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00:06
<
shevy >
hmm I got a string including umlauts "Brücke-Überhang"
00:06
<
shevy >
ruby doesn't like .gsub on it
00:06
<
shevy >
cal.rb:42:in `gsub': invalid byte sequence in US-ASCII (ArgumentError)
00:06
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00:10
<
shevy >
cal.rb:42:in `encode': "\xFC" on US-ASCII (Encoding::InvalidByteSequenceError)
00:10
<
shevy >
having a lot of fun with encoding
00:12
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00:12
<
shinobi_one >
shevy: encoding in all languages is a hassle
00:12
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00:12
<
shevy >
not in good old ruby 1.8!
00:12
<
shevy >
the same script works without any problem on 1.8 :(
00:13
<
davidcelis >
# encoding: utf-8
00:13
<
shinobi_one >
yeah they changed encoding stuff in 1.9 i believe
00:13
<
shevy >
I dont use utf-8 so what now
00:13
<
davidcelis >
why wouldn't you
00:13
<
davidcelis >
that's just... i don't even..
00:13
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00:13
<
shevy >
ok so what now
00:13
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00:13
<
shinobi_one >
convert to utf-8!
00:13
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00:13
<
shevy >
not possible
00:13
<
davidcelis >
convert to utf-8
00:13
<
shevy >
any other solution?
00:13
<
shinobi_one >
lol not possible?
00:13
<
davidcelis >
why can't you?
00:14
<
davidcelis >
you stick the comment i put on the top of your script. your script is now utf-8
00:14
<
shevy >
because it messes up my umlauts
00:14
<
davidcelis >
unicode has umlauts
00:14
<
davidcelis >
whät ärë yöü tälkïng äböüt
00:15
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00:16
<
shinobi_one >
that's one to be recorded "because it messes up my umlauts"
00:16
<
shinobi_one >
i'm gonna say that shit when i'm drunk some day and someone will be like .. wut
00:16
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00:16
<
shinobi_one >
wadafuck
00:16
<
shevy >
it does. when I save my file in UTF-8, my umlauts are replaced with \e entities
00:16
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00:18
<
shevy >
what is this exactly doing:
00:18
<
shevy >
some_string.encode('ASCII-8BIT')
00:18
<
shevy >
the odd thing is that I get an error like this:
00:18
<
shevy >
in `encode': "\xFC" on US-ASCII (Encoding::InvalidByteSequenceError)
00:19
<
shevy >
but my .rb script has # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT on its second line
00:19
<
shevy >
I am not sure where from US-ASCII comes here
00:19
<
shinobi_one >
good god man
00:19
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00:19
<
shevy >
the only other culprit I can see would be a File.readlines
00:20
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00:20
<
fowl >
if you save your file in utf-8 why set encoding to ascii?
00:20
<
shevy >
I do not use utf-8
00:20
<
fowl >
im not sure us-ascii and ascii-8bit are the same, 8bit is meant for binary data
00:21
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<
shevy >
How can one query the encoding in use for a string object?
00:21
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00:22
<
shinobi_one >
shevy
00:23
<
shevy >
alias :? :lambda
00:23
<
shinobi_one >
"a".encoding
00:23
<
fowl >
alias λ lambda should work
00:23
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00:24
<
shevy >
#<Encoding:US-ASCII>
00:24
<
shevy >
my File.readlines gives me US-ASCII stuff :(
00:24
<
shevy >
well, at least I now know why it fails
00:24
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00:26
<
shevy >
it seems .force_encoding works
00:26
<
shevy >
thanks for the hints
00:26
<
fowl >
a very german way to think, that you can just force your encoding on others without reprisal
00:27
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00:28
<
shinobi_one >
lmao fowl
00:28
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00:28
<
shevy >
umlauts should die
00:28
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00:31
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00:31
<
shevy >
one day we will all use english language only
00:31
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00:33
<
ggreer >
ümläüts ärë
00:33
<
shinobi_one >
shevy: lol in business yes
00:33
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00:33
<
ggreer >
also, so are supplemental unicode planes
00:33
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00:34
<
graspee >
jesus- is this the part time ruby and racism channel now?
00:35
<
shinobi_one >
idk ask jesus
00:35
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy, english is so.... wayward though :|
00:35
<
LorentzFactor >
1000 ways to say the same thing, and half the speaking population can't get it right..
00:35
<
shevy >
we gotta settle for a language
00:35
<
shevy >
chinese is just insane to type
00:35
<
LorentzFactor >
chinese is hard to talk also
00:36
<
LorentzFactor >
being tonal
00:36
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00:36
<
LorentzFactor >
it's really awkward from non-tonal languages ..
00:36
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00:36
<
LorentzFactor >
plus there's like a ton of languages in china that are completely different, mandarin, cantonese, and several others
00:37
<
seanstickle >
English is the new Latin, and will probably have a lifecycle not unlike its world-spanning predecessor.
00:37
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00:37
<
LorentzFactor >
the problem with english is it changes so much, it won't even sound like english in another 400 years
00:37
<
shevy >
400 years is ok
00:37
<
banisterfiend >
seanstickle: latin was the new greek
00:37
<
seanstickle >
banisterfiend: true fact
00:37
<
banisterfiend >
seanstickle: greek was possibly the new minoan
00:37
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00:38
<
seanstickle >
Not so true a fact.
00:38
<
shevy >
do the chinese use the metric system?
00:38
<
seanstickle >
shevy: yes
00:38
<
ggreer >
pretty much all languages change over time. modern greek is very different from ancient greek
00:38
<
LorentzFactor >
no no I realize
00:38
<
shevy >
lol LorentzFactor
00:38
<
shevy >
that's like grunting aliens
00:38
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00:38
<
LorentzFactor >
that's your english
00:38
<
banisterfiend >
seanstickle: wanna what's even more fucked up, in byzantine era, greek was the new latin which was the new greek. So greek scholars living in byzantium spoke latin, and latin scholars living in western roman empire spoke greek.
