fflush changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 1.9.3-p194: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste > 3 lines of text on pastebin.com
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<shevy> hmm I got a string including umlauts "Brücke-Überhang"
<shevy> ruby doesn't like .gsub on it
<shevy> cal.rb:42:in `gsub': invalid byte sequence in US-ASCII (ArgumentError)
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<shevy> hmmm
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<shevy> cal.rb:42:in `encode': "\xFC" on US-ASCII (Encoding::InvalidByteSequenceError)
<shevy> having a lot of fun with encoding
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<shinobi_one> shevy: encoding in all languages is a hassle
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<shevy> not in good old ruby 1.8!
<shevy> the same script works without any problem on 1.8 :(
<davidcelis> # encoding: utf-8
<shinobi_one> yeah they changed encoding stuff in 1.9 i believe
<shevy> I dont use utf-8 so what now
<davidcelis> why wouldn't you
<shinobi_one> lol
<davidcelis> that's just... i don't even..
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<shevy> ok so what now
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<shinobi_one> convert to utf-8!
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<shevy> not possible
<davidcelis> convert to utf-8
<davidcelis> why
<shevy> any other solution?
<shevy> I can't
<shinobi_one> lol not possible?
<davidcelis> why can't you?
<davidcelis> you stick the comment i put on the top of your script. your script is now utf-8
<shevy> because it messes up my umlauts
<davidcelis> dude
<davidcelis> unicode has umlauts
<davidcelis> whät ärë yöü tälkïng äböüt
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<shinobi_one> haha
<shinobi_one> that's one to be recorded "because it messes up my umlauts"
<shinobi_one> i'm gonna say that shit when i'm drunk some day and someone will be like .. wut
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<shinobi_one> wadafuck
<shevy> it does. when I save my file in UTF-8, my umlauts are replaced with \e entities
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<shevy> what is this exactly doing:
<shevy> some_string.encode('ASCII-8BIT')
<shevy> the odd thing is that I get an error like this:
<shevy> in `encode': "\xFC" on US-ASCII (Encoding::InvalidByteSequenceError)
<shevy> but my .rb script has # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT on its second line
<shevy> I am not sure where from US-ASCII comes here
<shinobi_one> good god man
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<shevy> the only other culprit I can see would be a File.readlines
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<fowl> if you save your file in utf-8 why set encoding to ascii?
<shevy> I do not use utf-8
<fowl> im not sure us-ascii and ascii-8bit are the same, 8bit is meant for binary data
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<shevy> How can one query the encoding in use for a string object?
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<shinobi_one> shevy
<shevy> alias :? :lambda
<shinobi_one> "a".encoding
<shevy> ok
<fowl> alias λ lambda should work
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<shevy> ooohhh
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<shevy> #<Encoding:US-ASCII>
<shevy> ok
<shevy> my File.readlines gives me US-ASCII stuff :(
<shevy> well, at least I now know why it fails
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<shevy> ok
<shevy> it seems .force_encoding works
<shevy> thanks for the hints
<fowl> a very german way to think, that you can just force your encoding on others without reprisal
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<shinobi_one> lmao fowl
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<shevy> umlauts should die
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<shevy> one day we will all use english language only
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<ggreer> ümläüts ärë
<shinobi_one> shevy: lol in business yes
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<ggreer> also, so are supplemental unicode planes
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<graspee> jesus- is this the part time ruby and racism channel now?
<shinobi_one> idk ask jesus
<LorentzFactor> shevy, english is so.... wayward though :|
<LorentzFactor> 1000 ways to say the same thing, and half the speaking population can't get it right..
<shevy> we gotta settle for a language
<shevy> chinese is just insane to type
<LorentzFactor> chinese is hard to talk also
<LorentzFactor> being tonal
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<LorentzFactor> it's really awkward from non-tonal languages ..
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<LorentzFactor> plus there's like a ton of languages in china that are completely different, mandarin, cantonese, and several others
<seanstickle> English is the new Latin, and will probably have a lifecycle not unlike its world-spanning predecessor.
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<LorentzFactor> the problem with english is it changes so much, it won't even sound like english in another 400 years
<shevy> 400 years is ok
<banisterfiend> seanstickle: latin was the new greek
<seanstickle> banisterfiend: true fact
<banisterfiend> seanstickle: greek was possibly the new minoan
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<seanstickle> Not so true a fact.
<shevy> do the chinese use the metric system?
<LorentzFactor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wl-OZ3breE this is how english sounded 800 yrs ago.. O.o
<seanstickle> shevy: yes
<ggreer> pretty much all languages change over time. modern greek is very different from ancient greek
<LorentzFactor> no no I realize
<shevy> lol LorentzFactor
<shevy> that's like grunting aliens
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<LorentzFactor> that's your english
<LorentzFactor> :)
<banisterfiend> seanstickle: wanna what's even more fucked up, in byzantine era, greek was the new latin which was the new greek. So greek scholars living in byzantium spoke latin, and latin scholars living in western roman empire spoke greek.
