apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p327: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-preview2) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<socialcoder> hi All
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<drbrain> hi
<socialcoder> I had a question to ask
<socialcoder> I was studying gets.chomp today.
<socialcoder> name = gets.chomp for user answer
<socialcoder> I want to know if there is any other usage of gets.chomp
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<drbrain> there's two methods there
<drbrain> gets reads up to "\n" from $stdin
<drbrain> chomp removes the "\n"
<drbrain> you can use gets to read to other characters than "\n" and use chomp to remove other characters at the end of the string than "\n"
<drbrain> but gets.chomp is often used to read data
<socialcoder> can you share an example please
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<drbrain> ri Kernel#gets and ri String#chomp have examples
<socialcoder> errr?
<drbrain> socialcoder: do you know `ri`?
<socialcoder> no, I don't
<socialcoder> is that something like raw input (I dont know it yet)
<drbrain> it's a tool that shows you documentation
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<drbrain> the same documentation as ruby-doc.org, but without going to the web
<socialcoder> inside command prompt u mean?
<drbrain> you can type ri Kernel#gets at your shell prompt to see ti
<drbrain> yes
<socialcoder> ah
<socialcoder> i just tried it
<socialcoder> it said nothing known about kernel#gets
<drbrain> ah, you don't have the data installed
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<socialcoder> what dat are you referring to? sorry, newbie questions, because I am newbie
<drbrain> you should be able to find String#chomp easily
<drbrain> socialcoder: don't worry about it, I don't want it to distract you from learning right now
<socialcoder> oh ok...
<socialcoder> I am gonna hit that link now and read up
<socialcoder> I am actually studying from Learn Ruby The Hard Way
<ezkl`> socialcoder: Not a bad book to start with. The primary author isn't very well-liked by quite a few people in the community, despite his early, essential contributions
<socialcoder> you mean Zed Shaw? why
<drbrain> socialcoder: mostly drama that is of no real substance
<drbrain> Zed is a fine but opinionated person
<ezkl`> Yeah. He is a brilliant engineer and a very good dude in general.
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<socialcoder> I see
<socialcoder> I like his way of teaching
<socialcoder> initially it was frustrating
<socialcoder> typing everything
<socialcoder> but I realized
<socialcoder> how fast I was memorizing, understanding, etc
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<ezkl> If I could go back in time and give myself a tip w/r/t learning programming languages, it would have been to read a lot more code than I did.
<socialcoder> read?
<socialcoder> I thought write
<drbrain> reading is harder than writing
<drbrain> but you learn more reading than writing
<cirwin> you need to be able to write code before you can read it effectively
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<ezkl> cirwin: Indeed.
<zzak> cirwin: i disagree
<zzak> i'm comfortable reading through MRI source, and understand what is happening, but don't ask me to write anything in C
<cirwin> zzak: sure, language doesn't matter too much
<cirwin> you know how to program
<drbrain> if you know how to program one language reading another is certainly easier than writing it
<drbrain> but if you're not good at writing one language reading is hard
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<zzak> makes sense
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<drbrain> reading a language with an unfamiliar style is hard too
<ezkl> Building blocks of programming (syntax, grammar) vs high level concepts (well-structured sentences, prose)
<drbrain> I still have trouble reading irb code because it is so different
<zzak> drbrain: which part?
<drbrain> mostly the lexer
<ezkl> drbrain: Wow, yeah.
<drbrain> I haven't read other irb code recently
<zzak> i am having trouble with #inspect
<zzak> which evaluates the statements in context
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<drbrain> zzak: IRB::Inspector#inspect_value?
<zzak> drbrain: IRB::Context#inspect
<drbrain> ugh, tabs
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<drbrain> wow, this code is so old
<zzak> haha yeah, its awesome
<zzak> try figuring out what those constants mean, and how they're used >:D
<drbrain> they're only used there
<drbrain> I'm not sure why they're constants
<drbrain> maybe to save GC time?
<drbrain> maybe way back in the ruby 1.4 days memory was too precious to use literal values
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<drbrain> it looks like it's just to say "last_value doesn't get printed because it's large, @irb and @io use to_s because inspect is ugly, @prompt_mode uses the symbol name so you can put that in your .irbrc"
<drbrain> I'd nodoc it
<zzak> i nodoc'd the constants, you think #inspect too?
<drbrain> I usually do since the describing the implementation often isn't useful
<drbrain> Object#inspect is enough
<zzak> that is fair
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<dyfrgi> Where is the method :<< from "class << self" defined?
<cirwin> dyfrgi: it's not a method, it's syntax
<cirwin> in ruby 1.9 you can do self.singleton_class.class_eval{ }
<dyfrgi> I'm pretty sure << isn't a reserved word.
<cirwin> it's not
<cirwin> but class is
<dyfrgi> And it does weird things with the tokens which follow it.
