sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<PottyLarry> I seem to be creating my own block chain, are there any peers for testnet1, even testnet2 that I can use?
<sipa> no
<PottyLarry> :'(
<sipa> the code for those was removed years ago
<sipa> if you want your own testnet, use regtest
<PottyLarry> i dont want my own testnet
<PottyLarry> i want to join https://grinexplorer.net chain
<sipa> then you'll need grin software
<PottyLarry> i have grin
<sipa> then what is your question about?
<sipa> oh, this is wizards
<esotericnonsense> ha.
<sipa> i thought you were on another channel
<PottyLarry> yeah sorry ive got my gringots wizard hat on
<PottyLarry> following the guide on github, has basically lead me to run my own chain, i need peers
<esotericnonsense> PottyLarry: unfortunately this is not the channel for literal wizardry.
<sipa> i don't know what testnet1 and testnet2 mean in the context of grin; i thought were were asking about bitcoin
<sipa> but you're likely better off asking in grin specific channels
<PottyLarry> so none of you are crypto blockchain experts?
<PottyLarry> :'(
<sipa> this channel is more about theoretical ideas
<sipa> not specific currencies
<PottyLarry> I understand. I've seen the chat logs
<PottyLarry> your all genius
<PottyLarry> I just figured, this is the place to be.... this is the best mailing list there is
<PottyLarry> i want to be a hewo
<PottyLarry> and die
* PottyLarry fires thunderbolts at all genius
* PottyLarry runs away tehehehe
<sipa> please keep it technical
<PottyLarry> cuckoo has cities, roads, is it just 2 cities, billions of roads, and has to find 1 or 2 roads that connect?
<PottyLarry> oh shit, its 2 countries, 2 billion cities, and billions of roads?
<PottyLarry> yeah i'm best just listening to the technical chat. sorry to have bothered.
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<esotericnonsense> do we have any general consensus on the 'period' we consider nlocktime tx to be valid for the purpose of some future fork (soft or hard) that might restrict their usage?
<esotericnonsense> for example unless there is some cap on nlocktime I'm not aware of, I could make some tx nlocktimed to 50 years from now and delete the keys such that this nlocktime tx is the only way of me spending it, and then a fork-like change that, for example, disables version 1 transactions or something, even if it's in 40 years' time, would represent a confiscation
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<kanzure> "Advisory: secret size attack on cross-chain hash lock smart contracts" https://gist.github.com/markblundeberg/7a932c98179de2190049f5823907c016
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<kanzure> i wonder how lightning handles that.
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<andytoshi> likely by only working on bitcoin
<AndyS2> hm, doesn't the 520 byte limit just make something non-standard, meaning a miner could do this attack even in decreds setup?
<andytoshi> last i looked at this issue (many months ago) nothing was vulnerable except some random ethereum things
<Varunram> AndyS2: seems like it, "The contracts do however lack size checks, meaning they will be exploitable when expanding to other cryptocurrencies"
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<kanzure> ah.
<kanzure> thanks.
<AndyS2> Varunram: hm, just checked the code, MAX_SCRIPT_ELEMENT_SIZE = 520 seems to be a constant that might prevent anything larger from being valid
<AndyS2> haven't looked into it further, just an impression
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<maaku> kanzure: there's no reason for Alice to claim Bob's contract in some other random chain she didn't know about, which is the setup
<maaku> AndyS2: the 520 byte limit is consensus
<maaku> it's a rather important DoS limitation
<AndyS2> maaku: thank you. I checked the code a bit further and it really looks like it. I guess it can only ever be increased?
<AndyS2> nevermind, I guess you could make it more complicated, like other things
<kanzure> do you mean decreased
<AndyS2> nah, I meant increased. old blocks would stay valid if you increased it. a decrease however would need to become live at a certain block height else the old blockchain might become invalid :)
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<luke-jr> AndyS2: making valid things invalid is a heck of a lot easier than making invalid things valid
<AndyS2> luke-jr: oh, why is that?
<sipa> making things invalid only requires a majority hashrate to enforce it initially (and a slower rampup of full nodes to orevent them from stopping the enforcement) to nit result in a permanent fork
<sipa> making things valid that weren't valid before alwaya requires every network participant to adapt their software before the change takes effect
<kanzure> also it's backwards compatible if you do decreases
<luke-jr> what sipa said, and you can deal with historical violations by having exceptions
<kanzure> at least from a node perspective... worst case is you might have some anti-dos banning stuff if a node is sending around large values or whatever.
<kanzure> (which could lead to partioning, which is a worse worst case)
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<Eliel> Has anyone toyed with the idea of trying to design a mining algorithm through a process that involves LN protocol routing?
<AndyS2> hmm, I think I get it now. it's because old nodes would still follow the longest chain with stricter rules, whereas looser rules would cause a split.
<AndyS2> thanks
<sipa> AndyS2: bingo
<Eliel> (or rather, perhaps not a mining algorithm but a consensus process)
<Eliel> My intuition is telling me that the privacy properties in the routing algo potentially make it possible.
<Eliel> no idea how, just yet though.
<sipa> what are you trying to accomplish?
<Eliel> I just thought it'd be kind of beautiful if LN could be both a scaling mechanism as well an essential part of the consensus process.
<Eliel> no especial goal that I'm aware of
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<roasbeef> kanzure: we fixed that pre-image size issue in 2016 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2016-May/000529.html
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