purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: you
<cuttle> devyn: not only is urbit is awful, its creator is a fucking idiot
<purr> ฿ ($US): 902.00 @ Bitstamp, 902.00 @ Coinbase
<purr> ฿ ($US): 890.66 @ Bitstamp, 890.66 @ Coinbase
<whitequark> cuttle: tl;dr
<whitequark> also now my brain hurts
<purr> ฿ ($US): 910.29 @ Bitstamp, 912.11 @ Coinbase
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<purr> ฿ ($US): 903.50 @ Bitstamp, 908.81 @ Coinbase
<purr> ฿ ($US): 883.01 @ Bitstamp, 894.79 @ Coinbase
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<purr> ฿ ($US): 888.00 @ Bitstamp, 889.78 @ Coinbase
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<alexgordon> oooo
<alexgordon> bargin
<purr> ฿ ($US): 891.99 @ Bitstamp, 893.77 @ Coinbase
<joelteon> i just missed my second psychiatrist appointment in a row
<joelteon> first time was because i broke my phone and it did not remind me to go
<joelteon> second one was because i set an alarm and then didn't have my phone
<purr> ฿ ($US): 890.66 @ Bitstamp, 892.44 @ Coinbase
<alexgordon> booo
<yorick> and EC was so happy selling at $250
* yorick was so happy selling at $250
<joelteon> hhha
<joelteon> i would buy, but it's not a good idea for me
<joelteon> i need to spare every cent
<whitequark> then don't
<joelteon> yeah not sure why i shared that fascinating story with you all
<purr> ฿ ($US): 882.00 @ Bitstamp, 883.76 @ Coinbase
<whitequark> these diagnostics are insane: https://travis-ci.org/o11c/spiral/jobs/14580409#L317
<alexgordon> whitequark: lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> ooh llvm 3.4 in less than 1 month
<alexgordon> so basically just... still C++98 :P
<alexgordon> do they mean 98? not even 03?!
<purr> ฿ ($US): 885.00 @ Bitstamp, 886.77 @ Coinbase
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<purr> ฿ ($US): 886.01 @ Bitstamp, 886.77 @ Coinbase
<purr> ฿ ($US): 893.59 @ Bitstamp, 895.38 @ Coinbase
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<purr> ฿ ($US): 896.50 @ Bitstamp, 898.29 @ Coinbase
<purr> ฿ ($US): 906.45 @ Bitstamp, 908.26 @ Coinbase
<alexgordon> \o/
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: (I'm getting bored. `-BTC watch` if you want me to continue.)
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: Okay, I'm done with that. <,<
<alexgordon> go to bed purr
<joelteon> yeah purr you BITCH
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<whitequark> attourney?!
<joelteon> can anyone here telnet to nrwhl.org port 25
<whitequark> no
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<joelteon> ok
<joelteon> i must be insane
<joelteon> i can telnet to localhost 25 FROM it
<joelteon> but i can't telnet to it from anywhere else
<whitequark> firewall
<whitequark> shitty isp
<whitequark> or uplink in general
<joelteon> well, I can't telnet to nrwhl.org 25 *from* nrwhl.org
<whitequark> netstat -ltpn
<whitequark> check the iface it's listening on
<whitequark> gotta be 0.0.0.0
<joelteon> yeah, i'm retarded
<joelteon> just had to set inet_addresses = all in main.cf
<joelteon> postfix is such a nightmare to configure
<whitequark> use sendmail
<joelteon> that's an idea
<joelteon> but first i should get my sendmail config backed up
<whitequark> that was sarcasm
<joelteon> meh, i'm at the point of using telnet instead of postfix
<joelteon> haven't had to touch it for awhile
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<whitequark> rust is a pain in the ass for generic code
<whitequark> you need to perform explicit copying like all the fucking time
<whitequark> or maybe I'm doing it wrong
<yorickpeterse> hit's just you, you just don't understand Rust :P
<yorickpeterse> * it's
<whitequark> yeah I am
<devyn> cuttle: holy shit, I refuse to believe that was all written by a person. at some point, it must be a markov chain
<devyn> that's one hell of a rant
<devyn> is that really the creator of urbit?
<devyn> (because it isn't hard to believe)
<whitequark> grrrrr, rust pisses me off
<whitequark> one particular corner case of it
<devyn> I had 20 LTC recently and then I sold it because I thought bitcoin would rise more
<devyn> now I have 5 LTC.