<cirwin> yup
<cirwin> ruby's syntax is not nice
<cirwin> (from a parseability perspective)
<dyfrgi> That's a pretty awful corner, from a consistency perspective.
<dyfrgi> Oh regular languages.
<cirwin> { is worse :)
<cirwin> foo{ } => anonymous block, foo={ } => hash
<dyfrgi> foo+{ } => ?
<cirwin> hash
<cirwin> everything except just after a method ccall
<dyfrgi> So if foo's method + takes a block, it's never going to happen?
<cirwin> you'd have to do foo.+{}
<cirwin> which takes a block again
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<zzak> drbrain: just nodoc irb inspector?
<drbrain> it seems you can add new types of inspectors (like JSON) to IRB::Inspector
<zzak> true
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<zzak> INSPECTORS.def_inspector([:marshal, :Marshal, :MARSHAL, Marshal]){|v| Marshal.dump(v) }
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<drbrain> ha!
<drbrain> that's perfect example material
<drbrain> it's totally useless
<zzak> it comes with irb
<drbrain> ORLY?
<drbrain> ha!
<zzak> there is a pp inspect, yaml
<zzak> yeah
<drbrain> I saw pp and yaml
<drbrain> didn't notice marshal
<zzak> even false and true inspectors haha
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<dyfrgi> I never expected to have to learn yacc in order to understand the syntax of a language.
<zzak> ok, so parts of this are "useful", ill just nodoc the specifics, like Inspector#inspect_value
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<drbrain> dyfrgi: for ruby, you can't stop at just yacc
<drbrain> there's state between the grammar and the lexer
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<zzak> NoMansLand?
<dyfrgi> drbrain: Oh joy.
<dyfrgi> Well, I found where class << is defined in parse.y anyway. Now to learn enough yacc to trace up a level.
<drbrain> dyfrgi: pro tip: ruby -ye 'class << self; end'
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<dyfrgi> Man. That's totally cheating.
<dyfrgi> Also quite useful, thanks.
<socialcoder> back
<socialcoder> had a power outage
<socialcoder> drbrain, u in?
<drbrain> hi
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<socialcoder> i u pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiolp0pp[[
<socialcoder> ippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppppppppppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii u ipppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiolp0pp[[
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<socialcoder> is
<socialcoder> pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkppppprpprprprpr
<socialcoder> swwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<drbrain> socialcoder: I think your cat is standing on your keyboard
<drbrain> socialcoder: or you fell asleep
<cirwin> maybe something more sinister
<drbrain> dun-dun-DUN
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<socialcoder> omg!
<socialcoder> its my 3 year old
<socialcoder> very very sorry guys
<drbrain> socialcoder: np
<socialcoder> thanks
<socialcoder> I went away for few minutes and he took over my virtual empire
<socialcoder> drbrain, ws open-urihat exactly
<socialcoder> what exactly is open-uri
<drbrain> it allows things like: open("http://example/some/page") do |io| io.read end
<socialcoder> what does it stand for
<socialcoder> what is uri
<socialcoder> I actually read it as urL first time
<drbrain> uri and url are different, url is more specific, but I don't remember exactly how
<drbrain> wikipedia probably knows
<socialcoder> right
<socialcoder> uniform resource identofier
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<zzak> i killed rdoc
<drbrain> zzak: ?
<zzak> if rdoc is on same line as the constant it's fine
<zzak> s/rdoc/nodoc
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<drbrain> ok, I'll fix it
<zzak> stack level too deep :D
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<zzak> drbrain: want me to open a ticket?
<drbrain> sure, why not?
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<zzak> drbrain: what the hay: https://github.com/rdoc/rdoc/issues/159
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<zzak> g'night!
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<jMCg> Hello happy people o/~
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<ezkl> zzak: What platform and version of Ruby?
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<ezkl> nm
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
<judofyr> morning
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<yorickpeterse> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-D7CK7CUAA_vV9.jpg:large heh, Jim looks like a boss with that hat
<yorickpeterse> he looks a bit like Santa turned Ruby developer
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<oddmunds> BBIT
<oddmunds> Pected Journey
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<crazyhorse> is there a nice way of iterating and modifing a hash like [:top_level][*}[:sub_level]
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<crazyhorse> where i don't care what * is
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<crazyhorse> i'm going to be modifying [:sub_level][:sub_property]
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<crazyhorse> at the moment i'm ending up with 4 nested hash loops
<crazyhorse> and it looks ugggggggrrrrryyy
<apeiros_> you rack eregance!
<crazyhorse> haha yep
<yorickpeterse> crazyhorse: eh?
