indirect changed the topic of #bundler to: Docs! http://bundler.io | Problems? http://bit.ly/bundler-issues | How to help: http://bit.ly/bundler-development | API Dashboard http://cl.ly/SBoH | #bundler logs: http://bit.ly/bundler-logs | Questions will be answered eventually, so hang out for a while
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<werdnativ> I can't find where paths are configured, how does bundler find its .bundle directory?
<werdnativ> bundle env doesn't show configured paths.
<werdnativ> The problem is I'm using chef to bundle install as the "deploy" user, but it's trying to access /home/vagrant/.bundle
<werdnativ> even though whoami = deploy and pwd has a .bundle directory
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<robertodecurnex> May I ask a silly, probably over discussed Q?
<robertodecurnex> Why is "bundler gem X" still using `git ls-files`?
<robertodecurnex> It's hurting the gems archive.
<robertodecurnex> Thousand people is gettgin hundrer of gems installed on their machines with a useless gemspecs.
<robertodecurnex> *of
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<pipework> robertodecurnex: I don't see the problem with it.
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<robertodecurnex> git ls-files makes sence only on the developer context
<robertodecurnex> working directly over the local repo
<robertodecurnex> once the gem has been packeged and uploaded it turns useless
<robertodecurnex> pipework just try to pack the gem, decompress it elsewhere and pack it again
<robertodecurnex> "blablabla is not a git repository"
<pipework> robertodecurnex: I rarely do that. Is that something you do often?
<robertodecurnex> Git + github is the current fashion
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<robertodecurnex> I love that too
<robertodecurnex> but you can not predict the future
<robertodecurnex> and gems will live there forever
<robertodecurnex> pipework think about rubyforge SVN repos
<pipework> robertodecurnex: I don't want to. Sounds annoying.
<robertodecurnex> ok, git and github will be annoying too
<robertodecurnex> the GEM is supposed to live forever
<robertodecurnex> the repo it's not
<robertodecurnex> pipework it is sooooooo wrong! and everyone seems to be OK with it.
<robertodecurnex> the problem is that most of the people do not even open the gempec
<robertodecurnex> and if they do they learn from it
<robertodecurnex> people is taking as a good practice this git ls-files just because it just works and they dont have to write a single line
<pipework> robertodecurnex: I don't know, man. commits are forever.
<robertodecurnex> it's ok, I'm figting windmills, nobody cares
<robertodecurnex> no theya re not
<pipework> They definitely are.
<robertodecurnex> you are free to delete your repos,
<pipework> You're free to clone it.
<pipework> You're free to back it up. I can't delete your repo clone or fork.
<pipework> You can delete a gem too.
<robertodecurnex> i cna not clone everyone repos just in case!
<robertodecurnex> no you cant!
<robertodecurnex> you can junk them
<robertodecurnex> not sure if even Nick cares about it, or even majestic ...
<pipework> robertodecurnex: Anyone can run a gem server.
<pipework> They do allow people to take over some names, but they don't make it a common practice.
<robertodecurnex> Yes, I have a couple of them
<robertodecurnex> And that's why I also hate this approach
<pipework> The repo is just as forever as a gem.
<robertodecurnex> I see it on first hand
<pipework> A lot of us use git. We also link to our repo in the gemspec.
<pipework> I can see how it can be better though, I agree on that.
<robertodecurnex> The gemspec gets useless after "gem build"
<pipework> Some people use things like hoe to actually list files.
<pipework> robertodecurnex: It isn't.
<robertodecurnex> ...
<pipework> You just clone the repo and build there, or you git init . and work from there.
<pipework> It's not 'useless' it's just got an extra hoop.
<robertodecurnex> You can install Windows 8 and install a virtaul box, and install git, and clone files........... and bulid
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<slash_nick> i'm trying to understand the complaint... is it just that "not everyone uses git"?
<robertodecurnex> and we probably wont in the furute
<robertodecurnex> again, SVN was a good practice 5 years ago, even 2 for a lot of people
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: what's stopping you from listing files in some other way?
<robertodecurnex> it's not me
<slash_nick> What do you mean?
<robertodecurnex> it's every gem bulid with bundler
<robertodecurnex> + every developer that learns how tio create a gemspec based on that
<pipework> robertodecurnex: lol windows and virtual box.
<slash_nick> Right, you run `bundle gem hot-new-gem`... it creates a lot of files. The gemspec has a line that calls `git ls ...`
<robertodecurnex> haha, yea, lol
<slash_nick> It's entirely possible to change that line.
<pipework> robertodecurnex: When you're already changing the gem, why don't you just change the line?
<robertodecurnex> yes it is
<robertodecurnex> are you really asking that?
<slash_nick> A developer should read it and say "hey, that lists files, but I don't have git. better change it"
<pipework> I'd just `git init . && git add -N . && git add -p && git commit`
<robertodecurnex> you dont need EVERY file of the repo to be included on the gem
<pipework> robertodecurnex: Why not?
<robertodecurnex> that's another ugly practice
<pipework> Typically, I do want everything. What should I not want?