<devyn> :p
<whitequark> yeah
<devyn> I feel like this is just professional traders trying to get everyone completely confident that holding is the most profitable solution
<devyn> and then they're just going to come down on it hard suddenly
<devyn> but... it looks like they've tried that several times and it hasn't been successful
<devyn> because other people are like "ooh, it's low, better buy!"
<devyn> so essentially we're in a bubble that isn't breaking because people consider it too valuable to drop
<whitequark> then it's not a bubble?
<devyn> I guess
<devyn> this is crazy though, if not a bubble
<whitequark> it is
<devyn> but I'm also starting to believe that it's not entirely unexpected
<devyn> maybe it really is a consequence of bitcoin looking more viable
<devyn> to outsiders
<devyn> well
<devyn> not that I mean it that way
<devyn> just like
<devyn> people who just see it as a currency
<whitequark> http://bitcoincharts.com/ -> news
<whitequark> plus the giant chinese exchange
<devyn> well yeah, for a while it was trading WAY ahead of the other markets
<devyn> which was insane
<devyn> now it's about par
<devyn> but it got well over $1000, even $1100 IIRC (USD)
<whitequark> huh
<devyn> though I do feel like litecoin's inherent technological differences may make it more attractive eventually
<devyn> the memory-hardness of scrypt
<whitequark> I'm thinking that litecoin is going to be more attractive simply because it's an alternative
<whitequark> probably the only viable today
<devyn> not only that but it will have the side effect of putting more pressure on memory R&D
<devyn> if it gets bitcoin level big
<whitequark> I mean, there's some payment processors which actually accept ltc
<whitequark> which is not true for other altcoins
<devyn> right
<devyn> well there's bitcoin which is huge, and then litecoin is second
<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> (memory R&D) what?
<devyn> litecoin is trading > 0.02 BTC to the LTC now, which is significant
<devyn> memory research and development
<whitequark> yeah, wat?
<whitequark> you need about... 8k RAM per hardware scrypt core, iirc
<devyn> scrypt is memory-hard, and you've seen what bitcoin mining has done (i.e., creating ASICs that SHA really, really fast)
<whitequark> in fact I was going to make an fpgaminer out of an fpga I have, just for the sake of it
<whitequark> you say it like it's some outstanding achievement which is better for all humanity
<whitequark> in fact it's just bitcoin asics, not different at all from any other typical asic
<devyn> well the creation of ASICs that SHA really really fast isn't
<whitequark> you could have scrypt asics just as well
<whitequark> you don't need any particular breakthroughs in memory tech, and in fact you aren't going to stimulate it any more
<whitequark> for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that semiconductor r&d cycle is five years *at best*
<whitequark> and it's ten or more for any really new technology
<whitequark> even if someone in their right mind invests in that, by the end of it most profit will come from transaction fees anyway, as it was planned
<devyn> of course
<devyn> but transaction fees would eventually be a huge source of profit
<whitequark> yeah seen that
<devyn> a 7950 can get ~500 kH/s (I know, because I have one)
<devyn> you know, actually, the ratio estimated of kH/s/W_GPU to kH/s/W_ASIC here
<devyn> seems similar to initial bitcoin ASICs promises too
<devyn> one advantage to developing mining technology is if it's significantly ahead, you can premine a bit to recover some of the investment before selling it, I guess
<devyn> people were accusing BFL of doing this
<devyn> they probably were
<whitequark> in a gold rush, only those who make the tools win
<devyn> especially if you can make the tools on someone else's dime and profit off of them twice
<whitequark> hence I don't even look at mining equipment :3
<whitequark> yup
<whitequark> it's really an ingenious scheme
<devyn> hell, you just keep doing it until the network starts to catch up
<devyn> and *then* you ship
<devyn> and then the investment isn't so good
<devyn> :p
<devyn> or you ship a little bit to keep people happy
* whitequark pats devyn
<whitequark> you'd make a good (bad?) evil lord, I guess
<devyn> maybe that's my issue with capitalism... I think it's too easy for anyone with a bit of a brain and an understanding of how people work to exploit the masses
<devyn> not that other systems really solve that either
<whitequark> I think the most beautiful part is how economies of scale turn this scheme against miners either way
<whitequark> one, the more people get onto the asic train, the less each of them receives
<whitequark> two, the more asics they buy, the less those asics cost to the vendor
<devyn> and you get some really goddamn rich people buying them, which must feel good
<whitequark> since you're thinking as a goddamn rich person... idk
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<devyn> rich people love to crush other rich people
<whitequark> btc-e trollbox is hilarious
<whitequark> really, just read it for a few minutes
<devyn> rich people are rich because they're either really competitive, or they inherited it
<devyn> whitequark: I have. for hours on end.