<yorickpeterse> Not sure if I fully understand the question
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<crazyhorse> ok
<crazyhorse> so there's like 40 apps
<crazyhorse> now i just want a function that iteretes over every stage in every stages in every app
<crazyhorse> and it's going to modify it as well
<crazyhorse> apps.*.stages.each do |bla, bla|
<crazyhorse> is kinda what i need to do
<crazyhorse> or more specifically i'm going to go through and for everyone that has got a server string defined, i need to replace that with a corspoding hash
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<crazyhorse> apps.*.stages.*.server = some_function_to_get_the_server_hash(apps.*.stages.*.server)
<crazyhorse> if you get the concept
<crazyhorse> now i can get the code to work with gazillion loops
<crazyhorse> but it loosk really ugly.. and i have to do this lots of times for each configuration
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<yorickpeterse> servers = apps.keys.map { |key| apps[key].stages.keys.map { }
<yorickpeterse> errr fucking enter
<yorickpeterse> servers = apps.keys.map { |key| apps[key].stages.keys.map { |_key| apps[key .stages[_key].server } }
<yorickpeterse> something like that I Suppose
<yorickpeterse> might need a flatten on it
<crazyhorse> yeah let me try it :)
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<crazyhorse> https://gist.github.com/7303eb3bfb842e48458e .. this kinda works
<crazyhorse> i'm not collecting up the servers though
<crazyhorse> i'm replacing that entry
<crazyhorse> with a hash
<crazyhorse> instead of a string
<yorickpeterse> sec
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<crazyhorse> oh yeah
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<crazyhorse> actually
<crazyhorse> might be better to just build
<crazyhorse> config.search_for_each('apps.*.stages.*.server') do |reference|
<whitequark> how not to do metaprogrammin': http://pastie.org/private/oux23q7841cjxuhdbqtnkg
<crazyhorse> or config.search_for_each('apps.*.stages.*.server') do |parent, search_item|
<yorickpeterse> crazyhorse: http://eval.in/4615
<yorickpeterse> that's a very basic example
<crazyhorse> yeah that's nice
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: what the
<crazyhorse> thanks :)
<yorickpeterse> np
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<mfn> I need to match multiple different patterns in a string and replace each with their own replacement. Something like an array of pattern and each with their own replacement to operate on a string. [/pattern1/, /pattern2/] and ['replacement1', 'replacement2']. Should I just concatenate #gsub calls or is there a nicer way?
<mfn> I've seven patterns each with their own replacement
<yorickpeterse> mfn: 'foo 10 20'.gsub(/^(\w+)\s*(\d+)/, '\\2 \\1') # => "10 foo 20"
<yorickpeterse> You can use \\X, where X is a number, for match groups
<yorickpeterse> You can also give them names in either 1.9 or 2.0 (not sure which one)
<judofyr> mfn: are there any capture groups in the patterns
<judofyr> ?
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<mfn> judofyr: no. String may look like "fooo_pattern1_bar_pattern2" and "pattern1" should be replaced with "replacement1" and "pattern2" with "replacement2", etc.
<mfn> (the underscores are just for readability)
<judofyr> mfn: is it a pattern (regexp) or a string?
<mfn> the patterns are all strings
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<andrewvos> I'm writing a gem that has a server written in java that needs to be launched in the background while the ruby gem is doing stuff.... What's a good way of including the java source in the gem and then compiling it?
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<judofyr> mfn: then it's simpler. replace = { "a" => "b", "b" => "a" }; regexp = Regexp.union(replace.keys); str.gsub(regexp) { |m| replace[m] }
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<andrewvos> Shit I have to interview someone... Nobody answer the question till I'm back :)
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<tockitj_> what are common topics you use on ruby interview ?
<mfn> judofyr: Holy! Took me a while to understand how it works. Very nice, learned something. Thank you!
<judofyr> mfn: Regexp.union is very neat :)
<mfn> yeah, and also using a block to gsub and then matching the original string . That's why you asked whether it's a regexp, right? Because it wouldn't work that way of the key in replace is a Regexp ...
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<judofyr> mfn: correct.
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<injekt> tockitj_: that would be specific to the role they're applying for, and probably less ruby specific than you'd think
<dominikh> injekt couldn't answer a single question and still got a job, so don't worry too much about it
<injekt> haha
<injekt> hey man I co own the company, i would have failed the interview so had to go another route
<dominikh> :D
<apeiros_> tockitj_: I generally ask some basic questions about core/stdlib
<tockitj_> injekt, well role would be ruby developer ofcourse
<tockitj_> apeiros_, can you please give example for these (:
<dominikh> rails? sinatra? backend programming? for NASA (who do use Ruby)?
<injekt> ^
<burgestrand> Was somebody a few months back that collected questions to ask developers during a short phone screening interview.
<burgestrand> andrewvos: was that you?
<injekt> tockitj_: ask them what inject does
<injekt> trollol
<tockitj_> dominikh, yes - all of them i guess, ruby is used for webapp backends right ?
