<whitequark>
I was most surprised by how little they did to disguise themselves. they plain out state all the details on the website
<whitequark>
the contract is 3 pages of plain 12pt russian
<alextgordon>
sounds like wonga. "Welby said he was throwing the weight of the Church behind credit unions to offer an alternative to Wonga, which charges an annual interest rate of 5,853%"
<whitequark>
45%mo translates to 8638% annually
<whitequark>
yeah
<alextgordon>
I guess our MPs must be pretty corrupt too
<whitequark>
ooooh
<whitequark>
0.5% was for the transaction processor. btc-e takes another 5%
* whitequark
sighs
<alextgordon>
I guess no SEPA in russia
<whitequark>
if I did a bank transfer it would be 1%, except that minimal amount is 10000 RUB and minimal fee is 500 RUB so it's 5% of minimal amount
<whitequark>
to actually get the 1% fee I'd need to transfer upwards of 50000 RUB, that's almost 2k$
<whitequark>
plus it's 3-7 days (I guess "5 workdays")
<whitequark>
which is wtf which century is this
<whitequark>
this is one area where bitcoin is How It Should Always Have Worked
<alextgordon>
what about localbitcoins?
<whitequark>
what about them?
<alextgordon>
fast maybe?
<alextgordon>
*faster
<whitequark>
well, for starters, it doesn't work if your goal is to get RUB to some exchange
<whitequark>
which may or may not be what you need
<alextgordon>
well it does in a way because if you have bitcoins you can transfer that to an exchange and get RUB! ;)
<whitequark>
well not if I want to have a way to quickly buy them when it crashes again.
<whitequark>
also the rates it shows for RU are ridiculous
<whitequark>
like 30% higher than btc-e rate
<whitequark>
the best is 25k versus 23k on btc-e. all the others are 31k upwards
<devyn>
wow I like how they formatted the Emacs modeline
<devyn>
clever
<alextgordon>
devyn: header guards are stupid and dangerous
<alextgordon>
use #pragma once
<alextgordon>
or #import
<whitequark>
alextgordon: nonportable
<alextgordon>
#pragma once is implemented everywhere
<devyn>
it's not standard though
<alextgordon>
probably more portable than C++ itself
<joelteon>
but it's implemented everywhere
<alextgordon>
definitely more portable than C11
<alextgordon>
or even C99!
<devyn>
heh
<alextgordon>
devyn: problem with header guards is that files in different directories will be guarded
<alextgordon>
so like if you have foo/bar.c
<alextgordon>
and baz/bar.c
<alextgordon>
erm .h
<alextgordon>
both will have BAR_H as the header guard, causing mayhem
<whitequark>
#ifdef FOO_BAR_H
<whitequark>
obviously
<alextgordon>
right but that doesn't work if you cp the file from another project
<alextgordon>
what are you going to do, change all the guards when you move a file?
<whitequark>
1) why the fuck do you do that, 2) why the fuck aren't your headers scoped by the project name
<alextgordon>
3) not all code is written by me, 4) #pragma once Just Works™
<alextgordon>
header guards are a hack... no other languages use them. The compilers have given us a nice feature so that we don't have to use them. We should be grateful!
<whitequark>
headers themselves are a hack, no other language spends 80% of time reparsing the same fucking files
<alextgordon>
yeah but there's no replacement (yet) for headers
<whitequark>
it's about
<whitequark>
replacement for Cxx
<alextgordon>
personally I only use clang and (sometimes) gcc, and both of those implement #import. but if I cared about other compilers, I'd use #pragma once ;)
<whitequark>
it's also fun in a multitude of other ways
<whitequark>
say at each invocation it phones home to check the license, that takes ~10 seconds
<alextgordon>
also #pragma once IS standard, in that the standard says it's implementation defined, and any sane implementation should issue a warning if it doesn't understand the pragma -- notifying you to install a better fucking compiler
<whitequark>
or the code it generates isn't really structured in subroutines
<whitequark>
it's a sea of labels, jumps, calls and rets, which are arranged in the most efficient way
<alextgordon>
which begs the question -- why not use llvm!
<joelteon>
it raises the question
<alextgordon>
joelteon: nope, begs
<joelteon>
ok fag
<whitequark>
with zero regards whatsoever to the ability of you, puny human, understand it
<whitequark>
and I think gdb chokes too
<alextgordon>
questions are begged, points are raised
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
it generates incredibly good code
<whitequark>
improvement of 30% in size/speed over gcc/llvm is not unheard of
<alextgordon>
ah so basically it's the msvc++ of less endowed devices
<whitequark>
mm no
<whitequark>
msvc disregards the standard and just does whatever microsoft deems convenient
<whitequark>
armcc adheres to the standard in the strictest possible way
<alextgordon>
yeah but iirc mozilla said they use it because it generates faster code for windows
<whitequark>
and it punishes you if you don't
<alextgordon>
xD
<devyn>
Windows is fucked
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<whitequark>
after you write code for armcc for a while, you stop making errors or deviating from the standard
<whitequark>
without any help from the compiler
<whitequark>
because armcc doesn't help you, it beats you into submission
<whitequark>
I should write a BDSM novel about compilers
<alextgordon>
50 shades of undefined
<whitequark>
oh yes
<joelteon>
so like
<joelteon>
!!!
* purr
scolds joelteon and puts them in a time out.
