Topic for #homecmos is now Homebrew CMOS and MEMS foundry design | http://code.google.com/p/homecmos/ | Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/homecmos-logs/
<kristianpaul> CNC? you could start tring some FDM/Electrolitic building block system too ;-)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> one thing at a time
<azonenberg> I want a joystick that lets me move it around and snap pictures on command
<azonenberg> then the ability to script it for scanning of large areas
<azonenberg> so i can image an entire chip (or even wafer) without human interaction
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<kanzure> azonenberg: are you practiced in the art of chip decapitation?
<azonenberg> kanzure: I wrote this article http://siliconpr0n.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tutorial:tutorial_on_epoxy_decapsulation
<azonenberg> you tell me
<kanzure> tough call, hmmmm
<azonenberg> I don't currently have any HNO3 in my lab, I usually let my friend john (the other guy behind siliconpr0n) do the wet lab work
<azonenberg> He also has a computer-controlled microscope which is able to do automated mass imaging of a large die while i have to take all my pictures by hand
<azonenberg> i'm catching up, ordered the first batch of parts to CNC my microscope today
<azonenberg> and i now have a homebrewed fume hood so i'm less concerned about fumes from decapping
<azonenberg> Why do you ask?
<hideo> azonenberg: are you walter white?
<azonenberg> hideo: lol no
<hideo> :P
<azonenberg> I do have blue crystals in a cabinet
<azonenberg> But they're blue raspberry rock candy
<azonenberg> One of my roommates was watching the show and i freaked him out tossing the packet at him :P
<azonenberg> you should have seen the look on his face
<hideo> hahaha
<hideo> you don't watch bb?
<azonenberg> Not regularly
<azonenberg> i've seen a bit here and there
<hideo> it's really good
<azonenberg> Most of what I "watch" these days is man pages
<azonenberg> and journal articles
<hideo> it's the only tv i watch
<azonenberg> I probably have another month or so of work to do on general lab tooling
<azonenberg> then build the spin coater and mask aligner
<azonenberg> at which point i can start pushing hard
<azonenberg> see if i can get good patterning in, say, spin-on glass across a full 2" wafer
<azonenberg> I also need to get a good anisotropic silicon etchant and photoresist developer that are metal-free
<azonenberg> I've been using NaOH and KOH in the past since MEMS aren't ion sensitive
<azonenberg> but if i want to do CMOS that'll have to stop
<azonenberg> TMAH is a bit nasty but i have an interesting idea
<azonenberg> Since in, i think, both cases it's the OH- that does the dirty work
<azonenberg> what's a nice nonmetallic organic base that's easy to find? Ammonium hydroxide
<azonenberg> Somewhat more volatile than TMAH but much easier to get hold of
<hideo> try it and see
<azonenberg> For developer, you dont need very aggressive
<hideo> yeah
<azonenberg> And for etch, well
<azonenberg> i dont expect to do through-wafer etches with it
<azonenberg> for MEMS i can use KOH
<hideo> tmah is usually diluted as developer
<azonenberg> Yeah
<azonenberg> What i mean is, i want to put alignment marks in the silicon
<azonenberg> to line implants up against
<azonenberg> That will also function as a test etch for finding orientation if i'm doing KOH etc later on
<azonenberg> So i only need to go down maybe half a micron, enough to leave a visible edge
<azonenberg> Thats a more difficult problem i can deal with later
<azonenberg> but if straight ammonia, perhaps diluted, is usable as developer i'm fine
<azonenberg> Just have to get something with the same OH- concentration as ~1% TMAH
<azonenberg> iirc thats whats usually used
<azonenberg> but for aggressive Si etching you'd use 30% KOH and probably TMAH at a similar concentration
<hideo> do you have DI water?
