purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult || topics << 'gamedev'
<eligrey> since elliott has abandoned your poor people, #oftn is willing to take you in
<eligrey> we're a worse cult
<eligrey> i think that's a positive though (who wants to be /more/ cultish?)
<eligrey> i promise to not indoctrinate you people with lies as often as elliott
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<joelteon> ELI5 what the difference is here
<eligrey> joelteon: some cost the CA $1 more in terms of effort (someone needs to google your name and make sure youre real and also check public records)
<eligrey> that $1 more of work justifies $100 more in price
<eligrey> well hypothetically justifies
<eligrey> i dont need ssl since i don't run any interactive websites or priviledged (execution/permissions-wise) websites
<eligrey> i guess it would be nice for my public key, but that's about it
<eligrey> and my wp admin i guess..
<alexgordon> you know whenever I post a comment on HN I immediately regret it
<alexgordon> 1. the time spent to write it is wasted
<alexgordon> 2. if it gets upvoted I don't really care
<alexgordon> 3. if it gets downvoted I feel even more annoyed that I spent all that time to write it
<alexgordon> what's the fucking point
<eligrey> you have to reinforce popular trends within the hivemind
<katlogic> downvote on hn? how does it work?
<eligrey> katlogic: you need enough karma
<katlogic> ah
<eligrey> then you unlock the ability to downvote
<eligrey> i can only downvote comments
<eligrey> i think submission downvoting is like 1000+ karma
<alexgordon> yah
<alexgordon> it used to be less but, karma inflation
<katlogic> 180+ karma
<eligrey> nope
<katlogic> how much do i need to karmawhore?
<eligrey> i have more than 180 and i cant downvote submissions
<alexgordon> I think the same about stackoverflow but I feel I should probably shut up about it because I need other people to write the answers
<katlogic> eligrey: cant downvote comments either
<alexgordon> katlogic: I had like 2000 karma but I gave that shit up
<alexgordon> when HN started the average HNer was smarter than me
<alexgordon> I learnt a lot of useful stuff
<katlogic> yeah, i submitted like 1 karmawhorish link to get a taste whats hn like
<alexgordon> now it's full of idiots
<katlogic> and thats it
<eligrey> someone just needs to make a reddit app with a built-in fake-subreddit that is just hacker news
<eligrey> so i dont have to care so much about it and have its own app
<eligrey> and for it to* have
<katlogic> well, it does have some nice features reddit could use
<alexgordon> I wish there was an HN without
<alexgordon> 1. comments
<alexgordon> 2. stupid startup stories
<katlogic> like the flameburner thing i think its awesome
<katlogic> too much comments, not enough upvotes? off it goess from front page
<alexgordon> yah
<eligrey> limited comment depth keeps discussion literally and metaphorically shallow
<eligrey> i disagree with that part of HN strongly
<alexgordon> the best articles on HN are always the ones with few comments
<eligrey> reddit got it right with unlimited comment depth
<alexgordon> but loads of upvotes
<katlogic> eligrey: I beg to differ. Its the closest thing i've seen to saging.
<katlogic> its simply metric autism is rampant in that thread
<katlogic> so it gets autosaged organically
<eligrey> i don't mean the cases where people are constantly spamming responses down and down
<katlogic> if you need to discuss, use fucking irc, this ought to motivate to present clear points (be it tldr) and not argue.
<eligrey> but when there are actually constructive discussions that are in the form of replies to comments
<katlogic> yeah, same thing like on chans happens then
<eligrey> well-moderated subreddits can pull off good commenting
<katlogic> same thread is started
<katlogic> like the lennart thing
<katlogic> like 10 threads
<eligrey> mods kill chains quickly on all of the science-related subreddits
<katlogic> with raging autism, though
<katlogic> but thats kinda justified nerdrage
<katlogic> because the hate of systemd is well deserved and ever present
<katlogic> eligrey: yeah, definitely one-on-one sperging could use some autokill
<katlogic> though i think automod does something of the sorts already
<alexgordon> sooo I'm getting some of the way there in writing furrow's type system
<alexgordon> progress!
<alexgordon> :P
<alexgordon> nah that's just the output from my command to generate the typechecker
<alexgordon> basically I have definition files which are just "ParseTreeType { <typesystem code> } ..."
<alexgordon> then it creates actual C++ code from that
<alexgordon> hm it would a mistake to start on typechecking before primary sema
<alexgordon> loads of stuff that needs to be lowered into an AST
<alexgordon> e.g.
<alexgordon> for x in y { ... }
<alexgordon> parses as
<alexgordon> for (x in y) { ... }
<alexgordon> I first need to take the expression and make sure it's an InExpr
<alexgordon> then turn that into an ASTForStmt which appropriately handles x as a pattern, not a normal rhs expression
* alexgordon is talking to himself
* katlogic tries to coerce his bastardized coffeescript compiler into producing compiler assisted coroutines and hygienic macros
<katlogic> so far its immense trainwreck
<katlogic> JS, WHY U NO BE SCHEME
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<devyn> List of Super NES enhancement chips:
<devyn> ST018: Used for AI functionality in Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shogi 2. It was discovered to be a 21.47 MHz, 32-bit ARMv3 processor
<devyn> at what point is it no longer a SNES?