<graspee> modern greek is a lot more similar to ancient greek than english is to any previous form of english
<shevy> though it does sound a little bit more germanic than today's english
<LorentzFactor> indeed
<ggreer> I like english because it doesn't have a problem stealing words from other languages
<seanstickle> graspee: middle english is not so difficult
<LorentzFactor> although, speaking german, I will say that english has a lot of german to it, if the accent wasn't so off
<Neal__> Hi everyone, quick question about ruby's secureRandom. Is this a good place to ask?
<banisterfiend> LorentzFactor: english is german with some french sprinkled on top
<graspee> no it's racism and language analysis here
<shevy> kindergarten always kills me when I hear it
<LorentzFactor> banghouseAFK, s/french/everything/
<seanstickle> Neal__: no, you want to go to #linguistics
<banisterfiend> LorentzFactor: particularly french, after the norman conquest in 1066
<shevy> Neal__ don't mind graspee, he is in a bad mood since his last epic comment on bash-org is 12 years ago
<LorentzFactor> shevy, and what of smaller words, like Salt, salz (z in german being ts sound) salts -> english salt
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<banisterfiend> LorentzFactor: a lot of the english 'posh' words are french, because the normans became the english aristocracy and spoke only french
<shevy> cool
<shevy> never thought that about salt yet
<shevy> if they append a 's' it's indeed german suddenly
<shevy> well almost
<Neal__> ;) So I noticed that if you're using OpenSSL, then it seeds the rng with pid, parent pid, and current time. Got that from here. http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/libdoc/securerandom/rdoc/SecureRandom.html
<graspee> clearly you haven't seen the famous documentary: "The fascinating World of Salt"
<ggreer> honcho, abacus, camel, boomerang, boondocks. (japanese, hebrew, australian aboriginal) for example
<quazimodo> wow
<quazimodo> elsif???? thats intuitive
<Neal__> Isn't that the netscape ssl vuln from 1994?
<banisterfiend> quazimodo: looks better than "elseif"
<LorentzFactor> elsif is used in many languages
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<ggreer> also neat: when it comes to food, french words often refer to the prepared meat, while anglo-saxon words refer to the live animal
<ggreer> pig/pork, cow/beef, sheep/mutton
<ggreer> etc
<banisterfiend> ggreer: poultry vs chicken
<shevy> hmm
<shevy> fish
<shevy> chips
<LorentzFactor> hair in german, haar
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<banisterfiend> ggreer: also most of the swear words in english are algo-saxon, as they were base and used by the underclasses, unlike the norman french overlords who never swore ;)
<ggreer> heh
<banisterfiend> fuck is anglo-saxon apparently
<shevy> fowl learned the word Götterdämmerung today
<LorentzFactor> umlauts are nice
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<shevy> yeah but he stripped them away
<LorentzFactor> you don't have to type the extra e
<shevy> it is now "gotterdammerung" for him on github
<LorentzFactor> goutterdaummerung... woo
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<LorentzFactor> er goett
<LorentzFactor> I can't type today
<shevy> he shows no mercy with german umlauts
<seanstickle> Well, it's no Quenya, but it'll have to do.
<shevy> lol
<LorentzFactor> I'll tell you what is strange of english
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<LorentzFactor> the silent letters in such strange ways
<LorentzFactor> all of the L's are silent when following A within a word... =\
<LorentzFactor> falcon, balm, palm, salmon,
<LorentzFactor> etc.
<LorentzFactor> what's even stranger of this
<LorentzFactor> up until a couple hundred years ago falcon was spelled faucon
<LorentzFactor> but they added a silent L... :|
<shevy> that sounds french
<shevy> faucon punch!
<LorentzFactor> that's how iti s pronounced in english hah
<seanstickle> palm has a silent l ?
<shevy> who speaks french... and can say what is "falcon" in french
<seanstickle> How the hell are you pronouncing it?
<shevy> paaaaaaaaaaahm!
<LorentzFactor> fôʹkən
<LorentzFactor> is how it is said
<seanstickle> Not how I say it.
<LorentzFactor> dictionary says wrong :s
<LorentzFactor> do you say the L in salmon?
<LorentzFactor> or Palm?
<seanstickle> Yes...
<shinobi_one> you say the l in palm lol
<shinobi_one> not in salmon
<LorentzFactor> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/palm -> enPR: päm,
<shevy> I think in salmon ... that's in monty python... I watched that a few hundred times... the salmon mousse
<seanstickle> Shockingly, dictionaries are not always reflective of actual usage
<LorentzFactor> it's not sposed to be there..
<LorentzFactor> ... you're missing the point, this is why english is a mess :p
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<seanstickle> LorentzFactor: because people pronounce things differently?
<seanstickle> LorentzFactor: that, sir, is called "language"
<LorentzFactor> uhm... pronounciation differing, ie. accents, yes.. but this is like
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<LorentzFactor> me saying Mountain . "BowTon"
<seanstickle> You can call French a very badly pronounced Latin if you want, but I don't see that it gets you very far
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<LorentzFactor> because "that's how I say it"
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<shevy> well
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<shevy> english is still simpler than german
<LorentzFactor> it's like the english word Colonel that tickles me
<shevy> ruby uses english too!
<LorentzFactor> it comes from the french word for Column -> Coronel
<LorentzFactor> but english added two L's made em both silent
<shevy> imagine if matz would have used only those japanese kanji symbols
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<LorentzFactor> german is very simple?