00:39
<
graspee >
modern greek is a lot more similar to ancient greek than english is to any previous form of english
00:39
<
shevy >
though it does sound a little bit more germanic than today's english
00:39
<
LorentzFactor >
indeed
00:39
<
ggreer >
I like english because it doesn't have a problem stealing words from other languages
00:39
<
seanstickle >
graspee: middle english is not so difficult
00:39
<
LorentzFactor >
although, speaking german, I will say that english has a lot of german to it, if the accent wasn't so off
00:39
<
Neal__ >
Hi everyone, quick question about ruby's secureRandom. Is this a good place to ask?
00:39
<
banisterfiend >
LorentzFactor: english is german with some french sprinkled on top
00:40
<
graspee >
no it's racism and language analysis here
00:40
<
shevy >
kindergarten always kills me when I hear it
00:40
<
LorentzFactor >
banghouseAFK, s/french/everything/
00:40
<
seanstickle >
Neal__: no, you want to go to #linguistics
00:40
<
banisterfiend >
LorentzFactor: particularly french, after the norman conquest in 1066
00:40
<
shevy >
Neal__ don't mind graspee, he is in a bad mood since his last epic comment on bash-org is 12 years ago
00:40
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy, and what of smaller words, like Salt, salz (z in german being ts sound) salts -> english salt
00:40
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00:40
<
banisterfiend >
LorentzFactor: a lot of the english 'posh' words are french, because the normans became the english aristocracy and spoke only french
00:40
<
shevy >
never thought that about salt yet
00:41
<
shevy >
if they append a 's' it's indeed german suddenly
00:41
<
shevy >
well almost
00:41
<
graspee >
clearly you haven't seen the famous documentary: "The fascinating World of Salt"
00:41
<
ggreer >
honcho, abacus, camel, boomerang, boondocks. (japanese, hebrew, australian aboriginal) for example
00:41
<
quazimodo >
elsif???? thats intuitive
00:41
<
Neal__ >
Isn't that the netscape ssl vuln from 1994?
00:42
<
banisterfiend >
quazimodo: looks better than "elseif"
00:42
<
LorentzFactor >
elsif is used in many languages
00:42
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00:42
<
ggreer >
also neat: when it comes to food, french words often refer to the prepared meat, while anglo-saxon words refer to the live animal
00:43
<
ggreer >
pig/pork, cow/beef, sheep/mutton
00:43
<
banisterfiend >
ggreer: poultry vs chicken
00:43
<
LorentzFactor >
hair in german, haar
00:43
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00:43
<
banisterfiend >
ggreer: also most of the swear words in english are algo-saxon, as they were base and used by the underclasses, unlike the norman french overlords who never swore ;)
00:44
<
banisterfiend >
fuck is anglo-saxon apparently
00:44
<
shevy >
fowl learned the word Götterdämmerung today
00:44
<
LorentzFactor >
umlauts are nice
00:44
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00:44
<
shevy >
yeah but he stripped them away
00:44
<
LorentzFactor >
you don't have to type the extra e
00:44
<
shevy >
it is now "gotterdammerung" for him on github
00:44
<
LorentzFactor >
goutterdaummerung... woo
00:44
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00:44
<
LorentzFactor >
er goett
00:44
<
LorentzFactor >
I can't type today
00:45
<
shevy >
he shows no mercy with german umlauts
00:45
<
seanstickle >
Well, it's no Quenya, but it'll have to do.
00:46
<
LorentzFactor >
I'll tell you what is strange of english
00:46
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00:46
<
LorentzFactor >
the silent letters in such strange ways
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
all of the L's are silent when following A within a word... =\
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
falcon, balm, palm, salmon,
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
etc.
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
what's even stranger of this
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
up until a couple hundred years ago falcon was spelled faucon
00:47
<
LorentzFactor >
but they added a silent L... :|
00:48
<
shevy >
that sounds french
00:48
<
shevy >
faucon punch!
00:48
<
LorentzFactor >
that's how iti s pronounced in english hah
00:48
<
seanstickle >
palm has a silent l ?
00:48
<
shevy >
who speaks french... and can say what is "falcon" in french
00:48
<
seanstickle >
How the hell are you pronouncing it?
00:48
<
shevy >
paaaaaaaaaaahm!
00:48
<
LorentzFactor >
fôʹkən
00:48
<
LorentzFactor >
is how it is said
00:49
<
seanstickle >
Not how I say it.
00:49
<
LorentzFactor >
dictionary says wrong :s
00:49
<
LorentzFactor >
do you say the L in salmon?
00:49
<
LorentzFactor >
or Palm?
00:49
<
seanstickle >
Yes...
00:49
<
shinobi_one >
you say the l in palm lol
00:49
<
shinobi_one >
not in salmon
00:49
<
shevy >
I think in salmon ... that's in monty python... I watched that a few hundred times... the salmon mousse
00:49
<
seanstickle >
Shockingly, dictionaries are not always reflective of actual usage
00:49
<
LorentzFactor >
it's not sposed to be there..
00:50
<
LorentzFactor >
... you're missing the point, this is why english is a mess :p
00:50
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00:50
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00:50
<
seanstickle >
LorentzFactor: because people pronounce things differently?
00:50
<
seanstickle >
LorentzFactor: that, sir, is called "language"
00:50
<
LorentzFactor >
uhm... pronounciation differing, ie. accents, yes.. but this is like
00:50
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00:50
<
LorentzFactor >
me saying Mountain . "BowTon"
00:50
<
seanstickle >
You can call French a very badly pronounced Latin if you want, but I don't see that it gets you very far
00:50
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00:50
<
LorentzFactor >
because "that's how I say it"
00:51
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00:52
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00:52
<
shevy >
english is still simpler than german
00:52
<
LorentzFactor >
it's like the english word Colonel that tickles me
00:52
<
shevy >
ruby uses english too!
