<ja>
incomprehensibly: oh! so you actually meant what you said about working on some right now, cool! ^O^
<bluebie>
not saying blender is the ultimate in UI design, just that it's much less terrible than just about every alternative
<ja>
bluebie: yeah, don’t even get me started on Maya…
<ja>
alexgordon: huzzah! /me reads all
<bluebie>
and even if the ui was worse than the alternatives i'd gladly learn one bad UI than have to learn five entirely different slightly more optimal ui's to get the same stuff done
<bluebie>
blender is the emacs of vfx.. you don't need to ever leave it's loving embrace
<ja>
lol
<purr>
lol
<ja>
bluebie: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<ja>
-what
<purr>
<alexgordon> learning C++ before learning C is like having an orgy before you've even masturbated
<ja>
lol
<ja>
rofl
<alexgordon>
LOL
* ja
irl chuckles out loud
<ja>
-what
<purr>
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: lol don't be a whitequark
<ja>
-what
<purr>
<sephr> he was clearly moaning "SEPHR"
<alexgordon>
ja: so I hope it makes sense. it certainly makes a lot _more_ sense after writing it
<bluebie>
uuuuurgh this is so frustrating
<ja>
alexgordon: I love how it starts with “Macros all the way down.”
<bluebie>
i think i have to just ditch video textures and figure out some shit way to hack it together in the compositor
<alexgordon>
ja: that is the spirit of it
<ja>
whatcha making, if I can ask, bluebie?
<bluebie>
vfx for scavengers of the scarlet wastes
<ja>
bluebie: o.o a real tv show?! cool!
<bluebie>
youtube
<ja>
s/tv/web
<bluebie>
scavengerswebseries.com
<bluebie>
next episode is coming out in a week or so
<bluebie>
so... dooooooom
<ja>
looks “real” still, with above average production values
<ja>
jeez
<bluebie>
yep
<bluebie>
ken does 2d, i'm head of 3d vfx
<bluebie>
almost everything is 2d :P
<ja>
lol, nice bleeps-and-bloops–y music in the season 2 trailer
<purr>
lol
<ja>
and it looks pretty Borderlands-ish. kinda. sorta. in the cool way, I mean.
<bluebie>
Ken Abbott, director , camera guy and after effects guy
<alexgordon>
and ruby for that matter
<ja>
alexgordon: Ruby nor CS doesn’t use @ for symbols but instead for member/instance variabls. Now you’re just testing if I’m awake.
<ja>
bluebie: Ah! I thought it might’ve been someone on this channel.
<alexgordon>
ja: yes for member/instance variables
<alexgordon>
that's what I wrote :P
<alexgordon>
@action() // means self.action(). self is always the lexical object, not always the function's dynamic "this"
<bluebie>
oh of course not
<alexgordon>
ja: oh you mean this bit? @%
<alexgordon>
I guess I wasn't clear
<ja>
alexgordon: yes, tht!
<bluebie>
I'm only in here because irccloud auto joined me :p
<alexgordon>
ja: by symbol I mean literally a symbol
<ja>
bluebie: you say “of course not” like IRC is a curse. :B
<alexgordon>
like unicode symbols
<ja>
or bad in some way
<ja>
alexgordon: oh. wtf! haha
<alexgordon>
! @ # $ % ^ & * are all symbols
<ja>
so either @ or %
<ja>
right
<bluebie>
yes. correct
<ja>
you should clarify that
<alexgordon>
I was going to call them punctuation
<ja>
bluebie: O_O but…
<alexgordon>
but @ isn't really punctuation either
<ja>
alexgordon: true. it shoudl be clarified though, at least for example-driven people like me, since you don’t have multiple examples of strings nor numbers
<ja>
so it’s confusing and inconsistent to have two symbol exmaples
<ja>
^_____^
<alexgordon>
I'll call it a "punctuation symbol"
<alexgordon>
and use && as the example instead
<ja>
“operators” is too broad/imprecise?
<alexgordon>
yeah because it's talking about tokens
<ja>
ah, yeah, alright
<alexgordon>
operator is a later stage thing
<alexgordon>
jihva doesn't really have operators anyway
<ja>
right
<alexgordon>
it has macros :P
<ja>
hahaha
<ja>
sure ^_^
<ja>
I like how the whole language is representable in JSON
<ja>
“That is very abstract, sorry.” lol
<purr>
lol
<ja>
purr: shut it
<ja>
:E
<ja>
bluebie: how can you hate/dislike IRC?