<devyn> also, the Apple IIGS apparently had the same chip in it as the SNES
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<devyn> katlogic: what's your beef with systemd? I've found it to work far better than any other init system I've ever used, and much more easily
* devyn reads boycottsystemd.org
<devyn> makes sense, I guess
<devyn> it is fairly monolithic
<devyn> but then the Linux kernel is also pretty monolithic (though it used to be even more so)
<devyn> non-Linux compatibility is also a fair point
<devyn> yeah, hmm, okay
<devyn> if I could just take the init part of systemd, I'd be happy, though
<devyn> SysV-style scripts are annoying
<devyn> and whatever the fuck Ubuntu is using now is dumb
<katlogic> devyn: Dunno, I'm mostly openrc user
<katlogic> from that perspective, systemd brings nothing good to the table
<katlogic> ("hurr durr paralallel startup. well, guess what? there are at least 5 sysv-init compatible systems doing that already :)
<devyn> yeah, hell, Arch had that *before* they switched to systemd
<devyn> it was kinda limited, and not automatic, but it was there
<devyn> you could mark daemons to start in the background with @
<devyn> and so you might have something like 'network @transmission' to start your BT client after the network's up, in the background
<devyn> but of course, not perfect because you're still waiting for your network to go up before other things start
<devyn> including, generally, your desktop, which would be on a higher runlevel
<katlogic> nah, i run everything in single level
<devyn> still don't like init scripts though
<devyn> if the boilerplate is insane enough that you need a template, it's no good
<katlogic> anyhow, its ~2 seconds here
<devyn> systemd does a good job of avoiding that in its .service files
<katlogic> systemd does this weird thing where everything launches and then sleeps before login prompt
<katlogic> never figured out why
<katlogic> i call it too big to debug
<katlogic> or not enough autism to bother
<devyn> probably too big to debug
<devyn> it really is huge, and it's only getting worse
<devyn> the only part I reeeally love about it is that it provides something much easier to work with than initscripts
<devyn> the rest I don't really care about that much
<devyn> since, for example, the nice tree layout that 'systemctl status' gives you could easily be created with a third party bash script
<devyn> don't need to integrate stuff like that in
<katlogic> wow, just typed systemctl status on my old arch desktop
<katlogic> disk still seeking
<katlogic> still seeking
<katlogic> still?
<katlogic> what the hell is it doing?
<devyn> lol I dunno, it always runs instantly for me
<purr> lol
<katlogic> devyn: http://pastie.org/9630425
<katlogic> well
<katlogic> dunno
<katlogic> i prefer the terse output of rc-status better :)
<katlogic> but to each their own
<devyn> katlogic: http://i5.minus.com/ih5ryroSSdBDE.png is what I get... are you running a super old version? o.o
<katlogic> dunno, fairly neglected arch
<devyn> yeah, I definitely wouldn't want that mountain of verbose shit lol
<purr> lol
<katlogic> to be fair, after the initial (caching?) it takes only 200ms
<katlogic> lemme drop disk caches
<devyn> seeking was probably due to loading all of the logs, since it seems to display those there
<katlogic> and again
<devyn> mine doesn't
<katlogic> "all the logs"
<katlogic> whats the problem
<katlogic> all it does is like tail -100
<katlogic> should certainly not load 2gbyte from disk
<katlogic> in random seeks, even
<katlogic> vmstat is hilarious
<katlogic> 5mbyte/s, 200iop/s
<devyn> well each service has its own log, so that explains the random seeks perhaps, and then they're stored in some kind of binary format and rotated and idfk
<katlogic> 400mbyte in 20k iops
<katlogic> gj systemctl
<devyn> that said, that is definitely a very old version, so I wouldn't judge what systemd is *now* based on that haha
<katlogic> devyn: to be fair this is like 10 years athlon used for irc
<devyn> that too
<devyn> not that that should matter
<katlogic> still imo hard excuse that they expect me to run i7 with 32gb ram and ssd
<katlogic> i mean now that windows is dead
<katlogic> the torch has been passed to systemd
<devyn> I can run systemd just fine on a Raspberry Pi, so I doubt that's really an issue
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<katlogic> ie to make trivial stuff have super heavy hardware hardware requirements
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<katlogic> so the moores law can march on
<devyn> what's that inverse to moore's law called
<devyn> I forget
<katlogic> devyn: how old is that arch install?
<katlogic> this one is like, 3 years old
<katlogic> past 2 or 3 ER rooms after screwing up update
<devyn> 3 years old is ancient in Arch terms; mine are all up to date as of a few days ago
<katlogic> nah, obviously it is updated
<katlogic> its just not reinstalled for that long, thats what i'm asking
<katlogic> apparently crud accumulates on arch just as windows xp
<devyn> oh, no, I've got a server with Arch that's been run through updates for about 3 years now, still going strong, no reinstalls needed
<devyn> and my desktop's been running for a year or so now too
<katlogic> server? ballsy.
<devyn> that used to be the case, but things have actually improved a lot since they cleaned shit up and went with systemd
<devyn> my server actually survived the systemd migration; it was installed with sysv
<devyn> ballsy? yeah, I guess, but it's just a home server. my production servers for important stuff all run Debian, haha
<devyn> debian + security patches + some random stuff from the 'unstable' repos
<devyn> but even there I miss systemd's .service files. systemd isn't KISS from an architecture standpoint, but from the end-user's point of view, it's pretty damn KISS
<katlogic> yes
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<audy> this ibm watson cloud thing is maddening
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