<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh I copy-pasted some messages in here to send when you returend
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but they're gone
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
have you seen Sorella's work?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you'd find it interesting.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5:26 PM <Sorella> That... well, that might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's doable :3 You also get specific versioning for the PL concepts, that you'd not be able to carry on a text-based versioning tool.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5:27 PM <Sorella> So rich diffs and efficient versioning of complex stuff would be supported
<alexgordon>
1 sec
<alexgordon>
ok
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hm?
<alexgordon>
what is that about
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: similar to your old plans wrt whatever-it-was
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
bhasa
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
in some ways.
<alexgordon>
oh I see
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
at least in terms of breaking code away from files, and thinking more in terms of … well, for yours, a database
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah I have been thinking about that too, but no solutions
<alexgordon>
I took down the website because it's not actively developed anymore and doesn't even work
<alexgordon>
but the code is still up in case anybody wants the source for god knows what reason
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<pikajude>
because he's more personable than i am
<pikajude>
my coworker got a raise and i have 2 years seniority on him
<pikajude>
i'm salty
<pikajude>
drats
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<purr>
<eboy> ohhhhhhhhh
<jfhbrook>
why don't you just be more personable pikajude ?
<jfhbrook>
apparently the trick is to just talk loudly as though you know what you're talking about, and then when you're wrong quickly acknowledge and continue on as though you were right all along
<jfhbrook>
for serious though, that sucks
<jfhbrook>
I haven't gotten a raise in a while, and while I feel like I'm fairly compensated I also get the impression I could be **more fairly** compensated so
<jfhbrook>
I get how that feels, I guess is what I'm saying
<jaawerth>
2 weeks ago, I gave my boss a demo for a thing I was working on and he was pretty critical of it. Couple days ago, I gave a demo to the business-side stake-holder, with my boss there. I checked out the same version I showed my boss, since the updates aren't really demo-ready yet, and turned it into a discussion about where we can take the concept and what the ROI would be
<jaawerth>
this time, my boss said later he thought it "looked great." Same exact version. He doesn't understand my job at all
<jfhbrook>
is your boss a senior dev turned line manager, or a PM or what
<jaawerth>
CIO
<jfhbrook>
sounds like someone with an MBA and having had more than one iPad in their time
<jaawerth>
he's really high-level and usually I have to explain both the use-case and my solution to it, and he doesn't think very abstractly, so he's often expecting PoC things to look exactly how it will look to the end user
<jaawerth>
Moral of the story is: from now on I'm inviting other people to all my demo's with him, hahaha
<jfhbrook>
yeah word
<jaawerth>
he thought it looked great the second time because he saw I'd impressed the other guy
<ljharb>
seniority shouldn't matter at all tho
<ljharb>
"i've avoided getting fired for longer than you" isn't a qualification
<pikajude>
fair enough
<pikajude>
i'm also a more productive developer than him
<ljharb>
that is a qualification
<ljharb>
but, ability to interact pleasantly with coworkers is a part of productivity
<pikajude>
no shit
<pikajude>
i'm not suggesting the machine doesn't work as intended
<pikajude>
it's just cathartic to vent once in awhile
<ljharb>
fair. it's super frustrating when interpersonal issues interfere with career progress
<ljharb>
at my last job i did not get a promotion while another engineer, who was much more of an asshole, did
<ljharb>
they got away with it by, the previous feedback cycle, switching from our team of 10 to a team of 3, so they had less people they could piss off
<ljharb>
needless to say i was pretty (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ about it
<pikajude>
manipulating the team size is a part of productivity
<pikajude>
or something.
<pikajude>
whatever
<ljharb>
lol yeah
<purr>
idklol
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi all
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5:05 PM <+ljharb> seniority shouldn't matter at all tho
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5:05 PM <+ljharb> "i've avoided getting fired for longer than you" isn't a qualification
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the *knowledge gained* is; and the point of seniority is to acknowledge the kind of soft-skills (or even hard skills) that are both 1. difficult to measure objectively, *and* 2. very very consistently come with experience, both professional and social.
<pikajude>
well really the reason i'm angry is because i've spent the last 2.5 years being paid under market value because nobody told me how to negotiate and i didn't think to ask
<pikajude>
plus, i didn't get a signing bonus because i didn't know they existed
<pikajude>
and i've had to do a whole lot of shit to overcome my brain's basic inability to function at a competent level most of the time
<pikajude>
but in the end, the purpose of the capitalist machine is to squeeze out the most profit possible using the least effort
<pikajude>
and bringing me up to speed, socially, with your bog standard developer is certainly not least effort
<ljharb>
ELLIOTTCABLE: right, so seniority is a poor proxy for what you actually want to measure
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ljharb: yes, but by definition, it's the *only* proxy.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
as in: ‘seniority’ translates directly to ‘a set of skills that can only be easily measured by time spent in the field.’
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you can argue whether those skills exist, I suppose, but I think it's pretty clear that they do.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
*Especially* with developers, many of whom suffer from some sort of social disability or other, and who were able to get through high-school or college without working through it: sometimes the only way to see if a person is even remotely competent to participate in a team, is to see if they've survived long enough in the industry.
<ljharb>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i don't think it's the only proxy
<ljharb>
i think that's where good managers and feedback processes can shine
<ljharb>
if you want to see if someone is competent to participate in a team, watching them do just that is great
<ljharb>
but assuming that they'd not have survived, i think, is why there's so many senior people that suck