azonenberg changed the topic of #homecmos to: Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | Wiki: http://homecmos.drawersteak.com/wiki/Main_Page | Repository: http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
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<Noxz> looked more into biohacking.. likely going the bio-listic/gene gun route for knocking out genes in a few things I am interested in, vs, say, CRISPR
<Noxz> making the micropore detector cheaper would be nice, though $1k USD to get started into it is not bad
<Noxz> (minION)
<SpeedEvil> 1K for the basic thingy, you need more to be able to sample stuff
<Noxz> they give you two plates of pore detector thingies
<Noxz> for the 1k
<Noxz> and you can rinse/reuse them a bit
<Noxz> but, yeah, you need to have other equip, that's just a small sequencer
<SpeedEvil> i mean to go from a biological sample to DNA in a form suitable to sequence
<Noxz> extracting DNA isnt too difficult, that's a middle school afternoon project
<Noxz> I'd love to explore cheaper alternatives, but it isnt too bad for something that works
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<SpeedEvil> Extracting it in nice shape to sample, with little contaminating DNA, on the other hand
<Noxz> I think you also need to segment it a bit for sequencing.. that the proteine based micropores can straighten up some dna, but not a scomplete strand
<Noxz> random segmentations, that then your ocmputer/cloud has to compare and rejoin it all
<nmz787> Noxz: I don't think you can rinse/reuse the pores... they give 512 (nano) pores per cell/thingy... and only expect about 2/3 of them will work for decent amount of time... and they stop working during a run
<nmz787> at least from people who've used them @home
<nmz787> DNA extraction can take between 10 and 30 mins usually
<Noxz> Sebastian Cocioba says you can rinse them, sure a somewhat short lifespan, but more than just one run
<nmz787> that's who I was quoting actually :)
<nmz787> so I guess he would know
<Noxz> I am going off more from talks he has done, I havent really read anything he's written
<Noxz> yet
<Noxz> I need to
<nmz787> segmenting the DNA isn't required actually
<nmz787> the minION gives two protocols
<nmz787> one with segmenting, one without
<nmz787> ah, he's my facebook friend
<nmz787> so we've had random messages
<nmz787> 'quick, I need to check some possible bullshit'
<Noxz> my fb profile was for raves/music event info, mainly, and I quit it a few months back
<Noxz> I may rejoin it later, but I have other stuff to occupy my time with
<Noxz> it wasnt under my real name, so highly unprofessional
<Noxz> does he live on IRC anywhere? ;)
<nmz787> these are the cheapest DNA extraction spin-columns I've seen http://www.epochlifescience.com/Product/PurificationKit/dna_mini.aspx
<nmz787> they will not produce the longest DNA, like a gentler digestive technique combined with magnetic bead isolation
<nmz787> nah, he doesn't seem to use IRC
<nmz787> he uses that one that all the millenials use though
<nmz787> slack I think
<Noxz> we use slack internally at work
<Noxz> and I am somewhat aware of these sort of filter vials from my brief intro into bio
<nmz787> he invited me into it when I signed on to his Patreon thing... but that was mainly to get some lab manual he was working on... so I didn't really hang out there
<nmz787> those columns basically have silica in them, and come with a few different salt solutions of various concentrations
<nmz787> the salt content changes the affinity between DNA and silica
<Noxz> right
<nmz787> so you rinse the cell extract through the column, the DNA binds, you rinse non-bound stuff away, then change collection tubes and rinse with diff salt concentration and the DNA elutes
<Noxz> right
<Noxz> but yeah, good link for inexpensive ones, I bookmarked
<nmz787> I think they sell the solutions separately too... so you could just buy those and I could send you some columns
<nmz787> I have a box of 50 that I've only used 1 or 2 of since buying earlier this year
<Noxz> welp, lemme finish the house, rebuild the chemlab, then I'll get into bio more
<nmz787> :)
<Noxz> there's a few things I want to do, but initially mainly gene knockout
<nmz787> story of my life, pretty much
<nmz787> have you seen the howto for making a gene gun?
<Noxz> yeah, last night
<nmz787> from whipped cream dispenser
<Noxz> simple w/ bicycle CO2 infaltor cartriges
<Noxz> heh, I was a mechanic at a bike shop
<Noxz> and we sold them there
<Noxz> whipped cream is nitrous, no?
