sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<PottyLarry>
I seem to be creating my own block chain, are there any peers for testnet1, even testnet2 that I can use?
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<esotericnonsense>
do we have any general consensus on the 'period' we consider nlocktime tx to be valid for the purpose of some future fork (soft or hard) that might restrict their usage?
<esotericnonsense>
for example unless there is some cap on nlocktime I'm not aware of, I could make some tx nlocktimed to 50 years from now and delete the keys such that this nlocktime tx is the only way of me spending it, and then a fork-like change that, for example, disables version 1 transactions or something, even if it's in 40 years' time, would represent a confiscation
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<kanzure>
i wonder how lightning handles that.
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<andytoshi>
likely by only working on bitcoin
<AndyS2>
hm, doesn't the 520 byte limit just make something non-standard, meaning a miner could do this attack even in decreds setup?
<andytoshi>
last i looked at this issue (many months ago) nothing was vulnerable except some random ethereum things
<Varunram>
AndyS2: seems like it, "The contracts do however lack size checks, meaning they will be exploitable when expanding to other cryptocurrencies"
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<kanzure>
ah.
<kanzure>
thanks.
<AndyS2>
Varunram: hm, just checked the code, MAX_SCRIPT_ELEMENT_SIZE = 520 seems to be a constant that might prevent anything larger from being valid
<AndyS2>
haven't looked into it further, just an impression
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<maaku>
kanzure: there's no reason for Alice to claim Bob's contract in some other random chain she didn't know about, which is the setup
<maaku>
AndyS2: the 520 byte limit is consensus
<maaku>
it's a rather important DoS limitation
<AndyS2>
maaku: thank you. I checked the code a bit further and it really looks like it. I guess it can only ever be increased?
<AndyS2>
nevermind, I guess you could make it more complicated, like other things
<kanzure>
do you mean decreased
<AndyS2>
nah, I meant increased. old blocks would stay valid if you increased it. a decrease however would need to become live at a certain block height else the old blockchain might become invalid :)
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<luke-jr>
AndyS2: making valid things invalid is a heck of a lot easier than making invalid things valid
<AndyS2>
luke-jr: oh, why is that?
<sipa>
making things invalid only requires a majority hashrate to enforce it initially (and a slower rampup of full nodes to orevent them from stopping the enforcement) to nit result in a permanent fork
<sipa>
making things valid that weren't valid before alwaya requires every network participant to adapt their software before the change takes effect
<kanzure>
also it's backwards compatible if you do decreases
<luke-jr>
what sipa said, and you can deal with historical violations by having exceptions
<kanzure>
at least from a node perspective... worst case is you might have some anti-dos banning stuff if a node is sending around large values or whatever.
<kanzure>
(which could lead to partioning, which is a worse worst case)
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<Eliel>
Has anyone toyed with the idea of trying to design a mining algorithm through a process that involves LN protocol routing?
<AndyS2>
hmm, I think I get it now. it's because old nodes would still follow the longest chain with stricter rules, whereas looser rules would cause a split.
<AndyS2>
thanks
<sipa>
AndyS2: bingo
<Eliel>
(or rather, perhaps not a mining algorithm but a consensus process)
<Eliel>
My intuition is telling me that the privacy properties in the routing algo potentially make it possible.
<Eliel>
no idea how, just yet though.
<sipa>
what are you trying to accomplish?
<Eliel>
I just thought it'd be kind of beautiful if LN could be both a scaling mechanism as well an essential part of the consensus process.
<Eliel>
no especial goal that I'm aware of
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