<bluebie>
you ask like this is a cult
<ja>
and have you played Borderlands? ^_^
<ja>
this *is* a cult
<ja>
a cult of using *asterisks* for *bolding*, among other things
<bluebie>
irc is an awful protocol inhabited almost entirely by intollerable nerds obsessed with computers, trains, and surface level script kiddie hacking
<bluebie>
I have played borderlands 2!
<ja>
haha, I can’t argue with that
<bluebie>
in episode 2x2 there's a loaderbot half buried in the sand of the dunes on their approach to rivet town, which I ripped out of my steam copy of borderlands xD
<ja>
cool! did you like it?
<bluebie>
yep
<ja>
zomg, nice! X3
<alexgordon>
bluebie: ...trains?
<ja>
as an homage/reference? how conspicuous is it?
<bluebie>
part of the scavengers world includes acid rain, but.. ah... "not that kind of acid", and as a result, the main characters, well some of them at least, are hallucinating video game style references and things all the time and a lot of those hallucinations are shown to the viewer too
<bluebie>
sorry I mean episode 2x1!
<bluebie>
2x2 isn't out yet.. will be in a week or so tho
<bluebie>
gearbox software are actually fans and gave us permission to use any of their stuff on any non commercial things
<ja>
LOL, nice! This really sounds like something worth taking a look at, bluebie ^o^
<purr>
LOL
<ja>
How lovely that Gearbox gave you permission to use their stuff
<ja>
Wait, isn’t this commercial at all in some way?
<ja>
alexgordon: How did you come up with the idea for Jihva? And what will you be using it for, if anything? How much of it is implemented and working at the moment? Explain yourself at once, sir.
<alexgordon>
ja: rurik was asking how to make a language yesterday, so I made a quick stack language in an hour to show him
<ja>
haha! that seems pretty hardcore, alexgordon
<alexgordon>
stack languages are easy :P
<alexgordon>
ja: but I've been working on this stuff for years, I started off making compilers in C++
<ja>
:B sure, when you’ve made multiple ones before
<alexgordon>
but I could never finish them because it's suck a clusterfuck
<ja>
lol, I dare not even imagine
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
so I began writing python scripts to autogen the C++ code for the compilers
<ja>
XD I see… Go on…
<alexgordon>
but then I had the idea this year of writing the compiler in JS, and then creating customisation hooks in the compiler so that the language could extend itself
<alexgordon>
and also of using JSON for everything
<alexgordon>
then yesterday I had the idea of applying all of _that_ to a stack language
<alexgordon>
what I want to do is separate the syntax from the semantics completely. so the syntax is completely general and has NO semantics
<ja>
`postmacro a'tight each b'expr` wats a “tight”?
<alexgordon>
^ that is this tree-of-balanced-lines representation
<alexgordon>
ja: a tight expr
<ja>
sounds very Lisp/Scheme-y
<ja>
alexgordon: how is it tight?
<alexgordon>
yeah it _is_ very lispy
<ja>
deliciously lispy
<alexgordon>
so it only accepts a subset of expressions
<alexgordon>
that have high precedence
<alexgordon>
so they're "tight"
<alexgordon>
like foo.bar.baz() is tight
<alexgordon>
because it uses x.y and f()
<alexgordon>
which are both high precedence expressions
<alexgordon>
whereas a, b, c is not tight
<alexgordon>
because comma is low precedence
<ja>
oh, right, I think I get it
<alexgordon>
in the middle is opprec
<alexgordon>
1 + 2
<ja>
OPPERATION RE…what?
<ja>
OPERATOR*
<ja>
no wait … wat?
<alexgordon>
OPerator PRECedence
<ja>
lol of course
<purr>
lol
<ja>
purr: :E
<alexgordon>
those are also tight
<alexgordon>
2 + 3 * 4 + 5
<ja>
alexgordon: but precedence is (also?) defined with numbers like 1000 like in Swift?
<alexgordon>
yes
<ja>
or is that only for infix operators?