00:52
<
LorentzFactor >
it comes from the french word for Column -> Coronel
00:52
<
LorentzFactor >
but english added two L's made em both silent
00:52
<
shevy >
imagine if matz would have used only those japanese kanji symbols
00:52
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00:52
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00:53
<
LorentzFactor >
german is very simple?
00:53
<
shevy >
Coronel is french for column?
00:53
<
LorentzFactor >
yeh
00:53
<
shevy >
german is more complicated than english
00:53
<
shevy >
and it has crazy long words
00:53
<
LorentzFactor >
that's where english colonel comes from
00:53
<
seanstickle >
LorentzFactor: actually, it took the spelling from the italian
00:53
<
seanstickle >
colonella
00:53
<
seanstickle >
But retained the middle french pronunciation
00:53
<
LorentzFactor >
yeah, but the word itself came from the french word in pronounciation
00:53
<
LorentzFactor >
yeh
00:53
<
shevy >
"Dampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft"
00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy, those aren't "long" words per se.
00:54
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00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
they're just lacking spaces... it gets easy once you're used to it
00:54
<
seanstickle >
shevy: how are you measuring complexity?
00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy write someone a 1,234,567,890 dollar check
00:54
<
shevy >
seanstickle grammar rules, length of words ... Capitalization vs. no capitalization
00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
and see how you feel then lol
00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
the grammar rules of german are super simple :|
00:54
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00:54
<
shevy >
the sharp s called ß
00:54
<
seanstickle >
shevy: I would love to see your calculations
00:54
<
LorentzFactor >
All nouns are capital
00:55
<
shevy >
and umlauts!
00:55
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00:55
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00:55
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy, umlauts = [vowel]+e
00:55
<
seanstickle >
English has the esset too, but we stopped using the long-s
00:55
<
seanstickle >
So the esset also went away
00:55
<
shevy >
english used the sharp ß ?
00:55
<
seanstickle >
shevy: sure, you know the long-s right?
00:55
<
shevy >
oh, "esset"... did not know that word
00:55
<
LorentzFactor >
seanstickle, no we had half the eszett
00:55
<
LorentzFactor >
in english
00:55
<
seanstickle >
shevy: asset is just long-s connected to short-s
00:56
<
seanstickle >
*esset
00:56
<
seanstickle >
Very common orthography in the 17-18th century printing
00:56
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00:56
<
LorentzFactor >
seanstickle, I've always seen it as a long s connected to a cursive z
00:56
<
shevy >
in old german texts, the s were more looking like f in written text
00:56
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00:56
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00:56
<
seanstickle >
shevy: yeah, that's how the long-s looks in English too
00:56
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00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
I have a book
00:57
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00:57
<
seanstickle >
shevy: makes reading old chemical textbooks fun
00:57
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00:57
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00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
from 1763 (cheselden's book of human anatomy"
00:57
<
seanstickle >
Lots of "sucking" of this or that through a tube
00:57
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00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
it has them all in it
00:57
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00:57
<
shevy >
LorentzFactor I could not tell you what character that is
00:57
<
shevy >
it looks as alien as chinese to me
00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
what character?
00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
the long s?
00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
that's a cursive Z
00:57
<
LorentzFactor >
even english learn this
00:58
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00:58
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00:58
<
shevy >
in 50 years, people will be barely able to write with their hands anymore
00:58
<
seanstickle >
shevy: there's a nice example
00:58
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00:58
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00:59
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00:59
<
shevy >
what is that word... "prefs" ?
00:59
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00:59
<
seanstickle >
ligature the first s to the second s and you have an esset
00:59
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00:59
<
seanstickle >
shevy: Congress
00:59
<
shevy >
hmm I can see that now
00:59
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01:00
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01:00
<
LorentzFactor >
that's the other half of the eszett hence Es (S) tsett (Z)
01:00
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01:00
<
LorentzFactor >
shevy,
01:00
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01:00
<
LorentzFactor >
the tsett being a cursive Z in the ß
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<
Phelps >
what is << called ?
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<
Phelps >
or whats the action of it called in the context of "user.object << item"
01:36
<
Phelps >
I know its "shift left" but that only makes sense with bit shifting to me
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<
seanstickle >
Phelps: append
01:37
<
Phelps >
mkay, thanks
01:38
<
Phelps >
wasn't sure and it came up in conversation
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<
otters >
shovel operator
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<
Spooner >
Not the "two invisible pacmen with visible teeth" operator?
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<
banisterfiend >
Spooner: what games do u hae in mind for evolution theme
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<
RubyPanther >
I thought it was the slap-chop-operator
02:23
<
oddmunds >
she had some reason, though
02:23
<
oddmunds >
i didn't catch it on the bus
02:24
<
oddmunds >
but it was something with her something
02:24
<
oddmunds >
her flatmate or something
02:24
<
oddmunds >
i don't knwo
02:24
<
oddmunds >
i was up for makeouts and sexyhugs
02:25
<
oddmunds >
wrong channel
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<
fowl >
oddmunds: sorry we're missing out :(
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<
oddmunds >
yeah, this was supposed to go to #penthouse_letters
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<
Jerbot >
Is there a ruby lance chan?
02:53
<
seanstickle >
For sparring like knights of old?
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<
seanstickle >
I think that's why we have this channel
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<
reactormonk >
ruby lance?
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<
seanstickle >
reactormonk: for jousting!
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03:11
<
ndboost >
hey uh, can someone compare capybara to rspec?
03:11
<
ndboost >
are they both TDD?
03:12
<
ndboost >
i want to get into a TDD workflow
03:12
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<
fowl >
if by TDD you mean Totally Dynamic, Dude! then yes!