<apeiros_> tockitj_: the easy things like what do you need to do in order to include Enumerable into your class, or how do you get all strings starting with "A" from an array of strings
<burgestrand> tockitj_: something tells me you are the one being given the interview? ;)
<apeiros_> or what libraries out of stdlib have you used so far, what gems, for what purpose
<ddfreyne> I'd rather focus on questions that show a candidate's capability of reasoning about algorithms and problems
<ddfreyne> While using Ruby for that
<burgestrand> I’d like to ask them what they don’t like about the gems they regularly use.
<tockitj_> apeiros_, which questions would not be appropriate for interview in your opinion ?
<burgestrand> (or libraries, or ruby)
<rue|w> injekt: Summary of the SV
<injekt> tockitj_: "what bra size are you?"
<tockitj_> would ruby meta-programing be a good topic ?
<burgestrand> Then again I don’t do that kind of interviews, something that just interests me is all…
<apeiros_> my prefered question was "show a bit of code you wrote and are proud of (any language, not just ruby)"
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<apeiros_> that question was given ahead of time
<injekt> apeiros_: +1
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<ddfreyne> One question that I haven't heard yet, was "here is a piece of code. How would you refactor it?"
<injekt> and a bit of code you are not proud of, and why, and how you would improve it
<apeiros_> ddfreyne: oooh I had that prepared
<injekt> ddfreyne: I use that one
<apeiros_> a super fugly csv parser
<ddfreyne> Actually, not "how would you" but rather "DO refactor it" :)
<tockitj_> apeiros_, basic questions can give understanding if candidate can adopt to given project over time.. but how to 'measure' somebodies expertese with these questions ? offered pay should correlate to interview i think
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<apeiros_> but it was too fucked up, handing it to my coworkers lead to confused looks :D
<ddfreyne> haha
<apeiros_> tockitj_: you don't know the expertise of somebody from an interview
<apeiros_> the open "show code" question gives you the most insight
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<apeiros_> the other questions are merely to figure whether the guy knows anything at all
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<tockitj_> hmmz.. but at some point there is need to agree on paycheck, and estimate future contribution of that developer
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<tockitj_> how to deal with that ?
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<tockitj_> should interview carry more weight than cv - or vice versa ?
<apeiros_> tockitj_: that was not my duty :)
<injekt> lol cv
<injekt> throw it in the god damn trash
<apeiros_> agreed, cv is worthless
<apeiros_> (on its own)
<tockitj_> i'd agree to some point on this
<apeiros_> so many people overestimate their abilities, so many people even flat out lie.
<burgestrand> tockitj_: work with your candidate for a while
<tockitj_> but, cv can be starting point for talk
<kith> so many ppl underestimate their abilities :D
<ddfreyne> How do you negotiate salary?
<apeiros_> yes, cv is what I used to adjust my questions
<apeiros_> if somebody said "ruby skill level guru" I expected him to answer tougher questions
<kith> ddfreyne: you say "MOAR DORRAH"
<ddfreyne> kith: I tend to underestimate them I think. I got through some interviews where I was sure I'd fail
<apeiros_> and tbh, all who put themselves on guru level were barely above modest, if at all…
<tockitj_> well its normal for humans to overestimate selfs.. we *do* tend to thing good about ourselves
<tockitj_> for most tests i personally did - i was sure i'd fail most of them after they were completed
<tockitj_> but was accepted almost always..
<apeiros_> then you underestimated yourself
<apeiros_> overestimation would have been "wow, I was so good, I sure pass" and then you fail.
<tockitj_> well when i came to interview i thought i could pass ofcourse
<tockitj_> ok.. but in ruby terms.. how to get objective with candidate
<apeiros_> look, IMO the two defining aspects of a good coder are passion and intelligence
<apeiros_> get him to show you where his passion is
<injekt> i always have candidates write something relative to the position they're applying for, something small, then you can discuss it (I dont do this during interview time, too much pressure, they can take it away)
<apeiros_> lunch time!
<tockitj_> problem imho is that answer on broad questions are known to most ruby devs who worked on ruby projects for more than a year or two, and more specific stuff heavily depends on previous experience
<injekt> tockitj_: you have to not worry if they dont know something extremely specific, if you don't hire someone based soley on that you're doing it wrong
<ddfreyne> So present them a problem and tell them to implement it in Ruby
<tockitj_> asking lots of basic questions on large number of topics would be best solution ?
<ddfreyne> either before hand (give them a week to finish it) or right at that point
<ddfreyne> No, I wouldn't do basic questions
<injekt> +1 for before hand
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<ddfreyne> Either way, after they finish the implementation, say something like... "now, there's a new requirement. How would you add that?"
<ddfreyne> Something that doesn't trivially fit into an existing solution
<ddfreyne> And therefore requires some refactoring, unless the design was very well thought out before hand maybe
<ddfreyne> (I don't have experience giving interviews. I was always the one taking them, but I do have opinions about what interviews I like and what interviews I don't)
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<tockitj_> i find testing interesting topic to talk about (:
<ddfreyne> Ah yes. When would you use mocks/stubs?