<Noxz> Helium is used in commercial guns
<Noxz> I'd be curious if Argon would work
<nmz787> I don't think the gas matters
<Noxz> well, more inert the better
<nmz787> it was just a source of high-pressure parts with a trigger
<Noxz> you'd likely not want to use O2
<nmz787> the size of the gold particles matters I know
<Noxz> (I have Ar and O2 tanks)
<Noxz> 1-3 microns from what I read
<Noxz> and Tungsten can be used as well
<Noxz> I can get 1lbs of 1 micron W for $132 USD
<Noxz> 1-5 micron for $109
<Noxz> looks like that source does not have Au
<Noxz> I've ordered from them before, have an account
<Noxz> every new powder tyou want you gotta sign a new disclaimer or whatever
<nmz787> this one uses bike pump, so maybe what you saw: http://www.oreilly.com/biocoder/issues/BioCoderSpring2016.pdf
<Noxz> for purpose on all if them I write 'graphene research'
<Noxz> yeah, that one is on youtube
<Noxz> there was like 3 or so people with them easily found on yt
<nmz787> cool
<Noxz> enough that I got the gist
<nmz787> I have been focusing on actually making the DNA, been glad others have kept working on delivery :)
<Noxz> and is more applicable for various organisms, over crispr
<nmz787> I started my biotech B.S. 10 years ago this month :O
<Noxz> do you order primers? are are you making them?
<nmz787> I don't think I really realized DNA synthesis was the major bottleneck for another year or two
<nmz787> nah, I am actually working on the polymer synthesis level
<nmz787> hoping to see the day when either my efforts or others will achieve million/billion times cheaper synthesis
<nmz787> so I can actually use these tools like I do computer compilers (where I often have lots of typos and compile errors)
<Noxz> $50-120 for a 60 AA length primer isnt too bad
<Noxz> for some general purpose
<Noxz> sure, $250 to test one gene knockout isnt too cheap
<Noxz> but if it's all I want to do?
<nmz787> I had grand ideas originally for actually doing stuff with new/funky/remixed DNA... but got stuck when I realized my ideas would cost millions in synthesis and other lab work
<nmz787> nah, most interesting things are more than 1 or 2 enzymes/genes/regulators
<nmz787> when you get to 10 genes, you're basically in a money-pit
<Noxz> my initial test case will be knockout/in
<nmz787> yeah knockout is simple
<nmz787> my original motivator was thinking if only we could add an oil pump into the side/wall of a high oil content algae... we could just grow it and skim the top of a pond for oil for biofuel use
<Noxz> from recent reads, will flank the gene in question w/ 40 AA pairs, and then the knockin gene w/ 20 or so, using a 60 lenght primer, *2 for both ends, and you PCR the knockin/repalcement/nulld gene with it to get the dna you want to transfect
<nmz787> good old homologous recombination
<Noxz> and then some mutagensis will form, yeah
<Noxz> that is likely the route I will be looking into, first
<Noxz> w/ a gene gun
<Noxz> but I still want to sequence the strains I have on hand
<Noxz> the issue of ordering some known standard is always going to be 'difficult' to get for hobbyists
<nmz787> do you know the-odin.com ?
<nmz787> also, 16S rRNA sequencing shouldn't be too much
<nmz787> for strain barcoding
<Noxz> yeah
<Noxz> I wish I got into this stuff when I still lieved in the bay area
<Noxz> would have visited the guy who runs it
<Noxz> Josiah Zayner
<Noxz> I will likely get some stuff from him, like the PCR and centrifuge and such
<nmz787> I stayed at the-odin for a night the last time I was down there ~2 months ago
<nmz787> seemed like a reasonable operation
<Noxz> does he have a day job or is that it currently?
<nmz787> that's it from what I know
<nmz787> he is also a facebook friend
<Noxz> yeah, I figured that too ;)
<nmz787> saw yesterday they have hundreds of thousands in revenue
<Noxz> I may make a fb account for my science stuff once I get the lab atleast ready to be built again
<Noxz> oh wow
<Noxz> few videos of the ktis in use on yt, so it kinda made me ??
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