<alexgordon>
numbers for all operators in the table
<ja>
“to make the proles happy” XD
<ja>
alright
<alexgordon>
I guess I should have written opprec and not tight
<alexgordon>
since otherwise I have to think of a name for foo.bar.baz()
<alexgordon>
maybe just call it "ops"
<ja>
@_@
<ja>
right.
<ja>
I’m not sure if I dare read more of this, alexgordon. I’ll just start wanting to write in this!
<ja>
if it was more mature, of course
<ja>
and had lots o’ libs, of course
<ja>
and a large community, of course
<ja>
wait, you said intended to compile to JS? O.O
<alexgordon>
yes
<ja>
so this could be the next CoffeeScript?
<alexgordon>
sure
<ja>
alex pls
<ja>
make it so
<alexgordon>
haha
<ja>
“self is always the lexical object, not always the function's dynamic "this"”
* ja
does not fully comprehend
<alexgordon>
like
<alexgordon>
you know in coffeescript there's => and ->
<alexgordon>
self is this in a =>
<alexgordon>
whereas this is this in a ->
<ja>
yes, I am a dork when it comes to language terminology like “lexical”, I know
<ja>
ah
<ja>
yeah…
<ja>
right… so…
<alexgordon>
it's about lexical scoping vs dynamic scoping
<ja>
so @action() functions like CS’ fat arrows?
<alexgordon>
well @ does yeah
<ja>
yeah
<ja>
alright
<alexgordon>
@ means self, and self means "the object of this class"
<alexgordon>
whereas this can be rebound
<alexgordon>
so $(this).val() but @ivar
<ja>
but does Jihva even have the concept of `this`?! doesn’t that sorta depend on it supporting OOP?
<ja>
I guess not, maybe, actually… I don’t even know…
<ja>
right
<ja>
sounds like the way I wish CS worked
<ja>
s/CS/CoffeeScript
<alexgordon>
yeah I only added that for JS
<ja>
CoffeeScript needs another abbreviation that doesn’t sound like we’re talking about Counter-Strike or compsci
<alexgordon>
c-sharp!
<alexgordon>
I remember when coffeescript started it used extension .cs
<alexgordon>
then someone said "you know guys, that's already taken"
<ja>
ah, I see
<ja>
lol, yeah
<purr>
lol
<bluebie>
ja: nope, not currently
<ja>
I wish they had gone with something shorter than .coffee
<bluebie>
maybe starting patreon soon, or might monetise later videos, but not those ones. we don't run ads on them or anything
<ja>
and made CofScri or so it’s official abbreviation :B
<ja>
I’m close to not even bitching about the ‘T’ in “YouTube” not being capitalized in the footer of your website
<bluebie>
i'm i'm so angry at belnder right now tho
<incomprehensibly>
i tried to make some wii shop channel music
<incomprehensibly>
then i tried to make some evil drone ambient music
<bluebie>
we're screening 2x2 internally in two days time and I have no idea how i'm going to work around this horrible bug
<ja>
this ken person sounds great
<incomprehensibly>
then i ran out of patience
<bluebie>
he's pretty excellent
<ja>
bluebie: :< didn’t you get some help from the #blender peeps?
<bluebie>
except he procrastinated for ages about giving me the media I needed and now i'm screwed and we probably just have to use previs for one of the scenes!!
<bluebie>
#blender didn't even reply
<ja>
>.< oh.
<ja>
what’s “previs”¿
<bluebie>
previsualisation
<bluebie>
the draft you do to figure out what you're doing before you do it
<ja>
330 nicks and no reply?! wtf
<ja>
ah!
<ja>
I guess I understand what you mean, but not really actually ^-^
<ja>
oh, nice, the episodes are actually more than 1-2 minutes? ^o^
<ja>
or maybe that’s only S1E1 one
<ja>
-one
<bluebie>
not sure how long 2x2 is
<bluebie>
2x1 is like 20 mins iirc
<ja>
o.o oh my
<alexgordon>
ja: it occurs to me that what we really need are macros that tokens using regexes
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
I have no idea how to write a regex engine though
<bluebie>
the voodoo dance of using jpegs instead of pngs seems to have appeased the vengeful gods of software bugs
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<incomprehensibly>
bye
<incomprehensibly>
: (
<bluebie>
as a software engineer i can't begin to fathom how the file codec would cause the viewport to display the wrong image from a list.. but.. okay.. whatever
<ja>
that sounds blender-level buggy, bluebie ʘ‿ʘ
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<bluebie>
usually I find blender to be quite solid, which is why i'm so caught off guard by this
<bluebie>
the only other feature which is buggy to me is the boolean operator, but no more so than the one in openscad.. doing booleans on meshes appears to just be a dumb idea
<bluebie>
I think shapejs has the right idea - if you need to do constructive geometry, do it in voxels
<ja>
great fight sequence in S1E3 ^____^
* ja
looks up openscad and shapejs
<gkatsev>
s01e03 of what?
