#bitcoin-wizards on 2018-06-05 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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00:05 <bsm117532> "trust" is a shitty mapping from 32 bits of data that a piece can remember to 256 bits of entropy in a key.

00:05 <bsm117532> *piece of meat

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00:06 <bsm117532> BlueMatt: no, I think we can create payment channels with a single output in a coinbase, and all of the other share-chain payouts absorbed on the share-chain.

00:06 <bsm117532> Why?

00:06 <BlueMatt> bsm117532: see above mislink, lol

00:06 <BlueMatt> new mining protocl-based question

00:07 <BlueMatt> ie should I support "pool server" providing more than 256 outputs

00:07 <BlueMatt> please do read through that protocol and make sure the fields the pool is allowed to fill in are sufficient for your use-case

00:07 <bsm117532> I see no reason to do that if Lightning exists.

00:07 <bsm117532> This? https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/master/bip-XXXX.mediawiki

00:07 <BlueMatt> yes

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00:09 <bsm117532> As long as the share-chain commits to the payments over Lightning (meaning, if that coinbase ever matures, miners already posses the payout transaction) then the main-chain coinbase doesn't need to be any larger than a Lightning channel opening.

00:11 <bsm117532> This requires (probably) a separate Lightning network of "unmatured" channels, because we have to have a different logic WRT a channel is "open".

00:12 <bsm117532> But anyway, this removes the giant coinbases of p2pool

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02:04 <a87ry5_> In the event dandelion is deployed, its rate of adoption would follow historical upgrade patterns (i.e. would not happen overnight). Might an attacker be able to sybil attack the network with dandelion-incapable nodes to limit the possible number of routes available to dandelion-capable nodes? And then from there have greater ability to construct a transaction's source?

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03:25 <kanzure> you would want dandelion-style deployment of dandelion itself

03:48 <gmaxwell> a87ry5_: the recent paper linked to today complained about that, but I'm doubtful that its that interesting.

03:49 <gmaxwell> a87ry5_: we'd deploy code capable of relaying in stem mode a version or two ahead of code that actually uses it.

03:52 <gmaxwell> (e.g. an 'usestems' option which defaults to off, and later gets turned on)

03:57 <kanzure> defaults to on but not doing anything until turn-on date

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03:57 <kanzure> (turn-on blockheight)

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10:54 <mikez> Is raw Multisig quantum-vulnerable just as P2KH is? Isn't this a bit of a problem?

10:54 <mikez> *P2PK

10:55 <mikez> (Assuming P2PK being quantum-vulnerable is a problem)

10:56 <aj> mikez: it's better to do multisig via p2sh or p2wsh though, which makes it about as safe as p2pkh

10:56 <mikez> Yeah, I know... thing is, p2pk is non-standard because of quantum-vulnerability, while Multisig is still standard

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10:56 <mikez> Which made me wonder why the discrepancy

10:57 <erltho_> I though that if the hashing algorithm is based on a problem unefficient for the quantum computer to solve, by hashing the key, Bitcoin will not be affected?

10:57 <mikez> erltho_: thing is - in raw Multisig the key is not hashed

10:57 <erltho_> In LN, I think p2wsh is standard

10:58 <erltho_> I see, then that will be a problem indeed, if using raw multisig

11:01 <aj> mikez: err, i thought p2pk was still standard? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script/standard.cpp#L26

11:02 <mikez> Oh, it is indeed... I read some documentation that stated that it is not, oh well :)

11:02 <mikez> thanks for the answer

11:03 <aj> mikez: thanks for the question :)

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11:36 <fluffypony> bsm117532: I agree - I was joking about PoWoT; still, I think that a WoT might be useful for many of the human-to-human interactions we do

11:36 <fluffypony> eg. going into business with someone

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11:41 <bsm117532> I find your meat mapping algorithm to be lacking.

11:46 <bsm117532> Web of Trust is a meat-mapping algorithm. As such, it is NOT self-sovereign. People will make as many identities as they need and dump those that are not useful.

11:46 <bsm117532> Meat-mapping is inherently coercive, and should be done by governments where appropriate for debt collection and law enforcement.

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15:16 <nsh> (O/T: Java 9 has a parser/lexer/compiler bug that results in a regression of basic expression expansion, found by code golfers - imperative code gets double-executed for += exps: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50683786/why-does-arrayin-i-give-different-results-in-java-8-and-java-10 )

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