<shevy> Coronel is french for column?
<LorentzFactor> yeh
<shevy> german is more complicated than english
<shevy> and it has crazy long words
<LorentzFactor> that's where english colonel comes from
<seanstickle> LorentzFactor: actually, it took the spelling from the italian
<seanstickle> colonella
<seanstickle> But retained the middle french pronunciation
<LorentzFactor> yeah, but the word itself came from the french word in pronounciation
<LorentzFactor> yeh
<shevy> "Dampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft"
<LorentzFactor> shevy, those aren't "long" words per se.
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<LorentzFactor> they're just lacking spaces... it gets easy once you're used to it
<seanstickle> shevy: how are you measuring complexity?
<LorentzFactor> shevy write someone a 1,234,567,890 dollar check
<shevy> seanstickle grammar rules, length of words ... Capitalization vs. no capitalization
<LorentzFactor> and see how you feel then lol
<LorentzFactor> the grammar rules of german are super simple :|
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<shevy> the sharp s called ß
<seanstickle> shevy: I would love to see your calculations
<LorentzFactor> All nouns are capital
<shevy> and umlauts!
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<LorentzFactor> shevy, umlauts = [vowel]+e
<seanstickle> English has the esset too, but we stopped using the long-s
<seanstickle> So the esset also went away
<shevy> english used the sharp ß ?
<seanstickle> shevy: sure, you know the long-s right?
<shevy> oh, "esset"... did not know that word
<shevy> yeah
<LorentzFactor> seanstickle, no we had half the eszett
<LorentzFactor> in english
<seanstickle> shevy: asset is just long-s connected to short-s
<seanstickle> *esset
<shevy> hmm
<seanstickle> Very common orthography in the 17-18th century printing
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<LorentzFactor> seanstickle, I've always seen it as a long s connected to a cursive z
<shevy> in old german texts, the s were more looking like f in written text
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<seanstickle> shevy: yeah, that's how the long-s looks in English too
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<LorentzFactor> I have a book
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<shevy> cool
<seanstickle> shevy: makes reading old chemical textbooks fun
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<shevy> haha
<LorentzFactor> from 1763 (cheselden's book of human anatomy"
<seanstickle> Lots of "sucking" of this or that through a tube
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<LorentzFactor> it has them all in it
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<shevy> LorentzFactor I could not tell you what character that is
<shevy> it looks as alien as chinese to me
<LorentzFactor> what character?
<shevy> that B
<LorentzFactor> the long s?
<LorentzFactor> that's a cursive Z
<LorentzFactor> even english learn this
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<shevy> in 50 years, people will be barely able to write with their hands anymore
<seanstickle> shevy: there's a nice example
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<shevy> oh yeah
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<shevy> what is that word... "prefs" ?
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<seanstickle> ligature the first s to the second s and you have an esset
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<seanstickle> shevy: Congress
<shevy> hmm I can see that now
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<LorentzFactor> that's the other half of the eszett hence Es (S) tsett (Z)
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<LorentzFactor> shevy,
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<shevy> hmm
<LorentzFactor> the tsett being a cursive Z in the ß
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<Phelps> what is << called ?
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<Phelps> or whats the action of it called in the context of "user.object << item"
<Phelps> I know its "shift left" but that only makes sense with bit shifting to me
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<seanstickle> Phelps: append
<Phelps> mkay, thanks
<Phelps> wasn't sure and it came up in conversation
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<otters> shovel operator
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<Spooner> Not the "two invisible pacmen with visible teeth" operator?
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<banisterfiend> Spooner: what games do u hae in mind for evolution theme
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<RubyPanther> I thought it was the slap-chop-operator
<oddmunds> she had some reason, though
<oddmunds> i didn't catch it on the bus
<oddmunds> but it was something with her something
<oddmunds> her flatmate or something
<oddmunds> i don't knwo
<oddmunds> i was up for makeouts and sexyhugs
<oddmunds> great
<oddmunds> wrong channel
<oddmunds> sorry
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<fowl> oddmunds: sorry we're missing out :(
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<oddmunds> yeah, this was supposed to go to #penthouse_letters
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<Jerbot> Is there a ruby lance chan?
<seanstickle> For sparring like knights of old?
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<seanstickle> I think that's why we have this channel
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<reactormonk> ruby lance?
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<seanstickle> reactormonk: for jousting!
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<ndboost> hey uh, can someone compare capybara to rspec?
<ndboost> are they both TDD?
<ndboost> i want to get into a TDD workflow
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<fowl> if by TDD you mean Totally Dynamic, Dude! then yes!
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<RubyPanther> Totally Driven Development (dude)
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<RubyPanther> I need some Ruby lancing icons, one with a jousting competition, and another, lancing a ruby with a scalpel
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<DrunkDave> My PC got shut down before I had a chance to look into any possible responses....
<DrunkDave> I had just asked if there was a rubylance?
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<RubyPanther> I don't have a Ruby lance this the closet I can get right now http://stuff.rubypanther.com/images/jedi.png
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<Banistergalaxy> Rubypanther do you like nicki minaj?