<bluebie>
scavengerswebseries.com
<ja>
gkatsev: bluebie’s interwebs show
<bluebie>
it's finally working
<ja>
hooray! \o/
<ec>
hi all
<ja>
hi ec
<ja>
how r u
<ec>
wait it's a real show that I can watch
<ec>
I thought it was either a future planned thing or a facebook joke or something, I think, whenever I saw that name
<bluebie>
NOOOOOOOOO
<bluebie>
it works in the viewport now but when i do the final render the backplate is purple whyyyyyyy blender
<bluebie>
well at least I know exactly how i'm never doing effects in blender again!!
<ja>
>.< what a hell, bluebie
<bluebie>
imagetexture is a garbage node made of trash and sadness
<ja>
what will you be using instead in the future, bluebie?
<bluebie>
I wont
<bluebie>
I just wont do it this way
<bluebie>
no stationary video textures
<bluebie>
probably do the camera moves in 2d and motrack that and composite
<bluebie>
compositing and match moving work great
<bluebie>
it's how most effects in scavengers is done, it's just in this instance we didn't record the video that way initially so had to fix it in post >_<
<ec>
god, I love alva noto
<ec>
more than life ;_;
<ja>
ohh
<ec>
alva noto and chopin
<ec>
are like, what i care about bsides paws and sex
<ec>
and dogs
<ec>
okay so I care about quite a few things
<ec>
BUT ALVA NOTO AND CHOPIN ARE TWO OF THOSE THINGS ;_;
<ec>
like, maybe some of the dirtiest code I've ever written; and most of you have *seen* some of my dirty code, so you should be very afraid
<rarik>
will you be awake in a few hours from now?
<ec>
in sh, you can only have *one* ‘array’ to work with (the positional-parameters array; basically, the ‘original arguments to the program’ … thing is, it's mutable, so it *is* a real array that you can work with for array-like purposes.)
<ec>
rarik: hm, possibly. it's late as fuck, but I'm out at a diner, working late. 'sup?
<rarik>
i am currently in college
<ec>
so, to preform tasks that basically require multiple arrays, I'm using the positional-parameters-array of a *second function* as my work-space, by passing in [*number of elements of the first array*, the elements of the first array, null], and then using the space from (N..) onwards as the second workspace-array
<ec>
rarik: might want to phrase that as ‘I am currently at college’, because ‘I am currently in college’ sounds like a statement of a general truth: You're registered with a university.
<ec>
also of note, there *is* a time when there's two extant *true arrays* in a POSIX sh:
<ec>
during the first iteration of an `for` loop, if you immediately `set --`.
<ec>
(a copy of the original positional parameters is made, and used to loop; so you can work with a second array *while iterating the first, original one*)
<ec>
ljharb: you might find this interesting, lol -^
<purr>
lol
<ljharb>
hm?
<ljharb>
ooh
<ljharb>
that does seem interesting but i have no idea how to use that
<ec>
hahaha
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<ec>
ljharb: well, for instance, I'm passing a *selected subset* of some original arguments to a second function, while retaining the full original set for passing to something else.
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<ec>
the traditional approaches to that would require squashing the argument(s) into a string, which has all the obvious traditional shell-script pitfalls
<ljharb>
ok so that sounds very useful
<ec>
yeah this is gonna work great, ogm
<ljharb>
i still don't know how to apply it
<ljharb>
but, if you like, wanted to PR a bunch of cleanups using the technique into `nvm` i'd be stoked
<ec>
wait what do you mean then, if ‘how to apply it’ ≠ ‘how it's useful’
<ljharb>
let's go with "it's been a long day and i'm tired"
<ec>
oh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's specific to a very specific class of problem, like the one I'm now solving
<ec>
I don't think it's necessarily useful anywhere in particular for you; I was just sharing Cool Code Things to one of the other sh-people I know :P
<ljharb>
oh
<ec>
might have mis-interpreted lol
<purr>
lol
<ljharb>
it might be useful for me tho, i dunno
<ljharb>
i'll noodle on it
* ec
nods
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<ec>
noodle ahhah
<ec>
flop.
