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<hramrach_>
hello
<hramrach_>
is the mainline nand driver supposed to work on a10?
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<Guest19556>
hi need some help for a allinwinner device
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<rellla>
libv: fhandle patch sent, sun7i_defconfig and sun4i_defconfig in stage/sunxi-3.4 should include all config options with this patch to run systemd
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* hramrach_
patches nand section into cubieboard DT
<rellla>
ssvb: did you ever got vsync working in fbturbo vsync-test?
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<hramrach_>
does vsync work anywhere at all?
<hramrach_>
I mean I never got it working on PC either
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<hramrach_>
libv: I used other page and got at that very same files
<hramrach_>
but I want rootfs files
<hramrach_>
but nanda files but nandd files
<hramrach_>
and cannot find those
<libv>
they are also there
<libv>
just search creatively
<libv>
why do you need this anyway?
<hramrach_>
touch firmware
<hramrach_>
hmm android-tools-fsutils has simg2img
<libv>
the bigger of the files is probably ext4
<libv>
and yes, you need that tool
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<hramrach_>
would be nice to be able to flash the tablet but I guess that's not possible because some of the steps livesuit/phoneixcard does are unknown
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<dack>
anyone order or get a BPI-R1 (The banana pi router device)?
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<hramrach_>
if the interface is not known experience does not help you
<CaptHindsight>
you could swap the old pad for a cap touch pad or even just swap the LCD for a cap touch version
<CaptHindsight>
USB
<hramrach_>
don't see the picture clearly so not even sure there is a pad
<CaptHindsight>
those had the famous NUB
<hramrach_>
and if it's an old case the touchpad would be somewhat lower than the surface with some bevel over it so easier to replace
<hramrach_>
then you can possibly use the nub mechanics with some gpio and just trash the electronic parts of it
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<hramrach_>
but another problem with x60 is the format is ancient
<hramrach_>
hard to get screens with this aspect these days I would expect
<hramrach_>
did not try pricing screens, though
<CaptHindsight>
yeah, that looks like a ~4:3
<hramrach_>
on the other hand, with decent 3d printing you can get case prototypes fast and if the project takes off just get some Chinese to make the case in volume
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<hramrach_>
so you get to pick the case shape and in the end it will probably be cheaper than spare thinkpad cases
<CaptHindsight>
I can buy cases in China
<hramrach_>
still reusing a brand name keyboard at least might be good idea
<CaptHindsight>
tooling is very costly
<CaptHindsight>
>$200K for laptop molds
<hramrach_>
yes, you do not buy them in China but most are manufactured there anyway
<hramrach_>
that's why using spare parts for start is nice for prototyping
<hramrach_>
but selling non-lenovo hardware in TP cases might be legally dodgy
<CaptHindsight>
all depends on what you want to do with a project like this
<hramrach_>
adj_: I think there is no possibility to agree on a format. Different people want different form factor.
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<hramrach_>
you could like use a SoM but each SoM is different because each SoC has different features. EOMA fails because it only standardizes the least common denominator
<CaptHindsight>
you can SLA a case in <10 minutes
<hramrach_>
that's very slow for anything but prototyping
<CaptHindsight>
yeah, it depends on the volume one would expect to make
<CaptHindsight>
thousands would be more than I'd expect for such a project
<CaptHindsight>
unless somehow it was actually in the same or lower price range as a new laptop
<hramrach_>
but if it gets more than tens printing the cases gets impractical
<CaptHindsight>
that would be using 1 slower printer
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<CaptHindsight>
any feedback yet on the zippiness of the A80?
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<hramrach_>
the graphics is unsupported. the 3d part that is. not that the performance of the 3d engine would mean much if it was. and nobody managed to run sane system on it so far. some people probably have EVBs with Android or the Onda tablet
<hramrach_>
but if I was designing this laptop thingy I would go for rock2 SoM as cora and just design custom baseboard to fit into some case which is easily available
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<hramrach_>
my expectation is that you could get around the same price point as new laptop. int he past you would get edge in longer battery life if you stuffed the free space with batteries but with latest gen Intel hardware the PC battery life might be actually competitive with that of ARM in the same case
<hramrach_>
that's what I get with freshly created mmc card
<hramrach_>
is u-boot supposed to work on a10?