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<DrunkDave> RubyPanther: I meant on Freenode, dude. lol
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<RubyPanther> a link is the best you're going to do, I can't run a lance right through your IRC client... you don't have the right plugin
<DrunkDave> I see....
<DrunkDave> How about a sword?
<RubyPanther> Did you install the plugin?
<DrunkDave> No, man. Not yet. I'm getting around to it.
<RubyPanther> Then no.
<DrunkDave> Yeah, I meant a freelancer hangout, though. hehe
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<RubyPanther> There was once, but it so totally redundant that it shriveled up and died.
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<DrunkDave> Oh....
<DrunkDave> It had ED.
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<DrunkDave> Hey what version of ror do you recommend, man?
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<DrunkDave> 1.8.7 p370 or 1.9.3 p194?
<DrunkDave> I'm just going to go with 1.8.7 b/c cop killers would.
<DrunkDave> OH man shit look at me in the wrong channel
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<RubyPanther> "Ruby 2 is coming and 1.8 has no future"
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<jtbandes> hi, is there a way, using Net::HTTP with SSL, to get the address it connected to? with a socket you can just use addr & peeraddr
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<Dreamer3> hmm
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<banisterfiend> Paradox: you've been partying hard on friday night?
<fowl> hawt
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<Paradox> yah
<Paradox> bar crawl
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<shevy> lol Hanmac
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<Paradox> no, he ran out of lemons one week, then shot up in a theater
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<atmosx> hello
<atmosx> http://codepad.org/wUyL9tPE <-- I get this on FreeBSD rvm gem update
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<atmosx> is this a readline related?
<shevy> this is a weird error
<shevy> it seems more encoding related than readline related to me
<atmosx> hmm
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<shevy> how did you get this error? and what is your $LANG value
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<burgestrand> atmosx: looks like rdoc is trying to generate docs from xml files to me
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: what do u think of this commit http://git.io/_xE6jw
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: looks like you really dig poetry, it’s not the first one :)
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<atmosx> shevy: gem update
<shevy> hah I never did gem update so far
<atmosx> $LANG nothing
<banisterfiend> 34d
<banisterfiend> 3rd
<atmosx> oh wait
<atmosx> that's why export LANG="el_GR.ISO8859-7"
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<shevy> oh yes
<shevy> the evil greek language
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<cicatristeza> hello, jekyll suddenly broke i can nolonger run it. this is what i get: https://gist.github.com/3464121 can anyone help me?
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<Hanmac> cicatristeza .. did you try gem update?
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<cicatristeza> hanmac: you mean gem update ruby yes?
<cicatristeza> sorry i mean gem update jekyll yes?
<atmosx> yes
<cicatristeza> ok, doing now
<Hanmac> hm you could try to update webrick too (of possible)
<Hanmac> if
<cicatristeza> just tried, same result
<cicatristeza> is webrick a gem?
<burgestrand> 0.11.2 is the newest jekyll
<cicatristeza> burgestrand: i have the latest jekyll
<burgestrand> yes, I just said that
<cicatristeza> also, how do i update webrick?
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<burgestrand> cicatristeza: what does your _config.yml look like?
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<cicatristeza> burgestrand: https://gist.github.com/3464201
<burgestrand> cicatristeza: server_port: 9000, not [9000]
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<burgestrand> auto: true, or auto: false, not [boolean]
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<Hanmac> PS: webrick is installable as gem too
<burgestrand> cicatristeza: but server_port is your main issue
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<burgestrand> banisterfiend: soon birds will eat us all
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<banisterfiend> burgestrand: hehehee im spending the last while watching birds catching fish vids
<banisterfiend> it's relaxing
<atmosx> can I install all gems at once?
<burgestrand> atmosx: all gems in the world on your computer at the same time sounds like a waste
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<atmosx> burgestrand: I think I've broken some deps
<Hanmac> atmosx you could install manygems you want
<atmosx> and I don't have too many
<atmosx> k
<burgestrand> atmosx: you could to "gem pristine --all"
<burgestrand> Not sure if that reinstalls dependencies though
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<burgestrand> Naw, just gem install those things
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<atmosx> this must be a problem specific to this gem
<atmosx> burgestrand: what gem pristine -all will do?
<shevy> atmosx this is why I keep a local backup of all .gem files I use
<burgestrand> atmosx: The pristine command compares the installed gems with the contents of the cached gem and restores any files that don't match the cached gem's copy. If you have made modifications to your installed gems, the pristine command will revert them.
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<burgestrand> I got that from "gem help pristine" by the way.
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<atmosx> burgestrand: ah good to know
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<atmosx> I'm running it
<atmosx> anyway
<burgestrand> :)
<atmosx> I won't code anything in the server yet, I'll figure it out what's happening later on
<atmosx> gonna eat to 'taverna' as long as they still exist
<atmosx> better use it
<atmosx> later all
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> as long as they still exist :D
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<atmosx> :-P
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<andy7534211> I'm trying to use method_missing() but i'm getting a bunch of errors and I don't know why.. http://vpaste.net/Ud4hN
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<andy7534211> it works fine in ruby 18, but not ruby 19..
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<burgestrand> andy7534211: that is some seriously crazy code, what are you *doing*?