<devyn> once in a while, they say the darndest things
<devyn> I was just chatting with a friend about it
<devyn> hold on
<whitequark> devyn: "steal it, marry it or inherit it"
<devyn> haha this one
<devyn> JamesR: Namecoin can free entire countries from the hand of dictators and their followers if the people of that country have only a little access to internet. Namecoin boycotts censorship so people can unite and mobilise to free their countries and install democracies Buy Namecoin for a freeer world
<devyn> TrevorNIan: how can that ltc wall be real when ltc is not real
<devyn> HermanForever: Iran now selling oil in BTC
<devyn> Sheik Slarshmaha abdul abubuubu bout to buy BTC worth over 9000! 4 realz
<devyn> buminatrain: I had orange chicken for lunch, and my gut is saying hold!
<devyn> ↑ that was when China was controlling the market and everyone was like "I know a Chinese person, they said hold!"
<devyn> and it just got more ridiculous
<devyn> and of course, contradicting it, Catanonia: been told by chinese friends, will drop to sub 150
<devyn> WayneNolting: disable trollbox => ALT-F4
<devyn> JacobRiggs: LTC FACTORY JUST CAUGHT FIRE
<devyn> tokyoghetto: UN has BANNED BTC,,,everyone panic dump
<whitequark> LOL
<purr> LOL
<devyn> UN HAS BANNED BTC whitequark
<whitequark> (caught fire)
<devyn> haha
<whitequark> like I'm literally LOL now
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> that's pretty obtuse, there's more to it
<whitequark> for example people saying btc/ltc will drop before black friday, at 23-25th
<whitequark> have these fuckers ever tried to actually withdraw money from there?
<whitequark> it takes more than three days
<whitequark> (drop because everyone's cashing out... which is also, well, hardly believable)
<whitequark> (but still)
<devyn> that and BTC-e's reserves are low... I don't know what they end up doing, surely they must trade bitcoins and fiat with other exchanges?
<whitequark> (they) who?
<devyn> whoever runs the reserves
<whitequark> ah
<whitequark> no clue I would guess they cash out whatever incoming transactions they got
<whitequark> from a thousand little shitty processors
<whitequark> since money flows *in* bitcoin they should have plenty of it for reserves
<devyn> yes, they have plenty of bitcoin I'm sure
<whitequark> no, they have plenty of cash with which people buy bitcoin like crazy lately
<devyn> honestly if I do cash out, it's not going to be to fiat. and I never really bought in in the first place; I mined with my GPU in April
<whitequark> LTC?
<devyn> no, I was mining BTC back then. really should have mined LTC lol
<purr> lol
<whitequark> in last April?
<devyn> LTC was even easier to mine
<devyn> no this April
<whitequark> wow
<devyn> difficulty has gone up A LOT
<whitequark> how did you get anything that way really?
<devyn> it was only 6-7 million or billion back then
<devyn> can't remember which
<devyn> I managed to mine 1 BTC
<whitequark> does it even cover your electricity cost?
<whitequark> oh
<devyn> this was before ASICs were really much of a thing
<whitequark> I see
<devyn> and my electricity cost is pretty low
<devyn> hydro
<devyn> I didn't end up keeping that 1 BTC though. spent it on stupid shit like humble bundle
<devyn> and was left with about 0.2 BTC
<devyn> aaand I lost a lot of that to trading
<devyn> so
<devyn> I think I'm just going to hold and see what happens now
<devyn> lol
<whitequark> I wonder what happens when btc hits $1k
<whitequark> for real this time
<whitequark> it's probably going to end up all over the news, so the price'll get even higher
<whitequark> maybe a mini-bubble?