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03:28
<
RubyPanther >
Totally Driven Development (dude)
03:28
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<
RubyPanther >
I need some Ruby lancing icons, one with a jousting competition, and another, lancing a ruby with a scalpel
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<
DrunkDave >
My PC got shut down before I had a chance to look into any possible responses....
03:31
<
DrunkDave >
I had just asked if there was a rubylance?
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<
Banistergalaxy >
Rubypanther do you like nicki minaj?
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<
DrunkDave >
RubyPanther: I meant on Freenode, dude. lol
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<
RubyPanther >
a link is the best you're going to do, I can't run a lance right through your IRC client... you don't have the right plugin
03:58
<
DrunkDave >
I see....
03:58
<
DrunkDave >
How about a sword?
03:58
<
RubyPanther >
Did you install the plugin?
03:59
<
DrunkDave >
No, man. Not yet. I'm getting around to it.
03:59
<
RubyPanther >
Then no.
04:00
<
DrunkDave >
Yeah, I meant a freelancer hangout, though. hehe
04:01
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04:01
<
RubyPanther >
There was once, but it so totally redundant that it shriveled up and died.
04:02
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<
DrunkDave >
It had ED.
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<
DrunkDave >
Hey what version of ror do you recommend, man?
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<
DrunkDave >
1.8.7 p370 or 1.9.3 p194?
04:10
<
DrunkDave >
I'm just going to go with 1.8.7 b/c cop killers would.
04:10
<
DrunkDave >
OH man shit look at me in the wrong channel
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<
RubyPanther >
"Ruby 2 is coming and 1.8 has no future"
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<
jtbandes >
hi, is there a way, using Net::HTTP with SSL, to get the address it connected to? with a socket you can just use addr & peeraddr
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<
banisterfiend >
Paradox: you've been partying hard on friday night?
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<
Paradox >
bar crawl
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<
Paradox >
no, he ran out of lemons one week, then shot up in a theater
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10:41
<
atmosx >
is this a readline related?
10:42
<
shevy >
this is a weird error
10:42
<
shevy >
it seems more encoding related than readline related to me
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<
shevy >
how did you get this error? and what is your $LANG value
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<
burgestrand >
atmosx: looks like rdoc is trying to generate docs from xml files to me
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<
burgestrand >
banisterfiend: looks like you really dig poetry, it’s not the first one :)
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<
atmosx >
shevy: gem update
11:16
<
shevy >
hah I never did gem update so far
11:17
<
atmosx >
$LANG nothing
11:17
<
banisterfiend >
34d
11:17
<
banisterfiend >
3rd
11:17
<
atmosx >
that's why export LANG="el_GR.ISO8859-7"
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11:20
<
shevy >
the evil greek language
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<
Hanmac >
cicatristeza .. did you try gem update?
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11:29
<
cicatristeza >
hanmac: you mean gem update ruby yes?
11:29
<
cicatristeza >
sorry i mean gem update jekyll yes?
11:30
<
cicatristeza >
ok, doing now
11:30
<
Hanmac >
hm you could try to update webrick too (of possible)
11:31
<
cicatristeza >
just tried, same result
11:31
<
cicatristeza >
is webrick a gem?
11:31
<
burgestrand >
0.11.2 is the newest jekyll
11:31
<
cicatristeza >
burgestrand: i have the latest jekyll
11:31
<
burgestrand >
yes, I just said that
11:32
<
cicatristeza >
also, how do i update webrick?
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<
burgestrand >
cicatristeza: what does your _config.yml look like?
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11:37
<
burgestrand >
cicatristeza: server_port: 9000, not [9000]
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<
burgestrand >
auto: true, or auto: false, not [boolean]
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11:37
<
Hanmac >
PS: webrick is installable as gem too
11:38
<
burgestrand >
cicatristeza: but server_port is your main issue
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<
burgestrand >
banisterfiend: soon birds will eat us all
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11:41
<
banisterfiend >
burgestrand: hehehee im spending the last while watching birds catching fish vids
11:41
<
banisterfiend >
it's relaxing
11:43
<
atmosx >
can I install all gems at once?
11:43
<
burgestrand >
atmosx: all gems in the world on your computer at the same time sounds like a waste
11:44
<
atmosx >
burgestrand: I think I've broken some deps
11:44
<
Hanmac >
atmosx you could install manygems you want
11:44
<
atmosx >
and I don't have too many
11:44
<
burgestrand >
atmosx: you could to "gem pristine --all"
11:45
<
burgestrand >
Not sure if that reinstalls dependencies though
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<
burgestrand >
Naw, just gem install those things
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11:54
<
atmosx >
this must be a problem specific to this gem
11:54
<
atmosx >
burgestrand: what gem pristine -all will do?
11:55
<
shevy >
atmosx this is why I keep a local backup of all .gem files I use
11:55
<
burgestrand >
atmosx: The pristine command compares the installed gems with the contents of the cached gem and restores any files that don't match the cached gem's copy. If you have made modifications to your installed gems, the pristine command will revert them.
11:55
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11:55
<
burgestrand >
I got that from "gem help pristine" by the way.
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<
atmosx >
burgestrand: ah good to know
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11:58
<
atmosx >
I'm running it
11:58
<
atmosx >
I won't code anything in the server yet, I'll figure it out what's happening later on
11:59
<
atmosx >
gonna eat to 'taverna' as long as they still exist
11:59
<
atmosx >
better use it
11:59
<
shevy >
as long as they still exist :D
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12:01
<
andy7534211 >
it works fine in ruby 18, but not ruby 19..
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<
burgestrand >
andy7534211: that is some seriously crazy code, what are you *doing*?
