sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<fibonacci_>
For being wizards (or as I like to say HUGE NERDS) you sure are a quiet bunch.
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<tromp_>
:q
<tromp_>
wrong window:(
<tromp_>
(oops; just revealed my editor religion:)
<instagibbs>
<insert Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 joke>
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<fluffypony>
kanzure, Eliel: I missed the question on botnets, is it still open?
<Eliel>
fluffypony: yes, it's the kind of always open question :)
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<kanzure>
fluffypony: yes the question is whether we have data on botnets mining altcoins
<fluffypony>
we don't have any hard data for Monero
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<Eliel>
well, hard data is probably very hard to get. the botnets most likely won't want to advertise being botnets
<fluffypony>
we're pretty sure there are multiple botnets mining it, besides the obvious like AdylKuzz and the QNAP malware
<kanzure>
elaborate on the obvious ones?
<fluffypony>
AdylKuzz predates WannaCry
<fluffypony>
but uses the same infection vectors
<fluffypony>
was only discovered after WannaCry
<fluffypony>
it looks like the only thing it does is mine Monero
<Eliel>
fluffypony: do you have an estimate for how much of the hashpower is from botnets?
<fluffypony>
when they use known pools we contact them and they ban the mining address
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<fluffypony>
so they setup private pools
<fluffypony>
which means they're in the 18% "Unknown" section
<fluffypony>
I'd imagine that the entire 18% is made up of botnets, or at least most of it
<kanzure>
wouldn't it be better to know who they are..?
<fluffypony>
a small portion will be solo miners
<fluffypony>
kanzure: can't identify a private pool
<Eliel>
ok, that's a percentage that's still tolerable in terms of security.
<kanzure>
no i mean why are you asking them to ban the known addresses?
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<fluffypony>
oh I see
<kanzure>
wait what why would 18% be tolerable
<fluffypony>
so QNAP asked us to get IPs first
<fluffypony>
and it was using a known pool, so I pointed them to the pool
<kanzure>
(i'm a little hesitant to be okay with "all unknown is botnet" btw)
<fluffypony>
the pool harvested IP addresses for a while, but is returning null getwork (or our getwork equivalent)
<fluffypony>
I don't know much beyond that because I'm out the loop and the QNAP engineers are dealing directly with the pool now
<Eliel>
kanzure: if it was one centralized party, it wouldn't be tolerable. However, it's an open competition internally.
<fluffypony>
yeah it's multiple botnets making up the 18%, and it's not like they can avoid following the rules
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<kanzure>
fluffypony: context is hypothetical bitcoin pow change, concern is that botnets will immediately deploy the pow change and this makes the whole thing less decentralized.
<fluffypony>
ah I see
<fluffypony>
I don't think they could deploy changes that quickly
<fluffypony>
a lot of these seem to be fire-and-forget with no C&C
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<fluffypony>
so when the mining pool started blackholing them they didn't change pools
<kanzure>
botnet operators have forgotten how to deploy software?
<fluffypony>
they just kept beating the same pool
<fluffypony>
and new IPs were doing the same thing
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<kanzure>
fluffypony: thanks.
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<fluffypony>
pleasure
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