<devyn> I wouldn't be surprised
<devyn> but you know
<devyn> how things are going lately
<whitequark> even if it happens, it's probbly would be next to impossible to time
<whitequark> anyway
<devyn> I feel like people would immediately see it as the time to buy
<devyn> especially bots
<devyn> would be all over that shit
<whitequark> depends on how high it gets
<whitequark> I mean, yeah, but think of this
<devyn> so it would probably be turbulent for a while and if you're lucky you could anticipate it
<whitequark> bitcoin gets inflated to $7k very quickly
<whitequark> then sharply drops
<devyn> people would buy, man. maybe not the noobs, but I've seen how quickly people are getting used to new norms
<devyn> even within a single day
<whitequark> well, that's why I said mini-
<devyn> people are like "gasp, it's below $800, buy buy!" when it was at $700 at the beginning of the day
<whitequark> it's not really a catastrophe, just a lost opportunity
<devyn> you're almost guaranteed to lose unless you have a bot that absolutely slaughters the API
<devyn> I'm not really sure how bitcoinwisdom gets such up-to-date information; they don't seem to be polling
<devyn> they probably have a direct agreement
<devyn> but that would be damn useful for a bot
<devyn> so if someone with a bot could make a contract with BTC-e
<devyn> well
<devyn> that would be quite the advantage
<whitequark> ask them if they provide a push-style api
<devyn> well I feel like they must be, to bitcoinwisdom, yeah
<devyn> unless bitcoinwisdom polls like every second
<devyn> but I don't even think the API results are that fast
<devyn> I think they're cached
<devyn> for a little while
<whitequark> doesn't seem so
<devyn> no?
<devyn> I can't even access btc-e
<devyn> oh there we go
<devyn> whitequark: yeah, you're right, https://btc-e.com/api/2/btc_usd/trades is up to date
<whitequark> ticker however is not
<devyn> maybe BTC-e should look into just providing a push-style API
<devyn> no I know
<devyn> but that's because it's useless; you can get all that information from the trades. it's just telling you what's displayed on the site, which *is* delayed
<devyn> and knowing that could be useful
<devyn> lots of dumb people just go by that ticker
<whitequark> business idea: write an external service that provides push-style access to btc-e
<whitequark> maybe just all exchanges
<whitequark> charge for access to it
<devyn> I feel like exchanges would then ask for money... and then implement push themselves and undercut you
<devyn> but it might be good temporarily
<whitequark> assuming exchanges even want to bother
<devyn> not only that, but how do you get it to the point that it's even an advantage
<whitequark> hm?
<devyn> like, you'd still be polling
<whitequark> well
<devyn> so what makes you faster than *bot which polls too
<whitequark> 1-second ratelimit?
<whitequark> which I can, as a single entity, agree to lift
<whitequark> but not all the random bots
<devyn> doesn't seem like there's even a ratelimit
<whitequark> hit it with ab and it'll cut you off at firewall/nginx
<whitequark> pretty sure.
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> cloudflare
<devyn> ah, well yeah, then you get DDoS mitigation strategies
<devyn> coming into effect
<devyn> even with cloudflare BTC-e still gets DDoS'd successfully sometimes
<whitequark> no, I just mean cloudflare enfores that limit
<whitequark> and they use a sliding window
<devyn> upliftmaker: FTC is my new car :)
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<devyn> feathercoin
<devyn> pff
<whitequark> yeah doesn't seem to be any ratelimit
<whitequark> Requests per second: 4900.06 [#/sec] (mean)
<devyn> did you manage to read all of those, or is it just a quick open-request-wait-close?
<whitequark> read all of those
<devyn> because if you can read 4900/sec, that's fantastic, and makes me want to get on developing a bot
<devyn> wow
<whitequark> linode has a nice fat pipe
<whitequark> well on a bigger n=10000 it seems more like
<whitequark> Requests per second: 3587.86 [#/sec] (mean)
<whitequark> with concurrency=1000
<whitequark> assuming cloudflare doesn't specialcase apachebench but I guess they won't
<whitequark> devyn: I'm interested in your bot :p
<devyn> whitequark: yeah. I actually started on it a bit already, after being fed up with a shitty python bot that didn't even really work
<whitequark> devyn: wanna work together on it?