12:05
<
andy7534211 >
it was part of a compiler i wrote in ruby a while ago, which i'm not porting to ruby 1.9
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<
Mon_Ouie >
You should expect bad things to happen when you define a naive catch-all method_missing, especially a global one
12:07
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12:07
<
Mon_Ouie >
It means all objects have inconsistent behavior, and methods that rely on checking if a method is available, etc. all break
12:10
<
Hanmac >
... but normaly method checking should go with respond_to? ... but it seems that some core methods does it a bit different
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12:11
<
shevy >
method_missing on kernel is a huge thing to try
12:11
<
andy7534211 >
ok, i'm just going to remove it.. it was just a fun hack at one point to do something like this:
http://vpaste.net/O5NTg
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13:10
<
cicatristeza >
burgestrand: you still here? yes indeed, the server port is my problem. i fixed the errors in my config.yml. can you help
13:10
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13:11
<
cicatristeza >
to eevryone: when i run jekyll i get "[2012-08-25 15:08:16] WARN TCPServer Error: Address already in use - bind(2)" what do i do?
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13:20
<
xyon >
good morning everyone...
13:20
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13:20
<
xyon >
is it possible to use passenger/rack with just regular ruby scripts?
13:20
<
xyon >
(instead of jumping straight to rails or sinatra)
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13:21
<
xyon >
I'd like to get more familiar with ruby first, with the intent of moving onto rails/sinatra in the future...
13:21
<
shevy >
xyon I still use ruby-cgi
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13:22
<
xyon >
thanks shevy... that was going to be my next choice if it wasn't trivial for passenger to run normanl ruby scripts...
13:22
<
Hanmac >
is someone else interested in 3D programming with ruby?
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13:24
<
Hanmac >
shevy what is better in ruby? "materialname" or "material_name"?
13:25
<
shevy >
I'd prefer the 2nd
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13:25
<
shevy >
Hanmac, I am more interested in 2D programming... I wanna recreate (and then perhaps improve) on some old computer games
13:26
<
Hanmac >
3d is cool too
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13:28
<
xyon >
what about 2D games in 3D, explosions and things like that get depth, even though it may be a side-scroller...
13:29
<
Hanmac >
xyon yeah that is an option too (because i bind an 3d lib to ruby)
13:29
<
xyon >
Hanmac: sounds quite interesting...
13:29
<
xyon >
is it based on a particular 3d engine?
13:30
<
shevy >
Hanmac don't forget to provide working examples
13:30
<
shevy >
I find it easiest to learn from examples that work
13:30
<
Hanmac >
xyon: its ogre3d
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14:35
<
atmosx >
I need help with some SQLite3 sourcery
14:35
<
atmosx >
anyone who messed with this little bastard alive? :-P
14:38
<
seanstickle >
It's easier if you explain the problem, rather than write a plaintive prolegomena.
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14:41
<
atmosx >
prolegomena
14:41
<
atmosx >
awesome shit
14:42
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<
atmosx >
it's like if the 'select' is execute before the begin/end
14:45
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14:45
<
kiyoura >
atmosx place that code into ensure ?
14:45
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14:45
<
atmosx >
why do that?
14:45
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14:46
<
kiyoura >
if that is the case, then the begin code will be guaranteed to run first
14:46
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14:46
<
atmosx >
the insert statment is being executed, I can see it from the sqlite3 cli
14:46
<
atmosx >
nah it runs
14:46
<
atmosx >
but … I don't understand what happens exactly, it's like if it doesn't but it does
14:47
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14:47
<
atmosx >
sqlite> SELECT id FROM MRindex WHERE table_id="fasck"; #=> 6
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14:48
<
atmosx >
I'll try to retrieve it later on...
14:48
<
Bidness >
I have a pretty basic Regexp question, any Regexp experts in here?
14:48
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14:48
<
kiyoura >
Bidness, yes ask your question
14:48
<
atmosx >
Bidness: prolegomena
14:49
<
kiyoura >
atmosx, you could try inspecting index_id inside the begin block
14:49
<
atmosx >
kiyoura: like puts index_id.inspect ?
14:49
<
Bidness >
So, I want to do some_string = "expression"; exp = Regexp.new(some_string), but any time I include (), |, +, ?, etc, it doesn't work as expected
14:49
<
kiyoura >
yes, then you could determine whether its a semantic problem or Sqlite
14:49
<
Bidness >
but if I pass the Regexp.new a /expression/ it works fine
14:51
<
kiyoura >
Bidness, why not use // syntax and wrap your strings in #{}
14:51
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14:52
<
atmosx >
the code is wrong
14:52
<
atmosx >
hah the variable names...
14:52
<
kiyoura >
atmosx, haha told you :p
14:53
<
Bidness >
so some_string = "expression"; exp = Regexp.new(/#{some_string}/) is what you're saying?
14:53
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14:53
<
atmosx >
I even posted on ruby-ml
14:53
<
Spooner >
bidness: some_string = "expression"; exp = /#{some_string}/
14:53
* atmosx
<-- dickhead
14:54
<
Bidness >
ah ok. Thanks a bunch you guys
14:54
<
Spooner >
Though perhaps giving us the expression and why it doesn't work might make it easier. Not sure why you are struggling.
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<
im0b >
any one feels like giving rails info, the #rails channel is dead
14:55
<
atmosx >
best way to load file.rb in local dir is: require './file' right?
14:55
<
atmosx >
it's not elegant though, sucks
14:56
<
Spooner >
im0b : If we knew Rails, we'd be in #rails. Try #rubyonrails though
14:56
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14:56
<
im0b >
thanks Spooner
14:56
<
Spooner >
atmosx : require_relative "file" # is better
14:57
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14:57
<
kiyoura >
interesting
14:57
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<
kiyoura >
Spooner, someone proposed: require File.expand_path('relative/path', File.dirname(FILE))
14:58
<
kiyoura >
would you still consider require_relative a better option?