<joelteon>
i should probably set up my own database server
<alextgordon>
thankfully I have never read 50 shades of grey to try to joke about it
<joelteon>
i read a review of it
<alextgordon>
did the reviewer end it in a pool of her own fluids?
<joelteon>
yea
<whitequark>
50 sheds of grey
<joelteon>
basically
<whitequark>
it's a thing
<alextgordon>
oh god I have to read this book
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<joelteon>
ok
<joelteon>
i finally have my very own
<joelteon>
database server
<joelteon>
deploys are gonna be a LOT less painful now
<devyn>
joelteon: what was up with all of the join/quit shit?
<jvulc>
Friggin' NETSPLIT.
<jvulc>
I think ... not sure or shitty internet.
<devyn>
but it was just him
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
usually irssi detects netsplits anyway
<devyn>
well... I mean, it's reported in the IRC protocol
<joelteon>
yeah, my mistake
<joelteon>
i had two droplets both running the same ZNC instance
<joelteon>
old one should be gone forever
<devyn>
heh
<devyn>
-topic you
<purr>
devyn: SyntaxError: Syntax is `s/expression/replacetext/gi`.
<devyn>
-topic s/.*/you
<purr>
devyn: SyntaxError: Syntax is `s/expression/replacetext/gi`.
<joelteon>
would be nice if you could make a distributed bouncer
<devyn>
-topic s/.*/you/
purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: you
<devyn>
fuck you purre
<devyn>
fuck you purr
<devyn>
I'm a little drunk :p
<joelteon>
>purr
<devyn>
purr: fuck you
<devyn>
>_<
<devyn>
I swore
<devyn>
it said something
<devyn>
when you do that
<joelteon>
how daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare you
<devyn>
purr: I hate you
<devyn>
purr: I love you
<purr>
devyn: thank you! ^_^
<devyn>
haha
<devyn>
=purr
<devyn>
-purr
* purr
<joelteon>
where has digitalocean been all my life
<devyn>
-factoid purr
<purr>
devyn: Popularity: 7, last changed by: ELLIOTTCABLE, 176ſ 926mſ ago
<devyn>
crap how do you read a factoid overriden by a command
<devyn>
uhhh
<devyn>
-find purr
<purr>
devyn: he purrs. he's a purr. that's what he does.
<devyn>
there we go
<devyn>
-factoid purr
<purr>
devyn: Popularity: 8, last changed by: ELLIOTTCABLE, 176ſ 927mſ ago
<devyn>
there we go
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<joelteon>
SEC
<joelteon>
i'm gonna try to set up ZNC on my new machine
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<whitequark>
you know what I'd do? completely selfish and outlandish? I'd just crash the world's economy. infinite supply of money ain't shit if it's not worth the paper it's printed on
<whitequark>
hell, not worth the bits it's stored on! (homework: calculate how much inflation exactly do you need for that)
<whitequark>
I'm surprised no one there thought of it.
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<joelteon>
man
<joelteon>
ZNC is the hardest thing to test
<devyn>
GCC doesn't like my inline asm :(
<joelteon>
so i just found out you can build a cross compiling GHC
<joelteon>
this might be
<joelteon>
the best thing ever
<devyn>
a) of course you can, and
<devyn>
b) why?
<joelteon>
because i dev on osx and deploy to centos
<devyn>
ah
<devyn>
it's hell to set up though joelteon
<devyn>
you have to get all of the headers from your centos installation
<devyn>
and use them
<joelteon>
what
<joelteon>
really
<devyn>
yeah otherwise even though it's the right binary format it's still not configured for centos
<joelteon>
alright
<joelteon>
well
<joelteon>
i expected to spend all of tomorrow on this
<joelteon>
might be monday too
<devyn>
lol good luck
<purr>
lol
<devyn>
you probably need all of /usr/lib too, since GHC likes to static link
<devyn>
or at least all of /usr/lib that you're using
<cuttle>
i wanted to discuss a hypothetical idea i had
<cuttle>
so the em field travels at a constant speed because it's massless, i.e. doesn't couple with the higgs field
<cuttle>
whereas the fields that couple with the higgs field, e.g. the electron field, travel at different speeds depending on their energy
<whitequark>
whew whew
<whitequark>
fields don't travel
<cuttle>
ok
<cuttle>
excitations *in* the field
<cuttle>
travel
<whitequark>
hm
<cuttle>
so i was thinking, sound waves travel at a constant speed, assuming constant temperature and pressure and stuff. so could there be some mechanism analogous to the higgs field whereby the sound field is given mass?
<cuttle>
i mean, there are huge differences, since it's not quantum
<whitequark>
wat
<cuttle>
not given actual mass
<cuttle>
but the analogous thing
<joelteon>
watching microsoft commercials is like watching the special olympics
<joelteon>
commercials in general are awful
<joelteon>
devyn:
<joelteon>
you are a prophet
<devyn>
joelteon: lol how so
<purr>
lol
<joelteon>
gave up
<devyn>
gave up cross-compiling for centos?
<joelteon>
yea
<devyn>
lol
<devyn>
joelteon: if you really have to, it would be easier to just set up a virtual machine mostly identical to whatever your target is
<devyn>
and compile there
<devyn>
I assume the problem is that you can't compile GHC on your target?
<joelteon>
i already have a vm
<joelteon>
i thought it would be faster than booting it, compiling, and suspending it
<devyn>
if you want to make things really easy, you could set everything up with VBoxManage and a network daemon on the guest so that your build script automatically starts the VM, tells it to build, and sends the result back to you (or to your server)