<ddfreyne> ... and when not? and why?
<tockitj_> what test ratio does candidate consider good coverage of existing code.. which testing frameworks he has worked with
<crazyhorse> how do i access all the arguments to a method?
<tockitj_> yes (:
<ddfreyne> crazyhorse: you want a list of arguments?
<crazyhorse> i thought there was something like args.map(&:to_s).join(",")
<crazyhorse> ddfreyne: yeah just for some quick debugging in some recursive stuff
<ddfreyne> crazyhorse: is it a varargs method?
<crazyhorse> nah
<crazyhorse> def method(normal, stuff, goes, here)
<ddfreyne> Hm, I'm not sure whether that is possible
<crazyhorse> lol.. doesn't matter. i'll just copy and paste then
<injekt> crazyhorse: why do you need that?
<crazyhorse> need to see the argument calls in each call
<crazyhorse> doesn't matter.. i'll just copy and paste them
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<injekt> that sentence makes no sense to me but ok :)
<crazyhorse> puts "#{tree}, #{replace_key}, #{replace_value}"
<injekt> for debugging?
<ddfreyne> madveru: u mad bro?
<crazyhorse> I just thought it might be possibel to do ruby-magic-variable.map(&:to_s).join
<injekt> p [tree, replace_key, replace_value]
<injekt> crazyhorse: na
<tockitj_> hmmmz.. yes.. understanding of testing process (along with few broad questions on networknig, linux administration, oop, refactoring, ruby core, and a tiny bit of metaprogramming) could be determinal for estimating 'coder quality'
<crazyhorse> inject.. ah yeah thats nicer
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<ddfreyne> injekt*
<ddfreyne> tockitj_: throw in some questions about distributed programming and scalability as well. even if they don't have any experience, they should be able to come up with something
<injekt> crazyhorse: p is nice for debugging, puts returns nil p(obj) returns obj so you can use it mostly anywhere. p(obj) does puts(obj.inspect); obj (basically)
<ddfreyne> tockitj_: I personally also like to focus on data structures (when to you have arrays, sets, dictionaries, etc)
<crazyhorse> ah right.. yeah
<crazyhorse> yeah that is nice
<tockitj_> hah.. some of the candidates are inevitably going to be better devs than one holding the interview... how to approach & understand those guys (:
<ddfreyne> One thing I found interesting was: what is the difference between a tree set and a hash set? why would you use a tree set if access is not O(1) ? :P
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<judofyr> ddfreyne: wtf is a "tree set" ?
<tockitj_> ddfreyne, i find it easy to get carried away with data structs and algorithms
<injekt> lol
<judofyr> sorry. I meant "what is"
<ddfreyne> that is true :)
<judofyr> (not wtf)
<crazyhorse> tockitj_: 1. always ask for code.. don't interview anyone who doesn't send you code 2. make them sit a test, make sure the test is sensible 3. after they've sat the test and passed then get them into an interview
<ddfreyne> judofyr: a binary search tree, so you can figure out whether something is part of a tree set in O(log n) time
<injekt> a treeset is a slow ass hashset
<ddfreyne> a treeset is ordered though, while a hashset is not
<injekt> ^
<judofyr> ah, a set backed by a binary search tree
<crazyhorse> tockitj_: 4. don't believe anybodies resume.. soo much bullshit, they need to back it up
<judofyr> I've just never heard the term "tree set" before
<ddfreyne> judofyr: I got that from java
<injekt> me too :(
<tockitj_> hah.. and finally when dev passes the tests.. how to figure out if he is sane at all.. i've met some very difficult and smart ppl (:
<ddfreyne> judofyr: say what you want about Java, but I like its collection classes
<injekt> ddfreyne: I do too, but there's wayyy to many to remember
<injekt> too*
<tockitj_> the more i think about this.. the more 'testing' comes up as good subject to talk about
<ddfreyne> too many to remember!!!!
<ddfreyne> injekt: I guess
<injekt> lol
<crazyhorse> 5. be wary of people with lots and lots of short jobs (i.e 1 to 3 months contracts).. they need extra scruitinising . sometimes they use contracts as an excuse as "i got fired" 5. always ring references, and previous work places
<ddfreyne> I prefer it over Ruby's collection classes... which is really limited
<injekt> aye
<ddfreyne> I could relaly use a LinkedList class in ruby sometimes
<tockitj_> crazyhorse, what kind of bullshit are you thinking of in cvs
<crazyhorse> tockitj: "i'm a great ruby programmer but actually i'm a java programmer and i've just done the first 2 chapters of the book"
<tockitj_> i did lots of things in past.. and when i review that list, i figure out how much do we (or I) forget over time
<crazyhorse> tockitj: I know css.. but i can't tell #a { border: 1px solid red; } .b {border: 1px solid green;} si going to generate which image
<ddfreyne> System.out.puts "Hello #{'world'} !"