14:58
<
Spooner >
Well, require_relative is a bit more terse, but requires Ruby 1.9
14:58
<
kiyoura >
ah, i was wondering. ive not heard of require_relative
14:59
<
Spooner >
kiyoura : Your expand_path solution is better if you have to support 1.8 and 1.9 though (though you can use the require_relative gem to give require_relative to 1.8).
14:59
<
kiyoura >
Spooner, i think it's general best to 'write for 1.8' but be weary of 1.9
14:59
<
kiyoura >
generally*
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15:00
<
atmosx >
flatten! changes permanently the state of an object?
15:00
<
Spooner >
kiyoura Yeah, generally. Depends what you are writing of course.
15:00
<
fowl >
you're keeping our people back
15:00
<
kiyoura >
atmosx, it is a mutator, yes
15:00
<
kiyoura >
as denoted by the '!'
15:00
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15:01
<
Bidness >
Spooner: I was jus doing something like /col(o|ou)r/ for playing purposes, not doing anything complex in terms of the expression.
15:01
<
atmosx >
double_shit
15:01
<
atmosx >
ah didn't '!' meant mutator
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15:01
<
atmosx >
how can I get 9 (integer) from an array like: [['9']] ?
15:01
<
Spooner >
Bidness : for that, you want /col(?:o|ou)r/ (so that the o/ou doesn't get captured). Just a little trick.
15:01
<
atmosx >
using flatten I get a string which cannot me converted (for some reason)
15:02
<
kiyoura >
atmosx, flatten the first index?
15:02
<
kiyoura >
array[0].flatten!
15:02
<
fowl >
>> [['9']].flatten.first.to_i
15:02
<
al2o3cr >
(Fixnum) 9
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<
Bidness >
Thanks Spooner! Still relatively new to the regular expression game :P
15:02
<
atmosx >
kiyoura: gives null
15:02
<
kiyoura >
what does fowl's option give you?
15:03
<
atmosx >
fowl's solution works
15:03
<
atmosx >
thanks fowl thanks kiyoura
15:03
<
Spooner >
atmosx : Strictly it doesn't mean mutator (for example, #delete is a mutator). In this case, #flatten! does mean it mutates compared to non-mutating #flatten
15:03
<
kiyoura >
atmosx, yes '!' is merely a convention to a programmers use
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<
kiyoura >
it doesn't 'strictly' mean as such
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<
Spooner >
bidness Still not sure why you were having problems.
15:06
<
Spooner >
>> s = "col(?:o|ou)r"; [/#{s}/, /#{s}/ == Regexp.new(s)]
15:06
<
al2o3cr >
(Array) [/col(?:o|ou)r/, true]
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<
Bidness >
Spooner: I must've been doing something syntactically wrong that was messing it up in my test string, because it's working like how I thought it should now :\
15:09
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15:09
<
kiyoura >
fowl, btw for some reason i'd think you'd do [['9']].first.flatten.to_i ; i've been writing too much jquery :p
15:10
<
kiyoura >
but looking at that now i see that's silly
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<
Bidness >
Spooner, how do you specify within the regex that the string should be case insensitive?
15:13
<
kiyoura >
reg = /b(a|c)/i
15:13
<
Spooner >
Bidness : You can use //i
15:13
<
Bidness >
ok, thanks!
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<
davidcelis >
Bidness, Spooner /colou?r/
16:04
<
Spooner >
davidcelis : Yes, good point, but I don't think that was a real example :)
16:05
<
davidcelis >
jussayin bro
16:05
<
Bidness >
lol, yeah that was just an example for example's sake
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18:23
<
shevy >
so where is the fun these days
18:23
<
shevy >
"matz authored 3 days ago"
18:24
<
shevy >
no mruby github activity
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18:49
<
Paradox >
god created an idiot for practice
18:49
<
Paradox >
then he created a school board
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<
shevy >
god wrote the world in ruby
18:51
<
kiyoura >
and said it was good :-)
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18:53
<
seanstickle >
So the Higgs boson is method_missing?
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18:55
<
Paradox >
no method found
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<
kiyoura >
codepad > pastebin.com
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19:35
<
shevy >
pastie.org > codepad
19:35
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<
Hanmac >
shevy gist is cool too
19:41
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19:41
<
shevy >
I like pastie because of the default colours for ruby
19:41
<
shevy >
pastebin has awful colours
19:42
<
kiyoura >
i like codepad because when i want to show examples [although in this case we have the bot] i can run it on codepad
19:42
<
kiyoura >
pastebin has awful everything..
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19:49
<
shevy >
I typically run ruby code in irb, then copy/paste the result to irc
19:49
<
fowl >
>> 'awful everything'.upcase+'!!!'
19:49
<
al2o3cr >
(String) "AWFUL EVERYTHING!!!"
19:49
<
Mon_Ouie >
Now that we have a bot here it's easier to do that
19:49
<
shevy >
Hanmac, can I use your ruby-ogre stuff to make a fullscreen game in ruby? something simple, just a few simple widgets
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<
Hanmac >
shevy: like ogre, ruby-ogre support fullscene too ... for widgets you need yetanother binding (i have one for cegui too)
19:51
<
Hanmac >
yeah that ... i doing a binding for that too
19:51
<
Hanmac >
(the dev for that is currently sleeping)
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<
Hanmac >
shevy so the idea is : install ogre, install cegui and build it against ogre, install ruby-ogre and install ruby-cegui ... then you could use ogre & cegui from ruby
19:58
<
shevy >
yeah one thing at a time
19:58
<
shevy >
I dont have ogre installed right now for instance
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<
RubyPanther >
I like pastie because I pine for the memory of the poor dead bot.
20:01
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<
kiyoura >
pastie is ok
20:01
<
RubyPanther >
I can't even remember what color hair it had
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<
Paradox >
i prefer jist
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<
shevy >
anyone of you can compare sublime to textmate2?