<ec>
flop
<ec>
-find noodle
<purr>
ec: Could not find `noodle`.
<ec>
I'm sleep-deprived too
<ec>
-find sleep
<purr>
ec: night everyone!
<ec>
-find slee
<purr>
ec: Found: nosleep, sleep, and liar
<ec>
-nosleep
<purr>
ec: had no sleep. Give him/her a break! Also, if you don't want to sleep either: <http://reddit.com/r/nosleep>
<ec>
-liar
<purr>
ec: EITHER GO TO SLEEP OR SHUT UP
<ec>
... omg
<ec>
-factoid liar
<purr>
ec: Popularity: 3, last changed by: gqbe, 1kſ 204ſ 809mſ ago
<ec>
that's a golden one, wow
<ec>
shoulda used that on jfhbrook last night
<rarik>
ec: give me some tasks and i'll finish them after school
<ec>
rarik: well, how long have you got right now?
<ec>
need to get you on the task-list thingie I just switched to. (it's terrible. don't use it for anything else.)
<ec>
(I desperately want a service that provides todo-list functionality, but open to the public)
<bluebie>
turns out blender isn't buggy i'm just too sleep deprived to problem solve properly
<ec>
bluebie: er'time.
<ja>
does anyone here know anything about SIMs and MVNOs?
<ja>
ec probably does
<ja>
but can’t admit
<ec>
nope.
<ja>
due to NDAs
<ja>
right
<ec>
VanguardVivian: your time to shine.
<ja>
is VanguardVivian an MVNO’er?
<ec>
♪~ Lemme take these slippers off, and fuck you wit' my Vans on. ~♪
<ja>
( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
<ec>
no, but VanguardVivian knows more about wireless companies than anybody else I've ever met.
<ja>
oh, nice.
<ja>
sounds cool
* ec
pokes rarik
<ja>
ec: related to my reason for asking: you wouldn’t happen to know of some easy but secret way of hiding your carrier string from the top left of the status bar on iOS, do you?
<ja>
like where it ways “Verizon” or wahtever
<ja>
CONSTNATLY
<ja>
EVEN THOUGH I ALREADY KNOW WHO MY CARRIER IS
<ec>
no, but I know how to get an RSSI indicator instead of a bunch of dumb dots
<ja>
and yes, I can use it to see if I’m on some other carrier’s network but that *never* happens here
<ja>
lol, yeah, I see a lot of people use that
<ec>
(thx VanguardVivian)
<purr>
lol
<ja>
is it really useful?!
<ec>
yep
<ja>
are your networks that shitty?!
<ja>
wtf.
<ec>
nowadays you can even tap it to switch back and forth once you've enabled it
<ec>
wat
<ja>
how do you do that, anyway?
<ja>
lol
<ja>
nice
<ec>
are your networks totally perfect? o_O
<ja>
dude, I live in Europe, you already know the answer! :3
<ja>
but no, not really “perfect” per se… >.>
<ec>
actually, don't
<ec>
> open phone app
<ec>
> dial: *3001*12345*#
<ec>
> hit call
<ec>
shit
<ec>
might have inverted the *#s
<ja>
@_@
<ja>
i wish they’d made a code for that for removing the carrier string
<ja>
they probably have
<ja>
but no one knows
<ec>
*3001#12345#*
<ec>
there we goddamn go
<ec>
for some unknown reason, I have ‘gerget’ aliased to ‘git mergetool’
<ec>
gerget
<ec>
gergetgergetgergetgerget
<ec>
mr gergitt
<ja>
thanks, ec
<ja>
what a weird code
<ja>
oh, you and your git aliases, ec
<ja>
LOL! “Field Test”!