<andy7534211> it was part of a compiler i wrote in ruby a while ago, which i'm not porting to ruby 1.9
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<Mon_Ouie> You should expect bad things to happen when you define a naive catch-all method_missing, especially a global one
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<Mon_Ouie> It means all objects have inconsistent behavior, and methods that rely on checking if a method is available, etc. all break
<Hanmac> ... but normaly method checking should go with respond_to? ... but it seems that some core methods does it a bit different
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<shevy> method_missing on kernel is a huge thing to try
<andy7534211> ok, i'm just going to remove it.. it was just a fun hack at one point to do something like this: http://vpaste.net/O5NTg
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<cicatristeza> burgestrand: you still here? yes indeed, the server port is my problem. i fixed the errors in my config.yml. can you help
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<cicatristeza> to eevryone: when i run jekyll i get "[2012-08-25 15:08:16] WARN TCPServer Error: Address already in use - bind(2)" what do i do?
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<xyon> good morning everyone...
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<xyon> is it possible to use passenger/rack with just regular ruby scripts?
<xyon> (instead of jumping straight to rails or sinatra)
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<Hanmac> why not?
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<xyon> I'd like to get more familiar with ruby first, with the intent of moving onto rails/sinatra in the future...
<shevy> xyon I still use ruby-cgi
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<xyon> thanks shevy... that was going to be my next choice if it wasn't trivial for passenger to run normanl ruby scripts...
<xyon> normal*
<Hanmac> is someone else interested in 3D programming with ruby?
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<Hanmac> shevy what is better in ruby? "materialname" or "material_name"?
<shevy> I'd prefer the 2nd
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<shevy> Hanmac, I am more interested in 2D programming... I wanna recreate (and then perhaps improve) on some old computer games
<Hanmac> 3d is cool too
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<xyon> what about 2D games in 3D, explosions and things like that get depth, even though it may be a side-scroller...
<Hanmac> xyon yeah that is an option too (because i bind an 3d lib to ruby)
<xyon> Hanmac: sounds quite interesting...
<xyon> is it based on a particular 3d engine?
<shevy> :)
<shevy> Hanmac don't forget to provide working examples
<shevy> I find it easiest to learn from examples that work
<Hanmac> xyon: its ogre3d
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<atmosx> hello
<atmosx> I need help with some SQLite3 sourcery
<atmosx> anyone who messed with this little bastard alive? :-P
<seanstickle> It's easier if you explain the problem, rather than write a plaintive prolegomena.
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<atmosx> prolegomena
<atmosx> awesome shit
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<atmosx> https://gist.github.com/3466568 … index_id is always an nil array like "[]" while it should have a value (an integer)
<atmosx> it's like if the 'select' is execute before the begin/end
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<kiyoura> atmosx place that code into ensure ?
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<atmosx> why do that?
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<kiyoura> if that is the case, then the begin code will be guaranteed to run first
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<atmosx> the insert statment is being executed, I can see it from the sqlite3 cli
<kiyoura> ah
<atmosx> nah it runs
<atmosx> but … I don't understand what happens exactly, it's like if it doesn't but it does
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<atmosx> sqlite> SELECT id FROM MRindex WHERE table_id="fasck"; #=> 6
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<kiyoura> hm
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<atmosx> I'll try to retrieve it later on...
<Bidness> I have a pretty basic Regexp question, any Regexp experts in here?
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<kiyoura> Bidness, yes ask your question
<atmosx> Bidness: prolegomena
<atmosx> lol
<kiyoura> atmosx, you could try inspecting index_id inside the begin block
<atmosx> kiyoura: like puts index_id.inspect ?
<Bidness> So, I want to do some_string = "expression"; exp = Regexp.new(some_string), but any time I include (), |, +, ?, etc, it doesn't work as expected
<kiyoura> yes, then you could determine whether its a semantic problem or Sqlite
<Bidness> but if I pass the Regexp.new a /expression/ it works fine
<atmosx> okay
<kiyoura> Bidness, why not use // syntax and wrap your strings in #{}
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<atmosx> the code is wrong
<atmosx> hah the variable names...
<kiyoura> atmosx, haha told you :p
<Bidness> so some_string = "expression"; exp = Regexp.new(/#{some_string}/) is what you're saying?
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<atmosx> shit
<atmosx> I even posted on ruby-ml
<Spooner> bidness: some_string = "expression"; exp = /#{some_string}/
* atmosx <-- dickhead
<Bidness> ah ok. Thanks a bunch you guys
<Spooner> Though perhaps giving us the expression and why it doesn't work might make it easier. Not sure why you are struggling.
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<im0b> hi guys
<im0b> any one feels like giving rails info, the #rails channel is dead
<atmosx> best way to load file.rb in local dir is: require './file' right?
<atmosx> it's not elegant though, sucks
<Spooner> im0b : If we knew Rails, we'd be in #rails. Try #rubyonrails though
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<im0b> thanks Spooner
<Spooner> atmosx : require_relative "file" # is better
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<kiyoura> interesting
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<kiyoura> Spooner, someone proposed: require File.expand_path('relative/path', File.dirname(FILE))
<kiyoura> would you still consider require_relative a better option?