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<hramrach_>
hmm, looks like I am trying to boot a10 u-boot on a20
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<adj_>
hramrach_, being not open is not the biggest problem
<adj_>
availability is a bigger one
<adj_>
i like to buy a standard atx case and put a atx board into it
<hramrach_>
yes. and that's where brands like Lenovo or HP shine - they keep spare parts available for a long time
<adj_>
i could make a board to fit into apple mini... until 2015 model breaks board compatibility
<hramrach_>
I don't like buying ATX board and putting it into ATX case
<adj_>
probably lenovo and hp laptop cases have patents
<adj_>
i'd like to buy a case for any company that wants to make standard cases
<hramrach_>
you would probably not break any patent by fitting different hardware into the case
<hramrach_>
manufacturing them would be another matter
<adj_>
yes, is you buy they cases
<adj_>
if
<adj_>
their
<adj_>
yes, if you buy their cases
<hramrach_>
but the whole point of involving lenovo in these discussions is to buy their cases for early prototypes so you do not have to worry about mechanical design
<adj_>
compatibility between board, cases, bus boards etc. is the single biggest win for PC success
<hramrach_>
if you want to make cases you can just design your own
<hramrach_>
the ATX case compatibility is not *that* great
<hramrach_>
like I bought a new PSU and had to get a new case as well because .. it was not compatible
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<hramrach_>
ATX is like a guideline which the manufacturers follow, more or less
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<hramrach_>
but sometimes the stuff does not fit together regardless
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<adj_>
not the perfect one but the best available
<hramrach_>
it does not work for laptops, anyway
<adj_>
it could work for laptops
<hramrach_>
there is effort to squeeze the laptops in smaller and smaller cases so they cannot have a standard
<hramrach_>
there is like standard laptop drive .. or 3-4 laptop drive formats
<hramrach_>
and like standard WiFi card format with BIOSes that prevent you from using a card of different brand
<adj_>
PC cases have never been the cutest, more optimized cases
<adj_>
you can buy an apple cube, apple mini, apple can etc.
<hramrach_>
yes, and you can put a PC under the desk and forget about it. not the case with laptop. or if you do you caould just not get any laptop in the first place and you wuld get as much use of it
<adj_>
buy most of us want a standard computer
<hramrach_>
actually, most people do not upgrade their PC more than they can upgrade an Apple computer
<hramrach_>
so the point about standardization is moot
<adj_>
except for the wrong size of the screen and the lack of a keyboard, something like the novena case is good for me
<hramrach_>
and it probably works for somebody since they designed it that way
<hramrach_>
that's why you cannot standardize a laptop case
<adj_>
you are right, i can't, only the people that make laptops
<adj_>
because of that i suggest bunnie, arm64 openlaptop and anyone that makes an opensource laptop to agree on a board form factor
<hramrach_>
nobody can standardize them. there is just too much variability and the case design has much to do with trying to fit as much as possible into limited space. the hardware still needs more space than is practical for laptops
<adj_>
it is happening with microcontroler boards like arduino
<adj_>
many people makes boards compatible at the connenctors level
<hramrach_>
if the microcntroller was powerful enough you could design a standardized line of laptop cases around it. proble is it isn't
<adj_>
or the raspberry pi
<adj_>
because arduino is not powerfull enough for a laptop, we need a standard one for laptops
<hramrach_>
when arduino micro sized boards are powerful enough for laptop then it will be possible allright
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<adj_>
maybe you don't agree, but i'm tired of looking for a laptop: sometimes are ok, but the screen is crap, or the keyboard, or costs 2k$...
<CaptHindsight>
well if made the board and case then most likely everyone would just follow me
<CaptHindsight>
since the design files would all be open
<CaptHindsight>
who else is making an open laptop besides that bunnie/novena project?
<adj_>
hramrach_, so you think that is possible at the server level (1U, 2U... raks), at the PC level, at the development/embedded level, but not at the laptop...
<hramrach_>
yes, the imperfect laptops are tiring. but the lack of standard and lack of quality is because there are engineering tradeoffs to be made. Sometimes marketing gets involved too, unfortunately
<CaptHindsight>
and that was really an open Exynos ARM board that became a clumsy laptop
<adj_>
maybe is _not_making_ but saying that will make
<adj_>
i'd like an agreement about board layout
<hramrach_>
adj_: if that project succeeds it will be one of many laptops. it cannot become a standard because it does not fit everyone
<adj_>
novena doesn't use exynos
<CaptHindsight>
sorry i.mx6
<hramrach_>
a tiny board powerful enough to power any reasonable laptop would make it possible to make multitude of cases that are driven by ergonomy and taste and are powered by same standardized board but such board does not exist
<adj_>
hramrach_, the same for servers, pcs, and dev boards
<CaptHindsight>
easy enough to make
<hramrach_>
for PCs or servers you do have standardized boards powerful enough to drive any reasonable PC or server
<adj_>
PC boards are powerful now, in mid 80's was inferior to many computers
<adj_>
but won because compatibilit
<hramrach_>
the compatibility in 80's was not that great
<hramrach_>
they won because of price
<hramrach_>
they were inferior but cheap - like CHinese tablets now
<adj_>
ibm pc was 1200$ (1981 $) without monitor or disk, more expensive that contemporary computers
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<adj_>
compatibility made competition, and competition made PC cheap
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<adj_>
even sexy apple computers where cheaper than the ibm pc
<CaptHindsight>
a bit OT here but Allwinner seems to be failing
<hramrach_>
they have USB3 which that chip does not
<hramrach_>
but A80 support is also poor
<hramrach_>
you see, the SoCs are like the laptops. you cannot fit *everything* into a SoC so there are engineering and marketing tradeoffs to be made
<adj_>
CaptHindsight, a bit OT? openlaptop was OT!