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21:06
<
shevy >
Hanmac, wish me luck
21:06
<
shevy >
trying to compile ogre3d soon
21:06
<
shevy >
cegui worked it seems
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21:06
<
seanstickle >
Compilation requires luck now?
21:06
<
seanstickle >
Man, programming is harder every day
21:06
<
Hanmac >
shevy: cegui need to be compiled after ogre to detect ogre ...
21:08
<
shevy >
seanstickle never heard of heisen bugs that show up only after you recompile something? :-)
21:08
<
seanstickle >
Nah. I make sure to collapse all my waveforms first.
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<
shevy >
Hanmac, ogre version 1.8.0 is what you are using?
21:08
<
shevy >
got also 1.7.4 hmm
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<
Hanmac >
shevy i have ogre-1.8 as package
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21:48
<
shevy >
what is nicer
21:48
<
shevy >
array = %w( a b c d e f )
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<
shevy >
array[3,0] = 'g'
21:48
<
shevy >
array # => ["a", "b", "c", "g", "d", "e", "f"]
21:48
<
shevy >
array = %w( a b c d e f )
21:49
<
shevy >
array.insert 3,'g'
21:49
<
shevy >
array # => ["a", "b", "c", "g", "d", "e", "f"]
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21:50
<
kiyoura >
im quite sure they're aliased
21:50
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21:52
<
shevy >
in the epic .collect vs .map war, I always use .map
21:52
<
shevy >
here I somehow prefer []
21:53
<
kiyoura >
i prefer .map, more functional-like :-)
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22:07
<
maletor >
What would be indicitive of memory usage always going up and never going down? A memory leak right? That's what I thought, but inspecting ObjectSpace shows that there are no 'run-away' objects. Is this a C-level leak?
22:09
<
Spooner >
maletor : I don't think Ruby ever frees system memory, even when it needs less. It just allocates another block of memory if it needs more.
22:10
<
Spooner >
I am not sure I'm right about that though. I'm sure someone can clarify.
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22:11
<
melfar >
maletor, a growing array with a global visibility won't technically be a leak, but since it's not deallocated until the process has finished running, it will appear as a leak
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<
shevy >
maletor I guess there are many possibilities
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22:15
<
fowl >
ruby is like pacman and the dots are your memory
22:16
<
fowl >
shevy: keineSchweine, good name or not?
22:16
<
ggreer >
what's the ruby equivalent of dowser?
22:16
<
Spooner >
maletor : Also, it looks like you are only showing objects where there are > 1000 of them. If you have an object that is 10MB in size and you add one a second, then it will run out of memory quickly, before there are 1000 of them. Just too many things could be causing your problem...I've had the same problem...
22:16
<
maletor >
there are tons i guess. a CONSTANT that is appennded to. a globally's visable array
22:16
<
ggreer >
so I don't know how to do the same thing in ruby
22:16
<
shevy >
fowl hmm it means "no pigs" ... it's a bit non-sensical, or rather, it does not really express much. my favourite is still "Götterdämmerung" though, it's really an epic word, much better than "twilight"
22:17
<
maletor >
the state of ruby memory profiling tools seems pretty weak to me atm
22:17
<
shevy >
twilight of the gods... dawn of the gods... but still cooler hehe
22:17
<
grizlo42 >
maletor: tell me about it.
22:17
<
shevy >
let's accept that ruby loves to eat memory
22:18
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22:18
<
maletor >
and i'm fine with that so long as it deallocates it
22:18
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22:18
<
maletor >
Spooner: so you think it's best to turn that ObjectSpace back on and watch for smaller counts of objects that do not get swept up?
22:19
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22:19
<
Spooner >
maletor : No idea. It depends what objects you are using. The likelihood is that only objects where you have a lot of them are causing problems; I was just pointing out one of many ways that that isn't a clear way to profile memory usage.
22:20
<
Spooner >
maletor : Another would be an array that adds 10000 new fixnums per second. Fixnums aren't seen by objectspace, but they still use up memory. The whole structure only shows as a single array in your count.
22:20
<
Spooner >
Your methodology is sound. It doesn't catch everything though.
22:21
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22:22
<
Spooner >
Shame we don't have something like dowser though. I suspect we can do everything it does in Ruby, but there just isn't a gem that does it all for you though :)
22:23
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22:24
<
Spooner >
maletor : Have you tried attaching to your process with something like pry-em (or pry-remote)? Debugging in production (at least, on Heroku) does seem a poor choice - presumably it bloats on your local machine too?
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22:29
<
fowl >
you cant shrug after a tirade like that
22:30
<
RubyPanther >
Ruby 2 already supports COW
22:30
<
maletor >
Hell ya it slows every request.
22:30
<
maletor >
I have no choice though, because I basically cannot reproduce on staging or locally and it's only a half second.
22:30
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22:31
<
maletor >
At this point, I think I just need to fucking hit everything in my routes and bisect the issue via some code path.
22:31
<
maletor >
That will take a week because my routes file is 1k loc
22:31
<
maletor >
s/fucking/f**king
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22:32
<
RubyPanther >
I poke in ObjectSpace and focus more on objects than worrying about actual memory. But I also don't create giant arrays of numbers or symbols.
22:32
<
maletor >
symbol count is 50k
22:33
<
maletor >
I can look at lower #s of instantiated objs to see if it's a 10mb large obj
22:33
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22:34
<
Spooner >
RubyPanther : The problem is that you don't know if one of the 50 gem dependencies is doing something dumb because it is broken or doing something dumb because you are misusing it.
22:34
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22:34
<
RubyPanther >
If you understand your code you can print out some stats from ObjectSpace in 5 or 10 places and find the black hole pretty quick
22:34
<
Spooner >
maletor : I would suggest instead to record all the requests made of your application and replay them locally if you can't create a test to reproduce it.