<Spooner> Well, require_relative is a bit more terse, but requires Ruby 1.9
<kiyoura> ah, i was wondering. ive not heard of require_relative
<Spooner> kiyoura : Your expand_path solution is better if you have to support 1.8 and 1.9 though (though you can use the require_relative gem to give require_relative to 1.8).
<kiyoura> Spooner, i think it's general best to 'write for 1.8' but be weary of 1.9
<kiyoura> generally*
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<atmosx> flatten! changes permanently the state of an object?
<Spooner> kiyoura Yeah, generally. Depends what you are writing of course.
<fowl> you're keeping our people back
<kiyoura> atmosx, it is a mutator, yes
<atmosx> shit
<kiyoura> as denoted by the '!'
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<Bidness> Spooner: I was jus doing something like /col(o|ou)r/ for playing purposes, not doing anything complex in terms of the expression.
<atmosx> double_shit
<atmosx> ah didn't '!' meant mutator
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<atmosx> how can I get 9 (integer) from an array like: [['9']] ?
<Spooner> Bidness : for that, you want /col(?:o|ou)r/ (so that the o/ou doesn't get captured). Just a little trick.
<atmosx> using flatten I get a string which cannot me converted (for some reason)
<kiyoura> atmosx, flatten the first index?
<kiyoura> array[0].flatten!
<fowl> >> [['9']].flatten.first.to_i
<al2o3cr> (Fixnum) 9
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<Bidness> Thanks Spooner! Still relatively new to the regular expression game :P
<atmosx> kiyoura: gives null
<kiyoura> what does fowl's option give you?
<atmosx> fowl's solution works
<atmosx> thanks fowl thanks kiyoura
<Spooner> atmosx : Strictly it doesn't mean mutator (for example, #delete is a mutator). In this case, #flatten! does mean it mutates compared to non-mutating #flatten
<kiyoura> atmosx, yes '!' is merely a convention to a programmers use
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<kiyoura> it doesn't 'strictly' mean as such
<atmosx> works!
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<Spooner> bidness Still not sure why you were having problems.
<Spooner> >> s = "col(?:o|ou)r"; [/#{s}/, /#{s}/ == Regexp.new(s)]
<al2o3cr> (Array) [/col(?:o|ou)r/, true]
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<Bidness> Spooner: I must've been doing something syntactically wrong that was messing it up in my test string, because it's working like how I thought it should now :\
<Spooner> Oh, OK.
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<kiyoura> fowl, btw for some reason i'd think you'd do [['9']].first.flatten.to_i ; i've been writing too much jquery :p
<kiyoura> but looking at that now i see that's silly
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<Bidness> Spooner, how do you specify within the regex that the string should be case insensitive?
<kiyoura> reg = /b(a|c)/i
<Spooner> Bidness : You can use //i
<Bidness> ok, thanks!
<Spooner> Bidness : Play here => http://rubular.com
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<davidcelis> Bidness, Spooner /colou?r/
<Spooner> davidcelis : Yes, good point, but I don't think that was a real example :)
<davidcelis> jussayin bro
<Bidness> lol, yeah that was just an example for example's sake
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<shevy2> dumdedum
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<shevy> so where is the fun these days
<shevy> "matz authored 3 days ago"
<shevy> whaaaa
<shevy> no mruby github activity
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<Paradox> god created an idiot for practice
<Paradox> then he created a school board
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<shevy> god wrote the world in ruby
<kiyoura> and said it was good :-)
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<seanstickle> So the Higgs boson is method_missing?
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<fowl> show-source
<Paradox> no method found
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<kiyoura> codepad > pastebin.com
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<shevy> pastie.org > codepad
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<Hanmac> shevy gist is cool too
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<shevy> I like pastie because of the default colours for ruby
<shevy> pastebin has awful colours
<kiyoura> i like codepad because when i want to show examples [although in this case we have the bot] i can run it on codepad
<kiyoura> pastebin has awful everything..
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<shevy> I typically run ruby code in irb, then copy/paste the result to irc
<fowl> >> 'awful everything'.upcase+'!!!'
<al2o3cr> (String) "AWFUL EVERYTHING!!!"
<Mon_Ouie> Now that we have a bot here it's easier to do that
<shevy> Hanmac, can I use your ruby-ogre stuff to make a fullscreen game in ruby? something simple, just a few simple widgets
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<Hanmac> shevy: like ogre, ruby-ogre support fullscene too ... for widgets you need yetanother binding (i have one for cegui too)
<shevy> for cegui?
<Hanmac> yeah that ... i doing a binding for that too
<Hanmac> (the dev for that is currently sleeping)
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<Hanmac> shevy so the idea is : install ogre, install cegui and build it against ogre, install ruby-ogre and install ruby-cegui ... then you could use ogre & cegui from ruby
<shevy> yeah one thing at a time
<matti> shevy: ;]
<shevy> I dont have ogre installed right now for instance
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<RubyPanther> I like pastie because I pine for the memory of the poor dead bot.
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<kiyoura> pastie is ok
<RubyPanther> I can't even remember what color hair it had
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<Paradox> i prefer jist
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<shevy> anyone of you can compare sublime to textmate2?
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<shevy> Hanmac, wish me luck
<shevy> trying to compile ogre3d soon
<shevy> cegui worked it seems
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<seanstickle> Compilation requires luck now?