<azonenberg> As of now, just distilled
<azonenberg> I've focused on lithography and it's pure enough for that
<azonenberg> i haven't attempted to make transistors
<azonenberg> it's sat in the plastic jugs for enough months it probably isnt DI grade
<azonenberg> They're HDPE though so it probably hasnt picked up many metal ions
<azonenberg> CMOS is a whole other ball game in terms of the necessary purity etc
<azonenberg> thats why i'm trying to do a comb drive as a first step
<azonenberg> it demonstrates patterning at the necessary scales but is much more tolerant of ionic contamination
<azonenberg> And i think i can pull it off in <110> Si with KOH if i angle things right
<hideo> gah unfortunately i can't say much
<azonenberg> My plan is to start out by taking a wafer with a single metal layer over oxide, pattern that single metal layer
<azonenberg> then put overglass over it
<azonenberg> do flip-chip BGA bonding
<azonenberg> Just metal, no active components
<azonenberg> That will let me test metal patterning as well as packaging
<azonenberg> The next step will be two or three metal layers with CMP in between
<azonenberg> I'm tentatively thinking copper damascene in spin-on glass
<hideo> cmp? chem-mechanical polishing?
<azonenberg> yes
<azonenberg> if i use thick SOG as the ILD, i might get enough planarity from that
<azonenberg> Anyway, once i demonstrate a full BEOL process including packaging and flip-chip bonding
<azonenberg> then i'm going to try doing a MEMS FEOL process for doing the comb drive
<azonenberg> At the end of that i should be able to make a comb drive in FCBGA
<azonenberg> four balls, two on each electrode (for stability)
<azonenberg> 500um wafer thickness on the rim for stability, then back-thinned to ~50um in the active area
<azonenberg> then through wafer etch with the finger pattern
<azonenberg> it wont be nearly as nice as if i had DRIE but i dont know of any homemade MEMS ever
<azonenberg> The next step will be to duplicate Jeri Ellsworth's CMOS FEOL process and shrink to the 12.5μm node using my litho process
<azonenberg> and stick my BEOL on top
<azonenberg> At which point i should be able to make a 2" wafer full of CD4000 chips and hopefully at least a few of them will work
<azonenberg> complete with overglass around the bond pads and solder bumps
<azonenberg> That will be the biggest milestone
<azonenberg> from then on it's just improving yields until i can make something as big as a microprocessor
<azonenberg> Debating between making an i4004 (from the original released mask art)
<azonenberg> and trying to make a custom CPU
<azonenberg> Do you know if anyone's ever made a BGA-packaged i4004? ;)
<hideo> nope
<azonenberg> The other possibility, like i said, is a custom CPU
<azonenberg> Depends in part on where my yields are at that point and what process node i'm at
<azonenberg> i can get cheap plastic film masks down to 12.5μm design rules (3.125μm pixels, 4 pixel min-feature design rules)
<azonenberg> if i want to go finer i'm probably going to have to either kick out major $$$ for chrome on glass
<azonenberg> Or ditch contact lithography
<azonenberg> move to projection and build myself a stepper
<azonenberg> with 4x reduction or so
<azonenberg> Right now i'm using projection but there's no stepping/scanning
<azonenberg> so i'm limited to one objective FOV, which is tiny
<azonenberg> i'm moving to full-wafer contact in the short term but i want to make a stepper/scanner in the long term
<azonenberg> It also depends on where i am in my education/career at that point
<azonenberg> once i get out of school and save up for a few years i'm planning to build myself a house (if you can call it that) with a class 1000 cleanroom and a few other nice lab facilities
<azonenberg> i could quite plausibly be able to do submicron features reliably, though likely not with great yields
<azonenberg> RIE isn't even out of the question in the long term
<azonenberg> if i could get the proper plumbing installed and find some cheap stuff used from an old 500nm fab someone is shutting down etc
<azonenberg> SF6 only would probably be a good initial setup
<azonenberg> Since if i could do nice vertical trenches in oxide, i could do copper damascene
<azonenberg> The first step would be sputtering or evaporation, i NEED in-house metal deposition capability more than really sharp etches
<azonenberg> i'm pretty sure i can do at least 12μm features reliably with wet etching
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<Sync> azonenberg: for that feature density you don't really need a cleanroom
<Sync> we do most stuff on laminar flow benches and yields are good
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<azonenberg> Sync: good to know
<azonenberg> i want to go smaller thoguh
<azonenberg> 500nm or even 350 in the long run