<crazyhorse> yeah.. i gave my developers called the dumb-ass test.. basically if you fail a single question.. you need to worry
<tockitj_> crazyhorse, ah right.. but list of technologies candidate has used can be revealing in a way
<crazyhorse> tockitj_ i give them a sheet
<crazyhorse> with all of the technologies down the side
<tockitj_> yes i think its sound to make simple questions that just verify basic understanding
<crazyhorse> then they tick None | Parsing | Basic | Intermediate | Advanced | Expert
<tockitj_> ^^ these are pretty valuable i think
<crazyhorse> Passing*
<tockitj_> i think i've seen one of those - few years back xD
<crazyhorse> yeah our list is huge
<crazyhorse> lists about 50 things
<tockitj_> but what is reference there ?
<injekt> as a candidate, that would bore the life out of me
<crazyhorse> then if they tick something.. you can quiz them about it
<tockitj_> ppl who thing good about them selves are going to get higher average (:
<crazyhorse> injekt: if you got bored about filling a 2 minute questionare.. then you'd be too princessy for the job
<ddfreyne> crazyhorse: yeah I did a list like that, but then rating from 0 to 10
<crazyhorse> :D
<ddfreyne> and only... 10 to 15 subjects (not programming languages)
<injekt> crazyhorse: "50 things" -> 2 minutes?
<crazyhorse> really? what did they list?
<crazyhorse> lol yeah good point
<crazyhorse> 5 mins
<crazyhorse> the tests take ages though
<crazyhorse> we don't set time limits.. and they range from anywhere from 2 - 4 hours
<tockitj_> interesting thing about making tests is that you learn a lot along the line.. but its easy to come up with test that you could not have passed yourself before you got into these details - which probably means that test is bad (:
<crazyhorse> yeah.. i think you can split it up
<ddfreyne> crazyhorse: networking, distributed systems, OOP, system administration, that sor tof stuff. Very high-level, but if you have multiple job openings this could be useful
<crazyhorse> i.e. group it into basic (anyone should know), intermediate(most experienced devs would know), advanced (have to look it up)
<crazyhorse> haha
<crazyhorse> ddfreqyne: oh yeah
<crazyhorse> ddfreyne: i want to hire specilist server admins and database guys soon.. so i'm going to think carefully about what to ask
<tockitj_> crazyhorse, how often do you use google while working (:
<crazyhorse> i.e. pop into #postgresql and ask them what to ask :)
<crazyhorse> haha
<crazyhorse> tockitj_: none stop all the time
<tockitj_> its a bit tricky with 'advanced category' as you gave it
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<crazyhorse> tockitj_: yeah also though
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<crazyhorse> from a business perspective
<crazyhorse> it might be good to stick some really hard questions in there
<tockitj_> but what is ie. hard ruby question ?
<crazyhorse> because it gives you some barganning points with wages
<tockitj_> heh
<ddfreyne> :D
<tockitj_> i'd just like to figure out how good are they (:
<ddfreyne> crazyhorse: what kind of hard questions are you thinking about?
<crazyhorse> http://rexaminator.com/ << these bastards
<injekt> that backwards smiley is really quite annoying after a while
<tockitj_> don't want to molest them - have to work with these guys, lol
<crazyhorse> tehy are all knowledge based
<crazyhorse> and they combine 4 questions into one
<judofyr> ddfreyne: now that you mentioned data structures, I was reminded about B-trie. I always wanted to implement that…
<injekt> judofyr: wussat
<crazyhorse> so it's not like solve this hard problem. but know exactly which methods do what
<ddfreyne> judofyr: That's the first time I heard of a B-trie
<injekt> me too
<crazyhorse> which you can do if you have gone through "The Ruby Programming Language" and made flash cards for each
<judofyr> see also: HAT-trie (for in-memory)
<injekt> interesting
<rue|w> I accidentally implemented that
<judofyr> Askitis is awesome
<judofyr> rue|w: implemented what?
<crazyhorse> tockitj_: yeah you don't want your interviews to be soft
<rue|w> B-trie
<crazyhorse> i used to do really soft interviews years ago.. bad idea
<injekt> C-trie too
<tockitj_> it is ?
<crazyhorse> friendly but firm
<injekt> 'Ctrie'
<injekt> eh
<crazyhorse> yeah.. they get too confident
<judofyr> rue|w: with the bucket-splitting too?