<seanstickle> Man, programming is harder every day
<Hanmac> shevy: cegui need to be compiled after ogre to detect ogre ...
<shevy> wah
<shevy> well
<shevy> seanstickle never heard of heisen bugs that show up only after you recompile something? :-)
<seanstickle> Nah. I make sure to collapse all my waveforms first.
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<shevy> Hanmac, ogre version 1.8.0 is what you are using?
<shevy> got also 1.7.4 hmm
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<Hanmac> shevy i have ogre-1.8 as package
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<shevy> what is nicer
<shevy> array = %w( a b c d e f )
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<shevy> array[3,0] = 'g'
<shevy> array # => ["a", "b", "c", "g", "d", "e", "f"]
<shevy> versus
<shevy> array = %w( a b c d e f )
<shevy> array.insert 3,'g'
<shevy> array # => ["a", "b", "c", "g", "d", "e", "f"]
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<kiyoura> im quite sure they're aliased
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<shevy> hehehe
<shevy> in the epic .collect vs .map war, I always use .map
<shevy> here I somehow prefer []
<kiyoura> i prefer .map, more functional-like :-)
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<maletor> What would be indicitive of memory usage always going up and never going down? A memory leak right? That's what I thought, but inspecting ObjectSpace shows that there are no 'run-away' objects. Is this a C-level leak?
<Spooner> maletor : I don't think Ruby ever frees system memory, even when it needs less. It just allocates another block of memory if it needs more.
<Spooner> I am not sure I'm right about that though. I'm sure someone can clarify.
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<melfar> maletor, a growing array with a global visibility won't technically be a leak, but since it's not deallocated until the process has finished running, it will appear as a leak
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<shevy> maletor I guess there are many possibilities
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<fowl> ruby is like pacman and the dots are your memory
<shevy> hehe
<fowl> shevy: keineSchweine, good name or not?
<ggreer> what's the ruby equivalent of dowser?
<Spooner> maletor : Also, it looks like you are only showing objects where there are > 1000 of them. If you have an object that is 10MB in size and you add one a second, then it will run out of memory quickly, before there are 1000 of them. Just too many things could be causing your problem...I've had the same problem...
<maletor> there are tons i guess. a CONSTANT that is appennded to. a globally's visable array
<ggreer> http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/2008/06/11/tracking-memory-leaks-with-dowser?blog=2 <-- that's how I find leaks in python, but my ruby-fu is weak
<ggreer> so I don't know how to do the same thing in ruby
<shevy> fowl hmm it means "no pigs" ... it's a bit non-sensical, or rather, it does not really express much. my favourite is still "Götterdämmerung" though, it's really an epic word, much better than "twilight"
<maletor> the state of ruby memory profiling tools seems pretty weak to me atm
<shevy> twilight of the gods... dawn of the gods... but still cooler hehe
<grizlo42> maletor: tell me about it.
<shevy> let's accept that ruby loves to eat memory
<maletor> accepted
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<maletor> and i'm fine with that so long as it deallocates it
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<maletor> Spooner: so you think it's best to turn that ObjectSpace back on and watch for smaller counts of objects that do not get swept up?
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<Spooner> maletor : No idea. It depends what objects you are using. The likelihood is that only objects where you have a lot of them are causing problems; I was just pointing out one of many ways that that isn't a clear way to profile memory usage.
<Spooner> maletor : Another would be an array that adds 10000 new fixnums per second. Fixnums aren't seen by objectspace, but they still use up memory. The whole structure only shows as a single array in your count.
<Spooner> Your methodology is sound. It doesn't catch everything though.
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<Spooner> Shame we don't have something like dowser though. I suspect we can do everything it does in Ruby, but there just isn't a gem that does it all for you though :)
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<Spooner> maletor : Have you tried attaching to your process with something like pry-em (or pry-remote)? Debugging in production (at least, on Heroku) does seem a poor choice - presumably it bloats on your local machine too?
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* Spooner shrugs.
<fowl> you cant shrug after a tirade like that
<RubyPanther> Ruby 2 already supports COW
<maletor> Hell ya it slows every request.
<maletor> I have no choice though, because I basically cannot reproduce on staging or locally and it's only a half second.
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<maletor> At this point, I think I just need to fucking hit everything in my routes and bisect the issue via some code path.
<maletor> That will take a week because my routes file is 1k loc
<maletor> s/fucking/f**king
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<RubyPanther> I poke in ObjectSpace and focus more on objects than worrying about actual memory. But I also don't create giant arrays of numbers or symbols.
<maletor> symbol count is 50k
<kiyoura> >.<
<maletor> I can look at lower #s of instantiated objs to see if it's a 10mb large obj
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<Spooner> RubyPanther : The problem is that you don't know if one of the 50 gem dependencies is doing something dumb because it is broken or doing something dumb because you are misusing it.
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<RubyPanther> If you understand your code you can print out some stats from ObjectSpace in 5 or 10 places and find the black hole pretty quick
<Spooner> maletor : I would suggest instead to record all the requests made of your application and replay them locally if you can't create a test to reproduce it.
<Spooner> Randomly poking around on with puts on Heroku doesn't sound productive.