<devyn> literally, in the config file
<devyn> ## Not yet used
<devyn> fee = 0.2
<devyn> like
<devyn> how the hell can you do things properly if you don't even take fees into account
<whitequark> I was going to write something in ocaml
<devyn> and it was a mess, anyway
<whitequark> it has really sweet typesafe interfaces for RPCs and such, turns out
<devyn> took a bizarrely long time to calculate stuff
<devyn> novice programmer, definitely
<devyn> OCaml does?
<whitequark> totally
<whitequark> look at janestreet's core library
<devyn> I was originally going to do it in split Haskell/C (C for IO shit because I hate everything to do with Haskell and IO, and it doesn't matter how many layers of abstraction you put on it)
<whitequark> wanna make a try with ocaml?
<whitequark> I'd be willing to collaborate, like, right now
<devyn> I would but I should really sleep
<devyn> but
<devyn> sure, I might as well learn OCaml
<devyn> won't be that hard since I know Haskell really well
<devyn> what's up with the double semicolon?
<devyn> that's funky
<whitequark> dumb lexer
<whitequark> also, go $ opam install utop core
<whitequark> do you use sublime
<whitequark> ?
<devyn> no, vim
<whitequark> pity
<whitequark> try merlin, it's a nice ocaml mode
<devyn> alright installing opam
<whitequark> 4.01 is fine
<devyn> or aura -A opam :)
<whitequark> ah
<devyn> you wrote a compiler in OCaml... so, I suppose you've become quite comfortable with it
<whitequark> yep
<whitequark> ask me anything
<devyn> well so far this seems a lot more UNIXy, what with the use of makefiles and autoconf for packages
<devyn> than Haskell
<whitequark> it has a very similar compilation pipeline to C
<whitequark> except the 99%-of-time case is completely covered by ocamlbuild
<whitequark> more than that actually, because it's extensible
<devyn> well I suppose you could emulate C-style compilation with GHC
<whitequark> cat 'print_endline "hello world"' >foo.ml && ocamlbuild foo.native
<devyn> but everyone uses ghc --make, really
<whitequark> ./foo.native
<devyn> echo 'main = putStrLn "hello world"' > foo.hs && ghc --make foo && ./foo
<devyn> with GHC
<devyn> ah shit
<devyn> should sleep
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<whitequark> mkay
<whitequark> which timezone are you in?
<whitequark> oh, usa
<whitequark> god bless ctcp time
<devyn> whitequark: I live in Vancouver, Canada; we range from -0700 to -0800
<devyn> going to sleep now. good night
<devyn> huh my space bar is squeaky
* devyn sleeps
<whitequark> night
<devyn> whitequark: okay, couldn't help myself but read on about OCaml. looks good. definitely interested. talk later.
<whitequark> hah, I know how that feels :p
<devyn> :p
<purr> lol
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<alextgordon> language design idea: file scoped literal types
<alextgordon> say you're writing a game, you probably want to use single precision floats
<alextgordon> to save on space
<alextgordon> so you could declare at the top of your file
<alextgordon> (not sure what a good syntax is for this)
<alextgordon> type Literal(Floating) = Float32;
<alextgordon> then any `3.14` will be of type Float32
<alextgordon> but! say you're writing software for a bank
<alextgordon> then you probably don't want to use floats, you want decimals
<alextgordon> sooo
<alextgordon> type Literal(Floating) = Decimal;
<alextgordon> and 3.14 will be a Decimal
<alextgordon> if this is combined with a strict static type system and parametric types, it should work pretty well
<alextgordon> same for ints. 42 could be an Int32, an Int64, or a BigInt depending on what you're writing
<alextgordon> and strings! "Hello World" could be a ByteString or a Data.Text
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<joelteon> so like overloadedstrings and rebindablesyntax?
<whitequark> alextgordon: I think you can pretty much do that with a single arbitrary-precision literal type and typeclasses
<whitequark> like haskell
<whitequark> heyyyy devyn wake up already
<alextgordon> whitequark: but isn't that ineffficient?
<whitequark> alextgordon: why?
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<yorickpeterse> ugh, D stack traces are the worst
<yorickpeterse> even Java stack traces are more useful that this fucking mess
<yorick> yall irccloudpeople, do you use it for the webinterface or for the being online all the time
<yorickpeterse> I'm old school, I just use Weechat via SSH
<yorickpeterse> I'll have none of that cloud bullshit
<devyn> hi whitequark