<crazyhorse> then start asking for pay rises even after they've accepted the job
<injekt> How about a 'Judy Array'
<crazyhorse> you need a certain amount of trying to keep them humble.. even if they are smart
<crazyhorse> ok.. i need to get back to work :)
<crazyhorse> hehe
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<judofyr> injekt: here's a benchmark between Judy Array and HAT-trie: http://naskitis.com/ (scroll down + click "Benchmarks")
<tockitj_> thats strange, but makes sense in a way
<crazyhorse> i'm looking to hire 20 people soon.. so i've been thinking about our hiring strategys a lot
<injekt> judofyr: wow
<andrewvos> tockitj_: It's not a ruby interview... But I might just do fizzbuzz and another coding excercise which I invent on the spot.
<judofyr> rue|w: this is a B-trie: http://cl.ly/image/2c301R1E0a0z (according to Askitis)
<judofyr> with pure/hybrid buckets
<andrewvos> burgestrand: It was me!
<crazyhorse> andrewvos: roman numerals to number converter is always a good one
<tockitj_> andrewvos, what is fizzbuzz ?
<injekt> oO
<crazyhorse> give them the wikipedia article.. give them the unit tests... get them to write the code
<andrewvos> burgestrand: I don't agree that much with phone interviews... but my client for legal reasons had to go through that process. (client at the time)
<andrewvos> tockitj_: Google it
<injekt> lol bizz buzz
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<andrewvos> crazyhorse: That may be a bit hard though!
<rue|w> judofyr: Yes, except it didn’t work well, so I backed into a burst trie :/
<injekt> shower time, bbiab
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<andrewvos> Right, so back to the "java inside a gem" thing.
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<andrewvos> I don't want to include a jar file in my git repo
<andrewvos> And then have to compile/commit everytime I update my java
<andrewvos> Can I compile java stuff on gem install?
<andrewvos> I suppose I could just get the gem code to do it when it needs to
<andrewvos> Shell out to javac
<andrewvos> rue|w: You are a trie fan
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<rue|w> I was before it became mainstream
<rue|w> andrewvos: Use Maven+
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<crazyhorse> remove first element of an array ... [1,2,3,4,5,6].slice(1..-1)
<crazyhorse> that ok?
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<andrewvos> crazyhorse: #shift
<rue|w> unshift, if you want to remove
<crazyhorse> haha ok ;)
<andrewvos> Oh
<rue|w> Or slice! ?
<crazyhorse> hmm
<crazyhorse> i don't think they do the same thing
<crazyhorse> [1,2,3,4,5,6].slice(1..-1) #=> [2,3,4,5,6]
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<ddfreyne> unshift adds
<ddfreyne> shift removes
<crazyhorse> yeah but shift returns the stuff it removes right?
<crazyhorse> ah yeah
<crazyhorse> i see cool :)
<crazyhorse> is actually what i need
<crazyhorse> now i can make the code neater
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<ddfreyne> Hm, maybe a question on documentation could be interestin for an interview as well
<ddfreyne> e.g. what do you think about documenting, who should do it, would you do it, ...
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<ezkl> ddfreyne: Square's approach is pretty cool - https://github.com/square/fdoc
<ezkl> Builds won't pass until they are adequately documented
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<apeiros_> don't such thresholds usually lead to just garbage docs?
<apeiros_> i.e., tool measures "all documented", but all doc comments are like "blabla documented blabla"
<jds__> I'm reading stdin from another command, using ARGF.each{.....}. If the other command exits (perhaps due to the user hitting Ctrl-C), I get an Errno::EPIPE exception
<jds__> Is there a nice way of dealing with it, or do I just wrap my entire script in begin... rescue Errno::EPIPE and forget about it?
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<injekt> jds__: wrap your operation in the begin;rescue block yeah
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<ddfreyne> ezkl: Nice
<ddfreyne> apeiros_: that is my fear as well
<ezkl> apeiros_: It depends on the size of the project, I suppose. It isn't ideal for, say, a government contract, but… you'd have dedicated documentation team, so depending upon software to do their job job for them would be short-sighted anyway.
<ezkl> At the end of the day, if someone commits "blah blah blah" any accumulated technical debt clearly rests on their shoulders.
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<ezkl> They'd have to consciously make the decision to do a half-assed job.
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<yorickpeterse> or just "Changes"
<yorickpeterse> "fixed bugs" etc
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<injekt> heh
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<ezkl> That said, having worked contracts with far more documentation requirements than application requirements, I also think that documentation means absolutely nothing if management/"stakeholders" are clueless.
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<terite> Heyo
<terite> Why does Time.parse assume local time instead of UTC if no timezone is provided?
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<darix> terite: why not?
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<heftig> ENV["TZ"] = "UTC"
<apeiros_> terite: because that's a sane default?