<RubyPanther> Spooner: sure exactly, lots of third party code = assume the dragon already ate your cat
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<maletor> i widdled down the gemfile because that's what you yelled at me last time i was here
<Spooner> Though it is more likely to be your fault unless you are using alpha gems :)
<RubyPanther> In that case I would make a branch and start ripping stuff out. Just rip half the third party stuff out at random and see if it goes away. If not, rip out the other half.
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<Spooner> That is your problem. You are using Rails :D
<maletor> I can't rip of those gems out for a reason --- they are being used.
<maletor> great thanks :)
<maletor> i knew i couldn't come to #ruby without hearing that at least once
<RubyPanther> The thing is, you can't let your dependencies get out of control. Once you've gotten there, you should really audit them anyways. It is like a patch of weeds. Deferring assures it will grow.
<Spooner> IF you are running stuff from github, that is a fishy smell already (compared to using official releases).
<RubyPanther> There are very, very few gems you can't ditch. Very few.
* Spooner has no other comments.
<maletor> Spooner: ok well thanks spooner
<maletor> ya i know it's fishy
<maletor> i've inspected them for the most part though
<maletor> RubyPanther: They were out of control and now they are not.
<Spooner> Yeah, you should be using regexp rather than nokogiri and you can ditch rails with some sql and print statements :P
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<RubyPanther> That is a good example because for example a rails app has no business using nokogiri if you have some scraping that would be done in an external process
<Spooner> It wasn't an intentional example.
<RubyPanther> And you don't add a single gem past "rails" to use AR with rails. :)
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<melfar> maletor, try binary searching a revision which didn't have the leak? assuming you have a test that exhibits the leak and can be run automatically, and that your code is under revision control, and that there was a point in time when it didn't leak ;-)
<maletor> melfar: that's a good point
<RubyPanther> If you have a bunch of gems probably half of them do something absurd like add a whatthewhat to your forms where it only replaces a 2 or 3 line helper
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<davidcelis> RubyPanther: dont h8
<davidcelis> whatthewhats are awesome
<maletor> point taken rubypanther, but i have scrutinized the list and those are things we need
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<maletor> melfar: i only wish it was that easy. this started happening after we deployed something, but the dpeloy was one file, which we subsequently reverted and still no change
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<RubyPanther> I'm not against whatthewhat's, I am just against having a composed mishmash of gems instead of a written application. The ones that are 3 lines and BSD licensed you can paste them into a helper as if from an example as quick as you can add a gem
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<maletor> as it stands now, i have the team upgrading us to 19 next week. it may fix the leak, and it may not
<davidcelis> agreed, those gems irritate me
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<RubyPanther> upgrading to 1.9 should take 1 person between a few minutes (likely) and a few hours. (on the outside)
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<maletor> lol
<maletor> no
<maletor> 50k loc and 3 years on 1.8 does not take a few minutes
<RubyPanther> Even C code, it is generally three passes with sed to correct the three common changed lines
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<RubyPanther> If you have a slow test suite that could add a fixed startup time for sure, but it would still be a tiny project
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<maletor> cov is 80% and that's generous
<maletor> just believe me when i tell you it's gonna take 3 people a week
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<RubyPanther> Well I've never seen it. And while I believe they'll take that long, I don't believe it really takes them that long.
<shevy> hmmm
<shevy> good old 1.8
<shevy> it took me about a year to migrate all my scripts to 1.9 :(
<shevy> 80% of that took Encoding
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<shevy> syntax changes such as the new hash key syntax, no ":" in case menu, the new -> operator, were quite minor compared to Encoding for me
<RubyPanther> You don't have to make changes for the new hash syntax, that is only if you're writing new code that you want to be backwards compatible, same for stabby lambdas
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<RubyPanther> 2.0 the only "fun" I've had so far is that mkmf gives me a Makefile that doesn't allow // comments
<shevy> cool
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<maletor> RubyPanther: that sounds really fun
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<RubyPanther> luckily it is only one find | sed to fix n Ruby .c files though :)
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<maletor> shevy: there is a lot of convolution about moving 18 to 19 encoding. for me i did: https://gist.github.com/3472308 then checked that the encoding of things in the things that are not ascii are indeed utf-8 and if they are not utf-8 delete them. i think there is one more thing to do in terms of changes to reading and writing files though, not sure yet.
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<shevy> I should have said that I don't use utf myself :)
<maletor> what do you use?
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<shevy> ISO-8859-15, for my .rb scripts # Encoding: ASCII-8BIT on the second line, and .force_encoding("ASCII-8BIT") on UTF-8 string objects so far, which all seems to mostly work ok
<maletor> why?
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<shevy> long story
<shevy> the problem in answering the question usually comes down to people who ask them to say "switch to UTF-8". this is not an option
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<maletor> you know, i wasn't gonna say that. i was genuinely interested in a use case for non utf-8
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<Abbas|> guys, i want to save a row in this table http://abbaskhan.eu/s/2012082523571220.jpeg but when i try to do @xyz = UsersNotification.new , i get an error
<Abbas|> error is: Uninitialized constant Users::AccountController::UserNotification
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<grizlo42> erm.... are there any wrappers around pg gem that provide a cleaner ruby API for psql access?
<grizlo42> kinda like plucky for mongo?