22:35
<
Spooner >
Randomly poking around on with puts on Heroku doesn't sound productive.
22:35
<
RubyPanther >
Spooner: sure exactly, lots of third party code = assume the dragon already ate your cat
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22:35
<
maletor >
i widdled down the gemfile because that's what you yelled at me last time i was here
22:36
<
Spooner >
Though it is more likely to be your fault unless you are using alpha gems :)
22:36
<
RubyPanther >
In that case I would make a branch and start ripping stuff out. Just rip half the third party stuff out at random and see if it goes away. If not, rip out the other half.
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22:36
<
Spooner >
That is your problem. You are using Rails :D
22:37
<
maletor >
I can't rip of those gems out for a reason --- they are being used.
22:37
<
maletor >
great thanks :)
22:37
<
maletor >
i knew i couldn't come to #ruby without hearing that at least once
22:37
<
RubyPanther >
The thing is, you can't let your dependencies get out of control. Once you've gotten there, you should really audit them anyways. It is like a patch of weeds. Deferring assures it will grow.
22:37
<
Spooner >
IF you are running stuff from github, that is a fishy smell already (compared to using official releases).
22:37
<
RubyPanther >
There are very, very few gems you can't ditch. Very few.
22:38
* Spooner
has no other comments.
22:38
<
maletor >
Spooner: ok well thanks spooner
22:38
<
maletor >
ya i know it's fishy
22:39
<
maletor >
i've inspected them for the most part though
22:39
<
maletor >
RubyPanther: They were out of control and now they are not.
22:39
<
Spooner >
Yeah, you should be using regexp rather than nokogiri and you can ditch rails with some sql and print statements :P
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22:40
<
RubyPanther >
That is a good example because for example a rails app has no business using nokogiri if you have some scraping that would be done in an external process
22:40
<
Spooner >
It wasn't an intentional example.
22:40
<
RubyPanther >
And you don't add a single gem past "rails" to use AR with rails. :)
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melfar >
maletor, try binary searching a revision which didn't have the leak? assuming you have a test that exhibits the leak and can be run automatically, and that your code is under revision control, and that there was a point in time when it didn't leak ;-)
22:42
<
maletor >
melfar: that's a good point
22:42
<
RubyPanther >
If you have a bunch of gems probably half of them do something absurd like add a whatthewhat to your forms where it only replaces a 2 or 3 line helper
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<
davidcelis >
RubyPanther: dont h8
22:42
<
davidcelis >
whatthewhats are awesome
22:42
<
maletor >
point taken rubypanther, but i have scrutinized the list and those are things we need
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22:44
<
maletor >
melfar: i only wish it was that easy. this started happening after we deployed something, but the dpeloy was one file, which we subsequently reverted and still no change
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22:44
<
RubyPanther >
I'm not against whatthewhat's, I am just against having a composed mishmash of gems instead of a written application. The ones that are 3 lines and BSD licensed you can paste them into a helper as if from an example as quick as you can add a gem
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22:45
<
maletor >
as it stands now, i have the team upgrading us to 19 next week. it may fix the leak, and it may not
22:45
<
davidcelis >
agreed, those gems irritate me
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<
RubyPanther >
upgrading to 1.9 should take 1 person between a few minutes (likely) and a few hours. (on the outside)
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22:47
<
maletor >
50k loc and 3 years on 1.8 does not take a few minutes
22:47
<
RubyPanther >
Even C code, it is generally three passes with sed to correct the three common changed lines
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<
RubyPanther >
If you have a slow test suite that could add a fixed startup time for sure, but it would still be a tiny project
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<
maletor >
cov is 80% and that's generous
22:49
<
maletor >
just believe me when i tell you it's gonna take 3 people a week
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22:50
<
RubyPanther >
Well I've never seen it. And while I believe they'll take that long, I don't believe it really takes them that long.
22:51
<
shevy >
good old 1.8
22:51
<
shevy >
it took me about a year to migrate all my scripts to 1.9 :(
22:51
<
shevy >
80% of that took Encoding
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22:52
<
shevy >
syntax changes such as the new hash key syntax, no ":" in case menu, the new -> operator, were quite minor compared to Encoding for me
22:53
<
RubyPanther >
You don't have to make changes for the new hash syntax, that is only if you're writing new code that you want to be backwards compatible, same for stabby lambdas
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<
RubyPanther >
2.0 the only "fun" I've had so far is that mkmf gives me a Makefile that doesn't allow // comments
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23:35
<
maletor >
RubyPanther: that sounds really fun
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23:35
<
RubyPanther >
luckily it is only one find | sed to fix n Ruby .c files though :)
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<
maletor >
shevy: there is a lot of convolution about moving 18 to 19 encoding. for me i did:
https://gist.github.com/3472308 then checked that the encoding of things in the things that are not ascii are indeed utf-8 and if they are not utf-8 delete them. i think there is one more thing to do in terms of changes to reading and writing files though, not sure yet.
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23:40
<
shevy >
I should have said that I don't use utf myself :)
23:40
<
maletor >
what do you use?
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<
shevy >
ISO-8859-15, for my .rb scripts # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT on the second line, and .force_encoding("ASCII-8BIT") on UTF-8 string objects so far, which all seems to mostly work ok
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23:44
<
shevy >
the problem in answering the question usually comes down to people who ask them to say "switch to UTF-8". this is not an option
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<
maletor >
you know, i wasn't gonna say that. i was genuinely interested in a use case for non utf-8
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23:58
<
Abbas| >
error is: Uninitialized constant Users::AccountController::UserNotification
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23:59
<
grizlo42 >
erm.... are there any wrappers around pg gem that provide a cleaner ruby API for psql access?
23:59
<
grizlo42 >
kinda like plucky for mongo?