<purr>
LOL
<ja>
omfg
<ja>
and it’s only iPhone 4-sized XD
<ja>
this is epic, ec
<ec>
oh lord there's a guy freaaaaaaing out in the all-night diner I chill at regularly
<ec>
I live literally next-door to this super-classic Chicago 24-hour diner
<incomprehensibly>
-verytired
<ec>
and I go there often to work when I can't focus at home (and tip well, so they love me)
<incomprehensibly>
-headache levels
<incomprehensibly>
of tired
<ec>
but when I go at night, I get to watch all the crazies come out of the woodwork
<ec>
(and drunks, at ~2:15AM)
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<Hrorekr>
ec, I am back home
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<VanguardVivian>
ja: There's no way anymore to hide the carrier name from the iOS status bar without jailbreaking. This is because carrier bundles, the files that specify the carrier name/string as well as other vital settings, used to be unsigned. Unfortunately, Apple began signing these carrier bundles a few years ago. Before that, you could set your carrier string to a
<VanguardVivian>
Batman logo, an Apple symbol, whatever.
<VanguardVivian>
ec: Yes, I've used several MVNOs. They're cool for saving money, but they're all second-rate because carriers prioritize their postpaid and first-party prepaid customers above all else. For example, on AT&T MVNOs, your HSPA+ speed is capped at 4 Mbps and your LTE speed is capped at 8 Mbps, and you aren't allowed to roam on any of AT&T's domestic partners.
<VanguardVivian>
Sorry for the late responses. I actually got to sleep at a reasonable hour. ;)
<VanguardVivian>
And yeah, I was the one who showed ec how to change the iOS status bar from displaying signal dots to actual signal strength as a number
<ljharb>
i've had that turned on for years - the setting has stuck across multiple iphones
<ljharb>
i only changed it on my iPhone 3 but the backup/restores bring it along
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<alexgordon>
-what
<purr>
<nuck> GHOOOOOOSTLY ALGORITHMS
<alexgordon>
-what
<purr>
<Nuck> Pretty sure CoffeeScript is already preoccupied sodomizing itself.
<alexgordon>
-what
<purr>
<alexgordon> I quite like java's generics
<alexgordon>
what
<ja>
VanguardVivian: Thanks for your reply. But if I’m an MVNO myself, shouldn’t it be trivial to set our carrier name to an empty string? My associate/partner/whatevs claims that we’d have to order a whole batch (like at least 5000 or so) newly-printed SIMs in order to set it. I don’t believe it’s on the SIMs. Am I wrong?
<ja>
Ideally I only want to set it to an empty string on one (my) phone/SIM.
<ja>
And not on the whole network.
<VanguardVivian>
It's not technically the SIMs, but functionally it is. The iPhone downloads the carrier bundle from Apple based on the data it reads from the SIM.
<ja>
This is in Europe with our GSM ’n’ all, not in the U.S., if that changes anything.
<alexgordon>
ec: yo
<ja>
I see. From Apple?! I guess our MVNO (we’re not an MVNO ourselves, but a customer of an MVNO, I’m retarded right now, sorry) uploads this to Apple for us?
<ja>
In that case, I guess we’d need a whole other “account” at our MVNO—or support for multiple carrier names at our MVNO—for me to get a clean status bar on iOS? n_n
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<Rurik>
alexgordon,
<alexgordon>
Rurik
<alexgordon>
brb
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<Rurik>
alexgordon, can you give me exercises in language development land
* ja
bangs his head against 5000 SIMs
<Rurik>
ja, SIM?
<Rurik>
ec is probably asleep now
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<ja>
Rurik: Subscriber Identitiy Modules
<ja>
the cards for the phones, yadidimean
<ja>
this is my number one priority
<Rurik>
ahh, SIM card
<ja>
getting rid of the carrier name in my iOS status bars
<ja>
yes
<ja>
module cards, yes
<ja>
I like to call them “abonnentidentitetsmodulkort” instead of “SIM-kort” in Danish just to confuse the fuck out of people
<Rurik>
probably made worse by the danish pronunciation :P
<ja>
no way dude, danish pronunciation is awesome
<ja>
always
<Rurik>
nope
<ja>
*especially* when pronouncing long compound words like that
<ja>
:3
<Rurik>
Norsk er bedre
<ja>
Gu er det ej
<ja>
I spiser fårehoveder
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<alexgordon>
Rurik: have you understood the jihva code?