<hramrach_>
adj_: yes, it was not the IBM PC but the cheap clones that won. Why it was possible to clone the PC and not the mac is probably because Apple had the whole platform under control - hardware and OS
<hramrach_>
but on PC the hardware and software vendor were different so a standardized interface was required
<hramrach_>
and clones could be made to that interface
<CaptHindsight>
adj_: further OT :)
<adj_>
PC won when many companies made ibm pc compatibles and agreed on a bus standard and board standard
<CaptHindsight>
started out as A80 laptop
<afaerber>
mripard, wens: just read a statement from ojn that DT ordering should be by unit address. that would contradict ordering by node name as requested for sun9i - can/should we fix this before it gets merged?
<hramrach_>
today your A80 laptop would have to run Android and it's not clear when it wil be possible to run something sane on A80
<adj_>
cortex a53 and cortex a57 are powerful enough for me, just want a board standard, and being able to install an OS as a standard computer
<hramrach_>
I don't know about a53 or a57 but today SoCs based on A15 or A17 seem powerful enough .. for a netbook
<adj_>
i'm not going to saturate more this channel with OT, sorry for the noise
<hramrach_>
and given the small size of the EVBs it's clear you *could* stuff hardware based on that into a netbook case without much difficulty
<hramrach_>
just not he EVBs because they have connectors randomly sticking out in all directions
<CaptHindsight>
well most ARM mainboards are designed by the 1000 monkeys approach in China
<hramrach_>
you can actually order an Allwinner A10 based netbook from China
<CaptHindsight>
I got mine there
<CaptHindsight>
the MB was double sided taped into the case
<hramrach_>
but you see, just take display interface. there is RGB, LVDS, eDP. Some SoCs support one some the other. eDP is clear win in the long run but until it wins you cannot standardize display connection
<hramrach_>
similar for general peripherial connection - clear win in long run is USB3 or PCIe but some current SoCs don't support either
<CaptHindsight>
it used to be that the size, mounting holes and connector locations and types were not standard on LCD's, that started around 99'
<linkmauve1>
I will probably test it on my Olimex Lime sometime soon. :)
<naobsd>
I'll try on my A20 Lime
<jmcneill>
I don't know that anybody has tried it on an Olimex board specifically.
<jmcneill>
Good test for the FEX support I guess.
<naobsd>
jmcneill: it seems some part is hardcoded or specified by kernel config
<naobsd>
jmcneill: is there any plan to support device tree in NetBSD?
<jmcneill>
I don't think so
<jmcneill>
I'd like it, but it's not up to me
<naobsd>
jmcneill: sorry, I just asked whole NetBSD, not /evbarm or you :)
<jmcneill>
IIRC the port-arm maintainer doesn't like it
<naobsd>
jmcneill: btw, board specific kernel config is not mandatory now by fex support? my understanding is bit old
<naobsd>
jmcneill: oh...
<jmcneill>
So I get to suffer :p
<jmcneill>
I'd like to have a board independent config but it's not there yet.
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<jmcneill>
The GPIO config used to be driven by arch/evbarm/awin/awin_machdep.c:awin_device_register() but it'll use a fex if you supply one now
<jmcneill>
But there are still separate kernels for Cubietruck (2GB) and Cubieboard1/2 (1GB)
<jmcneill>
and BPI is separate again, but I think that's because of the GPIO differences
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<jmcneill>
then the A31 board, which used to be separate because of GPIO, now is separate because I don't know how to probe RAM size yet (how lame is that)
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<naobsd>
jmcneill: I guess u-boot knows proper ram size...?
<jmcneill>
it does, yeah
<jmcneill>
but a kernel marked as type 'NetBSD' doesn't get any of that info
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<jmcneill>
on my todo list
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<naobsd>
jmcneill: which u-boot are you using? upstream? github/linux-sunxi?
<naobsd>
well
<jmcneill>
on my cubie2 I use github/linux-sunxi
<naobsd>
I should setup my Allwinner boards :)
<jmcneill>
on the a31 I switch between github/linux-sunxi and one I built from the a31 sdk
<jmcneill>
linux-sunxi one mostly works better except it doesn't know how to rbeoot
<jmcneill>
on the a31 that is
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<naobsd>
hm
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<jmcneill>
the watchdog regs changed between a10/a20 and a31
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<jmcneill>
i can't wait to go through this exercise again when my a80 board arrives
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<naobsd>
who has a80 board? matt?
<jmcneill>
i think he just got an optimusboard
<jmcneill>
i ordered a cubieboard4 the other day
<naobsd>
sounds good :)
<jmcneill>
it's too bad they got rid of sata
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<naobsd>
ah
<jmcneill>
a 2GB+ board with more than 2 CPUs would be nice for building packages
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<jmcneill>
i guess there are 2GB hummingbird A31 boards but I haven't seen them available in quantities < 100
<jmcneill>
(but still no SATA)
<jmcneill>
new ones have xhci at least
<jmcneill>
i think?
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<naobsd>
I'm not sure it's xhci compatible, need to check linux code...
<jmcneill>
designware dual-role thing with otg + xhci i think?