<apeiros_> (not a good one, but sadly probably closer to the expectation of the majority)
<yorickpeterse> terite: You can call #utc to convert the date to UTC
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<judofyr> yorickpeterse: but that's not going to be correct. Time.parse("12:00").utc is 12:00 in my local time
<terite> Taking ISO8601 as an example, UTC is used unless otherwise specified
<terite> I guess I'm not asking about ruby specifically, but more about why that's what we think of as a sane example
<terite> err, sane default
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<yorickpeterse> judofyr: works for me
<yorickpeterse> Time.parse('12:00').utc # => 2012-12-14 11:00:00 UTC
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: yes, and that is not the same as parsing it in UTC-context
<yorickpeterse> true dat
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<terite> Time.parse('12:00 utc')
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<terite> I'm silly and wrong. "If no UTC relation information is given with a time representation, the time is assumed to be in local time."
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<apeiros_> terite: it's a sane default because joe average coder would be all confused if he did Time.parse("12:00").hour and got != 12 back
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<bentis> Hi all, I'm struggling with viewing my gem's rdoc with "ri" without actually installing it first. From "ri --help" I would have thought that "ri --no-standard-docs -d doc MyClass" would work, but it doesn't.
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<bentis> FWIW: $ which ruby
<bentis> /Users/bentis/.rvm/rubies/ruby-1.9.3-p194/bin/ruby
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<andrewvos> What's a nice way to download a file in ruby?
<andrewvos> It's 518kb
<apeiros_> open-uri
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: system("wget #{file}")
<apeiros_> require 'open-uri'; data = open(uri, &:read)
* yorickpeterse runs
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: if you really have to, at least use system(*)
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<apeiros_> e.g. system('wget', file)
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: wget is not installed everywhere
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: Now I have two problems :|
<andrewvos> Oh and what's the best zip library?
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<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: Net::HTTP?
<ddd> if you're worried about something being there then probably best to implement your own 'wget' using Net::HTTP or something. and as for best, best is subjective. pkzip or 7pk (iirc thats the right name) are considered defactos
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<tockitj_> whats wrong with apeiros_ solution ?
<tockitj_> data = open(uri) { |h| h.read }
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<andrewvos> tockitj_: Nothing. I'm going to do that but I'm already using HTTParty so will go with that.
<andrewvos> Thanks apeiros_, by the way.
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* apeiros_ prefers just `open(uri, &:read)` (as exposed above)
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<jammanbo> Can any Treetop users see what the hell is wrong with this expression? It breaks TT. a:([1-9][0-9,]) { def value; a.delete(',').to_i; end }
* bentis just noticed "-r|--ri". Doh.
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<zzak> bentis: yup!
<zzak> rdoc -r lib/mylib.rb
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<soahccc> How would I accomplish a single file ruby interpreter? I would like to write some server scripts and as the bash syntax is so horrible I would like to use a nicer language. Unfortunately ruby is a major dependency, total uncommon to be installed by default and deperate outdated on Debian :/
<yorickpeterse> http://packages.debian.org/stable/ruby/ruby1.9.1 isn't *that* outdated
<yorickpeterse> though the package name is misleading
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<soahccc> yorickpeterse: woah... that is definitely new in there! There was just 1.8 for ages!
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<yorickpeterse> :)
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<bentis> zzak: ta
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<incog> yes, hello
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<badeball> hi! i have a question regarding file locks and was hoping someone here might be able to help. when using flock without LOCK_NB, making the thread block, will timeout ever occur? or will it just keep trying to lock the file until it manage to do so?
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<badeball> from reading the source code, it does not seem like a timeout will ever occur.
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<joevandyk> is defining a constant in a module/class thread safe?
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<joevandyk> if two threads both try to require a file and load a class at the same time, there's no problems, right?
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<andrewvos> joevandyk: Why would you be trying to require two files at the same time??
<joevandyk> andrewvos: hm, right, if something like rails is started in thread safe mode, it'll require all the files first, before threads are created?
<joevandyk> andrewvos: i'm thinking in cases like autoload
<andrewvos> I'm not sure
<andrewvos> Had no idea that rails had a thread safe mode
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<manveru> joevandyk: autoload is not threadsafe
<manveru> require is a bit better
<yorickpeterse> load() is where it's at these days
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<manveru> where what is at?
<manveru> anyway, i've had bad things happen with autoload, and i heard it'll be deprecated, so stay away from it :)
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<badeball> hi! i have a question regarding file locks and was hoping someone here might be able to help. when using flock without LOCK_NB, making the thread block, will timeout ever occur? or will it just keep trying to lock the file until it manage to do so?
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<manveru> try it
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<badeball> i did try, but it didn't timeout for the ~20 seconds. then i killed it.
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<_sillymarkets> Can somenoe help me out with a Ruby on Rails way for link delay? ... I have a text form, when they push submit, I'd like a delay and then a link to dynamically display at the bottom
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<badeball> _sillymarkets: you might have better luck asking about that in #rubyonrails
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<_sillymarkets> thanks... asking in there as well
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<sent-hil> _sillymarkets: you could easily do that in jquery
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