<pipework> Even tests.
<slash_nick> pipework: I dunno, readme, examples
<robertodecurnex> ty!
<pipework> slash_nick: You wouldn't want to include documentation?
<slash_nick> not in the .gem that's built by running "gem build blah"
<slash_nick> not necessarily
<robertodecurnex> there area A LOT of repos holding even binaries, useless for the final user
<pipework> Why not? When you generate rdocs from it, it might beneft from it.
<pipework> robertodecurnex: Which are using precompiled binaries that aren't meant for the end user?
<robertodecurnex> RDOC MUST be generated locally
<pipework> So?
<robertodecurnex> user has the freedom of install docs or not, and define the format
<pipework> You need the documentation source to generate it.
<robertodecurnex> the DOC is part of teh code
<slash_nick> pipework: I'm thinking of a mygem/samples/ directory with a ton of images
<pipework> If I write a readme and examples, I want the source of the documentation shipped.
<robertodecurnex> let's see....
<pipework> slash_nick: I could see it as an opportunity to include it in the doc source, but arguably that they might not want the gem to ship it too.
<pipework> robertodecurnex: You're welcome to generate with whatever you want, or to not. But I will write my documentation strings how I want and it's up to you to deal with whatever they output when you run it through your documentation generator.
<robertodecurnex> sure it is
<robertodecurnex> you can include whatever you want
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: it's not a big deal. if a dev is big-boy enough to write a gem, he's also capable of specifying which files will be used in building the gem
<robertodecurnex> but right now everyone is including everything
<robertodecurnex> slash_nick: lot of them are not
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: post issues
<pipework> robertodecurnex: I'd think that if there's things I don't want in the gem, I'd either whitelist or blacklist them, but most always I want everything in my gems.
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<pipework> I don't want to get into the practice of #{gem}, #{gem}-docs, #{gem}-examples, #{gem}-tests
<robertodecurnex> Anyway, there are two problems here.
<robertodecurnex> 1st everythign is included, I can live with it (maybe :p)
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<robertodecurnex> 2nd now building a gem requires git and the repo
<robertodecurnex> that's way too mcuh
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: in no way does building a gem require git
<robertodecurnex> yes it is, have you ever shipped productive code via GEMS ?
<robertodecurnex> to a VPS, not heroku
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: not sure what you're asking
<pipework> robertodecurnex: Well, only if you want to modify the gem but really don't want to modify the gemspec.
<slash_nick> notice `git ls-files` is in backticks... you could just as easily `ls` the files
<robertodecurnex> ls is much better, but it will add the git meta files
<robertodecurnex> and its OS dependent
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: okay so `ls something | grep -v "exclude_this_string"`
<robertodecurnex> using RUBY would be the safer path
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: so use that, what's the problem?
<robertodecurnex> I not even use "bundler gem"
<robertodecurnex> but every gem I install is corrupted by the git ls-files
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: so make issues on those gems github repos
<robertodecurnex> and most of the developer on my company are used to that
<robertodecurnex> ... it's budler, it's supposed to be an example of how things should be done
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<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: i agree the template produced should be a good example.
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: don't you think the ruby code to list those files while excluding those items you'd like excluded would be a little... messy?
<slash_nick> git-ls-files takes into account the .gitignore
<robertodecurnex> Yes, and the .git directories
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<robertodecurnex> That's the adventage of git ls-files, and the reason why it's probably still thre
<slash_nick> Right, those too... it's clean, it's OS agnostic, you can include/exclude whichever files you want
<robertodecurnex> but the cost seems to be too much, at least for me
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: you're not locked into it... you can, for your own projects, list the files however you want. for the gems you're installing, you can create issues and pull requests to improve your situation
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<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: the pull requests might just change the .gitignore
<robertodecurnex> I'm living with it. It's just that newcomers (and even you) use it without thinking about the cost of having GIT as a dependency.
<robertodecurnex> It's actually not a bundler thing but a ruby thing
<robertodecurnex> Most of you are used to use SO files here and thre
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: again, git is in no way a dependency
<slash_nick> SO?
<robertodecurnex> .SO files, system libraries
<slash_nick> And that hurts you because windows?
<robertodecurnex> no, because you need to install lot of packages on your servers/workers
<robertodecurnex> (even in your machine, but that's not really the problem)
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: i'm not sure we're the right audience for this
<robertodecurnex> you are bundler -> bundler introduces the git ls-files approach to devs -> you are the audience
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: I'll back out of this conversation now...
<robertodecurnex> Yea, I was just looking for quick feedback
<robertodecurnex> There are better places to discuss this with details
<robertodecurnex> Just checking if there was a strong argument to do it in that way.
<robertodecurnex> slash_nick: I appreciate your thougths. Sorry if I got aggressive on my nerd-rage :P
<slash_nick> robertodecurnex: there is, we went over the reasoning together.
<robertodecurnex> pipework: same 4 u
<pipework> robertodecurnex: Passionate people are the ones I prefer to talk with.
<pipework> I'll have to catch up in a bit.
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