.
<phoe> dynamic vars come you need to have some kind of semi-global state in your code
<phoe> come where you need*
<phoe> that's where DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER shine pretty well
<pjb> Well, it is unfortunate that CL provides for global variables only dynamic bindings (defvar, defparameter, and even defconstant even if you cannot rebind constant variables).
<phoe> how can you imagine a lexical binding for global variables?
<pjb> Because most global variables don't need to be special.
<phoe> oh, that, correct
<pjb> phoe: define-symbol-macro is global lexical binding.
<Shinmera> mr_yogurt: In my parsers I usually use dynamic scoping for the current parsing context. That avoids having to pass the context around all the time, and lets me have it only be valid during parsing, making any of the parsing functions error outside of the proper context.
<Shinmera> mr_yogurt: Furthermore, being able to bind the current context dynamically can be advantageous for sub-region parsing, or other things like that.
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<pjb> Shinmera: have you measured it. I'm not sure that it's faster at all. Accessing dynamic variables may be rather costly, notably in presence of threads!
<Shinmera> pjb: I don't think I said anything about fast.
<mr_yogurt> how does CL implement dynamic vars?
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<pjb> mr_yogurt: CL doesn't implement anything. It specifies.
<mr_yogurt> pjb: sbcl then
<pjb> Implementations usually implement a superset of a subset of CL.
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<pjb> Ask in #sbcl.
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<Bike> memory or TLS slot with a stack in it
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<Shinmera> Josh_2: Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7DoAb03NKM
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<Josh_2> Neat
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